The Druid Lord the PCs need to defeat relies heavily on his allies, his mind controlled animal army. This includes tactics like deflecting damage to them, bolstering their attacks, and calling them from their locations. My players have made a plan to separate him from the majority of his forces. I want to reward their planning, but I don’t want the fight to be too easy, or his abilities too weak.
Long Version:
The PCs current quest is to kill the Druid lord Coreleth. Coreleth resides in a really large ancient and dying tree. The PCs entered a competition to become members of his personal guard, which mostly consists of sentient animals. They, along with 9 animals, were selected.
After the selection, I had anticipated the players would use their meeting with Coreleth as an opportunity to assassinate him. If they did this, he would call upon his beast allies in the fight, using his abilities to deflect damage he is dealt onto them, aid their strikes, and call more of them. The main thing about Coreleth is that he is very physically unimpressive. He has completely neglected his health to pursue perfect mental control over his beast army. As such, a great part of fighting him is dealing with the monsters he keeps calling to fight for him and trying to get in strikes around his deflection abilities. (Which he can only do a limited number of times per round).
Instead of fighting him, the players decided to go through with becoming members of his guard and use their job of guarding him as an opportunity to isolate him.
Becoming a member of his guard involves creating a mental connection with him. For animals, that gives him the ability to see through their eyes, read their minds, and control their actions. Since the players are humans, the connection does not allow him to control them. However, he can still see through their eyes and engage in mental conversation with them. The Paladin and her sentient magic flail are working to block him from reading the minds of the party, but that effort definitely takes a toll.
The players’ plan is as follows:
The pixie rogue will turn invisible and hide elsewhere in the complex, not becoming a member of the guard.
The other PCs will get on guard duty, preferably alone.
The pixie rogue will set the tree on fire to distract his forces.
The pixie rogue will then join the other PCs in Coreleth’s lair at the tree’s top, after disabling the elevator that gives access to the lair.
The PCs will then surprise and kill Coreleth, escaping in the chaos.
I want to reward their planning, but I don’t want my boss fight to be too easy. How should I restrict the allies that Coreleth can call, so that the fight is still reasonable, but so that my PCs actions are rewarded? I was thinking I could have other animals on guard duty with the PCs or allow the flying animals to reach them, but I’m not sure about how much to have the PCs plan impact the difficulty of the encounter.
What advice do you have about this situation in particular or about accommodating PC plans in general?
You mentioned that the druid lord has a fairly large number of sentient animals, so even if the party has managed to fool him, it's not unreasonable that some of the other guards or animals might have their own suspicions. At the same time, setting everything on fire could also trigger a panic among the animals, so maybe that'll just balance itself out.
I guess the question is, how many animals would he normally have with him for a confrontation like this? Would reducing them by a third, or by half, be a significant change in the difficulty?
Catching him totally alone seems unlikely to me, because he's a druid with animals that (I assume) he values as more than mere "hired help." Could Coreleth still have a few trusted, long-term animal companions that he regards as friends, in his lair? Even if most of the animal reinforcements don't/can't arrive to help in the fight, you can still realistically give him a few rather formidable animals (bear, tiger, giant ape, etc.), not because they were specifically there to guard him, but because he likes to have them around. And having a long-term connection to the druid, those animals might have a few new tricks to surprise the party.
Could Coreleth have some kind of last-resort tactic that's harmful to him long-term but makes him more dangerous in the fight? Like a cursed item or calling on a powerful but dangerous fey spirit or so forth. That way the players understand that they successfully outmaneuvered him, but they still have a fight on their hands.
This seems easy. You say Coreleth can read the minds of his followers. Either he reads their minds, and anticipates their plot, or they block him from reading their minds, and he knows they aren't his followers.
But you can still partially reward them. Coreleth can let them think their plan is working, and appear to find himself with them alone, but he has animal companions waiting in hiding. So maybe the players get a round of free hits on Coreleth before the animals come in.
Give him a Mythic Action whereby when reduced to 0 hit points, he turns into a suitable massive creature. No idea what level your party is but I'd guess around 5. Have him Wildshape into a Hydra or something after they easily deal with his first form. Players will assume he could always do this, and therefore they saved themselves the first phase of the fight because he has no animals to help - so they get a reward, and still a good fight.
Alternatively, give him Lair actions whereby the living stronghold comes to his aid and does much of the fight for him.
I guess the question is, how many animals would he normally have with him for a confrontation like this? Would reducing them by a third, or by half, be a significant change in the difficulty?
