I would imagine that combat on a giant spider would be no different than it would be on a warhorse. They are both the same size, and while the issues they pose due to that size are different, the game's mechanics basically ignore the real life limitations. Which is fine: as I said earlier, despite anything your players claim to the contrary, they are not playing D&D for a realistic experience. If they wanted realism, they'd sign up for a renn fair, join a boxing gym, to take up parkour.
As for how to train it, the ways to do so are vast in the D&D setting. Some involve magic, some could be ye old "find a baby and make it think your its mama", and some could just be some ludicrous training method like establishing your dominance over the beast by defeating it in a pie eating contest. How players can tame animal companions is entirely up to the DM. Same goes for the likelihood that a tamed animal will bite the hand that feeds it.
Though, one thing that these two topics brings up in my mind is combat. The answer to the following question is "whatever the DM wants to do", but should still be thought about.
Can the spider still bite people in combat? Does it get its own turn to do so? If not, what kind of action would the player need to expend to tell the spider to bite that guy? Can the spider make reactions such as opportunity attacks? Can it make its own, or does the player have to choose whether they or their spider makes an opportunity attack?
Sam, good points, and I agree on the realism. Having a spider mount is like having a Battlecat for He-Man, or Pegasus for Hercules. It’s just cool. I guess I thought it might be a fun element though to occasionally toss an animal handling roll and pass anything but a critical fail. On a critical fail, you could make some fun things happen until the player restores dominance. Just a fun element to riding a spider.
The last consideration is how to feed it. You can’t really pull up to the tavern and strap a feed bag on. Does the local bar keep like you enough to keep a corpse or two on hand or previously wrapped by the spider? Maybe one of your drivers for adventures is to keep your mount fed? The spider likes goblin meat and the locals love you for keeping the maurading goblins down? So many fun places to go.
Lots of great insight, we ran last night and the halfling had his spider, and hilarity ensued. He is a crossbow expert so he just wants to ride it for flavor and shoot from it, he attempted combat and decided that is a poor idea as he almost got knocked off into a 60ft fall off of a wall. Requiring an athletics check or animal handling check on certain situations or if the spider took damage (It almost died as well) seemed to flow just fine and the player thought it made sense.
He quickly found out the spider can't go into any old city, the wood elves seem slightly more tolerant of it but he mostly hides it outside of the city and retrieves it when the group departs. Although he did cause quite a stir when he took it full speed throw the main drag of a village and pandemonium ensued. After the spider almost died and he almost died he pretty much gave up riding it for combat, instead sending the spider to sit upon the ceiling in an ancient ruin just to become nervous when he couldn't get the spider to return as it seemed freaked out and possibly surrounded by unknown creatures in the shadows of the 100 ft ceiling.
All in all it was a success, he did try to use a homebrew spider he googled but I put the kibosh on that because it was ridiculous and he understood.
and he's using the ranger beast master so at level 4 the spider can only move unless he uses his action to give it a command. It was pretty balanced and the real world pros and cons were quickly discovered.
1) A spider mount isn't game breaking unless the DM allows some really unusual ability because of it. Basically, it just allows the character to ride a mount that can climb a wall or ceiling.
2) I'd suggest not having any regular ability checks to stay on the mount since it is pointless. In game the character would know what is required to ride up a vertical surface or on a ceiling and whether it is safe or not. Any regular check really means that the whole process is unsafe and you're just better off telling the player No. In addition, the idea that the straps could cause regular damage is just completely bogus. Either the character can ride a spider or not ... if there is no way to build a restraint system that won't damage them then just say they can't ride one.
The DM could impost a strength requirement for actions like riding on vertical and inverted surfaces since you will need pretty substantial muscles to keep yourself steady and balanced sitting on a spider that is climbing on such surfaces. If you don't have the strength minimum then attacks could be at disadvantage since you can't hold yourself steady.
3) As the poster above mentioned, a spider has a different leg layout than a horse. For most spiders I have seen the legs would get in the way of any melee combat since they extend significantly beyond the body of the spider where the character is riding. I'd probably rule that you need a reach or ranged weapon to engage in combat while riding a spider.
Anyway, if you feel it breaks the game somehow ... don't allow a spider mount. If it doesn't then impose some reasonable restrictions that make some sense based on the creature and usage and allow the player to be imaginative in the use of the mount.
My point of view is the DM should try to make player ideas work, while being reasonable. As some have said, giant spiders wouldn't be welcome in civilized cities, towns or villages. That's one drawback. Second, riding a spider should require a saddle with straps, which would require time to don and doff, much like armor or a shield. That's a second drawback.
As for me, I would think that holding a riding position when the spider is climbing a vertical surface would require some pretty good core strength. If my player wanted to do something like shoot, swing or cast while in this position, I would first have them roll a strength check with a DC of 15 (or so). On a fail they have a disadvantage on their action.
If the spider is upside down, there's much less effort to maintain a riding position, but it can be disorienting and the blood will tend to rush to your head. In this situation I would replace the strength check with a constitution check, with the same disadvantage on action if it fails.
