Recently my group was exploring a labrynth and found a highly magical staff that just screamed to be made of bad vibes and of a demonic entity. They went to the capital city to have the high priest look at it. After confirming it was cursed with the priest and leaving it in his hands, they were asked to come back later that night to have a more private discussion on the matter. They were introduced to a spy of the king who would offer them a quest line to discover more relics like this. But he wanted a test of loyalty as two of members were from a backwoods tribe with no real information on them past the start of the campaign (about a month in game time), and a traveling Paladin bringing the law to where it was needed. They thought my spy character came off as a dick since he was too the point and seemed shady so they did not trust him and backed out on the conversation saying they had other things to deal with.
The main quest line would have had powerful artifacts from evil gods who would try to pass onto the mortal plane after finding a suitable host to wield them becoming an avatar of that god, and the trial was to have them go to a small island off the coast to find out why travelers on the main land and on sea trade routes were disappearing. The island would have been taken over by a cult led by a vampire who worships the Evening Glory who is essentially blood sacrificing the captives for their god or their own ideas on beauty, or turning them into ghouls to increase their domain of influence.
The party instead of going on adventure decided to opt out of the traveling lifestyle and stay in town for three months training with the priest of Khord going through drill exercises, studying arcane and divine scripture in the library, or simply fighting in the arena to improve their combat prowess. Should I follow up on a possible vampire/ghoul army uprising and whacked out cults trying to please their dark gods? Or do I need to change plot and fast?
I think you may need to railroad them into it. You are the DM, and that is the adventure you have prepared. If they want to play Medieval Town Life Simulator then they can do that elsewhere. First plan would be to have them approached by another NPC representing the same group. The High Priest, or some kindly old Wizard advisor to the king. She could apologise to the party about her associate, the spy, who is known around the court for being troublesomely arrogant. She explains a new urgency for this quest and requests the assistance. If the party again refuses she turns super serious and explains this was not a request but a command from the king. She makes a magical symbol and the party is teleported to the royal office in the island in question. The local representative there has instructions to allow the party to return only once such-and-such has been dealt with.
I think you may need to railroad them into it. You are the DM, and that is the adventure you have prepared. If they want to play Medieval Town Life Simulator then they can do that elsewhere.
....
She makes a magical symbol and the party is teleported to the royal office in the island in question. The local representative there has instructions to allow the party to return only once such-and-such has been dealt with.
What?
In any gaming group I've ever been part of - and I both DM and play - any DM that exhibited this kind of " my way or the highway, you don't get to choose! " attitude, and is willing to blatantly act as if the players don't get a say in the plot to the point of magically kidnapping the party, would find themselves with zero players - and it would serve them right.
Any DM that can't or won't roll with the actions of the party - and isn't willing to learn to do that - shouldn't be in that role.
OP,
The way I would handle things is to definitely have there be in world consequences, but I might ramp it up a bit more gradually. The cult was not "nipped in the bud" by the party, so it managed to grow/evolve.
I do like RegentCorreon's suggestion to have representatives of the crown try again - but up the stakes. The crown now has reports of a growing dark power on the island. Spies sent to the island have not returned. The aristocracy and the Royal house are concerned because the cult has started to make inroads on the coastal cities.
Still no action on the party's behalf? What if someone they know ( or family ) is caught up with the cult?
In short, yes, there should be in world consequences - but these can be incremental rather than " you didn't stop the dark gods ... world ends!" Ramp it up relatively slowly.
But there's a real - but small - chance that the party won't get involved, in which case either the cult's evil plans work, or you have to bring in some other NPC force that will thwart the cult's plans.
If this happens, then you may have a problem with your group, quite outside of the plotline or adventure. You may have to talk to your players to find out why they've decided to go on strike. Players can be 'acting out' because they're unhappy about some aspect of the game - or your approach to the game.
