So our last session ended in a strange place. Due to a complicated series of circumstances, the party ended up underground, trapped in a chamber that was starting to fill up with water. Some of the characters started trying to place the cavern ceiling above them to make a tunnel out... the problem being that there's still about 80 feet of rock above them. The fireballs they were throwing at the ceiling started to destabilize the chamber, which caused the roof to begin to cave in. We ended the session there, with a cliffhanger, with an imminent, literal "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.
Basically, I'm looking for any interesting ideas for ways to get out of this situation or avert certain death. Interesting ways to resolve cliffhangers where it seems like there's no way out.
It could be as very simple as "having blacked out in the collapse, you awaken in [insert location here], bodily bruised and memory foggy...." and then pick up from there with either some light evidence of how they ended up there, or a semi-friendly (or not) NPC or monster that has collected them from where they bodies washed out after the cave-in opened some way for the water to gush out. Maybe one of them had a strange trinket that finally activated to reveal itself as a safety device? Maybe if the party has a Warlock, their patron had a hand in saving the group.
EDIT: This is also how people sometimes wake up in the Underdark. Just saying.....
Basically, I'm looking for any interesting ideas for ways to get out of this situation or avert certain death. Interesting ways to resolve cliffhangers where it seems like there's no way out.
If there's 80' of rock up there, 'destabilize the ceiling' may just a bunch of rubble and boulders falls off of the ceiling, and when they're done there's still 75' of rock above them. This is certainly dangerous for people in the chamber, but survivable by dodging or finding cover.
I would note that the chamber filling with water means that somewhere nearby there's a water source, either an underground river or a flooded chamber, and you have plenty of flexibility to decide which it is. A plausible enough sequence of events is
A limited but dangerous number of rocks fall. Treat as a Collapsing Roof.
This breaks open the side of the chamber, and now the water comes rushing in. PCs must make a Strength save (DC 15) or suffer 2d10 damage and be swept away to a random point in the chamber.
Eventually the water level stabilizes and the PCs have to swim to safety. Possibly there's something in the new chamber that just broke open?
And then the water monsters attack (optional, depending on how much punishment you feel the PCs need).
Often when a cave collapses it does not collapse completely. That would result in a sink hole the size of the cavern way up above on the ground.
Instead it is a partial collapse, resulting in one large cavern turning into 3-6 smaller caverns, which people have to climb from one to another. Throw in a upper tunnel that USED to be above them, so now there is an exit tunnel 20 ft up in the air.
Have someone climb/misty step up to the tunnel exit and lower a rope, tada, everyone is on the way out.
So our last session ended in a strange place. Due to a complicated series of circumstances, the party ended up underground, trapped in a chamber that was starting to fill up with water. Some of the characters started trying to place the cavern ceiling above them to make a tunnel out... the problem being that there's still about 80 feet of rock above them. The fireballs they were throwing at the ceiling started to destabilize the chamber, which caused the roof to begin to cave in. We ended the session there, with a cliffhanger, with an imminent, literal "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.
Basically, I'm looking for any interesting ideas for ways to get out of this situation or avert certain death. Interesting ways to resolve cliffhangers where it seems like there's no way out.
Thanks!
Or..I dunno, everyone dies. If the PC's made bad decisions about how to get out, well, TPK. Fireballs don't have any effect on rock. That is explicit in the rules. 80 feet of rock....nope.
I mean, it was a dumb move, but it wasn't that dumb. Plus, some of the players weren't there last game and I wouldn't want to punish them for something they couldn't do anything about.
I mean, it was a dumb move, but it wasn't that dumb. Plus, some of the players weren't there last game and I wouldn't want to punish them for something they couldn't do anything about.
Then the PC's of the players that were not at that session "were in the next cave chamber", and are unaffected.
Ask yourself this. Are you running a game where decisions by the players have no consequences? If so, then handwave as you see fit. But if you are running a game where PC's can die if the players make bad decisions, or even if the dice gods frown on a PC (I have seen that happen), then use the PC deaths as a group learning experience.
The fireballs woke up (insert burrowing monster here) in a nearby cavern, who comes bashing through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man to find out what all the hubbub is about
The water then drains out (and pulling the party with it into the adjoining cavern?), removing one threat but introducing another
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I mean, it was a dumb move, but it wasn't that dumb. Plus, some of the players weren't there last game and I wouldn't want to punish them for something they couldn't do anything about.
Then the PC's of the players that were not at that session "were in the next cave chamber", and are unaffected.
Ask yourself this. Are you running a game where decisions by the players have no consequences? If so, then handwave as you see fit. But if you are running a game where PC's can die if the players make bad decisions, or even if the dice gods frown on a PC (I have seen that happen), then use the PC deaths as a group learning experience.
Nah.