Typically, he would begin the fight with 2-4 of his personal guard. But each round, his action would be to call an increasing number of his subjects. (I was planning to play it by ear a little bit, adjusting the amount based on the fight's challenge). These subject would include swarms of smaller animals and larger members of the guard. The goal would be for the PCs to kill him and get out before the animals overwhelmed them. The players' plan would significantly hamper his ability to call reinforcements.
Catching him totally alone seems unlikely to me, because he's a druid with animals that (I assume) he values as more than mere "hired help." Could Coreleth still have a few trusted, long-term animal companions that he regards as friends, in his lair? Even if most of the animal reinforcements don't/can't arrive to help in the fight, you can still realistically give him a few rather formidable animals (bear, tiger, giant ape, etc.), not because they were specifically there to guard him, but because he likes to have them around. And having a long-term connection to the druid, those animals might have a few new tricks to surprise the party.
That's a really good idea! Especially considering that Coreleth's control of his army means that he doesn't care for himself very well. These animal friends could be helping him with the basic tasks of living (reminding him to eat, etc.), or providing him with comfort when keeping control of the army is difficult.
Could Coreleth have some kind of last-resort tactic that's harmful to him long-term but makes him more dangerous in the fight? Like a cursed item or calling on a powerful but dangerous fey spirit or so forth. That way the players understand that they successfully outmaneuvered him, but they still have a fight on their hands.
I also like that idea- perhaps he could call on an animal he's never been able to fully control or who can fight him for mental control of the army. Or perhaps he could summon this last resort, and then have to persuade them to help him while the PCs deal with other army members.
This seems easy. You say Coreleth can read the minds of his followers. Either he reads their minds, and anticipates their plot, or they block him from reading their minds, and he knows they aren't his followers.
But you can still partially reward them. Coreleth can let them think their plan is working, and appear to find himself with them alone, but he has animal companions waiting in hiding. So maybe the players get a round of free hits on Coreleth before the animals come in.
Unfortunately, the fact that Coreleth rarely has humanoids in his army prevents that. He believes that being unable to read their minds is a side effect of their humanoid status- similar to how he is unable to control their actions. (I've already established this with my players and I don't want to go back on it).
Give him a Mythic Action whereby when reduced to 0 hit points, he turns into a suitable massive creature. No idea what level your party is but I'd guess around 5. Have him Wildshape into a Hydra or something after they easily deal with his first form. Players will assume he could always do this, and therefore they saved themselves the first phase of the fight because he has no animals to help - so they get a reward, and still a good fight.
Alternatively, give him Lair actions whereby the living stronghold comes to his aid and does much of the fight for him.
Actually, the party is 3 10th level characters. The campaign is druid themed, Coreleth being the first of five druid lords they need to kill, each specializing in a particular aspect of druidhood. There is Coreleth, Lord of Beasts, Anhera, Lord of Change (constant wildshaping), Brelis, Lord of Water and Ice (as a joke I called her the Lord of Dihydrogen Monoxide), Dilario, Lord of Wings, and an unknown 5th lord who controls everything.
Because I'll be exploring other aspects of druidic power later, I think I want to save Wildshape and Plant Control for their lords. (Plant control will be an aspect of Dilario's fight, as he is a green dragon).
Actually, the party is 3 10th level characters. The campaign is druid themed, Coreleth being the first of five druid lords they need to kill, each specializing in a particular aspect of druidhood. There is Coreleth, Lord of Beasts, Anhera, Lord of Change (constant wildshaping), Brelis, Lord of Water and Ice (as a joke I called her the Lord of Dihydrogen Monoxide), Dilario, Lord of Wings, and an unknown 5th lord who controls everything.
Because I'll be exploring other aspects of druidic power later, I think I want to save Wildshape and Plant Control for their lords. (Plant control will be an aspect of Dilario's fight, as he is a green dragon).
So just come up with something alternative that Coreleth can do when he's going to reach 0 hit points, but something that is not affected by the PCs having lured away the animals, or give him a beast-hybrid form, turning into a Loup Garou or something similar.
I feel that because the PCs know that he is strong around beasts, luring away his beasts ought to be rewarded (or feel rewarded). If you don't want to give him additional powers, then the PCs should just get to kill him easily. They made a good plan.
How about let them take him out while he's helpless, but have Dilario show up in dragon form as they stand over the corpse?
His last resort could be a young dragon that he only partly controlled. Each turn you could roll to have the dragon see if it attacks the PCs, the druid, or stays neutral. With the odds on attacking the PCs higher if they attack it.
