No, this isn’t me asking the community for suggestions, this is me being evil again and loving every minute of it.
Suppose you have your players in combat… again… and it’s taking that one player — or all of them! — a little too long to internally debate the usage of Fire Bolt or Acid Splash (just an example)… again. During more common encounters with low CR beasts or goblins or bandits, let them take their time. Once the party comes across a story-relevant enemy (mini boss or BBEG sighting, even), its time to really turn up the heat.
A single turn in combat lasts 6 seconds RAW. What if the BBEG really doesn’t have time to waste like that? It’s a player’s turn and suddenly the stopwatch comes out. Oh, 6 seconds and the player hasn’t done anything? Move the BBEG. Another six seconds goes by, have the BBEG attack the nearest player at disadvantage, the BBEG doesn’t really care, they can’t be bothered by such weak opponents. Put some pressure on to get players planning ahead and developing faster reactions.
Disclaimer: Obviously this may not work for every group or player, but if this intrigues you enough to give it a try, keep it fair. Apply the stopwatch to all players in that particular combat situation, even yourself as DM.
Every 6 seconds you use without finishing your turn, roll a die most closely resembling your party size, rounded up, and award a player an extra Action/ Bonus Action on their next turn, based on their seat at the table (or on your computer screen) in whichever direction; clockwise, top to bottom, etc.
This is not intended to be used for punishing an individual player. The intent is to provide a sense of urgency and danger to your sessions. How dangerous does a trap or an opponent appear when the player can simply walk away from the table and no consequences apply? Use at your own discretion, but please, remember everyone just wants to have fun.
First, you can't take the "6 Seconds" that literally. In reality, all characters would be reacting and preparing actions in real time. A real fight wouldn't work under a "turn" ruleset procedure. These are game mechanics and players/DMs should recognize that.
A character may make a maneuver that causes the next character in turn to adjust their planned move. And players need time to review and verify the total ruleset of their action. Not every feat, feature, or spell is written as concise and clear as the game wants. Again, it is a game.
With that said, I do like your approach of putting a running clock on the players. I wouldn't structure it to give the BBEG additional action economy. That is not fair.
I would use a professional sport's draft rule. Set a time and if you fail to act, the next participant goes on the clock and has priority. So if a player can't decide in a minute, you move to next in the initiative order. Prioritize the new character's minute to act and then go ask the last player if they have a call...if they don't respond then put the next player on the clock. Only difference is if the next round starts the player loses their turn if they don't declare an action.
The rule I often play with is the DM will adjudicate based on questions and discussions; but ultimately will give a warning (say 20 seconds) and if you don't respond the rule is "Player takes the Dodge Action" and initiative moves on. I think this makes the most sense in many way. The previous option allows a player to choose to "Pass" their action to a later movement in the round (so that can be a strategy). Because of that, I prefer the "Player takes the Dodge Action". And players should be allowed to call out the DM (maybe select one a the table who runs a watch and gives the DM a warning if they are not describing an action by a certain time mark) and the BBEG takes the Dodge as well.
Generally speaking I’ve come to allow a little under 2 minutes to each player since sometimes their actions really tie into or create party plans. However, most players need less than 60 seconds (if that), especially as they should be thinking about their turn while watching everyone else’s. It should be noted that I only play online now and I really can’t even remember what it was like to play in person. I like the idea of defaulting to the Dodge action by the way.
I myself view legendary actions as something similar to the extra BBEG moves. They represent that extra bit of awesomeness (or nastiness) that higher level creatures can often have. And one of my DMs has a default action rule that you take if you can’t decide in a reasonable time, like a fighter’s melee attack or a caster’s cantrip, etc.
I do recognize the 6 second rule as a game mechanic, that’s why I didn’t mention something along the lines of:
“Okay players, I’m starting a stopwatch, yell every action and movement you take all at the same time and after 6 seconds yell your next action and movement. Don’t worry, I’ll track it all while I think up and yell what your opponent is doing.”
That’s just chaos. It was implicitly understood as being a mechanic, first by being mentioned as RAW, and also as the example I did give still focused on a single player’s turn. Not skipping or ending their turn after 6 seconds, just adding events occurring every 6 seconds.
The idea I put forward for the BBEG to have a movement or action every 6 live seconds was just suggestion of what a DM could do after the 6 seconds pass, as there are dozens of options there, such as environmental hazards changing the battlefield — a wildfire in a forest would continue to spread, for example, 1d4 spaces every 20-30 seconds. Or perhaps an NPC the players are protecting tries to flee from the area in a panic, moving 1d6 spaces every 6 seconds.
The core of the idea is to shorten time spent in combat, if a DM wants that for a session, or the players mention combat taking too long, and providing examples and suggestions, not setting anything into stone or trying to make the idea become RAW.
We all get what your trying to do, but its been debated before and much like this thread it always comes out as 'that just doesn't fun' ... I don't think many people would find that fun.
Don't do that to your players.
I often think the combat is dragging and too slow, but find when I ask the table they don't. I think as a DM I have expectations on how far they'll get in the session and the players don't, so they more likely to enjoy the combat despite its time investment. So, evaluate if you have an actual problem or just a perceived problem, if its actual the whole table feels it and will work together to fix it constructively. Best advice I ever got for DM-ing is out--of-game problems have out-of-game solutions, in-game ... in-game solutions.