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Of course you can kidnap the party from time to time. That is literally what happens in a decent percentage of fantasy adventure. Frodo was forcibly dragged out of his house by a mad-eyed wizard. Most of those heroes aren't just sitting around picking and choosing when they are going to save the world and when they are going to sit it out. If the mode of the game in question was a sandbox with no overarching story arc beyond that which the players create themselves, then sure the party can pick what they want to do from the infinite options. But according to the OP's description of the game story, we are talking about an adventure, a specific story adventure which the DM has worked hard to prepare - and the party are opting out. I assume the players don't know that this is what they are doing (they think they are avoiding this creepy guy's trap), so just explaining out of game that this staff/island/cult/spy situation is the main story quest and shouldn't be ignored might get them back on track without resorting to Deus Ex Wizard. Of course, none of this is gospel - as always everything is dependent on the specifics of the social contract each DM has with their players, but in my opinion that contract should always include respecting the time and effort put in by the DM to prepare an entire universe to facilitate this game, by accepting that sometimes the heroes are just going to be forced into some heroics not of their choosing.
1 - three months of in-game downtime? That's plenty of time for an evil cult to sow some seeds of destruction!
2 - I wouldn't railroad them into the original plan. Rather, I'd have the world organically adjust to what would have happened in three months. And then, I'd find a hook to involve the players. You say your players have previously encountered some relic? Well, then, perhaps the evil cult has learned of this, and sends assassins to ensure their silence so that they're plans can go on under the radar for longer. In hopefully defeating or momentarily repelling them, they discover from one of the corpses some familiar sigil plus specific descriptions about themselves concerning appearance and probable locations and when they normally go to sleep. I'd also plan future encounters with a certain level of difficulty that suggests that the cult has had time to develop effective defenses, recruit and train effectively, etc. In other words, quietly suggesting that maybe it might have been easier if they'd been dealt with earlier.
3 - It also seems that your players may lack a sense of urgency if they're prepared to spend three months of downtime. I'd be highly tempted to put them under a figurative doomsday clock. It doesn't have to be explicit, just the usual 'OMG the end of the world is nigh' type phenomena.
Do not force them into the main quest by just hijacking them. But they need to learn that his is not a videogame where the villain is waiting for you to come out whenever you feel ready. Your world should be a living, evolving thing. The cultists and bad guys are on the move, they scheme, plan and develop. I would say, RP the 3-month downtime over a session, even without re-offering the quest. Just show them how suddenly there are refugees flowing into the city, armed guards are moving out, anthing really to help you make sure the consequences of not stopping the cult are showing. You can as well play this off envy - you can have other NPC adventuring parties show off their wealth and knowledge that they actually gained pursuing your main line...
I have found that greatest help with this is having an "outsider" to play your BBEG. I have a friend who cannot join due to distance (and does not want to play dial-in) - so I asked him to be the villain. After each session, I let him know what has the party done and he lets me know how it affects his organization and what steps he wants to make to further his goals. I can imagine, if given 3 months of free reign without being harassed, my world would be in quite the pickle!
I think I will go with the slow build recommendation due to how the characters stories are so far. Its a campaign with 2 new players and one who has not played in years that evolved off of a one shot. The main reason it is taking 3 months is because one of my players was playing a paladin but did not really stick to their oath of vengeance instead following the party around, they themselves realized this and when they arrived in a fortified capital that mainly worshiped Kord they liked how my war clerics were set up. They had asked if they could switch class since it would make no sense for their character to stay with the group if they were forced to stick with their oath, but did not want to give up their character to make a new one. I agreed to it and the party thought 3 months would be the minimum to thematically change from a paladin to a war cleric and reconnect with the divine (did not want to punish them, being their first character forcing their level 6 person to have a few useless levels outside health and equipment proficiency). The other two wanted to spend time training during this to thematically go for equipment from their craft or try to obtain a feat through studying while the paladin changed class.
I'll check around with some other players I know to see what they think should happen with the relics, but for now a holy war against a vampire army sounds fun, or I could go with a more subtle route of placing vampires in throughout the country hiding in towns setting up a network of political manipulation. The way my deities are set up to is some of them have alliances with each other so I'm fairly certain I could fit in some Vecna/Nerull action to go in with the Evening Glory too if I feel I need to ramp up a dark invasion.
