I am looking into hosting my first online campaign via foundry. Obviously, I will need some practice and such, however, I also need to offset my costs. Is it better to go with a flat per session price or is a pay-what-you-want/tipping method a better solution? I prefer the pay-what-you-want approach but I'm concerned this may lead to players looking for favors. If I go with a flat fee, what is a fair asking price?
I've never done this myself, but I would suggest looking at paid listings on here, Foundry & Roll20 and see what the average is.
I would expect the flat fee per game because ot the modern video game mentality of P2W means pay more money, get more powerful items.
As far as what the fair asking price is, I would imagine that is based on your talent. If you're a professional improvisor and voice actor with years of experience you would be able to charge more than a guy who is just starting out. I know this isn't very helpful, but it's the best I can offer.
They do a great job of making the entire process easy, will connect you to players who are looking for paid games, and give you something you can research your pricing around.
So, my spin on this is based off my career. I discovered acting, directing, and theatre sound design through Amateur Dramatics. I then went and trained and made it a career. I did the same way back when with IT - making a career out of my hobby of tinkering with Win3.1-XP, Linux, and the like.
Taking a hobby and making money out of it isn't sunshine and rainbows. I don't know how it works in other countries but here in the UK there's a legal responsibility to register as self-employed when your gross income (turnover pre-expenses) is £1000 (I believe the US has it at $400 net). Four player game played weekly, charging £5 per session would meet this threshold. What I'm getting at is that administration often follows these sorts of attempts to cover expenses for a hobby. It's worth going in eyes open and considering the tax laws of the country in which you reside.
For my part, I did consider and have been invited to run paid campaigns. I've run one off events, but ended up refusing the pay because I didn't want a hobby to become a job again. I currently run three campaigns of D&D 5e. I have 15 players across those games, some playing weekly, some playing fortnightly. My players have been amazingly kind enough to donate some funds towards the running costs of the games. Something I never specifically asked for, and something for which there was no impetus to do so. I am incredibly fortunate that these donations covered the vast majority of the running costs of the game.
My costs are as follows: D&D Beyond Master - £60pa Owlbear Rodeo - £40pa Inkarnate (Mapping) - £25pa Heroforge (Minis/Tokens) - £60
Total - £185 per annum 'Suggested' Donation per player (DM included) = £11.56 per year
If I were to need to charge for games and make some money from them this is how I would work out the cost per game:
52 sessions per year (weekly) is wage cost of £3120 Plus Costs of £185 = £3305
Based on just four players that works out at £15.89 per session, per player Based on just six players that works out at £10.59 per session, per player
If I ran more than one game a week, assuming the same adventure, or campaign setting and reusing assets and plans the numbers change a little. Let's say three games per week of four hours each with six players.
Cost per session to player: £10.20 per session (£530.28 per year).
So, my belief is that if you are simply looking for help to cover the costs of running the game (foundry or whatever else you're using), just ask your players 'hey, would you be willing to chip into the costs?' This way you run a game as normal, and set the boundries.
Thanks for the advice! Yeah, going with a flat fee probably is the easiest for everyone and should ensure things are fair.
@martintheactor - I haven't even considered the complications this would cause for taxes and such. The math you are getting is around what I calculated, but I will likely run my first game or two with a steep discount since there will likely be issues my first time running games online. I was considering going with a pay-what-you-want method as this seemed closer to chipping into the costs. If I could ensure a good game group, I'd just run the game for free, but my experiences as a player in online games have not been great thus far.
Thanks for the advice! Yeah, going with a flat fee probably is the easiest for everyone and should ensure things are fair.
@martintheactor - I haven't even considered the complications this would cause for taxes and such. The math you are getting is around what I calculated, but I will likely run my first game or two with a steep discount since there will likely be issues my first time running games online. I was considering going with a pay-what-you-want method as this seemed closer to chipping into the costs. If I could ensure a good game group, I'd just run the game for free, but my experiences as a player in online games have not been great thus far.
I've actually had a rather pleasant experience with players I didn't know online. But then I've long ago got to the point that I simply remove players if there is a playstyle mismatch. I'd be more than willing (once I've double checked with players) to let you observe one of my sessions if that's of interest to you? Message me if that would be of interest. I'm by no means perfect and most definitely have my own style, but if it helps, do let me know.
Thanks for the advice! Yeah, going with a flat fee probably is the easiest for everyone and should ensure things are fair.