Throwing an in-game solution to the out-0f-game problem of players taking too long is a bad idea IMHO.
If someone regularly takes an inordinate amount of time (my elementary school age players in my case) I flip an hourglass timer and say when the sand runs out, they lose their turn. It is a 60 second hourglass. It makes the combat more stressful (read realistic) and moves the game along when playing with indecisive 10 year olds. Everyone can see the sand draining away and it forces them to make a decision. No one has lost a turn yet but it does help us get through the game.
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
My biggest thing I find players not doing is simple: Some people think it's rude to be thinking about what they want to do during someone else's turn, like they need to be giving the current turn's player their full attention to have a moment in the spotlight, and then once it gets back to them, THEN they look at the situation, look at the board, look at their abilities and think, "Hmmm... what should I dooooo...."
If this sounds like you-- no shade. It's great that you want to be polite, BUT, I am giving you permission to plan your turn ahead. You'll actually find that you still need to pay just as much attention as situations change and unfold ahead of you, and then you're not taking up undue time and causing the game to drag, challenging the group's focus and interest.
I think certain skills or spells will take longer that a minute to resolve. Not just because the player is slow but because actions, dice rolls, saves, additional attacks and their results take time. They don't happen all the time but you are unnecessarily punishing PCs that have multiple attacks or actions. A Fighter with 2 or more swings is going to take longer to finish their turn than a Wizard who just casts a single spell.
The other thing to consider is that the GM oftentimes needs to perform saves or reactions or movement due to PC actions. Will the sands stop while the GM is performing these things during the PCs turn?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I think certain skills or spells will take longer that a minute to resolve. Not just because the player is slow but because actions, dice rolls, saves, additional attacks and their results take time. They don't happen all the time but you are unnecessarily punishing PCs that have multiple attacks or actions. A Fighter with 2 or more swings is going to take longer to finish their turn than a Wizard who just casts a single spell.
Resolve, yes, but decide on an action to take, no.
There's a difference between saying "I cast Sleet Storm on the group of bandits" and then taking a minute or two for everyone to make their dexterity saves, versus spending two minutes deciding that's what you're going to do.
Our DM and myself when DMing give a thirty second time limit to figure out what to do in combat. We routinely run six to eight players and it's incredibly frustrating to have to wait half an hour between turns if everyone is spending three minutes deciding what they want to do.
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No, this isn’t me asking the community for suggestions, this is me being evil again and loving every minute of it.
Suppose you have your players in combat… again… and it’s taking that one player — or all of them! — a little too long to internally debate the usage of Fire Bolt or Acid Splash (just an example)… again. During more common encounters with low CR beasts or goblins or bandits, let them take their time. Once the party comes across a story-relevant enemy (mini boss or BBEG sighting, even), its time to really turn up the heat.
A single turn in combat lasts 6 seconds RAW. What if the BBEG really doesn’t have time to waste like that? It’s a player’s turn and suddenly the stopwatch comes out. Oh, 6 seconds and the player hasn’t done anything? Move the BBEG. Another six seconds goes by, have the BBEG attack the nearest player at disadvantage, the BBEG doesn’t really care, they can’t be bothered by such weak opponents. Put some pressure on to get players planning ahead and developing faster reactions.
Disclaimer: Obviously this may not work for every group or player, but if this intrigues you enough to give it a try, keep it fair. Apply the stopwatch to all players in that particular combat situation, even yourself as DM.
Every 6 seconds you use without finishing your turn, roll a die most closely resembling your party size, rounded up, and award a player an extra Action/ Bonus Action on their next turn, based on their seat at the table (or on your computer screen) in whichever direction; clockwise, top to bottom, etc.
This is not intended to be used for punishing an individual player. The intent is to provide a sense of urgency and danger to your sessions. How dangerous does a trap or an opponent appear when the player can simply walk away from the table and no consequences apply? Use at your own discretion, but please, remember everyone just wants to have fun.
First, you can't take the "6 Seconds" that literally. In reality, all characters would be reacting and preparing actions in real time. A real fight wouldn't work under a "turn" ruleset procedure. These are game mechanics and players/DMs should recognize that.
A character may make a maneuver that causes the next character in turn to adjust their planned move. And players need time to review and verify the total ruleset of their action. Not every feat, feature, or spell is written as concise and clear as the game wants. Again, it is a game.
With that said, I do like your approach of putting a running clock on the players. I wouldn't structure it to give the BBEG additional action economy. That is not fair.
I would use a professional sport's draft rule. Set a time and if you fail to act, the next participant goes on the clock and has priority. So if a player can't decide in a minute, you move to next in the initiative order. Prioritize the new character's minute to act and then go ask the last player if they have a call...if they don't respond then put the next player on the clock. Only difference is if the next round starts the player loses their turn if they don't declare an action.
