1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
The problem is that the force is not a creature or an object. Although maybe it is considered "in a location"....you're targeting the 5 foot square and it is in it. Maybe that thing works
Yeah, that it's only able to respond to commands is a good way to keep it in check anyway. But yeah, you can attack a location, or hit it with environmental hazards. It's immune to neither. An intelligent enemy who finds it to be a nuisance could absolutely attack it.
Because it is a shapeless force I agree with targeting the location... where you think it is.
Invisible in 5e does not mean location unknown. It just means you attack it at disadvantage unless it actually hides.... which it does not have the ability to do.
Regarding your (Pantagruel666) assessment that it cannot process conditional command which seem like the correct assessment to make in which relates an intelligence null value and a lvl1 ritual spell, the player would no longer want to use this spell ritual.
He is asking to trade being damaged by anything such as AoE for conditional assessment which i'm fine to do. At least, with all that was said, i have a better understanding how to handle the Unseen Servant
Thanks everyone
If i do a quick resume for my notes:
Unseen Servant: AC 10, 1 HP, STR 2, Cannot attack. As a bonus action, you can mentally command it to move to 15 feet and interact with an object. Performs simple task. Once completed, it waits for the next command. Will disapear if 60 feets from you
- Shapeless Force Type: It is not a Creature or an Object
- Invisible: Does not have the ability to hide and thus others could be aware of its existance Attacked with disadvantage as per normal rule Is not applying the characteristic of the Invisible spell
- Mindless: Does not have the ability to process conditional command
- Targeted by Spells: Most spell target either Object or Creature and thus would not affect the Unseen Servant Spell exception are the like of Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray and Melf’s Acid Arrow
- Attacked by weapon: Basic attack targeting a location will be able to attack the unseen servant
- Interacting with an object: Cannot require a DC check as it would be too difficult a task. Can carry an object using STR score but others could remove said object from ressource in the same manner as taking a toy from a child Can interact with environment to trigger traps if properly instructed to do something that would lead to this outcome
I'm just going to point out that the issues with the categorization of Unseen Servant and when it should take damage and whether it can set off traps are very much bones of contention re: the Echo Knight's echo and, arguably, also Bigby's Hand. This "we don't need to categorize force abilities b/c it's pure magic" argument from the devs is a pain in the neck for DMs.
an unseen servant "has AC 10, 1 hit point" but fireball only affects creatures? hey, if you want to pretend either of those should be judged by air-tight legalese, go for it. it was left up to interpretation and interpret you shall. however, 5e design values succinct natural language that gets the point across. they could have given it saving throws and immunity to psychic/poison and described it as a 'creature of force' ...and maybe they will in revised! but for now, the natural language experiment assumes everyone is being reasonable. that thing surviving a fireball doesn't seem reasonable.
at my table, the wispy thing with no immunities and clinging to existence by only a single hp would be toast if caught in the radius of destructive energies waves.
and i don't find that significant enough to mention in session zero.
fireball specifically states it affects only creatures and objects... not forces, the amount of hp is irrelevant in this case, whether 1 or 1 million the fireball (or other destructive spell that can't affect forces) simply doesn't interact with the force
A force is not a defined entity type. The statement that something is a 'force' does not prevent it from also being something else (for example, a poltergeist is essentially a roving telekinetic force, but it's also a creature). Honestly, it's just sloppy editing on the part of the authors, probably because the whole "affects creatures" vs "affects objects" biz seems to have been tacked on at the end, it has no shortage of odd special cases (for example, there's no reason wall of fire shouldn't affect objects, but it doesn't and even if you decided it did, objects don't have turns).
