so i've seen alot about paid dming how does that even work? Like does a lower price mean a less experianced dm is there a minimum bar(must have all resources bookmarked ect)

I'm a new player and a new dm i'm learning both sides as i go so i'm flicking from page to page in 1 to 2 hour adventures i dread to think how hard it must be to have hundreds of pages to trawl through but to be paid and therefore have expectations wow that must be tough

I mean I was a professional guitarist for a year and i taught for a bit too bigger cities you had no chance of drumming up buisness unless you had a great voice or grest finger style or a unique act but small towns just loved music  and teaching i found adults gave up if they struggled with the first lick or chord but kids would practice the same 4 to 10 notes time again

My point is i bet paid dming is similar you'll find an auidence as long as you have the skills

I could never imagine doing dnd paid not even as a side hustle

Any pro dms here? I'd love your stories 

The last time I checked, most of the Roll20 looking for group posts are pay to play games. 

It works because the DM puts up an advertisement and lists the cost to play. People pay the cost and play. If they don't like the DM's performance then they don't pay a second time. They repeat the trial until they find a DM they like and pay that DM to continue to play with them. 

If you have the skills you can make money at pretty much anything. Critical Role became the top money maker on Twitch by playing D&D 5e professionally. But they're all experienced improvisors and actors so they make it look easy. 

Quote from Rathkryn >>

The last time I checked, most of the Roll20 looking for group posts are pay to play games. 

It works because the DM puts up an advertisement and lists the cost to play. People pay the cost and play. If they don't like the DM's performance then they don't pay a second time. They repeat the trial until they find a DM they like and pay that DM to continue to play with them. 

If you have the skills you can make money at pretty much anything. Critical Role became the top money maker on Twitch by playing D&D 5e professionally. But they're all experienced improvisors and actors so they make it look easy. 

 hm on the improv side yes experiance there can help your rp but you still need the dm skills like if you miss a line or jump ahead as an actor you just carry on or get back on track as a dm you need to ijprov yes but it still needs a long term plan e.g players kill future quest give who was integral to side quest that grants a great item you want players too still do this .. Improv but plan

I'd take creative jobs over my actual job tbh but it's a gig economy and you live pahday to payday without a gaurentee of pay 

I get many do turn gigged work into a carrer but it's very tough and even as a side hustle i've found reselling better(albeit way less fun)

I've done pay to play, and I've run "open" games (where anyone could wander in at any time and just join in, with no ability to kick them out).

I can't speak to "if it costs more is it better" because as an industry, it isn't even close to that point yet. Price is not a measure of value.

But neither is degree of experience -- I've been playing 40 years and there are folks who I think are better Dms than I am that have played less than 3. But I admit that's *extremely* rare, lol.

What I think matters is play style, personality, and general experience with players. The more people they have Dm'd for, the broader their experience, and most of that can be gained by doing a lot of it over time.

What I don't like is the "pay up front, no refunds" kind of stuff. I may understand it (most pay to play are folks using the money to pay for their subscriptions to VTTs or books or tools to game with, and not to make money as a hobby or business), but I would rather operate more openly because some times you can't tell if you are going to enjoy their game until after you've had a session.

It does require that you be prepared, that you know your material so well you barely have to look at it, and that you are able to handle a wide vareity of character play styles and goals.

But...

like my "home group", it can be incredibly fun and lead to some great memories, as well as repeat customers.

I think for paid dnd having stats off by heart would help

I think ienjoy being dm because it's the first acting i've done since 2009 and i get to be the majory of the cast plus dm gets to roll way more dice and to carve a story

I tell you who i envy workbased dnd groups my fellow staff are more into gossiping lol

Paid DMing, like any hobby which has the potential to become a job, comes with a huge warning sign. I used to love tech, then became a IT consultant. Used to love acting, then went professional. If things go wrong, they can go very wrong and you can even lose the love of the hobby. So for anyone considering paid DMing, proceed with caution...it holds big downsides.

As to the how it works...there's so few DMs compared to players. Frankly, that's on WotC and their disasterously bad provision for supporting DMs and their development. Like all systems D&D seems complex. Fact is though you don't need to have anything more than access to the books and an ability to plan and improvise. I've done three events where I was paid to DM. It went well enough, but I got the same feeling I had when moving from Amateur acting to Professional. Like all of these things you either need to commit to it or not. The economics don't make sense any other way. As an example you'd need to run three games a week with six players each paying £11 every week without fail in order to earn around £10000. With that level of outlay players will have expectations. They'll expect the process to be seemless, to be professional. They'll expect particular things (and won't always let you know what they expect). One of the events I was paid for was specifically theatre of the mind and was advertised as such...one of the players who signed up then went on to complain that there were no battlemaps. So I can't imagine that there are hard and fast rules that you can follow in order to be successful. It'll be finding a blueprint that works for you. It's because of this I'd disagree with AEDorsay here adding a counterpoint. Much like a stage show or a film, or what not paying up front is kinda important after a free taster session. You don't always know if you'll enjoy the stage show you're walking into after all, why should other entertainment forms be different (I suspect this is the argument used). 

After the events I did try some paid games as a player...just to experience it for myself. I gotta be clear...of the six games I tried with different DMs...one was worth my time. Three of the DMs should never be allowed to run groups, and one had a brand new DM trying to charge on their first time playing. Maybe I got a bum deal...who knows. My impression having spoken to others though is that it's not an uncommon experience. Like so much out there, chancers exist. People who recognise a shortage of something and will exploit it.

That's the key thing for me, the big takeaway. Paid DMs exist because there aren't enough being supported into the role. Sadly that doesn't seem to bother those who have sterwardship of such a beloved game. The various subscriptions that people maintain do get costly. For myself and my twenty odd players (across four groups) I pay for Inkarnate, Owlbear Rodeo, Heroforge, D&D Beyond, Discord, and Chronica. That's around £200 per year. I'm really fortunate though in that my players offered to donate. Which was totally unexpected and entirely lovely of them. I turned round and used that money to buy more sourcebooks so that we could all access extar content.

I can see why people do ask to be paid, after all the amount of prep a good homebrewer puts into their worlds and adventures is a lot. Plus the shortage of DMs can sometimes mean it's shooting fish in a barrel. Personally, I enjoy the hobby and don't want to turn it into a job.

The key issue for paid DMing is that it's very hard to make a viable living wage as a DM, it's really more often a side hustle, and people often don't pay a lot of attention to whether a side job is actually an efficient use of time. A more formal system with solid standards for what quality of service justifies a given price is possible, but would likely have a side effect of greatly increasing prices because it would be based on someone actually doing the math.

Paid vs non-paid is much a matter of preference still.  There are enough free games to where it isn't strictly required.

where the paid DM'ing from my vantage point has worked better is it has led to reduced "ghosting" situations.  the Dm's who offer it as more of a side hussle or part time job don't want to lose their reputation by bailing on a group paying to play campaigns they run.  Might lose people to the feeling of "this wasn't what i felt was advertised, i'll pass", but fewer DM's bailing and more players bailing issues in this scope.

As noted a few posts earlier, the setup for DM's from the corporate setting is inept at best, i've just gone with finding minis somewhere, creating stats for them, and have moved on almost entirely from the books.  I dont ask for $$ per session.  Made it clear up front that i'm doing it because i enjoy the creation of worlds and writting them up.  I don't ever want them to give me money per session.  They can send me a gift card or a book down the road perhaps and i'll accept it, but anything more than that puts unnecessary stress on me to make it every week on a busy life schedule that isn't always something i can do.  I certainly wouldn't go into it new looking to be paid, not enough first time DM's have enough understanding to pull it off (there are probably some rare folk that can, but i'm not one of them).  I could go into great lengths as to how things could be made so much easier for me and likely others, but thats not the point of the post so i'll save my soap box for another time

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

The key issue for paid DMing is that it's very hard to make a viable living wage as a DM, it's really more often a side hustle, and people often don't pay a lot of attention to whether a side job is actually an efficient use of time. A more formal system with solid standards for what quality of service justifies a given price is possible, but would likely have a side effect of greatly increasing prices because it would be based on someone actually doing the math.

 
yeah, if I tried it as a side hustle in the “actually earn decent spending money” manner, my cost per four hour session would likely be in the range of 75 per person, with a single optional hour during the week, and 50 for unscheduled mid-period 1 on 1s. If I did the stuff I do with my regulars (custom minis and figurines, dinner packs, silly giveaways, specialty dice), it could easily cap out at 250 a person, and none of that counts campaign or setting development time.

since I get paid about 85 an hour to do game design analysis, and 3500 a month for setting design, it still wouldn’t be the normal “profitable”, but I would also be recycling existing work in many cases, so meh.

I may know my worth, but I don’t know the larger market so no clue what it could bear, and I am disinclined to think my prices would be in line.

I've played with 5 pay to play DMs, all of whom had decent reputations. All were not worth the money. I didn't feel I was getting value for money in any sense of the word. Most of them were seemed relatively new at the job (which was strange seeing the testimonials some of them had) and hadn't seemed to have bothered to practise with the technology they were using on non-paying groups first. The other one (a well know youtuber) didn't gel with me that well as he was a "I'm being paid to tell a story goddammit and I'm going to tell it!" style DM.

So not a fan and I'm pretty sure that none of the them actually made enough money to live on. Still I suppose if you think market forces are a thing then the bad ones will eventually be filtered out and we'll be left with the good ones that are worth the money. Maybe I'll give it another try in a few years.

Quote from martintheactor >>

Paid DMing, like any hobby which has the potential to become a job, comes with a huge warning sign. I used to love tech, then became a IT consultant. Used to love acting, then went professional. If things go wrong, they can go very wrong and you can even lose the love of the hobby. So for anyone considering paid DMing, proceed with caution...it holds big downsides.

 I'd love to get paid for acting butA i wouldnt want any sort of fame so that may limit the work i'd do and B its a gig economy

I used to love playing guitar but i went professional and to supporrt my self in this busking was the key i had 3 negitive experiances that put me off 1. I set up in a new spot and was moved on as it was private land but they went about it all wrong and watched me set up and do a third of a set 2. A druggie chased me forcing me to move to a worse pitch and 3. I tried a big city and found out being good doesn't cut it you need to be unique to get paid 

I may busk again as a side hustle one day but never again as a guitarist/vocalist perhaps on keyboard doing tv themes and classical music

Point being i get why you warn people

Yeah as a new dm my self thats a bad move to go paid right awaylike tonight i kpt closing books i still needed and when the adventure gave a wrong weight for a key item given we are lvl 1 pc i stumbled before i adapted it plus i missed a key skill check

Quote from Aescleal >>

I've played with 5 pay to play DMs, all of whom had decent reputations. All were not worth the money. I didn't feel I was getting value for money in any sense of the word. Most of them were seemed relatively new at the job (which was strange seeing the testimonials some of them had) and hadn't seemed to have bothered to practise with the technology they were using on non-paying groups first. The other one (a well know youtuber) didn't gel with me that well as he was a "I'm being paid to tell a story goddammit and I'm going to tell it!" style DM.

So not a fan and I'm pretty sure that none of the them actually made enough money to live on. Still I suppose if you think market forces are a thing then the bad ones will eventually be filtered out and we'll be left with the good ones that are worth the money. Maybe I'll give it another try in a few years.

Quote from Aescleal >>

I've played with 5 pay to play DMs, all of whom had decent reputations. All were not worth the money. I didn't feel I was getting value for money in any sense of the word. Most of them were seemed relatively new at the job (which was strange seeing the testimonials some of them had) and hadn't seemed to have bothered to practise with the technology they were using on non-paying groups first. The other one (a well know youtuber) didn't gel with me that well as he was a "I'm being paid to tell a story goddammit and I'm going to tell it!" style DM.

So not a fan and I'm pretty sure that none of the them actually made enough money to live on. Still I suppose if you think market forces are a thing then the bad ones will eventually be filtered out and we'll be left with the good ones that are worth the money. Maybe I'll give it another try in a few years.

 i think the matt mercer effect strike again

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

The key issue for paid DMing is that it's very hard to make a viable living wage as a DM, it's really more often a side hustle, and people often don't pay a lot of attention to whether a side job is actually an efficient use of time. A more formal system with solid standards for what quality of service justifies a given price is possible, but would likely have a side effect of greatly increasing prices because it would be based on someone actually doing the math.

 yeah if its a side hustle just for money you need now side hustles can work but for savings you need a full time thing

I (choose not to become) a paid DM/GM, because for me there are other gigs, out there, that give me a far better return for my efforts. General handyman, repair and custom work on old motorcycles, fabricating a gate for a homeowner's new fence, terracing a slope for someone's garden, . . . I'll plug along as an amateur, and expect forgiveness when I don't get it all just right for those at the table. I already have enough people in my life who expect professionalism, hours of work, and outstanding results, in exchange for their money.

(Edit)

Quote from first_rolled_a_die_in_1976 >>

I do not consider becoming a paid DM/GM, because for me there are other gigs, out there, that give me a far better return for my efforts. General handyman, repair and custom work on old motorcycles, fabricating a gate for a homeowner's new fence, terracing a slope for someone's garden, . . . I'll plug along as an amateur, and expect forgiveness when I don't get it all just right for those at the table. I already have enough people in my life who expect professionalism, hours of work, and outstanding results, in exchange for their money.

 edxactly why i gave up music a busk could generate 7.00 over a full day or 40.23 over an hour and gigs at like for like venues had a range of 10.00ph to 100.00-200.00 a night(again had i had the same talent on a less used instiment i would see better returns) these days i can flip a £50 profit on £20 worth of sought after cds or more if its vinyl

I think matt mercer has been an influence for many but critical role for me feels kind of set up to be streaming friendly and if i had a dm like matt or if my players goofed around THAT much i'd give up you need a mix of humour and go getting

Critical Role isn't paid DMing, it's streaming and the players are cast members.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Critical Role isn't paid DMing, it's streaming and the players are cast members.

 This.

Critical Role is a TV show.

It always startles me that folks don't realize that.