The rule I often play with is the DM will adjudicate based on questions and discussions; but ultimately will give a warning (say 20 seconds) and if you don't respond the rule is "Player takes the Dodge Action" and initiative moves on. I think this makes the most sense in many way. The previous option allows a player to choose to "Pass" their action to a later movement in the round (so that can be a strategy). Because of that, I prefer the "Player takes the Dodge Action". And players should be allowed to call out the DM (maybe select one a the table who runs a watch and gives the DM a warning if they are not describing an action by a certain time mark) and the BBEG takes the Dodge as well.
Generally speaking I’ve come to allow a little under 2 minutes to each player since sometimes their actions really tie into or create party plans. However, most players need less than 60 seconds (if that), especially as they should be thinking about their turn while watching everyone else’s. It should be noted that I only play online now and I really can’t even remember what it was like to play in person. I like the idea of defaulting to the Dodge action by the way.
I myself view legendary actions as something similar to the extra BBEG moves. They represent that extra bit of awesomeness (or nastiness) that higher level creatures can often have. And one of my DMs has a default action rule that you take if you can’t decide in a reasonable time, like a fighter’s melee attack or a caster’s cantrip, etc.
I do recognize the 6 second rule as a game mechanic, that’s why I didn’t mention something along the lines of:
“Okay players, I’m starting a stopwatch, yell every action and movement you take all at the same time and after 6 seconds yell your next action and movement. Don’t worry, I’ll track it all while I think up and yell what your opponent is doing.”
That’s just chaos. It was implicitly understood as being a mechanic, first by being mentioned as RAW, and also as the example I did give still focused on a single player’s turn. Not skipping or ending their turn after 6 seconds, just adding events occurring every 6 seconds.
The idea I put forward for the BBEG to have a movement or action every 6 live seconds was just suggestion of what a DM could do after the 6 seconds pass, as there are dozens of options there, such as environmental hazards changing the battlefield — a wildfire in a forest would continue to spread, for example, 1d4 spaces every 20-30 seconds. Or perhaps an NPC the players are protecting tries to flee from the area in a panic, moving 1d6 spaces every 6 seconds.
The core of the idea is to shorten time spent in combat, if a DM wants that for a session, or the players mention combat taking too long, and providing examples and suggestions, not setting anything into stone or trying to make the idea become RAW.
As I said, everyone is there to have fun.
We all get what your trying to do, but its been debated before and much like this thread it always comes out as 'that just doesn't fun' ... I don't think many people would find that fun.
Don't do that to your players.
I often think the combat is dragging and too slow, but find when I ask the table they don't. I think as a DM I have expectations on how far they'll get in the session and the players don't, so they more likely to enjoy the combat despite its time investment. So, evaluate if you have an actual problem or just a perceived problem, if its actual the whole table feels it and will work together to fix it constructively. Best advice I ever got for DM-ing is out--of-game problems have out-of-game solutions, in-game ... in-game solutions.
Throwing an in-game solution to the out-0f-game problem of players taking too long is a bad idea IMHO.
I think it's entertaining. Just to bring forward a different opinion.
I'd talk with my players before I ever did it because that's just what a good DM does.
If someone regularly takes an inordinate amount of time (my elementary school age players in my case) I flip an hourglass timer and say when the sand runs out, they lose their turn. It is a 60 second hourglass. It makes the combat more stressful (read realistic) and moves the game along when playing with indecisive 10 year olds. Everyone can see the sand draining away and it forces them to make a decision. No one has lost a turn yet but it does help us get through the game.
Velstitzen
I am a 40 something year old physician who DMs for a group of 40 something year old doctors. We play a hybrid game, mostly based on 2nd edition rules with some homebrew and 5E components.
Thank you for the tips, my group is SO SLOW, ill try some out.
My biggest thing I find players not doing is simple: Some people think it's rude to be thinking about what they want to do during someone else's turn, like they need to be giving the current turn's player their full attention to have a moment in the spotlight, and then once it gets back to them, THEN they look at the situation, look at the board, look at their abilities and think, "Hmmm... what should I dooooo...."
If this sounds like you-- no shade. It's great that you want to be polite, BUT, I am giving you permission to plan your turn ahead. You'll actually find that you still need to pay just as much attention as situations change and unfold ahead of you, and then you're not taking up undue time and causing the game to drag, challenging the group's focus and interest.
/endrant
I think certain skills or spells will take longer that a minute to resolve. Not just because the player is slow but because actions, dice rolls, saves, additional attacks and their results take time. They don't happen all the time but you are unnecessarily punishing PCs that have multiple attacks or actions. A Fighter with 2 or more swings is going to take longer to finish their turn than a Wizard who just casts a single spell.
The other thing to consider is that the GM oftentimes needs to perform saves or reactions or movement due to PC actions. Will the sands stop while the GM is performing these things during the PCs turn?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Resolve, yes, but decide on an action to take, no.
There's a difference between saying "I cast Sleet Storm on the group of bandits" and then taking a minute or two for everyone to make their dexterity saves, versus spending two minutes deciding that's what you're going to do.
Our DM and myself when DMing give a thirty second time limit to figure out what to do in combat. We routinely run six to eight players and it's incredibly frustrating to have to wait half an hour between turns if everyone is spending three minutes deciding what they want to do.