OP, ask yourself this: would it be fun at all, for you and your players, to wipe out the PCs this way? I mean we already know the answer to that, since you asked the question.
JustAFarmer likes a particular idiom of play where life is cheap, death is common, characters are more playing pieces than people, and so on. And he thinks everyone should be playing this way. His advice is best ignored unless that's your jam. And I will note that you can play a game where all that's true, and still not want to put the party into arbitrary TPK situations.
As to the initial situation:
The ceiling can collapse without crushing everyone to death. An 80-foot thick layer of rock that's been stable for a long time isn't just going to up and fully collapse without the PCs trying pretty hard. You can beat them up with falling rocks without crushing them utterly. And maybe the falling rocks will reveal some kind of passage, tunnel, crevasse, or whatever that can be followed to more trouble.
Just because the room's filling with water doesn't mean it has to fully fill. If the source aquifer is low enough, water levels could even out while there's still a little space left. Then the PCs get to tread water and build up exhaustion while they try to get out. The increased pressure could bust open a weak wall (possibly weakened by the PCs' flailing) and the entire system could violently drain, dragging the PCs along to somewhere else.
Unless the flooding chamber is a deliberately-constructed deathtrap, there's lots of ways it could resolve. And even if it is a deathtrap, it can be old and malfunction, or the being who made it can stop it because they want something.
Assign a Difficulty Class to survive the cave-in. Let's say DC 15, as this is hard. Then, ask the players what their characters will do, using any/all of their skills/powers/wits, to survive and get out alive. Have them apply those skills and roll a d20+(relevant modifiers to their action). One at a time. In the order that they choose. Tell them they need three successes before they rack up three failures.
Success: Whatever they did works! They are out in the fresh air and dodged a major catastrophe!
Failure: (depends on the level of lethality in your game).
Very Lethal: The rocks fall in, and they all die from the blunt trauma and/or lack of oxygen as the water fills in any gaps in the rocks.
More Heroic Than Lethal: The "bottom" of the cave collapses from the weight of the waters just as the water level is about to drown them. Whatever is below it's not meant to hold water, and they all splash down into a larger cavern and small lake of water. They are now in the Underdark.
I mean, it was a dumb move, but it wasn't that dumb. Plus, some of the players weren't there last game and I wouldn't want to punish them for something they couldn't do anything about.
Then the PC's of the players that were not at that session "were in the next cave chamber", and are unaffected.
Ask yourself this. Are you running a game where decisions by the players have no consequences? If so, then handwave as you see fit. But if you are running a game where PC's can die if the players make bad decisions, or even if the dice gods frown on a PC (I have seen that happen), then use the PC deaths as a group learning experience.
Nah.
OP, ask yourself this: would it be fun at all, for you and your players, to wipe out the PCs this way? I mean we already know the answer to that, since you asked the question.
JustAFarmer likes a particular idiom of play where life is cheap, death is common, characters are more playing pieces than people, and so on. And he thinks everyone should be playing this way. His advice is best ignored unless that's your jam. And I will note that you can play a game where all that's true, and still not want to put the party into arbitrary TPK situations.
As to the initial situation:
The ceiling can collapse without crushing everyone to death. An 80-foot thick layer of rock that's been stable for a long time isn't just going to up and fully collapse without the PCs trying pretty hard. You can beat them up with falling rocks without crushing them utterly. And maybe the falling rocks will reveal some kind of passage, tunnel, crevasse, or whatever that can be followed to more trouble.
Just because the room's filling with water doesn't mean it has to fully fill. If the source aquifer is low enough, water levels could even out while there's still a little space left. Then the PCs get to tread water and build up exhaustion while they try to get out. The increased pressure could bust open a weak wall (possibly weakened by the PCs' flailing) and the entire system could violently drain, dragging the PCs along to somewhere else.
Unless the flooding chamber is a deliberately-constructed deathtrap, there's lots of ways it could resolve. And even if it is a deathtrap, it can be old and malfunction, or the being who made it can stop it because they want something.
I had a few different ideas. Multiple correct options seemed like a good idea due to the situation.
They could have spoken a certain command word that would have stopped the water.
They found some coins earlier and if they them on the eyes of the statue in the center of the cavern, it would have also stopped.
Alternatively, there's another tunnel underwater that they could have swam to, leading them up to another chamber with air.
So it is a constructed deathtrap. I don't know how well you telegraphed the solutions, but players are always more obtuse than you think they are. And with the third, do they have any indication that that tunnel is not also flooding? What's obvious to the DM can easily be much less so in practice.
More importantly, you have a constructed chamber -- it's easy to justify it being sturdy enough that the PCs can't bring the roof down. (Even if the 80 feet of rock will eventually collapse with the damage they've done, it doesn't all have to happen now.)
As for the flooding, is the trap maintained? Could it fail? How does it drain? Could that fail?
