How would your rate your DM style in terms of realism, with 10 being very real and 1 being very casual? I'd like an idea of what DM's prioritize in their games so I can improve my style. Have you included/excluded certain elements as you've gained DM experience?
My priorities: combat realism, character and role features, rest, time, exploration
Little or no attention: rations/eating, weather, encumbrance (to a degree), mapping
As someone who aspires to realism, I have learned the hard way that verisimilitude is far better for everyone involved. It's better for the players because their expectations can contribute meaningfully. It's better for DMs because stories are much more enjoyable without arguments over the air speed of a fully laden swallow. It's better for groups of people because no one should have to have completed a calculus course in order to enjoy a storytelling game. It's just better.
8? I usually care about the weight of items, not their volume. I do pay attention to rations, though I do not deal with the aftermath. Do not need to simulate everything. I am used to old rules where you had to pay attention to light sources not going out and mapping the dungeon, and I think it has its merits. But it takes practice to deal with it in the background and not slow down the game to a halt while trying to simulate everything, it can be bit overwhelming the first time you do it.
I also avoid realism when the story requires it. I am a big fan of Terry Pratchett and his concept of narrativum and Narrative Causality, some tropes are too good to ignore.
I co ran a group when I was in the Navy going through Nuclear Power School. We had a group of sailors that were all very intelligent and we were well educated on physics, math, heat transfer, and other things.
One of them designed a Bernoulli nozzle to affix to a Decanter of Endless water. So we used a selection formulas and calculated the rate of flow
That and other things.
However, it is a game of fantasy. But I try to keep many real world things intact. Languages are one. In my world you only read and write as a native speaker in your species language and common. However, your reading ability is modified by your intelligence.
Other languages you get a one time proficiency roll to see how well you speak it and another rolls to see if you can read and write it. Based on the idea that a level 1 player has almost no experience.
Wizards get more language ability because they are scholars.
I am way too weird for this, but willing to give it a shot:
I run campaigns as the story of adventurers. I run them within the context of the fantasy world, so there isn’t a lot of “modern stuff dropping in” and all of it is bent towards the purpose of the story. there are limits to the capacity of the day to achieve things.
How would I rate my stuff? About a 4.5. In part because if I followed the square cube law religiously for bipedal being, stuff would collapse fast, dragons wouldn’t be Abel to fly, magic would be pretty much gone, and and I would have to come up with all manner of rules and stuff that just bog the game down. running games since the 80’s I have learned not to bog the game down in paperwork. I track stuff that adds to the game, and since role play is a big part, we use the rules to support it. My game was called the bastard child of 2e and 5e and skip the middle part, lol.
I have a few stages of encumbrance. They are set up really simply, but slightly more crunchy than the RAW. I don’t try to make weapons or Armor work like they do int he real world — I have freaking handguns, for cryin out loud. I have magical girls and Jedi. Trying to make those “real world” would basically require me to rewrite the entire game, and in doing so it would lose the point.
because *in the game* all of this is reality — and while I am not foolish and fully aware that there are social ills in the broader reality that cannot help but intrude, I am also way too educated to not turn those around and use them as teaching tools. But i have had characters decide “well, imma build me a contraption” that is essentially an internal combustion engine. Now, this is a world where one city has cars and folks use them for drive by crossbow shootings. Where there is a train that floats over the surface of the world.Where there are flying ships and ships that sail on a sea of sand.
so I asked him where he would get the tools. Where he would get the metals. How he would make some of the small parts when watches are still a ways away and clockworks are the closest thing to mechanical operation. And he asked about the cars and the train and the sky ships and I said they all operate on special, unique forms of magic that are secret, just like the guns.
Because there are two stages — I take all the stuff that annoys me about hyper realism efforts using modern world knowledge and I gut them. The world is iron poor. I have used the gunpowder doesn’t work trope. and so forth. I had someone argue for twenty minutes about the war of the roses with me and it ended when i pointed out that the war of the roses took place on Earth and they weren’t even in the same galaxy as earth. For me, as the DM, the setting matters.
So, within the contexts of the game, I am very much a realist. But within the larger idea of the world we live in, only if it contributes to the fun of the game for everyone. I have done the realistic world thing when I used Harn for about a year. Did not work well because Harn and D&D don’t play well together.
Of course, while I will write highly detailed encounters and all that, my actual play style is almost entirely improvisational, so I cannot give myself a high score because we do love our in jokes and pop culture references.
