I'm currently DMing a horror campaign with a small party of level 3 adventurers, and they're loving it so far. I have more planned to make things actually scary, but I want to know if it's a good idea.
In this campaign, leveling up would be something you really work towards. In most of my campaigns, leveling up means killing a boss or accomplishing a difficult task, but I'm thinking of making level-ups more downtime based. For example, a Druid might have to spend time studying animals in the wilderness to work towards leveling up, or a Warlock might have to revise their deal with their patron, while the Fighter would need some time to train with a sparring partner. This isn't the main idea I'm worried about, but it's important to keep in mind for the idea I'm actually nervous with.
To make combat more of a nail-biter for everyone, I was thinking of the majority of monsters in the world being rather powerful, or specialized in a specific style of combat. For example, there's a monster called the Thrall in my campaign, which is pretty close to the main city they've been exploring. It has about 110 health, a move speed of 50 feet, and an average damage output of 35 damage per round if all three of its attacks connect, which is likely to happen.
I want the party to be able to win against these strong opponents, but I'm hoping the monster's strength will discourage a head-on approach. I'm hoping to encourage strategy and careful planning to triumph over these foes, but it still feels like things could go very badly if they underestimate their enemy, or if they get caught by surprise.
Are these stronger monsters a good idea, or are these powerful opponents a bit much for a statistically weaker party? I'd love to hear what you have to say about this idea: Any suggestions, tips, or ideas are welcome.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Former Spider Queen of the Spider Guild, and friendly neighborhood scheming creature.
"Made by spiders, for spiders, of spiders."
My pronouns are she/her.
Web Weaver of Everlasting Narrative! (title bestowed by Drummer)
Never underestimate the fear power of a large tribe of kobolds, in their home range, with a plethora of traps and ambush positions. Even the most powerful of warriors loses confidence after killing off thirty or forty of these little buggers, only to learn that was only the first of many waves. Then the party triggers a trap. . . then the pack animals get taken down and dragged off. . . then. . .
Even zero level humans can be terrifying, in overwhelming numbers.
Fairly new DM myself but I’ve taken the high CR monster route. We are playing CoS but meet infrequently so I want less encounters but more dan ones. I have found this can be swingy, either the party roll well and steamroll the combat even if it’s dangerous or the monster is a hit point sponge. For making dangerous combat Id suggest smaller monsters but more of them, or legendary actions. One big scary monster will get one round of attacks then be beat on by the party. When playing Strahd, my party were not happy when he started using legendary actions and suddenly the rogue can’t just disengage and be safe for another whole round.
monsters like shadows can drain ability points which is scary, meanlocks can mess with the party using illusions unfortunately they are a bit pathetic ince combat begins for real.
In terms of are the monsters you’re thinking of too powerful? As DM that’s up to you, if combat is swinging towards a TPK maybe the monster has half it’s normal hit points then the next character to hit gets to be heroic and save the party. You could always downgrade any critical att To normal hits. Although I rarely have to change dice as a competent party can usually do well, paladins can smite etc so they’ll hit hard.
One of the scariest things you can do is leave the players guessing about what the monster can do. Things like legendary actions and simply giving a monster an interesting feat can be all you need.
You can also go for monsters with little damage and hp, but a specific way of killing them. The ones in Vox Machina can only be hurt when they're in light, which is awesome. It turns the encounter from "hopefully they die before we do" to "hopefully we can figure out how to hurt these things before they kill us", and that moves their thoughts from "The DM wouldn't have put this here if we couldn't succeed" to "if we don't figure out how to succeed, we're dead".
There's something so much more unsettling about "your attack did nothing". We had a oneshot against Jackalweres, and when I used greatweapon mater to deal 23 points of damage in one hit, and the DM passed me a note saying "The Jackal doesn't seem injured", that made me immediately feel like my barbarian was entirely exposed, as he had no magical weapons! That's how you give people fear - not with big, dangerous monsters, but with small ones which they can't just attack until they die!
I like Horror genre sessions. I try to mix one in constantly. I also make monsters consistently ore difficult and more of a challenge -- and I almost never use the HPs listed because they are sometimes too low or too high for the encounter itself.