If it is being maintained, who's maintaining it? Can they have any reason to not kill the PCs?
Is it, in fact, a deathtrap, or does it serve some other purpose? Just because you designed it so doesn't mean you're forever bound to that decision.
And, just because you don't kill them, that doesn't mean they get away unscathed. In many ways, killing characters is the most boring way of applying consequences.
This area was designed as a deathtrap by the underground creatures who created it. A lot of the trap is magical in nature, so I guess Dispel Magic could get the party out, too - but no one thought of that.
I suppose the creators could stop the water if there seems to be something especially interesting about the party that they might be able to use for some other purpose. I'm not sure if I love that idea, though.
I would agree that this is probably a situation where there should be some sort of consequences for the characters. Do you have any ideas for what sort of thing that could be or how that could work?
I had a few different ideas. Multiple correct options seemed like a good idea due to the situation.
They could have spoken a certain command word that would have stopped the water.
They found some coins earlier and if they them on the eyes of the statue in the center of the cavern, it would have also stopped.
Alternatively, there's another tunnel underwater that they could have swam to, leading them up to another chamber with air.
Ok. Sounds good. So why can't these solutions work for the characters now? Did the characters fail all checks for Investigation and Perception, or did they do something that negated these options (i.e they destroyed the statue)?
Based on these options, after the characters complete their saving throws and apply damage from the falling rocks, have one them fall through the floor. The falling rocks compromised this tunnel's integrity. The debris of the collapsing tunnel combined with the running water has made it difficult terrain; but the character who fell in can see an open area and shouts this information back to the party. Now you can setup a time challenge for the players to climb down and navigate through the debris and water to get out of the area before the rest of the chamber collapses in. If your players opt not to Dash or they dilly dally then they risk being crushed or trapped. If they are successful in the challenge, they find themselves entering the new chamber with the air.
Just explain that they do. They have no memory of how. But they do have they knowledge that they have an outstand I.O.U. and they don't know who, or what, is holding it.
But keep in mind that if the water is coming in through a hole, the water level can't exceed the height of the hole because there's no way for the air in the cavern to get out and make room for the water. If the air can get out, then the players can get out. And it is the job of the players to figure out how. If they can't, resort to the first paragraph.
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So our last session ended in a strange place. Due to a complicated series of circumstances, the party ended up underground, trapped in a chamber that was starting to fill up with water. Some of the characters started trying to place the cavern ceiling above them to make a tunnel out... the problem being that there's still about 80 feet of rock above them. The fireballs they were throwing at the ceiling started to destabilize the chamber, which caused the roof to begin to cave in. We ended the session there, with a cliffhanger, with an imminent, literal "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.
Basically, I'm looking for any interesting ideas for ways to get out of this situation or avert certain death. Interesting ways to resolve cliffhangers where it seems like there's no way out.
Thanks!
It could be as very simple as "having blacked out in the collapse, you awaken in [insert location here], bodily bruised and memory foggy...." and then pick up from there with either some light evidence of how they ended up there, or a semi-friendly (or not) NPC or monster that has collected them from where they bodies washed out after the cave-in opened some way for the water to gush out. Maybe one of them had a strange trinket that finally activated to reveal itself as a safety device? Maybe if the party has a Warlock, their patron had a hand in saving the group.
EDIT: This is also how people sometimes wake up in the Underdark. Just saying.....
If there's 80' of rock up there, 'destabilize the ceiling' may just a bunch of rubble and boulders falls off of the ceiling, and when they're done there's still 75' of rock above them. This is certainly dangerous for people in the chamber, but survivable by dodging or finding cover.
I would note that the chamber filling with water means that somewhere nearby there's a water source, either an underground river or a flooded chamber, and you have plenty of flexibility to decide which it is. A plausible enough sequence of events is
Often when a cave collapses it does not collapse completely. That would result in a sink hole the size of the cavern way up above on the ground.
Instead it is a partial collapse, resulting in one large cavern turning into 3-6 smaller caverns, which people have to climb from one to another. Throw in a upper tunnel that USED to be above them, so now there is an exit tunnel 20 ft up in the air.
Have someone climb/misty step up to the tunnel exit and lower a rope, tada, everyone is on the way out.
Or..I dunno, everyone dies. If the PC's made bad decisions about how to get out, well, TPK. Fireballs don't have any effect on rock. That is explicit in the rules. 80 feet of rock....nope.
I mean, it was a dumb move, but it wasn't that dumb. Plus, some of the players weren't there last game and I wouldn't want to punish them for something they couldn't do anything about.
Then the PC's of the players that were not at that session "were in the next cave chamber", and are unaffected.
Ask yourself this. Are you running a game where decisions by the players have no consequences? If so, then handwave as you see fit. But if you are running a game where PC's can die if the players make bad decisions, or even if the dice gods frown on a PC (I have seen that happen), then use the PC deaths as a group learning experience.
Just out of curiosity, what means of escape were you anticipating the party doing?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The fireballs woke up (insert burrowing monster here) in a nearby cavern, who comes bashing through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man to find out what all the hubbub is about
The water then drains out (and pulling the party with it into the adjoining cavern?), removing one threat but introducing another
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Nah.
OP, ask yourself this: would it be fun at all, for you and your players, to wipe out the PCs this way? I mean we already know the answer to that, since you asked the question.
JustAFarmer likes a particular idiom of play where life is cheap, death is common, characters are more playing pieces than people, and so on. And he thinks everyone should be playing this way. His advice is best ignored unless that's your jam. And I will note that you can play a game where all that's true, and still not want to put the party into arbitrary TPK situations.
As to the initial situation:
The ceiling can collapse without crushing everyone to death. An 80-foot thick layer of rock that's been stable for a long time isn't just going to up and fully collapse without the PCs trying pretty hard. You can beat them up with falling rocks without crushing them utterly. And maybe the falling rocks will reveal some kind of passage, tunnel, crevasse, or whatever that can be followed to more trouble.
Just because the room's filling with water doesn't mean it has to fully fill. If the source aquifer is low enough, water levels could even out while there's still a little space left. Then the PCs get to tread water and build up exhaustion while they try to get out. The increased pressure could bust open a weak wall (possibly weakened by the PCs' flailing) and the entire system could violently drain, dragging the PCs along to somewhere else.
Unless the flooding chamber is a deliberately-constructed deathtrap, there's lots of ways it could resolve. And even if it is a deathtrap, it can be old and malfunction, or the being who made it can stop it because they want something.
I'd suggest running a 4e-style Skill Challenge.
Assign a Difficulty Class to survive the cave-in. Let's say DC 15, as this is hard. Then, ask the players what their characters will do, using any/all of their skills/powers/wits, to survive and get out alive. Have them apply those skills and roll a d20+(relevant modifiers to their action). One at a time. In the order that they choose. Tell them they need three successes before they rack up three failures.
Agree. Before we debate good or bad decisions by the players we need to understand what are options of escape.
That's right. I play the game as it was designed.
I had a few different ideas. Multiple correct options seemed like a good idea due to the situation.
So it is a constructed deathtrap. I don't know how well you telegraphed the solutions, but players are always more obtuse than you think they are. And with the third, do they have any indication that that tunnel is not also flooding? What's obvious to the DM can easily be much less so in practice.
More importantly, you have a constructed chamber -- it's easy to justify it being sturdy enough that the PCs can't bring the roof down. (Even if the 80 feet of rock will eventually collapse with the damage they've done, it doesn't all have to happen now.)
As for the flooding, is the trap maintained? Could it fail? How does it drain? Could that fail?
If it is being maintained, who's maintaining it? Can they have any reason to not kill the PCs?
Is it, in fact, a deathtrap, or does it serve some other purpose? Just because you designed it so doesn't mean you're forever bound to that decision.
And, just because you don't kill them, that doesn't mean they get away unscathed. In many ways, killing characters is the most boring way of applying consequences.
This area was designed as a deathtrap by the underground creatures who created it. A lot of the trap is magical in nature, so I guess Dispel Magic could get the party out, too - but no one thought of that.
I suppose the creators could stop the water if there seems to be something especially interesting about the party that they might be able to use for some other purpose. I'm not sure if I love that idea, though.
I would agree that this is probably a situation where there should be some sort of consequences for the characters. Do you have any ideas for what sort of thing that could be or how that could work?
Ok. Sounds good. So why can't these solutions work for the characters now? Did the characters fail all checks for Investigation and Perception, or did they do something that negated these options (i.e they destroyed the statue)?
Based on these options, after the characters complete their saving throws and apply damage from the falling rocks, have one them fall through the floor. The falling rocks compromised this tunnel's integrity. The debris of the collapsing tunnel combined with the running water has made it difficult terrain; but the character who fell in can see an open area and shouts this information back to the party. Now you can setup a time challenge for the players to climb down and navigate through the debris and water to get out of the area before the rest of the chamber collapses in. If your players opt not to Dash or they dilly dally then they risk being crushed or trapped. If they are successful in the challenge, they find themselves entering the new chamber with the air.
Just explain that they do. They have no memory of how. But they do have they knowledge that they have an outstand I.O.U. and they don't know who, or what, is holding it.
But keep in mind that if the water is coming in through a hole, the water level can't exceed the height of the hole because there's no way for the air in the cavern to get out and make room for the water. If the air can get out, then the players can get out. And it is the job of the players to figure out how. If they can't, resort to the first paragraph.