But this is just me. I know one of my players runs a game where they are basically doing the modern world but with RAW or as close to it as possible, and I occasionally create things for them.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
like. 3. I tend to let my world and story building get very wild very fast, and let my players do the same. No rations, no ammo tracking/encumbrance. You wanna climb up a house with a strength of -2? I mean I won't stop you from trying. I tend to let the world support the rolls, so in the previous example, if they'd rolled high enough, i would have said x NPC you're traveling with gives you a boost or something, which i guess balances out the realism a little in that respect. However I also have no qualms about "anachronisms" (or what that could even entail in a fantasy world), actual nature/physics, stuff like that. I would let the party melt down a metal door with Firebolt, but only if they actually dedicated the time to it xD
@eapiv Good points. Restricting imagination for rules of inconsequential events slows the game down.
@Andy 42 Weight is important. It's just common sense that a person cannot carry 500 arrows and five heavy weapons (Skyrim, are you listening?). It also applies to many important things like swimming, climbing, and physically impossible actions like carrying 400 lbs. of gold. Food should be included for grand campaigns, like being in vast regions, not in small towns or the like. Light sources have not been an issue for me so far b/c my new group all have darkvision, although I find darkvision to be too easy. Thanks for the comments.
@AEDorsay I agree with "less is more" for rules. It's too taxing for the DM to have to have ballistics charts and values for specific gravity. I was reading the original rules of the first Dnd, and it's specific, almost like it was made by scientists or accountants. One of the newer players also asked about inventions. I said that if you can do it irl then you probably can do it in dnd, but that you cannot just snap your fingers and have something instantly made. The player would have to learn how to invent, find someone who could train her, buy materials, have a lab and set aside time to do it. This could realistically take years, maybe more than a decade. I don't particularly like the invention idea anyway since it can lead to someone creating an overpowered or unrealistic object. Things like this, although intriguing, are tricky to implement. I would have to make a rule that inventions would have to fit the player's experience level.
@Captainclever Sounds fun but too crazy for me. I can sometimes get very controlling about things and wouldn't want players getting out of hand with ideas b/c I'd think they would get off track and never finish the game.
As a player, I can go with whatever level of realism that the current members of the table have established. I too believe that encumbrance matters, especially when flight or swimming come into play. For my own playing enjoyment, I'll keep a character stripped down, despite any table rule allowing one to carry all they can pick up. Magical aids notwithstanding.
As a DM, I like to interact with the table in a storyteller's style, and keep the game flowing. I also have a very well established world and occupants, before introducing players to it. That way, I may have already provided some of the answers, to hand to the more exacting player.
When I'm DMing it's a pen and paper affair so I don't worry too much about encumberance or ammunition. The players are new and so it's pretty rules light and keeping things moving rather than worrying about specifics (most of the time it's just move, action). We are at the stage where the different shaped dice are still a source of excitement so the rest is pretty easy.
When I'm DMing it's a pen and paper affair so I don't worry too much about encumberance or ammunition. The players are new and so it's pretty rules light and keeping things moving rather than worrying about specifics (most of the time it's just move, action). We are at the stage where the different shaped dice are still a source of excitement so the rest is pretty easy.
Agreed. I just don't worry about gear. Now if the part was to find a dragon hoard with 10000 gold pieces, then we have a problem.
As a DM I let the players run with the assumption that after each combat that they will retrieve things like arrows and bolts.
I run with the assumption that those that need common spell components are constantly acquiring them and finding them as a second nature. More expensive or unique components I do make them look for.
For combat realism. If you cast a fireball in an enclosed space it will not be pretty if you are to close.
When I'm DMing it's a pen and paper affair so I don't worry too much about encumberance or ammunition. The players are new and so it's pretty rules light and keeping things moving rather than worrying about specifics (most of the time it's just move, action). We are at the stage where the different shaped dice are still a source of excitement so the rest is pretty easy.
Agreed. I just don't worry about gear. Now if the part was to find a dragon hoard with 10000 gold pieces, then we have a problem.
Ha, Ha, that would give them something to think about.
When I'm DMing it's a pen and paper affair so I don't worry too much about encumberance or ammunition. The players are new and so it's pretty rules light and keeping things moving rather than worrying about specifics (most of the time it's just move, action). We are at the stage where the different shaped dice are still a source of excitement so the rest is pretty easy.
Agreed. I just don't worry about gear. Now if the part was to find a dragon hoard with 10000 gold pieces, then we have a problem.
Ha, Ha, that would give them something to think about.