Then you can let all the benefits and thrills of riding a giant spider into battle happen.
We have a Drow Oath of Conquest paladin in our party. He can summon a steed as spell. Because he's a Lolth-worshipper, it makes sense that the steed is a spider. Because it's magically summoned, it'll do what he wants. So that solves the how/why aspect.
I like the idea of needing a longer-ranged weapon to strike past the spider, however this might not apply for enemies directly in front of him, since the spider needs to be close enough to get its fangs into the enemy. My feeling is that, most importantly, while serving as a mount, the spider cannot climb on the ceiling, and any move across a vertical surface needs to be done parkour-style so the spider doesn't end it's move on the wall. Even allowing for the rider to stay on, any equipment not strapped to his body is going to fall off. The exception to the movement rule would be if the spider was moving across webs, as that would provide enough adhesion to allow it to support the weight of the rider as well.
Otherwise, carry on with rules as normal, I reckon! :)
Any particular reason for making this more intricate than (I’m guessing) things are handled for PCs with flying mounts or PCs who can fly or climb themselves?
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Everyone here has done a great job covering the aspects of should the player be able to get a spider, and staying in the saddle during climbing and so on. I find the question of attacks interesting. In real life, I don’t think a person seated on a giant spider would be able to reach far enough past the legs with a sword to strike an opponent. The legs would create a circle around the spider that would make it so any melee weapons that are not lengthy (like pole arm or perhaps javelin) would not reach. What will your player do in combat? Use a ranged weapon? Or will you allow sword attacks from the saddle?
The other question is how do you train something that in the wild would eat you? Do you ever run the risk of pushing it too hard and having the spider turn on its master and make you its food source? Ask and lion or bear trainer and I’m sure that is always in the back of their mind. Does the character have to exert some sort of animal handling check every now and again to make sure he can assert his/her will?
Drows very likely tame spiders, so acquiring one from them would probably be the easiest way to get a mount.
As for the rest of this thread, and for those who find it in the future, doing constant checks is not a good idea. In fact, you really only should do one when something significant happens while on a wall or ceiling. Ex:
Does the spider get hit by a critical hit? Then is probably the time to make that check, to make sure that the poor rider doesn't get flung off when pain shoots through it, or some other delicate part is hit.
Does it get certain AoE spells cast on it that have the potential to alter the terrain? (Any difficult terrain, causing the wall/ceiling to become slippery, etc..) or does the spider get forcibly moved while on those surfaces? Then make a check for both, one to see if the spider stays on the surface, and one for the rider.
Any other time, as other have said, basically feels like you are punishing that player for wanting to ride a cool mount. Glad things worked out in the end for OP and his player, this message is mostly for others looking here because of similar situations.
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I would imagine that combat on a giant spider would be no different than it would be on a warhorse. They are both the same size, and while the issues they pose due to that size are different, the game's mechanics basically ignore the real life limitations. Which is fine: as I said earlier, despite anything your players claim to the contrary, they are not playing D&D for a realistic experience. If they wanted realism, they'd sign up for a renn fair, join a boxing gym, to take up parkour.
As for how to train it, the ways to do so are vast in the D&D setting. Some involve magic, some could be ye old "find a baby and make it think your its mama", and some could just be some ludicrous training method like establishing your dominance over the beast by defeating it in a pie eating contest. How players can tame animal companions is entirely up to the DM. Same goes for the likelihood that a tamed animal will bite the hand that feeds it.
Though, one thing that these two topics brings up in my mind is combat. The answer to the following question is "whatever the DM wants to do", but should still be thought about.
Can the spider still bite people in combat? Does it get its own turn to do so? If not, what kind of action would the player need to expend to tell the spider to bite that guy? Can the spider make reactions such as opportunity attacks? Can it make its own, or does the player have to choose whether they or their spider makes an opportunity attack?
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Sam, good points, and I agree on the realism. Having a spider mount is like having a Battlecat for He-Man, or Pegasus for Hercules. It’s just cool. I guess I thought it might be a fun element though to occasionally toss an animal handling roll and pass anything but a critical fail. On a critical fail, you could make some fun things happen until the player restores dominance. Just a fun element to riding a spider.
The last consideration is how to feed it. You can’t really pull up to the tavern and strap a feed bag on. Does the local bar keep like you enough to keep a corpse or two on hand or previously wrapped by the spider? Maybe one of your drivers for adventures is to keep your mount fed? The spider likes goblin meat and the locals love you for keeping the maurading goblins down? So many fun places to go.
LET THY MOUNT FEAST UPON THY FALLEN FOES! MWAHAHAHAHA!
Ongoing Projects: The Mimic Book of Mimics :: SHARK WEEK
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Lots of great insight, we ran last night and the halfling had his spider, and hilarity ensued. He is a crossbow expert so he just wants to ride it for flavor and shoot from it, he attempted combat and decided that is a poor idea as he almost got knocked off into a 60ft fall off of a wall. Requiring an athletics check or animal handling check on certain situations or if the spider took damage (It almost died as well) seemed to flow just fine and the player thought it made sense.