@martintheactor - I haven't even considered the complications this would cause for taxes and such. The math you are getting is around what I calculated, but I will likely run my first game or two with a steep discount since there will likely be issues my first time running games online. I was considering going with a pay-what-you-want method as this seemed closer to chipping into the costs. If I could ensure a good game group, I'd just run the game for free, but my experiences as a player in online games have not been great thus far.
I've actually had a rather pleasant experience with players I didn't know online. But then I've long ago got to the point that I simply remove players if there is a playstyle mismatch. I'd be more than willing (once I've double checked with players) to let you observe one of my sessions if that's of interest to you? Message me if that would be of interest. I'm by no means perfect and most definitely have my own style, but if it helps, do let me know.
Thanks for the offer but I'm going to decline. I am pretty solid with running a game with friends. It is just online, it has been not going as well in games I tried to play in, mostly due to the total randomness of play styles in the formed group. Something you may be able to advise me on is how you vet for play styles? In the games I've played, a group of internet randos join up. After a session or 2 the starting 6 whittles down into 3-4. The GM then starts trolling for new players which takes a long time and usually results in even more randomness and the campaign kind of moves to being on life support. The GMs are fine to good (IMO) but the players are... yeesh. As someone who falls into that fine to good GM spectrum, I'm worried my games will have the same fate. Is there some magic ingredient that can make an online campaign work? (Please don't say session 0... every campaign has had one of these and it hasn't prevented these games from falling apart)
Thanks for the offer but I'm going to decline. I am pretty solid with running a game with friends. It is just online, it has been not going as well in games I tried to play in, mostly due to the total randomness of play styles in the formed group. Something you may be able to advise me on is how you vet for play styles? In the games I've played, a group of internet randos join up. After a session or 2 the starting 6 whittles down into 3-4. The GM then starts trolling for new players which takes a long time and usually results in even more randomness and the campaign kind of moves to being on life support. The GMs are fine to good (IMO) but the players are... yeesh. As someone who falls into that fine to good GM spectrum, I'm worried my games will have the same fate. Is there some magic ingredient that can make an online campaign work? (Please don't say session 0... every campaign has had one of these and it hasn't prevented these games from falling apart)
I wish I knew if there was a secret sauce. My best guess is that I tend to be able to get a feel from an initial video call. I'll chat and get to grips with the dynamic there. I find players relatively new to TTRPGs are easier to get along with. One of my screening questions usually filters out those who are hardcore fans of Critical Role - I'm not the DM for those types of players. My experience has usually been starting with 6 players, and dropping to either 4 or 5 due to playstyle incompatibilities.
Mostly though, I think I've been lucky and fortunate.
I was thinking of starting with a basic questionnaire and then doing a quick screen call with prospective players. Plus having a post that tries to make it clear the play styles I'm looking for - and those that will hate playing in my game. I'm also thinking that trying to create a more personal connection with the internet randos may help, so I may require camera or other activities to encourage people being real. If I had more experience I would consider even running tryout one-shots to use as scouting for players for longer campaigns.
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I am looking into hosting my first online campaign via foundry. Obviously, I will need some practice and such, however, I also need to offset my costs. Is it better to go with a flat per session price or is a pay-what-you-want/tipping method a better solution? I prefer the pay-what-you-want approach but I'm concerned this may lead to players looking for favors. If I go with a flat fee, what is a fair asking price?
I've never done this myself, but I would suggest looking at paid listings on here, Foundry & Roll20 and see what the average is.
I would expect the flat fee per game because ot the modern video game mentality of P2W means pay more money, get more powerful items.
As far as what the fair asking price is, I would imagine that is based on your talent. If you're a professional improvisor and voice actor with years of experience you would be able to charge more than a guy who is just starting out. I know this isn't very helpful, but it's the best I can offer.
I've done this before and will do it again. I strongly suggest checking out https://startplaying.games/
They do a great job of making the entire process easy, will connect you to players who are looking for paid games, and give you something you can research your pricing around.
So, my spin on this is based off my career. I discovered acting, directing, and theatre sound design through Amateur Dramatics. I then went and trained and made it a career. I did the same way back when with IT - making a career out of my hobby of tinkering with Win3.1-XP, Linux, and the like.