As for your idea Chmur that sounds like a fun idea, I already do have a few npc teams set up and one of them was severely beaten by my team with a trap that was set up for them, so they could get the glory/reward instead for doing the quest (or turn into servants of the cult).
As for your idea Chmur that sounds like a fun idea, I already do have a few npc teams set up and one of them was severely beaten by my team with a trap that was set up for them, so they could get the glory/reward instead for doing the quest (or turn into servants of the cult).
Generally, the social contract and suspension of disbelief dictate that your players should willingly take your plothooks. Therefore, smacking them over their heads with the main plothook repeatedly until they take it is acceptable within that frame. However, it will feel forced even if accepted by players and can create precedent (if only perceived) that they did not get any choice - and they might just accept everything in the future with "Yeah, whatever, not like we have a choice".
Having the world develop around them tackles this from different perspective. Show them what they are missing out on - be it fighting the BBEG for the greater good, uncovering the plot for story's sake or just not getting all those juicy items; it's up to you to gauge what would be the most interesting stimuli for your players.
Try coming at it from another angle. Look for ways to take the story somewhere you may not have previously considered it going before. Things like this can be a blessing in disguise if you are ok stepping out of your comfort zone a little bit.
Its ok to admit, “I wasn’t expecting that. I need a moment to consider the ramifications of this.” Hell, if my DM said that to me, I would be thinking about what the heck we just walked into 😄
We DMs work so hard constructing a narrative for our players that sometimes when the players write a piece of the story for themselves with the choices they make, we see it as a problem and not an opportunity to go in a new direction. Lean into it.
Having the world develop around them tackles this from different perspective. Show them what they are missing out on - be it fighting the BBEG for the greater good, uncovering the plot for story's sake or just not getting all those juicy items; it's up to you to gauge what would be the most interesting stimuli for your players.
Another possible wrinkle - especially if you have NPCs in play that could already fill this roll - is have a rival group perform the task that the party "blew off", and reap all sorts of renown, praise, loot, etc. for succeeding at the task the party wouldn't even try.
"Hey guys, all this could have been yours ... " :D
If this occurs early on in the overarching storyline, the Party could still be recruited to do other tasks in the unfolding events. Want to really rub it in? "Our most trusted operatives <insert rivals' names here> are going on a mission, and we need someone to provide secondary support .... " :)
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It's worth repeating... your players drive the story as the story arc unfolds. In some ways the story is moving at the pace you the DM set. Certain NPCs emerge to advise, reprimand, or confront characters along a timeline of events.
Consider the One Ring and how Gandalf had to gently redirect Bilbo from taking the ring with him, leaving the most important item of the story instead to his nephew Frodo. It stays with Frodo for a little while but in the meantime the ring becomes restless and wants to leave.
You might want to approach this impasse from the POV of the cursed item. What influence does it have on the setting? How many other evil creatures know of existence? Do cultists worship it in some way, the source of its power? Are they given visions of where the item is located? And if so, do they go after it or do they wait? Or none of that at all...
Does a priest of a local temple have access to journals, records, diaries, letters, biographies, anything that might illuminate the origin of this cursed item characters can stumble across and read?
I'm not a fan of shaming characters into action. Perhaps there is another NPC characters have not yet met, a wizard or ranger or sage perhaps who disagrees with the way the mission was handled. He/She has a different approach, one that won't be muddled with politics and glory.
Good luck sorting it out. Let us know how you did it.
Quote from FTT>>I'll check around with some other players I know to see what they think should happen with the relics, but for now a holy war against a vampire army sounds fun, or I could go with a more subtle route of placing vampires in throughout the country hiding in towns setting up a network of political manipulation. The way my deities are set up to is some of them have alliances with each other so I'm fairly certain I could fit in some Vecna/Nerull action to go in with the Evening Glory too if I feel I need to ramp up a dark invasion.