Thanks for the advice, everyone! I ran the session and it turned out pretty well. I decided to have the fire they set spread much quicker than they had anticipated, since the dying magical tree was extremely good kindling. This put a time constraint on their fight with Coreleth and led to some saves against exhaustion. Most of the army was blocked by the broken elevator, but I had two other guards on duty with them. After they were defeated, I had Coreleth summon a Froghemoth that he struggled to control. Since he couldn’t force the Froghemoth to take damage like he could with the animals of his army, he was killed without too much difficulty. At that point, I had the Frog make a wisdom save to see if he would keep fighting the PCs or exit the burning tree. He decided to leave.
At that point, the fire was pretty serious. The PCs ran out among the limbs of the tree, and I described the raging fire and the animals surging out of the tree’s lower levels and up among the branches toward the PCs, at which point a blue dragon swooped out of the clouds and urged the PCs to get on her back. They obliged and flew away as the tree collapsed.
Thanks for the advice, everyone! I ran the session and it turned out pretty well. I decided to have the fire they set spread much quicker than they had anticipated, since the dying magical tree was extremely good kindling. This put a time constraint on their fight with Coreleth and led to some saves against exhaustion. Most of the army was blocked by the broken elevator, but I had two other guards on duty with them. After they were defeated, I had Coreleth summon a Froghemoth that he struggled to control. Since he couldn’t force the Froghemoth to take damage like he could with the animals of his army, he was killed without too much difficulty. At that point, I had the Frog make a wisdom save to see if he would keep fighting the PCs or exit the burning tree. He decided to leave.
At that point, the fire was pretty serious. The PCs ran out among the limbs of the tree, and I described the raging fire and the animals surging out of the tree’s lower levels and up among the branches toward the PCs, at which point a blue dragon swooped out of the clouds and urged the PCs to get on her back. They obliged and flew away as the tree collapsed.
Every fight is better when a froghemoth is involved.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Short Version:
The Druid Lord the PCs need to defeat relies heavily on his allies, his mind controlled animal army. This includes tactics like deflecting damage to them, bolstering their attacks, and calling them from their locations. My players have made a plan to separate him from the majority of his forces. I want to reward their planning, but I don’t want the fight to be too easy, or his abilities too weak.
Long Version:
The PCs current quest is to kill the Druid lord Coreleth. Coreleth resides in a really large ancient and dying tree. The PCs entered a competition to become members of his personal guard, which mostly consists of sentient animals. They, along with 9 animals, were selected.
After the selection, I had anticipated the players would use their meeting with Coreleth as an opportunity to assassinate him. If they did this, he would call upon his beast allies in the fight, using his abilities to deflect damage he is dealt onto them, aid their strikes, and call more of them. The main thing about Coreleth is that he is very physically unimpressive. He has completely neglected his health to pursue perfect mental control over his beast army. As such, a great part of fighting him is dealing with the monsters he keeps calling to fight for him and trying to get in strikes around his deflection abilities. (Which he can only do a limited number of times per round).
Instead of fighting him, the players decided to go through with becoming members of his guard and use their job of guarding him as an opportunity to isolate him.
Becoming a member of his guard involves creating a mental connection with him. For animals, that gives him the ability to see through their eyes, read their minds, and control their actions. Since the players are humans, the connection does not allow him to control them. However, he can still see through their eyes and engage in mental conversation with them. The Paladin and her sentient magic flail are working to block him from reading the minds of the party, but that effort definitely takes a toll.
The players’ plan is as follows:
I want to reward their planning, but I don’t want my boss fight to be too easy. How should I restrict the allies that Coreleth can call, so that the fight is still reasonable, but so that my PCs actions are rewarded? I was thinking I could have other animals on guard duty with the PCs or allow the flying animals to reach them, but I’m not sure about how much to have the PCs plan impact the difficulty of the encounter.
What advice do you have about this situation in particular or about accommodating PC plans in general?
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
You mentioned that the druid lord has a fairly large number of sentient animals, so even if the party has managed to fool him, it's not unreasonable that some of the other guards or animals might have their own suspicions. At the same time, setting everything on fire could also trigger a panic among the animals, so maybe that'll just balance itself out.
I guess the question is, how many animals would he normally have with him for a confrontation like this? Would reducing them by a third, or by half, be a significant change in the difficulty?
Catching him totally alone seems unlikely to me, because he's a druid with animals that (I assume) he values as more than mere "hired help." Could Coreleth still have a few trusted, long-term animal companions that he regards as friends, in his lair? Even if most of the animal reinforcements don't/can't arrive to help in the fight, you can still realistically give him a few rather formidable animals (bear, tiger, giant ape, etc.), not because they were specifically there to guard him, but because he likes to have them around. And having a long-term connection to the druid, those animals might have a few new tricks to surprise the party.