Well lets see. 1 gp weighs 1/3 an oz so 50 coins is a pound. so 10000 coins would be 200 pounds. If you have enough strength you could divvy it up. Or maybe cast tensors floating disk and have the caster ride a horse very quickly and the disk will follow. Should be able to load it and make it 15 miles a leg
Encumbrance is always a pain the hiney. The whole volume and weight and mass and greed thing is a big deal — and it was pretty likely it was a dragon hoard that forced the creation of rules, lol.
but encumbrance only matters when it serves the story. There was a time when PCs carried several bags of holding, lol. Then those needed rules for how much and what they could hold, then rules for how many, and so forth.
I have encumbrance because I have values for things like monster parts and raw ore and bolts of cloth and such. And I have carts and wagons and more. It matters to a story that you can’t walk out of a cavern with 10,000 high value coins — because now there is reason to go back, and who knows what moves in while you are gone? Plus, when you rent a dozen wagons, people pay attention. Including bandits. And so forth.
does it matter if they are tramping around with 600 pounds of gear, and does matter when they are doing it with 60?
I say “maybe”, lol. And play it that way.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
i like some versimilitude but im not hell-bent on realism knowing well its a game played to have fun rather than be real and precise. Things like food, water and basic bodily needs are not tracked or roleplayed, but things like exact ammunition and gear weights is for exemple.
I try to keep the NPC interactions, behaviors, world events ... logically consistent and "real" so that the stories and plots are logically consistent and make sense (even if the players don't have enough details for it to make sense to them yet).
However, in terms of game mechanics, the rules of D&D limit what can be done.
In terms of food/drink/shelter - I only worry about the "reality" of it if it makes a difference to the story. Parties routinely camp. I've been camping, it takes a while to set up, tear down, gather firewood, cook food, boil water for tea :). However, none of that is interesting to 99% of folks in a role playing game. Eating at an inn, ordering food and drink, sets a tone and feeling for a scene but the costs for adventurers once they have some gold are negligible. Is it really worth tracking 5 silver pieces and 8 copper for a platter of food and ale when the character has 1000gp stashed away? These kinds of reality details are used to set the tone and expectations/imagination of the players.
In terms of encumbrance, I will usually not pay close attention except for situations where the party wants to carry an "unreasonable" amount of equipment or treasure. "Exactly how are you carrying the 10,000 gp you found in the chest?" It usually isn't worth the overhead of trying to monitor every detail of what the characters are carrying.
Combat is also not "real". D&D isn't a simulator. The attacks/spells/actions etc in combat provide an interesting mini game but each combat round is 6 seconds. Fights are typically over in a few rounds - often within 18 seconds - including characters carrying over a hundred pounds of equipment running towards each other. Weapons are divided up into bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, melee and ranged/thrown. With a few special properties added on top to provide some extra interest. It makes for a fun way to resolve fights but it isn't "realistic". However, this is heroic fantasy, so "realism" isn't a requirement :)
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How would your rate your DM style in terms of realism, with 10 being very real and 1 being very casual? I'd like an idea of what DM's prioritize in their games so I can improve my style. Have you included/excluded certain elements as you've gained DM experience?
My priorities: combat realism, character and role features, rest, time, exploration
Little or no attention: rations/eating, weather, encumbrance (to a degree), mapping
Thank you for any comments.
As someone who aspires to realism, I have learned the hard way that verisimilitude is far better for everyone involved. It's better for the players because their expectations can contribute meaningfully. It's better for DMs because stories are much more enjoyable without arguments over the air speed of a fully laden swallow. It's better for groups of people because no one should have to have completed a calculus course in order to enjoy a storytelling game. It's just better.
8? I usually care about the weight of items, not their volume. I do pay attention to rations, though I do not deal with the aftermath. Do not need to simulate everything. I am used to old rules where you had to pay attention to light sources not going out and mapping the dungeon, and I think it has its merits. But it takes practice to deal with it in the background and not slow down the game to a halt while trying to simulate everything, it can be bit overwhelming the first time you do it.
I also avoid realism when the story requires it. I am a big fan of Terry Pratchett and his concept of narrativum and Narrative Causality, some tropes are too good to ignore.
I like realism with my fantasy.
I co ran a group when I was in the Navy going through Nuclear Power School. We had a group of sailors that were all very intelligent and we were well educated on physics, math, heat transfer, and other things.
One of them designed a Bernoulli nozzle to affix to a Decanter of Endless water. So we used a selection formulas and calculated the rate of flow
That and other things.
However, it is a game of fantasy. But I try to keep many real world things intact. Languages are one. In my world you only read and write as a native speaker in your species language and common. However, your reading ability is modified by your intelligence.
