Hello! First time DM with a few sessions under my belt. This campaign is my first and it’s home brewed (because I like driving myself crazy XD)
I’m having a bit of conundrum with a few parts of the process.
Namely: 1. Setting up a shop. 2. The final boss battle.
Context:
so in my story, Heaven and hell have had their final battle and Hell won. So the world (except one island) turned into a hellish place with 7 continents (each representing a different sin).
Shop Problem:
Currently my group is going to Lust onboard an airship. On that airship, an NPC friend of theirs named Mako is going to set up a shop for them.
Now the world is in ruins, there's not very much by way of resources/gold. So how do I make a shop that reflects the restrictive nature of the narrative but still offers them some fun toys! Items and prices would be great or at bare minimum tell me how you set up a shop.
Boss Battle Problem:
Okay so basically, the place they're traveling to is called Lanercost. It’s actually one of the few functional societies left in the world and relishes in debauchery, adultery, etc.
In the story so far, a demon agent will capture Mako and delivers him to the Demon Exarch who rules there. There are 7 demon exarchs, each one representing a sin and each one ruling a different continent they make in their image with Pride being the BBEG.
I basically have figured out the ways the group (3 level 3s, with a bard, ranger and rogue) could get into the lair of the demon exarch who rules there. It’s named In’nassi of Red Pedals, a demon who takes on the appearance of whatever the observer finds the most sexually attractive.
So my biggest problem is, these demons exarchs have been around since the dawn of time. How in the world are 3 level 3’s going to have a chance against In’nassi?
I have a couple ideas but nothing fleshed to conclusion.
So one idea I’m toying with is each exarch is as much a slave to their sins as they are their masters. But I don’t want each encounter with an exarch to end without a fight. So ideally I’d like a solution that involves a battle and one that doesn’t include one and leave it up to the players how they do it.
You've...set yourself up with some interesting problems.
1. The Shop: You can literally rationalize anything you'd like. Who does this NPC typically sell to, and what can they afford to pay? How does he get his merchandise? So, in a logical world, things that people would really want sell for high prices. Your particular world setup is already far flung from typical. Also sometimes there's a disconnect between how one person or group values something vs how others value it. Weapons might be really common (or highly valued) on wrath, but either rare or worthless on sloth. (I'm guessing at your sins...) So if something cool literally falls into the merchant's lap, he can justify selling it at under cost. Also, you can't make a living selling Lamborghinis in poor neighborhoods. So, if he's on an airship selling to people on the airship, it makes no sense for him to be sitting on merchandise that no one can afford to buy. That said, if you want an aspirational item for the pcs to work towards buying, then you can justify that too. Honestly, I wouldn't over-analyze it. Just plan out some things in advance, price them appropriately so that the PCs have to pick and choose what they really want, and move on from there. The fun of shopping is choices, so make sure you create things that the players might want, but at prices that they can't afford to buy everything at once. You could even create a table of availability if you want to randomize things.
2. As far as the demon lords: Unless every island is ruled by violence, there's no particular reason to think that the demon of lust would be a powerful combatant. It's more likely to be a powerful manipulator, able to charm anyone or anything to do its bidding. To this end, the party could quest to find an artifact that allows them to resist its powers, thus making the combat possible. Or, the Exarchs' powers might be tied to an artifact or demonic mechanism, and the PCs could find a way to destroy that instead of engaging in combat with the Demon itself. So yeah, that's my advice: Either make the demons appropriately challenging for whatever level the PCs happen to be, or use a MacGuffin to allow the PCs to avoid fighting them/reduce their power.
I hope that helps. Remember not to overthink it. Unless your players are consistently rolling their eyes at you or complaining about logical inconsistencies, they will probably just accept the reality you present to them. Some of the demon lords are tougher than others, the merchant happens to have these items at these prices, and they can concentrate on what they'd like to do next.
That is very helpful! Overtinking is a bit of a problem I have haha!
1. Mako tends to sell to other survivors. I've had it thus far he finds his merchandise when the other characters are off the ship having their adventures and he goes out scouting for them. He's a former gladiator so he's no slouch on his own.
I really like the idea of adjusting the prices based on location! That does make a lot of sense!
2. Again, very helpful advice! I've made the demon hierarchy to be one of kind of overpowering, backstabbing and manipulation. So it would make sense to have each ascend to power in different ways, (wrath could be brute force, lust manipulation, etc.).
What you said about artifacts gave me a pretty good idea! This lair they infiltrate could have been a monastery devoted to some god/goddess of chastity, that was corrupted once the demons took over out of spite. In the depths they find some artifacts that helps them against In'nassi.
if Mako happened to have a hobby of leathercrafting, blacksmithing, or potion making it wouldn't be hard to figure out what to trade. just bring in raw materials and, even better, there'll be new things in the shop later based on that. since they're a former gladiator, maybe they've picked up old tricks, charms or superstitions that they swear keep people alive in tough situations. all they need are some ox grease, plump rat tails, crushed beetles, sucubus fingernails, ogre bile... are you writing this down?? this charm is guaranteed to keep away crocodiles! unless it's alligators. (etc etc.)