I've had a DM who allowed me to let my unseen servant give Goodberries to down party members. We've had a lot of fun using our unseen servant by pourring oil over creatures. Next turn, one of us would light the oil. And the unseen servant would carry a waterskin... The unseen servant would die because of the fire... The waterskin would fall over the oil... This would happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3F4c5o4J7M And we had fun and lost a lot of oil flasks and waterskins. Unseen servant is a great spell. I would allow a lot, it offers fun, even if it isn't balanced. As well, according to our DM, a creature can go through the unseen servant. I think effects such as fire, lightning, force, thunder would kill the servant. In addition, I think a creature can only kill an unseen servant if he knows he is killing an unseen servant (if a barbarian is swinging his greataxe to the air because he is a barbarian and he does stupid intimidating things (no hatred, barbarians are cool), he wouldn't kill the servant, but if he knows the servant is somewhere over there and he is effectively pointing the blade of his axe in the right direction, he would). If an archer shoots his arrow to a creature and the unseen servant is standing right in between, the unseen servant would get hit instead of the other creature, but that is coincidence. Feel free to do whatever seems the most fun in your campaign and roleplay-wise.
an unseen servant "has AC 10, 1 hit point" but fireball only affects creatures? hey, if you want to pretend either of those should be judged by air-tight legalese, go for it. it was left up to interpretation and interpret you shall. however, 5e design values succinct natural language that gets the point across. they could have given it saving throws and immunity to psychic/poison and described it as a 'creature of force' ...and maybe they will in revised! but for now, the natural language experiment assumes everyone is being reasonable. that thing surviving a fireball doesn't seem reasonable.
at my table, the wispy thing with no immunities and clinging to existence by only a single hp would be toast if caught in the radius of destructive energies waves.
and i don't find that significant enough to mention in session zero.
if I am holding a piece of paper and get hit with a fireball I might take full or half damage on a saving throw (or some other feature) but the piece of paper won't even get singed without even having to make a saving throw
if it is lying lose on the ground (not being worn or carried) it gets burned to ashes
fireball specifically states it affects only creatures and objects... not forces, the amount of hp is irrelevant in this case, whether 1 or 1 million the fireball (or other destructive spell that can't affect forces) simply doesn't interact with the force
go figure, i also have feelings about fragile pieces of paper and their interaction with magical flames. that does make it into my session zero: "hubris...you can certainly try."
...5e ignores many things out of expediency including what a target is wearing or holding. and that's fine. but, if you start talking about those things, then expect the dm to start talking about those things. about how they're on fire now. the quantum wave of superposition collapses when observed. else, why not make full cover suits of armor out of fire-proof paper? because no rule says the dm has to put up with meta gaming, that's why not.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
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As DM i don't have PC gear destroyed by AOE spells and effect or even number of hit, just assuming gears frequently get wears and tears that get repaired during rest or downtime.
I classify this in the same as personnal needs, it's background stuff that usually get no play attention. ;)
is anyone wearing this armor now suddenly naked if they survive?
someone is hit by a fireball. result? it does what it says on the label. no personal property destroyed.
someone is hit by a fireball and describes holding their spellbook up to protect their hair. result? it does what it says on the label plus the book is getting singed and maybe their hair too. no personal property destroyed.
soon thereafter, someone is engulfed in a gelatinous cube but escapes next round. did the dangling price tag fall off their new hat, a victim of acid ooze? 'yes...' or 'maybe...' are fine answers, but 'no, never!' doesn't really feel satisfactorily in the spirit of an interactive world.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
... - Invisible: Does not have the ability to hide and thus others could be aware of its existance Attacked with disadvantage as per normal rule ...
Not sure about this specific sentence.
I mean, if an Unseen Servant is a force, does that kind of energy make sound? Does it itself produce taste, sound, or smell? I don't think so.
But, I also think it is possible to deduce the presence if that energy is interacting with the environment.
Anyway, folks, sometimes I miss some spell descriptions from DnD 3e, with more details (emphasis mine) to solve some questions:
An unseen servant is an invisible, mindless, shapeless force that performs simple tasks at your command. It can run and fetch things, open unstuck doors, and hold chairs, as well as clean and mend. The servant can perform only one activity at a time, but it repeats the same activity over and over again if told to do so as long as you remain within range. It can open only normal doors, drawers, lids, and the like. It has an effective Strength score of 2 (so it can lift 20 pounds or drag 100 pounds). It can trigger traps and such, but it can exert only 20 pounds of force, which is not enough to activate certain pressure plates and other devices. It can’t perform any task that requires a skill check with a DC higher than 10 or that requires a check using a skill that can’t be used untrained. Its speed is 15 feet.
The servant cannot attack in any way; it is never allowed an attack roll. It cannot be killed, but it dissipates if it takes 6 points of damage from area attacks. (It gets no saves against attacks.) If you attempt to send it beyond the spell’s range (measured from your current position), the servant ceases to exist.
