Hey everyone, I'm looking for some different forms of feedback.
This is for a game I'm playing in but as a fellow DM, I'm curious to see how you would rule this. Here are some quick details:
Party of 3, level 20
This is the final push up the mountain to take down the bad guy who has been empowered through divine means.
My character, a sorcerer, has been using the spy organization he has built to gather people to form a rebellion. However, there have been many disruptions and subterfuge happening that has halted this effort.
My character, as a last ditch effort before the assault, wants to cast Wish to speak to the people on the continent and make a plea that they face their fears and join the rebellion.
There isn't a spell that can give telepathy continent wide let alone for millions of people. If you were the DM of this situation, what would you rule after he makes his wish:
"I wish to telepathically speak to the people of (Continent) for one minute"
It is worded in a way that, hopefully, it is a one way communication from my sorcerer to the people and it puts a time limit on it. Obviously there would be the 33% chance of never casting wish again + exhaustion, but would you have any monkey's paw effects happen on top of that?
One thing to think about.. sure, he's telepathically speaking to them. Nothing says it's automatically in their language. A lot of folk on that continent may speak other languages. Also, it's a voice in their head... how many are going to assume some form of insanity or just a strange voice? Some might think others are playing a trick on them. Do they know who the sorcerer really is? And a small to decent percentage might be asleep... what time of day it is anyway?
A lot of ways to limit this. Just think of how YOU might react (assuming you lived where magic is real) of a random voice in your head (hopefully your language) asking to you do whatever he is exactly saying.
One thing to think about.. sure, he's telepathically speaking to them. Nothing says it's automatically in their language. A lot of folk on that continent may speak other languages. - that's just mean :( Also, it's a voice in their head... how many are going to assume some form of insanity or just a strange voice? - telepathy? People know it exists Some might think others are playing a trick on them. Do they know who the sorcerer really is? - I assume they know what he's asking for And a small to decent percentage might be asleep... what time of day it is anyway? - little dream message? maybe they wake up?
A lot of ways to limit this. Just think of how YOU might react (assuming you lived where magic is real) of a random voice in your head (hopefully your language) asking to you do whatever he is exactly saying. - he isn't asking you to do something specific, just to help a cause.
The point of Wish isn't to pull a "monkey's paw" on the player casting it. The potential negative effects are there solely to prevent the player from abusing it. Personally, I think that your character's wish is entirely reasonable, and so I would 100% allow it. It doesn't mean that everyone will listen to the telepathy, but if I were the DM, I would probably give you a couple hundred commoners, along with a dozen or so adventurers to help out.
The drawbacks of Wish are enough of a risk already. You have the opportunity to have a really fun, heroic moment in the campaign.
If they're chasing the bad guy and will be doing so for an hour or so, you could have the "effect" of speaking to everyone cause them to lose their voice. Amazingly, when they get into the final fight, maybe 2nd round, they gasp or some such and realize their voice is back. Fun, frightening, "monkey's paw" warning and minimal effect hopefully.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
The point of Wish isn't to pull a "monkey's paw" on the player casting it. The potential negative effects are there solely to prevent the player from abusing it. Personally, I think that your character's wish is entirely reasonable, and so I would 100% allow it. It doesn't mean that everyone will listen to the telepathy, but if I were the DM, I would probably give you a couple hundred commoners, along with a dozen or so adventurers to help out.
The drawbacks of Wish are enough of a risk already. You have the opportunity to have a really fun, heroic moment if the campaign.
I think so too. We've been playing this game for a year+ from lvl 3-20. This is our final moment and I wanted to go out with a bang, but stay within the confines of what the wish spell can allow.
Like Pantagruel666, I am still stuck in 1e era, lol. There are folks who will never use wish again, even 40 years later.
odds are I would probably allow it. My baseline rule is based in purpose I can discern. Beneficial type stuff is usually ok as long as it lacks the selfish purpose.
now, in terms of twisting it, oh, oh my…
okay, you can now telepathically speak to the people of the continent for one minute.
it might be gibberish. It could be so loud it slays people. It could be as soft as a whisper’s caress. It could sound exactly like the big bad. It could drive them all mad and raging from the horror of someone else’s voice in their head.
the worst part of a wish isn’t usually the wish itself. It is the consequences of it. Excellent wording, btw. Simple is always best.
even with the nerfs, I have removed wish from the spell options in my campaign. Still there in other forms, just not as a spell.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I think that the only thing I would twist with this would be that, when they arrive at the BBEG's place, as soon as they speak, he would be like "oh! It was your voice I heard earlier!".
