A little background: I have a player who has a cloak of Invisibility and another player who has a cloak of displacement. In combat, our wizard turned invisible and misty stepped. An enemy was not that far from him, so I played the rules as written-
An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have advantage.
Going off of the rule that says he can still be detected by noise it makes, I attacked and rolled at disadvantage (still missed). The argument came with the part that says, "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense". Long story short, I still played it rules as written. After the game, the player told me that he thought it was unfair that a rare magic item is better than a legendary one (talking about the cloak of displacement). The argument he made is that there should be some kind of perception check to spot an invisable creature. To be honest, it just sounds like a lot more work on my end (and as a DM, I already have enough to juggle around). But I am curious about how you all run invisibility in combat. Do you play rules as written or do you have a specific homebrew that you use?
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‘A’OHE PU’U KI’EKI’E KE HO’A’O ‘IA E PI’I – (No cliff is so tall it cannot be climbed.)
If the player says that they are actively trying to remain quiet then I would allow them a stealth check to remain undetected. If they do not, then I would use their passive stealth to determine if they naturally are quieter than the other creatures perception.
As a rule, if someone does not state that they are sneaking, then they are walking - without undue noise - from one place to another. If there is a loudish noise (like a whistling kettle) then it will mask their movement easily enough.
As I read RAW, the way it work is that you know the location of an invisible target unless (a) they successfully hide, and (b) they haven't done anything that breaks stealth (most things that break stealth also break invisibility unless improved, so that rarely comes up).
In combat, in addition to disadvantage, any ability that targets a creature you can see cannot target an invisible creature. That makes an invisible creature immune to a quite large number of spells and abilities.
I think the cloak of invisibility is one of magic items that's exponentially more useful outside of combat than it is inside combat. Sure in combat unless you're really trying to sneak it only amounts to disadvantage on attacks, but given all you can get away with outside of combat for roleplay and exploration, that's still a pretty good item.
The difference is just that the cloak of displacement was made to use in combat but really has few uses outside of it. The cloak of invisibility can potentially bypass combat altogether.
I run it as predator invisibility, you can't really be seen but people can tell where you are. It allows you to hide without cover, but doesn't give you the benefits of hiding unless you actually do.
I play it as written and as explained by the Dev. Any creature's location is known unless it's also successfully hidden, it is basically what differentiate being invisible or otherwise unseen from also being hidden as well. So in this scenario, i would have rule like you did.
DM can rule differently but being hidden is the by the book way to conceal yourself as per the Devs. If an invisible creature wants to conceal its position, he just have to take the Hide action. Otherwise the creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves. Taking the Hide action will provide a score to contest against Passive Perception of others otherwise it would be undetectable.
The thing to remember is that Hide is not passive effect, it's an action. Being invisible or heavily obscured doesn't make you automatically hidden, it allows you to try to hide, where you otherwise couldn't by being visible. It's the only benefit after you've become unseen hiding grant, conceal your position. Not only hiding is the only way RAW to conceal your position, its also RAI. Being heavily obscured or invisible doesn't conceal one's position or automatically make you hidden. It requires a seperate check (which usually takes an action)
@wax_eagle can you target a creature who is obscured but not hidden? More precisely, is hidden the only way to conceal position?
@JeremyECrawford Being hidden is the by-the-book way to conceal your position. The DM may decide that other methods can also conceal it.
@fritomuncher My PC uses the invisibility spell, does he auto hide or do I still need to take the hide action to not be targeted?
@JeremyECrawford The invisibility spell doesn't automatically hide you; you still make noise.
@quadhund But is the invisible person considered hidden as a result of casting invisibility?
@JeremyECrawford Invisible = unseen. Hidden = unseen and unheard.
Also from the Sage Advice Compendium:
If I’m invisible and I become visible when I shoot an arrow at a target, does hiding again require an action? Without a special ability, hiding in combat requires the Hide action.
It still requires some interpretation, as far as I am concerned. It is because of the use of the phrase "The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves." This leaves multiple cases open for interpretation. In the OP, turn invisble then misty step. How does Misty Step generate any noise at the arrival point? If the player literally just stands there, about the only thing you might hear is breathing. And it would be difficult, in a combat situation, to hear someone breathing 30' away over the din of battle. Another issue is the 'location can be detected"- does this require an action? It forces DMs to make judgement calls that players can be upset with.
It still requires some interpretation, as far as I am concerned. It is because of the use of the phrase "The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves." This leaves multiple cases open for interpretation. In the OP, turn invisble then misty step. How does Misty Step generate any noise at the arrival point? If the player literally just stands there, about the only thing you might hear is breathing. And it would be difficult, in a combat situation, to hear someone breathing 30' away over the din of battle. Another issue is the 'location can be detected"- does this require an action? It forces DMs to make judgement calls that players can be upset with.
If somebody wants to remain silent, then they need to make a Dexterity (Stealth) roll. In a combat situation, it is unlikely that anybody would be standing perfectly still.