You have a great set up described. I would suggest two or three "puzzle" adventures that feature a lower power, easier to kill monster. They should give the players a chance to learn the kinds of tactics that can defeat the big bad -- just not all the tactics at once, lol, or if you do, then really make that absence of a tactic stand out (there is no direct route to this monster: the only direct route is filled with acid in which swim elemental piranhas).
In between them, you do something where a head on attack is just foolish, and you make them pay a price for it -- maybe a one and done NPC, or they are all nearly shredded and *almost* die (don't let them die, fudge if you need to, we DMs have been doing that for over 40 years). The above description ooa mass of little Foes is good for this -- my campaigns still tell the story of the Paladin Jonathan who died fighting a thousand Kobolds (and was played out in real time).
He won, btw. Just didn't survive his wounds.
Then you throw the Thrall at them.
Horror works best when you have a series of events that heighten the tension, increase the stakes, makes each little step forward seem as if "eyp, we ain't gonna make it outta this one, Bobby". Have an NPC or one of the players say "i have a bad feeling about this"' whenever they want to do a head on, and "I feel really good about this" when they get creative. Clerics are great for that because they hear the words of the Gods. you can do it with a patron, as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
If you can figure out a way for the party to kill it, and you think that they could figure it out and make it work before they die, then sure. If you think they may need more prodding, you may want to include a brief skirmish to give them a general idea how powerful this thing is.
Disclaimer: The author of this post is a somewhat inexperienced DM and has never touched the horror genre before. Follow advice at your own risk.
The issue with going in depth into training is that it's boring. There is a reason why movies use the training montage instead of spending time on it. If you want to do a little bit just to add flavor that is fine. If you go in depth and spend significant game time describing reading books and doing pushups ask yourself is this really the pace, and the tone of horror/high fantasy you were going for? I personally find that this can really bog a game down, especially since you usually have to have each player going into what they do individually. If each of 5 players spends just 5 min, that is 25min of a session, and 20 min of that you have 4/5 players relegated to an spectator rather than a player.
For any game, but horror games especially, if the failure/death isn't on the table, then there aren't really stakes, and player decisions don't really matter. You aren't playing a game, you are just describing how you win, while pretending to play a game, where you are pretending to kill monsters.
Really depends on your group, tbh. Some groups are just keen to charge in with their axes up and hope for the best. Others are planners.
I like hard bosses with high damage output. That way they can lay waste quick before getting knocked down by sheer numbers. But if you're concerned, use your NPC's. Rumours of what it can do, how strong it is. What happened to people who have gone up against it before. If you're worried that they're going to take it too lightly, then it's your job to talk it up via your world.
You could just show what it can do on some NPC as a warning for the players. Mine took the adventure a lot more seriously when they saw a mind flayer grab a guy, do 50-something damage to him and eat his brain in a single round or when they had been defending a wall from a siege for the whole session and then the enemy leader, a warlock, just began walking towards the door while mowing down the guards on the wall from 300 feet away with Eldritch Blasts
I think monsters are more scary and fun to fight when they have high hit points. That way every body playing gets a turn fighting the monster, you don't want to have the barbarian slay the monster in one hit every time or it isn't much fun for the other players waiting for their turn. Also, it makes them scarier because you know you are hitting them with your hardest attacks and they still aren't falling down. Then it is extremely rewarding when you finally vanquish the beast. As long as the battle isn't drawn out so long to where it is boring to the players. The monsters still need to be a threat and make sure the party is feeling their attacks.
Also, if you want to use higher level monsters on a low level party, it may be wise to give the party an asset to help them survive. Our level two party once fought a level four or five giant, and one, but it was a crazy fight. We probably would have lost a lot of our characters if there hadn't been a magical fountain hidden in the cave that restored you to full hit points once per day. There was tons of crazy roleplay, and several of our team dropped to zero hit points several times, but no one died and we killed the giant, so it was a success. Putting a thing like the healing fountain in a combat encounter with a high level monster might be smart that way the party stands a chance. You have to be careful though and not put a healing fountain in every cave, otherwise the battle becomes less dangerous.
I'm currently DMing a horror campaign with a small party of level 3 adventurers, and they're loving it so far. I have more planned to make things actually scary, but I want to know if it's a good idea.