If they go giving away critical information by the communication, that's perhaps an oversight on their part - but the wish would work without a hitch or nasty side-effect!
the worst part of a wish isn’t usually the wish itself. It is the consequences of it. Excellent wording, btw. Simple is always best.
Oh thanks. I tried to see what I could get into the confines of this spell that wouldn't make it go haywire. I felt this was the most reasonable I could get it without the potentiality of any drawbacks.
I think that the only thing I would twist with this would be that, when they arrive at the BBEG's place, as soon as they speak, he would be like "oh! It was your voice I heard earlier!".
If they go giving away critical information by the communication, that's perhaps an oversight on their part - but the wish would work without a hitch or nasty side-effect!
I also kind of figured that opportunistic factions could listen in on this including the BBeG, but that is what my character fully understands. No more hiding in the shadows, we're taking this to the battlefield. This is the one area where I hope there isn't a backfire that isn't affected by the wish spell exactly but rather a consequence of just everyone being able to listen to what is going to happen the next day.
The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can't be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength drops to 3, if it isn't 3 or lower already, for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress.
Would you guys rule that the exhaustion effect take place with/without the 33%? I'm curious about that because when this spell happens is just as important as how it happens.
every time you cast a spell after Wish, unti la long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of the spell, which can't be reduced.
Your strength drops to 3, for 2d4 days, and you can reduce this by resting all day.
You have a 33% chance of never being able to cast Wish again.
They are separate effects, so you will suffer all of them if you cast wish like this. I wouldn't add Exhaustion onto that, as a DM, because it's already moderately crippling!
Imma go off on a tangent 'cause my brain is not firing on full yet.
I note that in 5e, the Wish spell has no material components, no somatic components, and that despite this, it is an intensely stressful spell to cast. Drops strength to 3, if you cast a 3rd level spell before resting you take 3d10 damage, you have to just stop for at least 2 days, possibly a week.
Not a spell I would cast in combat, myself. Not unless I was certain that I wouldn't be killed in the aftermath of doing so, because per the rules, basically, all you can do without hurting yourself is stand there and look pretty.
Now, a lot of folks have mentioned how in 5e Wishes aren't DM playgrounds like they wwere in 1e.
In double checking, I note that this isn't accurate:
State your wish to the GM as precisely as possible. The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner.
They don't use some of the more extreme examples, and the early examples of "how to use a wish" are pretty mundane (ooh, immunity for 8 hours to a certain kind of attack! Yay!).
One of my favorite mechanics around the function of a wish was used in a novel not too long ago. In it, the djinn are basically unable to lie. Not because they cannot tell a falsehood, but because in the context of that world, whatever they speak *can only be the truth*.
So, for example, one might ask them to say that you will become fabulously wealthy and live to a ripe old age with many joyous days. if they said it, that became truth, and thus changed reality around it -- for reality is the truth, in this construct.
(they apparently are not big on RPG in djinn circles, I guess)
Because djinn were hunted, and sought out, sometimes even captured and tortured for this, they would sometimes word selfish requests and *reality* would alter in a way that was not the favorable outcome sought -- and generally speaking, outcomes are rarely favorable because things were always cause and effect based. Wish for wealth, and find yourself a successful thief, and so forth.
That kind of system -- where the Wish is a truth so staggering that it drains a Mortal -- creates a very different set of circumstances.
Ok, thanks, just me being me and thinking out loud about stuff -- I do that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Imma go off on a tangent 'cause my brain is not firing on full yet.
I note that in 5e, the Wish spell has no material components, no somatic components, and that despite this, it is an intensely stressful spell to cast. Drops strength to 3, if you cast a 3rd level spell before resting you take 3d10 damage, you have to just stop for at least 2 days, possibly a week.
Not a spell I would cast in combat, myself. Not unless I was certain that I wouldn't be killed in the aftermath of doing so, because per the rules, basically, all you can do without hurting yourself is stand there and look pretty.
Now, a lot of folks have mentioned how in 5e Wishes aren't DM playgrounds like they wwere in 1e.
In double checking, I note that this isn't accurate:
State your wish to the GM as precisely as possible. The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner.
They don't use some of the more extreme examples, and the early examples of "how to use a wish" are pretty mundane (ooh, immunity for 8 hours to a certain kind of attack! Yay!).