Reading the spell description properly will answer most of OPs questions.
Unseen servant is formless and mindless. Things that require contact(fog) or a mind(illusion) will not affect it. Furthermore the unseen servant can only interact with objects and the spell does not state that it can interact with creatures and so opening a players mouth to feed it a potion is not possible. Even with all of that keep in mind that getting your unseen servant to hold a potion costs a bonus action and getting it to then pour it down someone's mouth is another bonus action which will take two rounds of combat to accomplish.
Anything outside of those guidelines is basically homebrew and I struggle to think of a reason as to why you would want to kill an unseen servant.
Reading the spell description properly will answer most of OPs questions.
Unseen servant is formless and mindless. Things that require contact(fog) or a mind(illusion) will not affect it. Furthermore the unseen servant can only interact with objects and the spell does not state that it can interact with creatures and so opening a players mouth to feed it a potion is not possible. Even with all of that keep in mind that getting your unseen servant to hold a potion costs a bonus action and getting it to then pour it down someone's mouth is another bonus action which will take two rounds of combat to accomplish.
Anything outside of those guidelines is basically homebrew and I struggle to think of a reason as to why you would want to kill an unseen servant.
Making it multiple bonus actions would also effect how it poured you a glass of wine. Open wine, pour wine, bring wine, hand wine over or place on a table. RAI would be all you do is instruct it to pour and bring you a glass of wine.
The US preforms simple tasks, not exact point by point instructions like a computer.
US can perform simple tasks outside of combat. In combat everything is measured in intervals of 6 seconds and asking it to take a healing potion from you is technically an object interaction which leaves it with only 15ft of movement.
US can perform simple tasks outside of combat. In combat everything is measured in intervals of 6 seconds and asking it to take a healing potion from you is technically an object interaction which leaves it with only 15ft of movement.
Since an US only has 15' of movement in the first place I'm not sure what difference that makes. Interacting with one object on a turn is free and costs neither actions or movement. The US is not a creature so in combat it doesn't have a turn or an action.
"Once on each of your turns as a bonus action, you can mentally command the servant to move up to 15 feet and interact with an object."
In combat, the caster can use a bonus action to command the US to move up to 15' and interact with an object. Note that since bonus actions only exist in combat, this sentence is directed specifically to what you can ask an US to do in combat.
Could an US feed a healing potion to a downed character? Yes - assuming a character could do the same. All the US needs to do is use the potion bottle to open the mouth of the character and empty its contents. The only interaction the US has is with the object - the object may interact with other things and is not constrained by the spell.
Whether an US is destroyed by an AoE spell or other environmental effect is up to the DM. It has 10AC, 1hp ... but isn't explicitly a creature, or an object ... it is a structure made of invisible force and as such, it is a DM decision as to what, if anything or everything, can damage it. Giving the US both an AC and hit points implies that it can be attacked and destroyed. As such, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to decide it would be destroyed by any and all AoE or by none - up to them.
Whether an US is destroyed by an AoE spell or other environmental effect is up to the DM. It has 10AC, 1hp ... but isn't explicitly a creature, or an object ... it is a structure made of invisible force and as such, it is a DM decision as to what, if anything or everything, can damage it. Giving the US both an AC and hit points implies that it can be attacked and destroyed. As such, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to decide it would be destroyed by any and all AoE or by none - up to them.
As @Plaguescarred and many others have pointed out, the AoE spell targets creatures and possibly objects, but I believe it's plausible to think those spells should also affect this type of "thing" or entity.
My reasoning: if a spell is composed of force, it should be capable of affecting other forces in some way.
By doing that, I will also take advantage of this piece of text from DnD 3e:
... it dissipates if it takes 6 points of damage from area attacks ...
Making an Attack
1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
The problem is that the force is not a creature or an object. Although maybe it is considered "in a location"....you're targeting the 5 foot square and it is in it. Maybe that thing works
Yeah, that it's only able to respond to commands is a good way to keep it in check anyway. But yeah, you can attack a location, or hit it with environmental hazards. It's immune to neither. An intelligent enemy who finds it to be a nuisance could absolutely attack it.