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Regarding what they can do to the demon overlord, I would recommend trying to set it up that they can impress him. I am assuming that their goal is to overthrow the hellish rulers and bring balance to the world, so when you bear in mind that the demons will always end up fighting against one another for power, they may well seek to use a resourceful party to fight one another. For example, the demon lord of lust may seek to have the party do some work for him to weaken the demon lord of sloth. Giving them a regular continent-hopping experience as they play the demon lords off against one another until they are weak enough for the last remnants of heavens to strike back at them. Demons are often portrayed as closed-sighted, where they set an aim and hyperfocus on it. If they all want what each other have, then the party could be "used" whilst actually chipping away at their defences and power.
In short - the demon exarch will see them overcoming some obstacles and enemies and then proposition that they help him to defeat someone else who they plan on killing anyway.
Hi Rumloverum, I really like that idea, plus it's very befitting of Mako's character to have some crazy ointments of varying utility, being the comic relief in the story! Thanks!
You mentioned that the BBEG would be pride, right? Pride doesn't mean that they have to be great at fighting- it just means that the BBEG will have had millions of years to practice being overly proud. This opens itself up to some interesting ways to beat the boss:
1. They don't have to be trained in fighting: It could just be some demon that's spent it's life admiring itself it a mirror and can't fight. Maybe it has some infernal powers because of it's nature as a demon, but you could play this as a boss that could be doing a lot more with their demonic powers, but because of the sin they represent, didn't. Their natural grit as a demon will still be hard for the players to beat, but not impossible. Remember: Hell doesn't just mean violence and bloodshed.
2. The sin being represented here is pride: Maybe the demon is so caught up in their own pride that something to harm their perfect version of themselves (A character landing a hit, etc), would significantly weaken them, because they have lost a bit of what they represent.
I'm not super knowledgeable on all of the sins and demons and all that stuff, but these could just be some ideas.
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Hello! First time DM with a few sessions under my belt. This campaign is my first and it’s home brewed (because I like driving myself crazy XD)
I’m having a bit of conundrum with a few parts of the process.
Namely:
1. Setting up a shop.
2. The final boss battle.
Context:
so in my story, Heaven and hell have had their final battle and Hell won. So the world (except one island) turned into a hellish place with 7 continents (each representing a different sin).
Shop Problem:
Currently my group is going to Lust onboard an airship. On that airship, an NPC friend of theirs named Mako is going to set up a shop for them.
Now the world is in ruins, there's not very much by way of resources/gold. So how do I make a shop that reflects the restrictive nature of the narrative but still offers them some fun toys! Items and prices would be great or at bare minimum tell me how you set up a shop.
Boss Battle Problem:
Okay so basically, the place they're traveling to is called Lanercost. It’s actually one of the few functional societies left in the world and relishes in debauchery, adultery, etc.
In the story so far, a demon agent will capture Mako and delivers him to the Demon Exarch who rules there. There are 7 demon exarchs, each one representing a sin and each one ruling a different continent they make in their image with Pride being the BBEG.
I basically have figured out the ways the group (3 level 3s, with a bard, ranger and rogue) could get into the lair of the demon exarch who rules there. It’s named In’nassi of Red Pedals, a demon who takes on the appearance of whatever the observer finds the most sexually attractive.
So my biggest problem is, these demons exarchs have been around since the dawn of time. How in the world are 3 level 3’s going to have a chance against In’nassi?
I have a couple ideas but nothing fleshed to conclusion.
So one idea I’m toying with is each exarch is as much a slave to their sins as they are their masters. But I don’t want each encounter with an exarch to end without a fight. So ideally I’d like a solution that involves a battle and one that doesn’t include one and leave it up to the players how they do it.
Thanks for your help!
You've...set yourself up with some interesting problems.
1. The Shop: You can literally rationalize anything you'd like. Who does this NPC typically sell to, and what can they afford to pay? How does he get his merchandise? So, in a logical world, things that people would really want sell for high prices. Your particular world setup is already far flung from typical. Also sometimes there's a disconnect between how one person or group values something vs how others value it. Weapons might be really common (or highly valued) on wrath, but either rare or worthless on sloth. (I'm guessing at your sins...) So if something cool literally falls into the merchant's lap, he can justify selling it at under cost. Also, you can't make a living selling Lamborghinis in poor neighborhoods. So, if he's on an airship selling to people on the airship, it makes no sense for him to be sitting on merchandise that no one can afford to buy. That said, if you want an aspirational item for the pcs to work towards buying, then you can justify that too. Honestly, I wouldn't over-analyze it. Just plan out some things in advance, price them appropriately so that the PCs have to pick and choose what they really want, and move on from there. The fun of shopping is choices, so make sure you create things that the players might want, but at prices that they can't afford to buy everything at once. You could even create a table of availability if you want to randomize things.