Could Coreleth have some kind of last-resort tactic that's harmful to him long-term but makes him more dangerous in the fight? Like a cursed item or calling on a powerful but dangerous fey spirit or so forth. That way the players understand that they successfully outmaneuvered him, but they still have a fight on their hands.
Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral
This seems easy. You say Coreleth can read the minds of his followers. Either he reads their minds, and anticipates their plot, or they block him from reading their minds, and he knows they aren't his followers.
But you can still partially reward them. Coreleth can let them think their plan is working, and appear to find himself with them alone, but he has animal companions waiting in hiding. So maybe the players get a round of free hits on Coreleth before the animals come in.
Give him a Mythic Action whereby when reduced to 0 hit points, he turns into a suitable massive creature. No idea what level your party is but I'd guess around 5. Have him Wildshape into a Hydra or something after they easily deal with his first form. Players will assume he could always do this, and therefore they saved themselves the first phase of the fight because he has no animals to help - so they get a reward, and still a good fight.
Alternatively, give him Lair actions whereby the living stronghold comes to his aid and does much of the fight for him.
Typically, he would begin the fight with 2-4 of his personal guard. But each round, his action would be to call an increasing number of his subjects. (I was planning to play it by ear a little bit, adjusting the amount based on the fight's challenge). These subject would include swarms of smaller animals and larger members of the guard. The goal would be for the PCs to kill him and get out before the animals overwhelmed them. The players' plan would significantly hamper his ability to call reinforcements.
That's a really good idea! Especially considering that Coreleth's control of his army means that he doesn't care for himself very well. These animal friends could be helping him with the basic tasks of living (reminding him to eat, etc.), or providing him with comfort when keeping control of the army is difficult.
I also like that idea- perhaps he could call on an animal he's never been able to fully control or who can fight him for mental control of the army. Or perhaps he could summon this last resort, and then have to persuade them to help him while the PCs deal with other army members.
Unfortunately, the fact that Coreleth rarely has humanoids in his army prevents that. He believes that being unable to read their minds is a side effect of their humanoid status- similar to how he is unable to control their actions. (I've already established this with my players and I don't want to go back on it).
Actually, the party is 3 10th level characters. The campaign is druid themed, Coreleth being the first of five druid lords they need to kill, each specializing in a particular aspect of druidhood. There is Coreleth, Lord of Beasts, Anhera, Lord of Change (constant wildshaping), Brelis, Lord of Water and Ice (as a joke I called her the Lord of Dihydrogen Monoxide), Dilario, Lord of Wings, and an unknown 5th lord who controls everything.
Because I'll be exploring other aspects of druidic power later, I think I want to save Wildshape and Plant Control for their lords. (Plant control will be an aspect of Dilario's fight, as he is a green dragon).
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
So just come up with something alternative that Coreleth can do when he's going to reach 0 hit points, but something that is not affected by the PCs having lured away the animals, or give him a beast-hybrid form, turning into a Loup Garou or something similar.
I feel that because the PCs know that he is strong around beasts, luring away his beasts ought to be rewarded (or feel rewarded). If you don't want to give him additional powers, then the PCs should just get to kill him easily. They made a good plan.
How about let them take him out while he's helpless, but have Dilario show up in dragon form as they stand over the corpse?
His last resort could be a young dragon that he only partly controlled. Each turn you could roll to have the dragon see if it attacks the PCs, the druid, or stays neutral. With the odds on attacking the PCs higher if they attack it.
Thanks for the advice, everyone! I ran the session and it turned out pretty well. I decided to have the fire they set spread much quicker than they had anticipated, since the dying magical tree was extremely good kindling. This put a time constraint on their fight with Coreleth and led to some saves against exhaustion. Most of the army was blocked by the broken elevator, but I had two other guards on duty with them. After they were defeated, I had Coreleth summon a Froghemoth that he struggled to control. Since he couldn’t force the Froghemoth to take damage like he could with the animals of his army, he was killed without too much difficulty. At that point, I had the Frog make a wisdom save to see if he would keep fighting the PCs or exit the burning tree. He decided to leave.
At that point, the fire was pretty serious. The PCs ran out among the limbs of the tree, and I described the raging fire and the animals surging out of the tree’s lower levels and up among the branches toward the PCs, at which point a blue dragon swooped out of the clouds and urged the PCs to get on her back. They obliged and flew away as the tree collapsed.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
Every fight is better when a froghemoth is involved.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)