After a Misty Step, somebody is likely to be adjusting their posture to accommodate the sudden movement.
Those are the assumptions under which 5E works - earlier versions worked differently, but were more complex for all the players to manage.
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A little background: I have a player who has a cloak of Invisibility and another player who has a cloak of displacement. In combat, our wizard turned invisible and misty stepped. An enemy was not that far from him, so I played the rules as written-
Going off of the rule that says he can still be detected by noise it makes, I attacked and rolled at disadvantage (still missed). The argument came with the part that says, "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense". Long story short, I still played it rules as written. After the game, the player told me that he thought it was unfair that a rare magic item is better than a legendary one (talking about the cloak of displacement). The argument he made is that there should be some kind of perception check to spot an invisable creature. To be honest, it just sounds like a lot more work on my end (and as a DM, I already have enough to juggle around). But I am curious about how you all run invisibility in combat. Do you play rules as written or do you have a specific homebrew that you use?
‘A’OHE PU’U KI’EKI’E KE HO’A’O ‘IA E PI’I – (No cliff is so tall it cannot be climbed.)
If the player says that they are actively trying to remain quiet then I would allow them a stealth check to remain undetected. If they do not, then I would use their passive stealth to determine if they naturally are quieter than the other creatures perception.
As a rule, if someone does not state that they are sneaking, then they are walking - without undue noise - from one place to another. If there is a loudish noise (like a whistling kettle) then it will mask their movement easily enough.
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As I read RAW, the way it work is that you know the location of an invisible target unless (a) they successfully hide, and (b) they haven't done anything that breaks stealth (most things that break stealth also break invisibility unless improved, so that rarely comes up).
In combat, in addition to disadvantage, any ability that targets a creature you can see cannot target an invisible creature. That makes an invisible creature immune to a quite large number of spells and abilities.
I think the cloak of invisibility is one of magic items that's exponentially more useful outside of combat than it is inside combat. Sure in combat unless you're really trying to sneak it only amounts to disadvantage on attacks, but given all you can get away with outside of combat for roleplay and exploration, that's still a pretty good item.
The difference is just that the cloak of displacement was made to use in combat but really has few uses outside of it. The cloak of invisibility can potentially bypass combat altogether.
I run it as predator invisibility, you can't really be seen but people can tell where you are. It allows you to hide without cover, but doesn't give you the benefits of hiding unless you actually do.
I play it as written and as explained by the Dev. Any creature's location is known unless it's also successfully hidden, it is basically what differentiate being invisible or otherwise unseen from also being hidden as well. So in this scenario, i would have rule like you did.
DM can rule differently but being hidden is the by the book way to conceal yourself as per the Devs. If an invisible creature wants to conceal its position, he just have to take the Hide action. Otherwise the creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves. Taking the Hide action will provide a score to contest against Passive Perception of others otherwise it would be undetectable.
The thing to remember is that Hide is not passive effect, it's an action. Being invisible or heavily obscured doesn't make you automatically hidden, it allows you to try to hide, where you otherwise couldn't by being visible. It's the only benefit after you've become unseen hiding grant, conceal your position. Not only hiding is the only way RAW to conceal your position, its also RAI. Being heavily obscured or invisible doesn't conceal one's position or automatically make you hidden. It requires a seperate check (which usually takes an action)
In this Dragon Talk: Sage Advice the Devs also discuss it in (33:50). There's also many tweets;
@wax_eagle can you target a creature who is obscured but not hidden? More precisely, is hidden the only way to conceal position?
@JeremyECrawford Being hidden is the by-the-book way to conceal your position. The DM may decide that other methods can also conceal it.
@fritomuncher My PC uses the invisibility spell, does he auto hide or do I still need to take the hide action to not be targeted?
@JeremyECrawford The invisibility spell doesn't automatically hide you; you still make noise.
@quadhund But is the invisible person considered hidden as a result of casting invisibility?
@JeremyECrawford Invisible = unseen. Hidden = unseen and unheard.
Also from the Sage Advice Compendium:
If I’m invisible and I become visible when I shoot an arrow at a target, does hiding again require an action? Without a special ability, hiding in combat requires the Hide action.
It still requires some interpretation, as far as I am concerned. It is because of the use of the phrase "The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves." This leaves multiple cases open for interpretation. In the OP, turn invisble then misty step. How does Misty Step generate any noise at the arrival point? If the player literally just stands there, about the only thing you might hear is breathing. And it would be difficult, in a combat situation, to hear someone breathing 30' away over the din of battle. Another issue is the 'location can be detected"- does this require an action? It forces DMs to make judgement calls that players can be upset with.
If somebody wants to remain silent, then they need to make a Dexterity (Stealth) roll. In a combat situation, it is unlikely that anybody would be standing perfectly still.
After a Misty Step, somebody is likely to be adjusting their posture to accommodate the sudden movement.
Those are the assumptions under which 5E works - earlier versions worked differently, but were more complex for all the players to manage.