One of my favorite mechanics around the function of a wish was used in a novel not too long ago. In it, the djinn are basically unable to lie. Not because they cannot tell a falsehood, but because in the context of that world, whatever they speak *can only be the truth*.
So, for example, one might ask them to say that you will become fabulously wealthy and live to a ripe old age with many joyous days. if they said it, that became truth, and thus changed reality around it -- for reality is the truth, in this construct.
(they apparently are not big on RPG in djinn circles, I guess)
Because djinn were hunted, and sought out, sometimes even captured and tortured for this, they would sometimes word selfish requests and *reality* would alter in a way that was not the favorable outcome sought -- and generally speaking, outcomes are rarely favorable because things were always cause and effect based. Wish for wealth, and find yourself a successful thief, and so forth.
That kind of system -- where the Wish is a truth so staggering that it drains a Mortal -- creates a very different set of circumstances.
Ok, thanks, just me being me and thinking out loud about stuff -- I do that.
I thought this was insightful. Gives another look at the system of wish and reality bending
Regarding casting it in combat, it can also be literally any other spell of 8th level or lower, with no downside except the burnt 9th-level spell slot. The super-risky ask-the-DM-for-stuff wish side is more of a bonus! Even without it, it would be an amazing 9th level spell!
Regarding casting it in combat, it can also be literally any other spell of 8th level or lower, with no downside except the burnt 9th-level spell slot. The super-risky ask-the-DM-for-stuff wish side is more of a bonus! Even without it, it would be an amazing 9th level spell!
I considered casting simulacrum as a sorcerer, in combat, using the wish spell to cast simulacrum with no material components and no ritual time necessary and then proceed to cast quadruple disintegrate with both characters using twinned spell on whatever enemies need to die lol.
My DM and I agreed on no infinite chain wish + simulacrum since it's just silly.
The only downside is that my simulacrum just appears without any clothes so there's that lol. Roll for psychic damage haha
Hey everyone, I'm looking for some different forms of feedback.
This is for a game I'm playing in but as a fellow DM, I'm curious to see how you would rule this. Here are some quick details:
There isn't a spell that can give telepathy continent wide let alone for millions of people. If you were the DM of this situation, what would you rule after he makes his wish:
"I wish to telepathically speak to the people of (Continent) for one minute"
It is worded in a way that, hopefully, it is a one way communication from my sorcerer to the people and it puts a time limit on it. Obviously there would be the 33% chance of never casting wish again + exhaustion, but would you have any monkey's paw effects happen on top of that?
I wouldn't say that it's clearly worded to be one way. I can think of several ways of twisting that to be unhelpful, but I'm not sure I would.
For fun, what are the ways you would twist it?
Teleport them all to you?
Still, I think that the wish is okay. It's unique, but not too powerful.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
One thing to think about.. sure, he's telepathically speaking to them. Nothing says it's automatically in their language. A lot of folk on that continent may speak other languages.
Also, it's a voice in their head... how many are going to assume some form of insanity or just a strange voice?
Some might think others are playing a trick on them. Do they know who the sorcerer really is?
And a small to decent percentage might be asleep... what time of day it is anyway?
A lot of ways to limit this. Just think of how YOU might react (assuming you lived where magic is real) of a random voice in your head (hopefully your language) asking to you do whatever he is exactly saying.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
The point of Wish isn't to pull a "monkey's paw" on the player casting it. The potential negative effects are there solely to prevent the player from abusing it. Personally, I think that your character's wish is entirely reasonable, and so I would 100% allow it. It doesn't mean that everyone will listen to the telepathy, but if I were the DM, I would probably give you a couple hundred commoners, along with a dozen or so adventurers to help out.
The drawbacks of Wish are enough of a risk already. You have the opportunity to have a really fun, heroic moment in the campaign.
[REDACTED]
Eh, depends on the edition. It was absolutely the point in AD&D.
Luckily there's been 3 editions since then.
A DM might well call for a Persuasion roll to see how effective your speech is.
If they're chasing the bad guy and will be doing so for an hour or so, you could have the "effect" of speaking to everyone cause them to lose their voice. Amazingly, when they get into the final fight, maybe 2nd round, they gasp or some such and realize their voice is back. Fun, frightening, "monkey's paw" warning and minimal effect hopefully.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I think so too. We've been playing this game for a year+ from lvl 3-20. This is our final moment and I wanted to go out with a bang, but stay within the confines of what the wish spell can allow.
I would almost encourage him to make me roll a persuasion roll. Granted the people of this continent would have no idea what the hell is going on.