Invisible in 5e does not mean location unknown. It just means you attack it at disadvantage unless it actually hides.... which it does not have the ability to do.
Regarding your (Pantagruel666) assessment that it cannot process conditional command which seem like the correct assessment to make in which relates an intelligence null value and a lvl1 ritual spell, the player would no longer want to use this spell ritual.
He is asking to trade being damaged by anything such as AoE for conditional assessment which i'm fine to do. At least, with all that was said, i have a better understanding how to handle the Unseen Servant
Thanks everyone
If i do a quick resume for my notes:
Unseen Servant:
AC 10, 1 HP, STR 2, Cannot attack.
As a bonus action, you can mentally command it to move to 15 feet and interact with an object. Performs simple task. Once completed, it waits for the next command.
Will disapear if 60 feets from you
- Shapeless Force Type: It is not a Creature or an Object
- Invisible: Does not have the ability to hide and thus others could be aware of its existance
Attacked with disadvantage as per normal rule
Is not applying the characteristic of the Invisible spell
- Mindless: Does not have the ability to process conditional command
- Targeted by Spells: Most spell target either Object or Creature and thus would not affect the Unseen Servant
Spell exception are the like of Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray and Melf’s Acid Arrow
- Attacked by weapon: Basic attack targeting a location will be able to attack the unseen servant
- Interacting with an object: Cannot require a DC check as it would be too difficult a task.
Can carry an object using STR score but others could remove said object from ressource in the same manner as taking a toy from a child
Can interact with environment to trigger traps if properly instructed to do something that would lead to this outcome
A lot of which presumes your GM allows potions to be consumed by an unconscious person in the first place.
Most of the potions require the character benefiting from it to consume it themselves. If you're unconscious, you can't drink anything.
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-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'm just going to point out that the issues with the categorization of Unseen Servant and when it should take damage and whether it can set off traps are very much bones of contention re: the Echo Knight's echo and, arguably, also Bigby's Hand. This "we don't need to categorize force abilities b/c it's pure magic" argument from the devs is a pain in the neck for DMs.
an unseen servant "has AC 10, 1 hit point" but fireball only affects creatures? hey, if you want to pretend either of those should be judged by air-tight legalese, go for it. it was left up to interpretation and interpret you shall. however, 5e design values succinct natural language that gets the point across. they could have given it saving throws and immunity to psychic/poison and described it as a 'creature of force' ...and maybe they will in revised! but for now, the natural language experiment assumes everyone is being reasonable. that thing surviving a fireball doesn't seem reasonable.
at my table, the wispy thing with no immunities and clinging to existence by only a single hp would be toast if caught in the radius of destructive energies waves.
and i don't find that significant enough to mention in session zero.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
A force is not a defined entity type. The statement that something is a 'force' does not prevent it from also being something else (for example, a poltergeist is essentially a roving telekinetic force, but it's also a creature). Honestly, it's just sloppy editing on the part of the authors, probably because the whole "affects creatures" vs "affects objects" biz seems to have been tacked on at the end, it has no shortage of odd special cases (for example, there's no reason wall of fire shouldn't affect objects, but it doesn't and even if you decided it did, objects don't have turns).
I've had a DM who allowed me to let my unseen servant give Goodberries to down party members. We've had a lot of fun using our unseen servant by pourring oil over creatures. Next turn, one of us would light the oil. And the unseen servant would carry a waterskin... The unseen servant would die because of the fire... The waterskin would fall over the oil... This would happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3F4c5o4J7M And we had fun and lost a lot of oil flasks and waterskins. Unseen servant is a great spell. I would allow a lot, it offers fun, even if it isn't balanced. As well, according to our DM, a creature can go through the unseen servant. I think effects such as fire, lightning, force, thunder would kill the servant. In addition, I think a creature can only kill an unseen servant if he knows he is killing an unseen servant (if a barbarian is swinging his greataxe to the air because he is a barbarian and he does stupid intimidating things (no hatred, barbarians are cool), he wouldn't kill the servant, but if he knows the servant is somewhere over there and he is effectively pointing the blade of his axe in the right direction, he would). If an archer shoots his arrow to a creature and the unseen servant is standing right in between, the unseen servant would get hit instead of the other creature, but that is coincidence. Feel free to do whatever seems the most fun in your campaign and roleplay-wise.