In this campaign, leveling up would be something you really work towards. In most of my campaigns, leveling up means killing a boss or accomplishing a difficult task, but I'm thinking of making level-ups more downtime based. For example, a Druid might have to spend time studying animals in the wilderness to work towards leveling up, or a Warlock might have to revise their deal with their patron, while the Fighter would need some time to train with a sparring partner. This isn't the main idea I'm worried about, but it's important to keep in mind for the idea I'm actually nervous with.
To make combat more of a nail-biter for everyone, I was thinking of the majority of monsters in the world being rather powerful, or specialized in a specific style of combat. For example, there's a monster called the Thrall in my campaign, which is pretty close to the main city they've been exploring. It has about 110 health, a move speed of 50 feet, and an average damage output of 35 damage per round if all three of its attacks connect, which is likely to happen.
I want the party to be able to win against these strong opponents, but I'm hoping the monster's strength will discourage a head-on approach. I'm hoping to encourage strategy and careful planning to triumph over these foes, but it still feels like things could go very badly if they underestimate their enemy, or if they get caught by surprise.
Are these stronger monsters a good idea, or are these powerful opponents a bit much for a statistically weaker party? I'd love to hear what you have to say about this idea: Any suggestions, tips, or ideas are welcome.
Former Spider Queen of the Spider Guild, and friendly neighborhood scheming creature.
"Made by spiders, for spiders, of spiders."
My pronouns are she/her.
Web Weaver of Everlasting Narrative! (title bestowed by Drummer)
Never underestimate the fear power of a large tribe of kobolds, in their home range, with a plethora of traps and ambush positions. Even the most powerful of warriors loses confidence after killing off thirty or forty of these little buggers, only to learn that was only the first of many waves. Then the party triggers a trap. . . then the pack animals get taken down and dragged off. . . then. . .
Even zero level humans can be terrifying, in overwhelming numbers.
Fairly new DM myself but I’ve taken the high CR monster route. We are playing CoS but meet infrequently so I want less encounters but more dan ones. I have found this can be swingy, either the party roll well and steamroll the combat even if it’s dangerous or the monster is a hit point sponge. For making dangerous combat Id suggest smaller monsters but more of them, or legendary actions. One big scary monster will get one round of attacks then be beat on by the party. When playing Strahd, my party were not happy when he started using legendary actions and suddenly the rogue can’t just disengage and be safe for another whole round.
monsters like shadows can drain ability points which is scary, meanlocks can mess with the party using illusions unfortunately they are a bit pathetic ince combat begins for real.
In terms of are the monsters you’re thinking of too powerful? As DM that’s up to you, if combat is swinging towards a TPK maybe the monster has half it’s normal hit points then the next character to hit gets to be heroic and save the party. You could always downgrade any critical att To normal hits. Although I rarely have to change dice as a competent party can usually do well, paladins can smite etc so they’ll hit hard.
One of the scariest things you can do is leave the players guessing about what the monster can do. Things like legendary actions and simply giving a monster an interesting feat can be all you need.
You can also go for monsters with little damage and hp, but a specific way of killing them. The ones in Vox Machina can only be hurt when they're in light, which is awesome. It turns the encounter from "hopefully they die before we do" to "hopefully we can figure out how to hurt these things before they kill us", and that moves their thoughts from "The DM wouldn't have put this here if we couldn't succeed" to "if we don't figure out how to succeed, we're dead".
There's something so much more unsettling about "your attack did nothing". We had a oneshot against Jackalweres, and when I used greatweapon mater to deal 23 points of damage in one hit, and the DM passed me a note saying "The Jackal doesn't seem injured", that made me immediately feel like my barbarian was entirely exposed, as he had no magical weapons! That's how you give people fear - not with big, dangerous monsters, but with small ones which they can't just attack until they die!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Ok, so...
I like Horror genre sessions. I try to mix one in constantly. I also make monsters consistently ore difficult and more of a challenge -- and I almost never use the HPs listed because they are sometimes too low or too high for the encounter itself.