One other thing that you can consider is that if the Vampires are able to begin placing agents within the country at these strategic position they could also uncover the location of where the initial Cursed Magical Staff that the party collected is being stored. It could serve as another method of snapping them out of the reverie of their down-time, and a chance for them to use their newly trained abilities, when some of these agents attempt to steal back the artifact to deliver it back to their dark masters.
This can serve as an indication that the rumours of dark forces on the island they heard of have become more capable, and if they have attacked anyone that the PCs view as friends or companions, that the forces of darkness are growing bolder and no longer fear striking within the city. Then they can determine if they want to reexamine the island mission they previously turned down, or maybe they would rather hunt the agents of the cult that are hiding throughout the land. Or perhaps they want to determine a method of destroying the Cursed Magical Staff so that no one could ever try to acquire it. This gives them a few options for quest directing of their own devices, while still connecting with the story events at large.
If you've prepared an adventure, but the players have valid in-character reasons for not going on the adventure, you should not punish them. You should instead give the reluctant heroes a better reason to go on the quest (preferably carrot, not stick), like:
An NPC pleading with them (or at least explaining to them why the spy was so obnoxious)
A random holy-man (or beggar) saying their destiny lies with the quest
The spy is called away, and his replacement mistakenly thinks the PC's have accepted the quest (maybe he even has the upfront money handy)
Animal messengers give them mission updates (possibly straight from the King)
Subtle events drawing them towards said quest, etc.
Or maybe just re-use the adventure in a different location using a different hook (it's not like the players will know). On the other hand: if you provided the quest hook but haven't actually prepped an adventure... easier to just forego it.
Generally, when players fail to follow quest lines, I don't force them back into them. I just let those quests go unresolved and whatever consequences would have happened happen. Sometimes, that's basically nothing. A villager or two may die, but the party probably won't even notice or care. Other times, kingdoms fall to ruin and armies of evil roam the lands.
In this particular case, introduce something from the quest that you wanted them to do that will spark them into action. Someone earlier suggested sending assassins, which can be excellent but if you want to have real danger some players may die depending on dice. I don't know how your group feels about that; I've killed player characters for botching a string of perception checks and my group was (relatively) cool with it, but I try not to kill players without at least one or two rolls to defend. More subtle, less dangerous means would be making the cult they've ignored become very significant; cultists recruit local townspeople in the night, and the forces of evil are brazen enough to attack the people of the towns and cities where the players are active. If they ignore the hook, amp it up until they have very little choice, but don't outright force them- threaten NPCs they like, destroy places they've been, etc. If that's not enough, they're just not going to follow your plot hooks and you should try some other direction or perhaps abduct them if it seems plausible.
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Recently my group was exploring a labrynth and found a highly magical staff that just screamed to be made of bad vibes and of a demonic entity. They went to the capital city to have the high priest look at it. After confirming it was cursed with the priest and leaving it in his hands, they were asked to come back later that night to have a more private discussion on the matter. They were introduced to a spy of the king who would offer them a quest line to discover more relics like this. But he wanted a test of loyalty as two of members were from a backwoods tribe with no real information on them past the start of the campaign (about a month in game time), and a traveling Paladin bringing the law to where it was needed. They thought my spy character came off as a dick since he was too the point and seemed shady so they did not trust him and backed out on the conversation saying they had other things to deal with.
The main quest line would have had powerful artifacts from evil gods who would try to pass onto the mortal plane after finding a suitable host to wield them becoming an avatar of that god, and the trial was to have them go to a small island off the coast to find out why travelers on the main land and on sea trade routes were disappearing. The island would have been taken over by a cult led by a vampire who worships the Evening Glory who is essentially blood sacrificing the captives for their god or their own ideas on beauty, or turning them into ghouls to increase their domain of influence.
The party instead of going on adventure decided to opt out of the traveling lifestyle and stay in town for three months training with the priest of Khord going through drill exercises, studying arcane and divine scripture in the library, or simply fighting in the arena to improve their combat prowess. Should I follow up on a possible vampire/ghoul army uprising and whacked out cults trying to please their dark gods? Or do I need to change plot and fast?
I think you may need to railroad them into it. You are the DM, and that is the adventure you have prepared. If they want to play Medieval Town Life Simulator then they can do that elsewhere. First plan would be to have them approached by another NPC representing the same group. The High Priest, or some kindly old Wizard advisor to the king. She could apologise to the party about her associate, the spy, who is known around the court for being troublesomely arrogant. She explains a new urgency for this quest and requests the assistance. If the party again refuses she turns super serious and explains this was not a request but a command from the king. She makes a magical symbol and the party is teleported to the royal office in the island in question. The local representative there has instructions to allow the party to return only once such-and-such has been dealt with.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Of course you can kidnap the party from time to time. That is literally what happens in a decent percentage of fantasy adventure. Frodo was forcibly dragged out of his house by a mad-eyed wizard. Most of those heroes aren't just sitting around picking and choosing when they are going to save the world and when they are going to sit it out. If the mode of the game in question was a sandbox with no overarching story arc beyond that which the players create themselves, then sure the party can pick what they want to do from the infinite options. But according to the OP's description of the game story, we are talking about an adventure, a specific story adventure which the DM has worked hard to prepare - and the party are opting out. I assume the players don't know that this is what they are doing (they think they are avoiding this creepy guy's trap), so just explaining out of game that this staff/island/cult/spy situation is the main story quest and shouldn't be ignored might get them back on track without resorting to Deus Ex Wizard. Of course, none of this is gospel - as always everything is dependent on the specifics of the social contract each DM has with their players, but in my opinion that contract should always include respecting the time and effort put in by the DM to prepare an entire universe to facilitate this game, by accepting that sometimes the heroes are just going to be forced into some heroics not of their choosing.
1 - three months of in-game downtime? That's plenty of time for an evil cult to sow some seeds of destruction!
2 - I wouldn't railroad them into the original plan. Rather, I'd have the world organically adjust to what would have happened in three months. And then, I'd find a hook to involve the players. You say your players have previously encountered some relic? Well, then, perhaps the evil cult has learned of this, and sends assassins to ensure their silence so that they're plans can go on under the radar for longer. In hopefully defeating or momentarily repelling them, they discover from one of the corpses some familiar sigil plus specific descriptions about themselves concerning appearance and probable locations and when they normally go to sleep. I'd also plan future encounters with a certain level of difficulty that suggests that the cult has had time to develop effective defenses, recruit and train effectively, etc. In other words, quietly suggesting that maybe it might have been easier if they'd been dealt with earlier.
3 - It also seems that your players may lack a sense of urgency if they're prepared to spend three months of downtime. I'd be highly tempted to put them under a figurative doomsday clock. It doesn't have to be explicit, just the usual 'OMG the end of the world is nigh' type phenomena.
I'd lay seige to the town and smoke them out.
Do not force them into the main quest by just hijacking them. But they need to learn that his is not a videogame where the villain is waiting for you to come out whenever you feel ready. Your world should be a living, evolving thing. The cultists and bad guys are on the move, they scheme, plan and develop. I would say, RP the 3-month downtime over a session, even without re-offering the quest. Just show them how suddenly there are refugees flowing into the city, armed guards are moving out, anthing really to help you make sure the consequences of not stopping the cult are showing. You can as well play this off envy - you can have other NPC adventuring parties show off their wealth and knowledge that they actually gained pursuing your main line...
I have found that greatest help with this is having an "outsider" to play your BBEG. I have a friend who cannot join due to distance (and does not want to play dial-in) - so I asked him to be the villain. After each session, I let him know what has the party done and he lets me know how it affects his organization and what steps he wants to make to further his goals. I can imagine, if given 3 months of free reign without being harassed, my world would be in quite the pickle!
That is a ton of answers overnight!