2. As far as the demon lords: Unless every island is ruled by violence, there's no particular reason to think that the demon of lust would be a powerful combatant. It's more likely to be a powerful manipulator, able to charm anyone or anything to do its bidding. To this end, the party could quest to find an artifact that allows them to resist its powers, thus making the combat possible. Or, the Exarchs' powers might be tied to an artifact or demonic mechanism, and the PCs could find a way to destroy that instead of engaging in combat with the Demon itself. So yeah, that's my advice: Either make the demons appropriately challenging for whatever level the PCs happen to be, or use a MacGuffin to allow the PCs to avoid fighting them/reduce their power.
I hope that helps. Remember not to overthink it. Unless your players are consistently rolling their eyes at you or complaining about logical inconsistencies, they will probably just accept the reality you present to them. Some of the demon lords are tougher than others, the merchant happens to have these items at these prices, and they can concentrate on what they'd like to do next.
Hi Nodrogbob,
That is very helpful! Overtinking is a bit of a problem I have haha!
1. Mako tends to sell to other survivors. I've had it thus far he finds his merchandise when the other characters are off the ship having their adventures and he goes out scouting for them. He's a former gladiator so he's no slouch on his own.
I really like the idea of adjusting the prices based on location! That does make a lot of sense!
2. Again, very helpful advice! I've made the demon hierarchy to be one of kind of overpowering, backstabbing and manipulation. So it would make sense to have each ascend to power in different ways, (wrath could be brute force, lust manipulation, etc.).
What you said about artifacts gave me a pretty good idea! This lair they infiltrate could have been a monastery devoted to some god/goddess of chastity, that was corrupted once the demons took over out of spite. In the depths they find some artifacts that helps them against In'nassi.
Thanks a lot!
if Mako happened to have a hobby of leathercrafting, blacksmithing, or potion making it wouldn't be hard to figure out what to trade. just bring in raw materials and, even better, there'll be new things in the shop later based on that. since they're a former gladiator, maybe they've picked up old tricks, charms or superstitions that they swear keep people alive in tough situations. all they need are some ox grease, plump rat tails, crushed beetles, sucubus fingernails, ogre bile... are you writing this down?? this charm is guaranteed to keep away crocodiles! unless it's alligators. (etc etc.)
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Regarding what they can do to the demon overlord, I would recommend trying to set it up that they can impress him. I am assuming that their goal is to overthrow the hellish rulers and bring balance to the world, so when you bear in mind that the demons will always end up fighting against one another for power, they may well seek to use a resourceful party to fight one another. For example, the demon lord of lust may seek to have the party do some work for him to weaken the demon lord of sloth. Giving them a regular continent-hopping experience as they play the demon lords off against one another until they are weak enough for the last remnants of heavens to strike back at them. Demons are often portrayed as closed-sighted, where they set an aim and hyperfocus on it. If they all want what each other have, then the party could be "used" whilst actually chipping away at their defences and power.
In short - the demon exarch will see them overcoming some obstacles and enemies and then proposition that they help him to defeat someone else who they plan on killing anyway.
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Hi Rumloverum, I really like that idea, plus it's very befitting of Mako's character to have some crazy ointments of varying utility, being the comic relief in the story! Thanks!
Hi ThorukDuckSlayer,
That Is a very good idea! I had been musing with the idea of making the demon's relationship with each other very Game-of-Thrones-esque! Thanks!
Hey! Just wanted to add on.
You mentioned that the BBEG would be pride, right? Pride doesn't mean that they have to be great at fighting- it just means that the BBEG will have had millions of years to practice being overly proud. This opens itself up to some interesting ways to beat the boss:
1. They don't have to be trained in fighting: It could just be some demon that's spent it's life admiring itself it a mirror and can't fight. Maybe it has some infernal powers because of it's nature as a demon, but you could play this as a boss that could be doing a lot more with their demonic powers, but because of the sin they represent, didn't. Their natural grit as a demon will still be hard for the players to beat, but not impossible. Remember: Hell doesn't just mean violence and bloodshed.
2. The sin being represented here is pride: Maybe the demon is so caught up in their own pride that something to harm their perfect version of themselves (A character landing a hit, etc), would significantly weaken them, because they have lost a bit of what they represent.
I'm not super knowledgeable on all of the sins and demons and all that stuff, but these could just be some ideas.