He quickly found out the spider can't go into any old city, the wood elves seem slightly more tolerant of it but he mostly hides it outside of the city and retrieves it when the group departs. Although he did cause quite a stir when he took it full speed throw the main drag of a village and pandemonium ensued. After the spider almost died and he almost died he pretty much gave up riding it for combat, instead sending the spider to sit upon the ceiling in an ancient ruin just to become nervous when he couldn't get the spider to return as it seemed freaked out and possibly surrounded by unknown creatures in the shadows of the 100 ft ceiling.
All in all it was a success, he did try to use a homebrew spider he googled but I put the kibosh on that because it was ridiculous and he understood.
and he's using the ranger beast master so at level 4 the spider can only move unless he uses his action to give it a command. It was pretty balanced and the real world pros and cons were quickly discovered.
1) A spider mount isn't game breaking unless the DM allows some really unusual ability because of it. Basically, it just allows the character to ride a mount that can climb a wall or ceiling.
2) I'd suggest not having any regular ability checks to stay on the mount since it is pointless. In game the character would know what is required to ride up a vertical surface or on a ceiling and whether it is safe or not. Any regular check really means that the whole process is unsafe and you're just better off telling the player No. In addition, the idea that the straps could cause regular damage is just completely bogus. Either the character can ride a spider or not ... if there is no way to build a restraint system that won't damage them then just say they can't ride one.
The DM could impost a strength requirement for actions like riding on vertical and inverted surfaces since you will need pretty substantial muscles to keep yourself steady and balanced sitting on a spider that is climbing on such surfaces. If you don't have the strength minimum then attacks could be at disadvantage since you can't hold yourself steady.
3) As the poster above mentioned, a spider has a different leg layout than a horse. For most spiders I have seen the legs would get in the way of any melee combat since they extend significantly beyond the body of the spider where the character is riding. I'd probably rule that you need a reach or ranged weapon to engage in combat while riding a spider.
Anyway, if you feel it breaks the game somehow ... don't allow a spider mount. If it doesn't then impose some reasonable restrictions that make some sense based on the creature and usage and allow the player to be imaginative in the use of the mount.
My point of view is the DM should try to make player ideas work, while being reasonable. As some have said, giant spiders wouldn't be welcome in civilized cities, towns or villages. That's one drawback. Second, riding a spider should require a saddle with straps, which would require time to don and doff, much like armor or a shield. That's a second drawback.
As for me, I would think that holding a riding position when the spider is climbing a vertical surface would require some pretty good core strength. If my player wanted to do something like shoot, swing or cast while in this position, I would first have them roll a strength check with a DC of 15 (or so). On a fail they have a disadvantage on their action.
If the spider is upside down, there's much less effort to maintain a riding position, but it can be disorienting and the blood will tend to rush to your head. In this situation I would replace the strength check with a constitution check, with the same disadvantage on action if it fails.
Then you can let all the benefits and thrills of riding a giant spider into battle happen.
We have a Drow Oath of Conquest paladin in our party. He can summon a steed as spell. Because he's a Lolth-worshipper, it makes sense that the steed is a spider. Because it's magically summoned, it'll do what he wants. So that solves the how/why aspect.
I like the idea of needing a longer-ranged weapon to strike past the spider, however this might not apply for enemies directly in front of him, since the spider needs to be close enough to get its fangs into the enemy. My feeling is that, most importantly, while serving as a mount, the spider cannot climb on the ceiling, and any move across a vertical surface needs to be done parkour-style so the spider doesn't end it's move on the wall. Even allowing for the rider to stay on, any equipment not strapped to his body is going to fall off. The exception to the movement rule would be if the spider was moving across webs, as that would provide enough adhesion to allow it to support the weight of the rider as well.
Otherwise, carry on with rules as normal, I reckon! :)
Any particular reason for making this more intricate than (I’m guessing) things are handled for PCs with flying mounts or PCs who can fly or climb themselves?
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Drows very likely tame spiders, so acquiring one from them would probably be the easiest way to get a mount.
As for the rest of this thread, and for those who find it in the future, doing constant checks is not a good idea. In fact, you really only should do one when something significant happens while on a wall or ceiling. Ex:
Does the spider get hit by a critical hit? Then is probably the time to make that check, to make sure that the poor rider doesn't get flung off when pain shoots through it, or some other delicate part is hit.
Does it get certain AoE spells cast on it that have the potential to alter the terrain? (Any difficult terrain, causing the wall/ceiling to become slippery, etc..) or does the spider get forcibly moved while on those surfaces? Then make a check for both, one to see if the spider stays on the surface, and one for the rider.
Any other time, as other have said, basically feels like you are punishing that player for wanting to ride a cool mount. Glad things worked out in the end for OP and his player, this message is mostly for others looking here because of similar situations.