Other languages you get a one time proficiency roll to see how well you speak it and another rolls to see if you can read and write it. Based on the idea that a level 1 player has almost no experience.
Wizards get more language ability because they are scholars.
I am way too weird for this, but willing to give it a shot:
I run campaigns as the story of adventurers. I run them within the context of the fantasy world, so there isn’t a lot of “modern stuff dropping in” and all of it is bent towards the purpose of the story. there are limits to the capacity of the day to achieve things.
How would I rate my stuff? About a 4.5. In part because if I followed the square cube law religiously for bipedal being, stuff would collapse fast, dragons wouldn’t be Abel to fly, magic would be pretty much gone, and and I would have to come up with all manner of rules and stuff that just bog the game down. running games since the 80’s I have learned not to bog the game down in paperwork. I track stuff that adds to the game, and since role play is a big part, we use the rules to support it. My game was called the bastard child of 2e and 5e and skip the middle part, lol.
I have a few stages of encumbrance. They are set up really simply, but slightly more crunchy than the RAW. I don’t try to make weapons or Armor work like they do int he real world — I have freaking handguns, for cryin out loud. I have magical girls and Jedi. Trying to make those “real world” would basically require me to rewrite the entire game, and in doing so it would lose the point.
because *in the game* all of this is reality — and while I am not foolish and fully aware that there are social ills in the broader reality that cannot help but intrude, I am also way too educated to not turn those around and use them as teaching tools. But i have had characters decide “well, imma build me a contraption” that is essentially an internal combustion engine. Now, this is a world where one city has cars and folks use them for drive by crossbow shootings. Where there is a train that floats over the surface of the world.Where there are flying ships and ships that sail on a sea of sand.
so I asked him where he would get the tools. Where he would get the metals. How he would make some of the small parts when watches are still a ways away and clockworks are the closest thing to mechanical operation. And he asked about the cars and the train and the sky ships and I said they all operate on special, unique forms of magic that are secret, just like the guns.
Because there are two stages — I take all the stuff that annoys me about hyper realism efforts using modern world knowledge and I gut them. The world is iron poor. I have used the gunpowder doesn’t work trope. and so forth. I had someone argue for twenty minutes about the war of the roses with me and it ended when i pointed out that the war of the roses took place on Earth and they weren’t even in the same galaxy as earth. For me, as the DM, the setting matters.
So, within the contexts of the game, I am very much a realist. But within the larger idea of the world we live in, only if it contributes to the fun of the game for everyone. I have done the realistic world thing when I used Harn for about a year. Did not work well because Harn and D&D don’t play well together.
Of course, while I will write highly detailed encounters and all that, my actual play style is almost entirely improvisational, so I cannot give myself a high score because we do love our in jokes and pop culture references.
But this is just me. I know one of my players runs a game where they are basically doing the modern world but with RAW or as close to it as possible, and I occasionally create things for them.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
like. 3. I tend to let my world and story building get very wild very fast, and let my players do the same. No rations, no ammo tracking/encumbrance. You wanna climb up a house with a strength of -2? I mean I won't stop you from trying. I tend to let the world support the rolls, so in the previous example, if they'd rolled high enough, i would have said x NPC you're traveling with gives you a boost or something, which i guess balances out the realism a little in that respect. However I also have no qualms about "anachronisms" (or what that could even entail in a fantasy world), actual nature/physics, stuff like that. I would let the party melt down a metal door with Firebolt, but only if they actually dedicated the time to it xD
:)
@eapiv Good points. Restricting imagination for rules of inconsequential events slows the game down.
@Andy 42 Weight is important. It's just common sense that a person cannot carry 500 arrows and five heavy weapons (Skyrim, are you listening?). It also applies to many important things like swimming, climbing, and physically impossible actions like carrying 400 lbs. of gold. Food should be included for grand campaigns, like being in vast regions, not in small towns or the like. Light sources have not been an issue for me so far b/c my new group all have darkvision, although I find darkvision to be too easy. Thanks for the comments.
@AEDorsay I agree with "less is more" for rules. It's too taxing for the DM to have to have ballistics charts and values for specific gravity. I was reading the original rules of the first Dnd, and it's specific, almost like it was made by scientists or accountants. One of the newer players also asked about inventions. I said that if you can do it irl then you probably can do it in dnd, but that you cannot just snap your fingers and have something instantly made. The player would have to learn how to invent, find someone who could train her, buy materials, have a lab and set aside time to do it. This could realistically take years, maybe more than a decade. I don't particularly like the invention idea anyway since it can lead to someone creating an overpowered or unrealistic object. Things like this, although intriguing, are tricky to implement. I would have to make a rule that inventions would have to fit the player's experience level.
@Captainclever Sounds fun but too crazy for me. I can sometimes get very controlling about things and wouldn't want players getting out of hand with ideas b/c I'd think they would get off track and never finish the game.
As a player, I can go with whatever level of realism that the current members of the table have established. I too believe that encumbrance matters, especially when flight or swimming come into play. For my own playing enjoyment, I'll keep a character stripped down, despite any table rule allowing one to carry all they can pick up. Magical aids notwithstanding.
As a DM, I like to interact with the table in a storyteller's style, and keep the game flowing. I also have a very well established world and occupants, before introducing players to it. That way, I may have already provided some of the answers, to hand to the more exacting player.
When I'm DMing it's a pen and paper affair so I don't worry too much about encumberance or ammunition. The players are new and so it's pretty rules light and keeping things moving rather than worrying about specifics (most of the time it's just move, action). We are at the stage where the different shaped dice are still a source of excitement so the rest is pretty easy.
Agreed. I just don't worry about gear. Now if the part was to find a dragon hoard with 10000 gold pieces, then we have a problem.
As a DM I let the players run with the assumption that after each combat that they will retrieve things like arrows and bolts.
I run with the assumption that those that need common spell components are constantly acquiring them and finding them as a second nature. More expensive or unique components I do make them look for.
For combat realism. If you cast a fireball in an enclosed space it will not be pretty if you are to close.
.
Ha, Ha, that would give them something to think about.
Well lets see. 1 gp weighs 1/3 an oz so 50 coins is a pound. so 10000 coins would be 200 pounds. If you have enough strength you could divvy it up. Or maybe cast tensors floating disk and have the caster ride a horse very quickly and the disk will follow. Should be able to load it and make it 15 miles a leg
Encumbrance is always a pain the hiney. The whole volume and weight and mass and greed thing is a big deal — and it was pretty likely it was a dragon hoard that forced the creation of rules, lol.
but encumbrance only matters when it serves the story. There was a time when PCs carried several bags of holding, lol. Then those needed rules for how much and what they could hold, then rules for how many, and so forth.
I have encumbrance because I have values for things like monster parts and raw ore and bolts of cloth and such. And I have carts and wagons and more. It matters to a story that you can’t walk out of a cavern with 10,000 high value coins — because now there is reason to go back, and who knows what moves in while you are gone? Plus, when you rent a dozen wagons, people pay attention. Including bandits. And so forth.
does it matter if they are tramping around with 600 pounds of gear, and does matter when they are doing it with 60?
I say “maybe”, lol. And play it that way.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
i like some versimilitude but im not hell-bent on realism knowing well its a game played to have fun rather than be real and precise. Things like food, water and basic bodily needs are not tracked or roleplayed, but things like exact ammunition and gear weights is for exemple.
I try to keep the NPC interactions, behaviors, world events ... logically consistent and "real" so that the stories and plots are logically consistent and make sense (even if the players don't have enough details for it to make sense to them yet).
However, in terms of game mechanics, the rules of D&D limit what can be done.
In terms of food/drink/shelter - I only worry about the "reality" of it if it makes a difference to the story. Parties routinely camp. I've been camping, it takes a while to set up, tear down, gather firewood, cook food, boil water for tea :). However, none of that is interesting to 99% of folks in a role playing game. Eating at an inn, ordering food and drink, sets a tone and feeling for a scene but the costs for adventurers once they have some gold are negligible. Is it really worth tracking 5 silver pieces and 8 copper for a platter of food and ale when the character has 1000gp stashed away? These kinds of reality details are used to set the tone and expectations/imagination of the players.
In terms of encumbrance, I will usually not pay close attention except for situations where the party wants to carry an "unreasonable" amount of equipment or treasure. "Exactly how are you carrying the 10,000 gp you found in the chest?" It usually isn't worth the overhead of trying to monitor every detail of what the characters are carrying.
Combat is also not "real". D&D isn't a simulator. The attacks/spells/actions etc in combat provide an interesting mini game but each combat round is 6 seconds. Fights are typically over in a few rounds - often within 18 seconds - including characters carrying over a hundred pounds of equipment running towards each other. Weapons are divided up into bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, melee and ranged/thrown. With a few special properties added on top to provide some extra interest. It makes for a fun way to resolve fights but it isn't "realistic". However, this is heroic fantasy, so "realism" isn't a requirement :)