With friendly greetings
Thrør Máthẳn Márbhådh
go figure, i also have feelings about fragile pieces of paper and their interaction with magical flames. that does make it into my session zero: "hubris... you can certainly try."
...5e ignores many things out of expediency including what a target is wearing or holding. and that's fine. but, if you start talking about those things, then expect the dm to start talking about those things. about how they're on fire now. the quantum wave of superposition collapses when observed. else, why not make full cover suits of armor out of fire-proof paper? because no rule says the dm has to put up with meta gaming, that's why not.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
As DM i don't have PC gear destroyed by AOE spells and effect or even number of hit, just assuming gears frequently get wears and tears that get repaired during rest or downtime.
I classify this in the same as personnal needs, it's background stuff that usually get no play attention. ;)
someone is hit by a fireball. result? it does what it says on the label. no personal property destroyed.
someone is hit by a fireball and describes holding their spellbook up to protect their hair. result? it does what it says on the label plus the book is getting singed and maybe their hair too. no personal property destroyed.
soon thereafter, someone is engulfed in a gelatinous cube but escapes next round. did the dangling price tag fall off their new hat, a victim of acid ooze? 'yes...' or 'maybe...' are fine answers, but 'no, never!' doesn't really feel satisfactorily in the spirit of an interactive world.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Not sure about this specific sentence.
I mean, if an Unseen Servant is a force, does that kind of energy make sound? Does it itself produce taste, sound, or smell? I don't think so.
But, I also think it is possible to deduce the presence if that energy is interacting with the environment.
Anyway, folks, sometimes I miss some spell descriptions from DnD 3e, with more details (emphasis mine) to solve some questions:
Reading the spell description properly will answer most of OPs questions.
Unseen servant is formless and mindless. Things that require contact(fog) or a mind(illusion) will not affect it. Furthermore the unseen servant can only interact with objects and the spell does not state that it can interact with creatures and so opening a players mouth to feed it a potion is not possible. Even with all of that keep in mind that getting your unseen servant to hold a potion costs a bonus action and getting it to then pour it down someone's mouth is another bonus action which will take two rounds of combat to accomplish.
Anything outside of those guidelines is basically homebrew and I struggle to think of a reason as to why you would want to kill an unseen servant.
Making it multiple bonus actions would also effect how it poured you a glass of wine. Open wine, pour wine, bring wine, hand wine over or place on a table. RAI would be all you do is instruct it to pour and bring you a glass of wine.
The US preforms simple tasks, not exact point by point instructions like a computer.
US can perform simple tasks outside of combat. In combat everything is measured in intervals of 6 seconds and asking it to take a healing potion from you is technically an object interaction which leaves it with only 15ft of movement.
Since an US only has 15' of movement in the first place I'm not sure what difference that makes. Interacting with one object on a turn is free and costs neither actions or movement. The US is not a creature so in combat it doesn't have a turn or an action.
"Once on each of your turns as a bonus action, you can mentally command the servant to move up to 15 feet and interact with an object."
In combat, the caster can use a bonus action to command the US to move up to 15' and interact with an object. Note that since bonus actions only exist in combat, this sentence is directed specifically to what you can ask an US to do in combat.
Could an US feed a healing potion to a downed character? Yes - assuming a character could do the same. All the US needs to do is use the potion bottle to open the mouth of the character and empty its contents. The only interaction the US has is with the object - the object may interact with other things and is not constrained by the spell.
Whether an US is destroyed by an AoE spell or other environmental effect is up to the DM. It has 10AC, 1hp ... but isn't explicitly a creature, or an object ... it is a structure made of invisible force and as such, it is a DM decision as to what, if anything or everything, can damage it. Giving the US both an AC and hit points implies that it can be attacked and destroyed. As such, it is perfectly reasonable for a DM to decide it would be destroyed by any and all AoE or by none - up to them.
Could it ware gloves?
As @Plaguescarred and many others have pointed out, the AoE spell targets creatures and possibly objects, but I believe it's plausible to think those spells should also affect this type of "thing" or entity.
My reasoning: if a spell is composed of force, it should be capable of affecting other forces in some way.
By doing that, I will also take advantage of this piece of text from DnD 3e: