We just finished Lost Mine of Phandelver. And after we take a break for another campaign, we plan to come back and continue with another adventure.
"Gundren and Nundro Rockseeker take over administration of the new mine. For the adventurers’ service to their family, they gladly award the party a 10 percent share of the mine’s profits."
What is a fair amount to give the party and how often? How much does the mine produce minus expenses? Just looking for ideas, what dice do you roll, or how do you figure it out? If this has been covered in another thread I haven't found it.
A mine that was just taken over should not be making any profit the first six months. After that, look at the living expenses. As per page 157 of PHB, 4gp a day is the wealthy. I mine owner should be wealthy, so earning 120 gp a month, or 12 x that for a year about 1,440gp for a reasonably profitable mine. You could set it anywhere between 1,000 gp and 2,000 gp a year or....
Randomly generated, that could be 3d6 x 100gp. Minimum of 300, max of 1800, most likely around 1,000 gp a year. Take 10% of that and give it to the players. But feel free to have additional problems with the mine that need more assistance. Works better if you give them some good years first.
Without modern banking systems, people tend to collect once a month if you live in the same town, once a year directly to a bank if you do not live in the same town. That seems most likely for an adventurer.
Also - do not forget TAXES. Mines tend to be taxed. Up to you if the payment is pre or post taxes.
The mine's profit could be as little or as high as the DM want, no indication is given in the adventure itself. After all exploitation cost are paid, and revenue divided the party's 10% share i would say could range of 0-50 gp / month (1d6-1) to show the precarity and instability of such operations. Like this, some month they could make no money or little and sometimes a bit more so its not insignificant.
The most common award is 20 gold a month after six in-game months to get the mine operations up and running again as well as establishing the trade routes. There is a business operations table in the Dungeon Master's Guide you can use, having the players roll a d100 and losing/earning money depending on the roll.
My group successfully negotiated 20% and took over the manor so we just put the money towards rebuilding and upkeep on the mansion.
I guess it depends on how much looking after it takes?
In our game, the water (lake/sea) in Wave Echo Cave itself is linked to the Underdark and tributary of seas and rivers there that spreads across Faerun (as is Old Owl Well). And it's not very safe at all currently... so will be a while before the mine is active again. And plenty for the players to do.
Depends how much your crew are in to economy I guess - but agree with others, I wouldn't make it a big thing. 10-100 gp that turns up occasionally (when needed). Gotta keep them adventurers adventuring...
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RPGs from '83 - 03. A fair bit of LRP. A big gap. And now DMing again. Froth.
I might actually say the Rockseekers try to buy them out, and just give them a lump sum of something like 1,000 gold or 2,000 or something. You certainly don't want to start tracking how successful an NPC's business is running. But I also wouldn't want to worry about the other stuff. Is it going to be 50 gold/month. OK, now you need to implement a calendar, worry about when its the first of the month, then what if the characters aren't in town to collect the funds? Do they wake up with a small pile of gp in their camp in the middle of a dungeon? Do the rockseekers (meaning you) track how many months since the last time the party visited to collect their share, and hand it to them in person. It just seems like a bookkeeping (literal bookkeeping in this case) headache.
Or if not that, maybe do something else you can handwave or push to the background. Like say to represent them getting and spending the money, they can basically stay at any inn and eat for free (where actually, they're just getting the money from the rockseekers and then spending that money). That saves everyone from just nickel-and-diming everything.
I really wanted to get analytical with real world ROI and back that up with dmg gemstone tables. but instead I accidentally remembered that the updated Phandelver Below answered this pretty clearly.
"Consider giving the characters a sum of 255 gp (10d10 + 200) at the beginning of each chapter to represent this award."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
This comes from the adventure Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk:
Gundren and Nundro Rockseeker take over administration of the new mine. For the adventurers' service to their family, they gladly award the party a 10 percent share of the mine's profits. It's up to you how much gold you give the players and how often. Consider giving the characters a sum of 255 gp (10d10 + 200) at the beginning of each chapter to represent this award.
The heroes have now defeated the Spider and undone his plots, cleared Phandalin of the ruffians who threatened its people, and reclaimed the lost mine of Wave Echo Cave. If you aren't playing subsequent chapters of this adventure, no new plots need surface.
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee "Time is relative" - Albert Einstein "It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake "Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
I've also been looking for what amounts I should give to a party of 5 players who agreed to Gundren's 10% offer. As a DM, I was curious as to what kind of funds Gundren would need to operate the mine on a yearly basis (expenses) and how much the mine would need to produce per year (revenue) to get Gundren and The Party a fair return (profit). With that said, I didn't expect the mine to produce anything for at least 6 to 12 months. As others have said, using the Lifestyle Expenses is a good way to go and is also used down below.
So, here's all the variables & formulas I used:
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
Expenses = .7R (70% of Revenue is expenses)
Good Profit Margin for a business = 10% (if the mine is not earning well, make it 5% OR 20% if doing great OR 30% if doing outstanding like this example below shows)
# of players in party
% of profit/shares in mine for party = 10% (1 of 10 shares, i.e. 1 share for Party Inc. and 9 for Gundren Inc.)
So, first I decided to use a Wealthy Lifestyle (4 gp/day) for figuring out what the Party would receive from their share on a yearly basis:
4 gp x 5 players = 20 gp/day x 360 days = 7,200 gp/year (or, 600 gp/month) (divided between 5 party members = 120 gp each/month)
Using that number, I can calculate Gundren's share:
9 shares x 7,200 gp = 64,800 gp
Next, I added the Party and Gundren's shares together to come up with the total profit:
7,200 gp + 64,800 gp = 72,000 gp
So, now we can plug this into the following formula:
R (revenue) - .7R (expenses) = 72,000 gp (profit)
1R - .7R = 72,000
.3R = 72,000
R = 72,000 divided by .3
R (revenue) = 240,000 gp
.7R (expenses) = .7 x 240,000 gp = 168,000 gp
Back to our formula (Revenue - Expenses = Profit):
240,000 gp - 168,000 gp = 72,000 gp
So, one suggestion would be that, after the 1st year of getting the mine going, you could give a party of 5 the following (depending on how well the mine is producing and based on the Lifestyle Expenses you desire):
Modest = (150 gp/month, lump sum to the Party)
Second year of operation:
Comfortable = (300 gp/month, lump sum to the Party)
Third year of operation:
Wealthy = (600 gp/month, lump sum to the Party)
Fourth year of operation:
Aristocratic = (1,500 gp/month, lump sum to the Party)
Other possible scenarios could be that the mine does really well for a few years but then the mine runs dry of gold and platinum, dramatically dropping the party's share of the mine's profits.
One interesting story element is that Gundren needs a whole lot of startup capital (168,000 gp in this scenario) to get this mine producing (The Bank of Neverwinter? Lord Neverember? A loan from a guild?)
Anyways, did the above for fun. Hope you find it useful.
We just finished Lost Mine of Phandelver. And after we take a break for another campaign, we plan to come back and continue with another adventure.
"Gundren and Nundro Rockseeker take over administration of the new mine. For the adventurers’ service to their family, they gladly award the party a 10 percent share of the mine’s profits."
What is a fair amount to give the party and how often? How much does the mine produce minus expenses? Just looking for ideas, what dice do you roll, or how do you figure it out? If this has been covered in another thread I haven't found it.
Thanks
A mine that was just taken over should not be making any profit the first six months. After that, look at the living expenses. As per page 157 of PHB, 4gp a day is the wealthy. I mine owner should be wealthy, so earning 120 gp a month, or 12 x that for a year about 1,440gp for a reasonably profitable mine. You could set it anywhere between 1,000 gp and 2,000 gp a year or....
Randomly generated, that could be 3d6 x 100gp. Minimum of 300, max of 1800, most likely around 1,000 gp a year. Take 10% of that and give it to the players. But feel free to have additional problems with the mine that need more assistance. Works better if you give them some good years first.
Without modern banking systems, people tend to collect once a month if you live in the same town, once a year directly to a bank if you do not live in the same town. That seems most likely for an adventurer.
Also - do not forget TAXES. Mines tend to be taxed. Up to you if the payment is pre or post taxes.
The mine's profit could be as little or as high as the DM want, no indication is given in the adventure itself. After all exploitation cost are paid, and revenue divided the party's 10% share i would say could range of 0-50 gp / month (1d6-1) to show the precarity and instability of such operations. Like this, some month they could make no money or little and sometimes a bit more so its not insignificant.
The most common award is 20 gold a month after six in-game months to get the mine operations up and running again as well as establishing the trade routes. There is a business operations table in the Dungeon Master's Guide you can use, having the players roll a d100 and losing/earning money depending on the roll.
My group successfully negotiated 20% and took over the manor so we just put the money towards rebuilding and upkeep on the mansion.
I guess it depends on how much looking after it takes?
In our game, the water (lake/sea) in Wave Echo Cave itself is linked to the Underdark and tributary of seas and rivers there that spreads across Faerun (as is Old Owl Well). And it's not very safe at all currently... so will be a while before the mine is active again. And plenty for the players to do.
Depends how much your crew are in to economy I guess - but agree with others, I wouldn't make it a big thing. 10-100 gp that turns up occasionally (when needed). Gotta keep them adventurers adventuring...
RPGs from '83 - 03. A fair bit of LRP. A big gap. And now DMing again. Froth.
I might actually say the Rockseekers try to buy them out, and just give them a lump sum of something like 1,000 gold or 2,000 or something. You certainly don't want to start tracking how successful an NPC's business is running. But I also wouldn't want to worry about the other stuff. Is it going to be 50 gold/month. OK, now you need to implement a calendar, worry about when its the first of the month, then what if the characters aren't in town to collect the funds? Do they wake up with a small pile of gp in their camp in the middle of a dungeon? Do the rockseekers (meaning you) track how many months since the last time the party visited to collect their share, and hand it to them in person. It just seems like a bookkeeping (literal bookkeeping in this case) headache.
Or if not that, maybe do something else you can handwave or push to the background. Like say to represent them getting and spending the money, they can basically stay at any inn and eat for free (where actually, they're just getting the money from the rockseekers and then spending that money). That saves everyone from just nickel-and-diming everything.
I really wanted to get analytical with real world ROI and back that up with dmg gemstone tables. but instead I accidentally remembered that the updated Phandelver Below answered this pretty clearly.
"Consider giving the characters a sum of 255 gp (10d10 + 200) at the beginning of each chapter to represent this award."
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
This comes from the adventure Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk:
Edit: Or I should read the post above....
"Time, like hope, is an illusion" - Lumalee
"Time is relative" - Albert Einstein
"It's a joke. It's all a joke. Mother forgive me" - Edward 'The Comedian' Blake
"Do I look like the kind of clown that can start a movement?" - Arthur Fleck
Thank you all for the suggestions. It helps a lot. 🙂
I've also been looking for what amounts I should give to a party of 5 players who agreed to Gundren's 10% offer. As a DM, I was curious as to what kind of funds Gundren would need to operate the mine on a yearly basis (expenses) and how much the mine would need to produce per year (revenue) to get Gundren and The Party a fair return (profit). With that said, I didn't expect the mine to produce anything for at least 6 to 12 months. As others have said, using the Lifestyle Expenses is a good way to go and is also used down below.
So, here's all the variables & formulas I used:
So, first I decided to use a Wealthy Lifestyle (4 gp/day) for figuring out what the Party would receive from their share on a yearly basis:
4 gp x 5 players = 20 gp/day x 360 days = 7,200 gp/year (or, 600 gp/month) (divided between 5 party members = 120 gp each/month)
Using that number, I can calculate Gundren's share:
9 shares x 7,200 gp = 64,800 gp
Next, I added the Party and Gundren's shares together to come up with the total profit:
7,200 gp + 64,800 gp = 72,000 gp
So, now we can plug this into the following formula:
R (revenue) - .7R (expenses) = 72,000 gp (profit)
1R - .7R = 72,000
.3R = 72,000
R = 72,000 divided by .3
R (revenue) = 240,000 gp
.7R (expenses) = .7 x 240,000 gp = 168,000 gp
Back to our formula (Revenue - Expenses = Profit):
240,000 gp - 168,000 gp = 72,000 gp
So, one suggestion would be that, after the 1st year of getting the mine going, you could give a party of 5 the following (depending on how well the mine is producing and based on the Lifestyle Expenses you desire):
Second year of operation:
Third year of operation:
Fourth year of operation:
Other possible scenarios could be that the mine does really well for a few years but then the mine runs dry of gold and platinum, dramatically dropping the party's share of the mine's profits.
One interesting story element is that Gundren needs a whole lot of startup capital (168,000 gp in this scenario) to get this mine producing (The Bank of Neverwinter? Lord Neverember? A loan from a guild?)
Anyways, did the above for fun. Hope you find it useful.