I think I will go with the slow build recommendation due to how the characters stories are so far. Its a campaign with 2 new players and one who has not played in years that evolved off of a one shot. The main reason it is taking 3 months is because one of my players was playing a paladin but did not really stick to their oath of vengeance instead following the party around, they themselves realized this and when they arrived in a fortified capital that mainly worshiped Kord they liked how my war clerics were set up. They had asked if they could switch class since it would make no sense for their character to stay with the group if they were forced to stick with their oath, but did not want to give up their character to make a new one. I agreed to it and the party thought 3 months would be the minimum to thematically change from a paladin to a war cleric and reconnect with the divine (did not want to punish them, being their first character forcing their level 6 person to have a few useless levels outside health and equipment proficiency). The other two wanted to spend time training during this to thematically go for equipment from their craft or try to obtain a feat through studying while the paladin changed class.
I'll check around with some other players I know to see what they think should happen with the relics, but for now a holy war against a vampire army sounds fun, or I could go with a more subtle route of placing vampires in throughout the country hiding in towns setting up a network of political manipulation. The way my deities are set up to is some of them have alliances with each other so I'm fairly certain I could fit in some Vecna/Nerull action to go in with the Evening Glory too if I feel I need to ramp up a dark invasion.
As for your idea Chmur that sounds like a fun idea, I already do have a few npc teams set up and one of them was severely beaten by my team with a trap that was set up for them, so they could get the glory/reward instead for doing the quest (or turn into servants of the cult).
Try coming at it from another angle. Look for ways to take the story somewhere you may not have previously considered it going before. Things like this can be a blessing in disguise if you are ok stepping out of your comfort zone a little bit.
Its ok to admit, “I wasn’t expecting that. I need a moment to consider the ramifications of this.” Hell, if my DM said that to me, I would be thinking about what the heck we just walked into 😄
We DMs work so hard constructing a narrative for our players that sometimes when the players write a piece of the story for themselves with the choices they make, we see it as a problem and not an opportunity to go in a new direction. Lean into it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
It's worth repeating... your players drive the story as the story arc unfolds. In some ways the story is moving at the pace you the DM set. Certain NPCs emerge to advise, reprimand, or confront characters along a timeline of events.
Consider the One Ring and how Gandalf had to gently redirect Bilbo from taking the ring with him, leaving the most important item of the story instead to his nephew Frodo. It stays with Frodo for a little while but in the meantime the ring becomes restless and wants to leave.
You might want to approach this impasse from the POV of the cursed item. What influence does it have on the setting? How many other evil creatures know of existence? Do cultists worship it in some way, the source of its power? Are they given visions of where the item is located? And if so, do they go after it or do they wait? Or none of that at all...
Does a priest of a local temple have access to journals, records, diaries, letters, biographies, anything that might illuminate the origin of this cursed item characters can stumble across and read?
I'm not a fan of shaming characters into action. Perhaps there is another NPC characters have not yet met, a wizard or ranger or sage perhaps who disagrees with the way the mission was handled. He/She has a different approach, one that won't be muddled with politics and glory.
Good luck sorting it out. Let us know how you did it.
Generally, when players fail to follow quest lines, I don't force them back into them. I just let those quests go unresolved and whatever consequences would have happened happen. Sometimes, that's basically nothing. A villager or two may die, but the party probably won't even notice or care. Other times, kingdoms fall to ruin and armies of evil roam the lands.
In this particular case, introduce something from the quest that you wanted them to do that will spark them into action. Someone earlier suggested sending assassins, which can be excellent but if you want to have real danger some players may die depending on dice. I don't know how your group feels about that; I've killed player characters for botching a string of perception checks and my group was (relatively) cool with it, but I try not to kill players without at least one or two rolls to defend. More subtle, less dangerous means would be making the cult they've ignored become very significant; cultists recruit local townspeople in the night, and the forces of evil are brazen enough to attack the people of the towns and cities where the players are active. If they ignore the hook, amp it up until they have very little choice, but don't outright force them- threaten NPCs they like, destroy places they've been, etc. If that's not enough, they're just not going to follow your plot hooks and you should try some other direction or perhaps abduct them if it seems plausible.