You have a great set up described. I would suggest two or three "puzzle" adventures that feature a lower power, easier to kill monster. They should give the players a chance to learn the kinds of tactics that can defeat the big bad -- just not all the tactics at once, lol, or if you do, then really make that absence of a tactic stand out (there is no direct route to this monster: the only direct route is filled with acid in which swim elemental piranhas).
In between them, you do something where a head on attack is just foolish, and you make them pay a price for it -- maybe a one and done NPC, or they are all nearly shredded and *almost* die (don't let them die, fudge if you need to, we DMs have been doing that for over 40 years). The above description ooa mass of little Foes is good for this -- my campaigns still tell the story of the Paladin Jonathan who died fighting a thousand Kobolds (and was played out in real time).
He won, btw. Just didn't survive his wounds.
Then you throw the Thrall at them.
Horror works best when you have a series of events that heighten the tension, increase the stakes, makes each little step forward seem as if "eyp, we ain't gonna make it outta this one, Bobby". Have an NPC or one of the players say "i have a bad feeling about this"' whenever they want to do a head on, and "I feel really good about this" when they get creative. Clerics are great for that because they hear the words of the Gods. you can do it with a patron, as well.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
If you can figure out a way for the party to kill it, and you think that they could figure it out and make it work before they die, then sure. If you think they may need more prodding, you may want to include a brief skirmish to give them a general idea how powerful this thing is.
Disclaimer: The author of this post is a somewhat inexperienced DM and has never touched the horror genre before. Follow advice at your own risk.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
The issue with going in depth into training is that it's boring. There is a reason why movies use the training montage instead of spending time on it. If you want to do a little bit just to add flavor that is fine. If you go in depth and spend significant game time describing reading books and doing pushups ask yourself is this really the pace, and the tone of horror/high fantasy you were going for?
I personally find that this can really bog a game down, especially since you usually have to have each player going into what they do individually. If each of 5 players spends just 5 min, that is 25min of a session, and 20 min of that you have 4/5 players relegated to an spectator rather than a player.
For any game, but horror games especially, if the failure/death isn't on the table, then there aren't really stakes, and player decisions don't really matter. You aren't playing a game, you are just describing how you win, while pretending to play a game, where you are pretending to kill monsters.
Really depends on your group, tbh. Some groups are just keen to charge in with their axes up and hope for the best. Others are planners.
I like hard bosses with high damage output. That way they can lay waste quick before getting knocked down by sheer numbers. But if you're concerned, use your NPC's. Rumours of what it can do, how strong it is. What happened to people who have gone up against it before. If you're worried that they're going to take it too lightly, then it's your job to talk it up via your world.
For a more horror setting I prefer low level enemies that have numbers. And usually something people can run away from, as they should:p
High level monsters and NPCs require a bit of foreshadowing and plenty of warnings so the players can get ready for the encounter.
You could just show what it can do on some NPC as a warning for the players. Mine took the adventure a lot more seriously when they saw a mind flayer grab a guy, do 50-something damage to him and eat his brain in a single round or when they had been defending a wall from a siege for the whole session and then the enemy leader, a warlock, just began walking towards the door while mowing down the guards on the wall from 300 feet away with Eldritch Blasts
I think monsters are more scary and fun to fight when they have high hit points. That way every body playing gets a turn fighting the monster, you don't want to have the barbarian slay the monster in one hit every time or it isn't much fun for the other players waiting for their turn. Also, it makes them scarier because you know you are hitting them with your hardest attacks and they still aren't falling down. Then it is extremely rewarding when you finally vanquish the beast. As long as the battle isn't drawn out so long to where it is boring to the players. The monsters still need to be a threat and make sure the party is feeling their attacks.
Also, if you want to use higher level monsters on a low level party, it may be wise to give the party an asset to help them survive. Our level two party once fought a level four or five giant, and one, but it was a crazy fight. We probably would have lost a lot of our characters if there hadn't been a magical fountain hidden in the cave that restored you to full hit points once per day. There was tons of crazy roleplay, and several of our team dropped to zero hit points several times, but no one died and we killed the giant, so it was a success. Putting a thing like the healing fountain in a combat encounter with a high level monster might be smart that way the party stands a chance. You have to be careful though and not put a healing fountain in every cave, otherwise the battle becomes less dangerous.
I hope this was helpful.