I just realized but its very in line with some of the final moments of Dragonball Z when Mr. Satan speaks to earth lol
Like Pantagruel666, I am still stuck in 1e era, lol. There are folks who will never use wish again, even 40 years later.
odds are I would probably allow it. My baseline rule is based in purpose I can discern. Beneficial type stuff is usually ok as long as it lacks the selfish purpose.
now, in terms of twisting it, oh, oh my…
okay, you can now telepathically speak to the people of the continent for one minute.
it might be gibberish. It could be so loud it slays people. It could be as soft as a whisper’s caress. It could sound exactly like the big bad. It could drive them all mad and raging from the horror of someone else’s voice in their head.
the worst part of a wish isn’t usually the wish itself. It is the consequences of it. Excellent wording, btw. Simple is always best.
even with the nerfs, I have removed wish from the spell options in my campaign. Still there in other forms, just not as a spell.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I think that the only thing I would twist with this would be that, when they arrive at the BBEG's place, as soon as they speak, he would be like "oh! It was your voice I heard earlier!".
If they go giving away critical information by the communication, that's perhaps an oversight on their part - but the wish would work without a hitch or nasty side-effect!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Oh thanks. I tried to see what I could get into the confines of this spell that wouldn't make it go haywire. I felt this was the most reasonable I could get it without the potentiality of any drawbacks.
I also kind of figured that opportunistic factions could listen in on this including the BBeG, but that is what my character fully understands. No more hiding in the shadows, we're taking this to the battlefield. This is the one area where I hope there isn't a backfire that isn't affected by the wish spell exactly but rather a consequence of just everyone being able to listen to what is going to happen the next day.
Would you guys rule that the exhaustion effect take place with/without the 33%? I'm curious about that because when this spell happens is just as important as how it happens.
I would rule it that:
They are separate effects, so you will suffer all of them if you cast wish like this. I wouldn't add Exhaustion onto that, as a DM, because it's already moderately crippling!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Imma go off on a tangent 'cause my brain is not firing on full yet.
I note that in 5e, the Wish spell has no material components, no somatic components, and that despite this, it is an intensely stressful spell to cast. Drops strength to 3, if you cast a 3rd level spell before resting you take 3d10 damage, you have to just stop for at least 2 days, possibly a week.
Not a spell I would cast in combat, myself. Not unless I was certain that I wouldn't be killed in the aftermath of doing so, because per the rules, basically, all you can do without hurting yourself is stand there and look pretty.
Now, a lot of folks have mentioned how in 5e Wishes aren't DM playgrounds like they wwere in 1e.
In double checking, I note that this isn't accurate:
They don't use some of the more extreme examples, and the early examples of "how to use a wish" are pretty mundane (ooh, immunity for 8 hours to a certain kind of attack! Yay!).
One of my favorite mechanics around the function of a wish was used in a novel not too long ago. In it, the djinn are basically unable to lie. Not because they cannot tell a falsehood, but because in the context of that world, whatever they speak *can only be the truth*.
So, for example, one might ask them to say that you will become fabulously wealthy and live to a ripe old age with many joyous days. if they said it, that became truth, and thus changed reality around it -- for reality is the truth, in this construct.
(they apparently are not big on RPG in djinn circles, I guess)
Because djinn were hunted, and sought out, sometimes even captured and tortured for this, they would sometimes word selfish requests and *reality* would alter in a way that was not the favorable outcome sought -- and generally speaking, outcomes are rarely favorable because things were always cause and effect based. Wish for wealth, and find yourself a successful thief, and so forth.
That kind of system -- where the Wish is a truth so staggering that it drains a Mortal -- creates a very different set of circumstances.
Ok, thanks, just me being me and thinking out loud about stuff -- I do that.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I thought this was insightful. Gives another look at the system of wish and reality bending
Regarding casting it in combat, it can also be literally any other spell of 8th level or lower, with no downside except the burnt 9th-level spell slot. The super-risky ask-the-DM-for-stuff wish side is more of a bonus! Even without it, it would be an amazing 9th level spell!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I considered casting simulacrum as a sorcerer, in combat, using the wish spell to cast simulacrum with no material components and no ritual time necessary and then proceed to cast quadruple disintegrate with both characters using twinned spell on whatever enemies need to die lol.
My DM and I agreed on no infinite chain wish + simulacrum since it's just silly.
The only downside is that my simulacrum just appears without any clothes so there's that lol. Roll for psychic damage haha