Taking a hobby and making money out of it isn't sunshine and rainbows. I don't know how it works in other countries but here in the UK there's a legal responsibility to register as self-employed when your gross income (turnover pre-expenses) is £1000 (I believe the US has it at $400 net). Four player game played weekly, charging £5 per session would meet this threshold. What I'm getting at is that administration often follows these sorts of attempts to cover expenses for a hobby. It's worth going in eyes open and considering the tax laws of the country in which you reside.
For my part, I did consider and have been invited to run paid campaigns. I've run one off events, but ended up refusing the pay because I didn't want a hobby to become a job again. I currently run three campaigns of D&D 5e. I have 15 players across those games, some playing weekly, some playing fortnightly. My players have been amazingly kind enough to donate some funds towards the running costs of the games. Something I never specifically asked for, and something for which there was no impetus to do so. I am incredibly fortunate that these donations covered the vast majority of the running costs of the game.
My costs are as follows:
D&D Beyond Master - £60pa
Owlbear Rodeo - £40pa
Inkarnate (Mapping) - £25pa
Heroforge (Minis/Tokens) - £60
Total - £185 per annum
'Suggested' Donation per player (DM included) = £11.56 per year
If I were to need to charge for games and make some money from them this is how I would work out the cost per game:
Planning per session - 1 hour @ Minimum Wage (£12) - £12
Session itself - 4 hours @ Minimum Wage - £48
52 sessions per year (weekly) is wage cost of £3120
Plus Costs of £185 = £3305
Based on just four players that works out at £15.89 per session, per player
Based on just six players that works out at £10.59 per session, per player
If I ran more than one game a week, assuming the same adventure, or campaign setting and reusing assets and plans the numbers change a little. Let's say three games per week of four hours each with six players.
'Wage' cost: £9360 (3120x3)
Subscription/Service costs: £185
Total: £9545
Cost per session to player: £10.20 per session (£530.28 per year).
So, my belief is that if you are simply looking for help to cover the costs of running the game (foundry or whatever else you're using), just ask your players 'hey, would you be willing to chip into the costs?' This way you run a game as normal, and set the boundries.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Thanks for the advice! Yeah, going with a flat fee probably is the easiest for everyone and should ensure things are fair.
@martintheactor - I haven't even considered the complications this would cause for taxes and such. The math you are getting is around what I calculated, but I will likely run my first game or two with a steep discount since there will likely be issues my first time running games online. I was considering going with a pay-what-you-want method as this seemed closer to chipping into the costs. If I could ensure a good game group, I'd just run the game for free, but my experiences as a player in online games have not been great thus far.
I've actually had a rather pleasant experience with players I didn't know online. But then I've long ago got to the point that I simply remove players if there is a playstyle mismatch. I'd be more than willing (once I've double checked with players) to let you observe one of my sessions if that's of interest to you? Message me if that would be of interest. I'm by no means perfect and most definitely have my own style, but if it helps, do let me know.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Thanks for the offer but I'm going to decline. I am pretty solid with running a game with friends. It is just online, it has been not going as well in games I tried to play in, mostly due to the total randomness of play styles in the formed group. Something you may be able to advise me on is how you vet for play styles?
In the games I've played, a group of internet randos join up. After a session or 2 the starting 6 whittles down into 3-4. The GM then starts trolling for new players which takes a long time and usually results in even more randomness and the campaign kind of moves to being on life support. The GMs are fine to good (IMO) but the players are... yeesh. As someone who falls into that fine to good GM spectrum, I'm worried my games will have the same fate. Is there some magic ingredient that can make an online campaign work? (Please don't say session 0... every campaign has had one of these and it hasn't prevented these games from falling apart)
I wish I knew if there was a secret sauce. My best guess is that I tend to be able to get a feel from an initial video call. I'll chat and get to grips with the dynamic there. I find players relatively new to TTRPGs are easier to get along with. One of my screening questions usually filters out those who are hardcore fans of Critical Role - I'm not the DM for those types of players. My experience has usually been starting with 6 players, and dropping to either 4 or 5 due to playstyle incompatibilities.
Mostly though, I think I've been lucky and fortunate.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
I was thinking of starting with a basic questionnaire and then doing a quick screen call with prospective players. Plus having a post that tries to make it clear the play styles I'm looking for - and those that will hate playing in my game. I'm also thinking that trying to create a more personal connection with the internet randos may help, so I may require camera or other activities to encourage people being real. If I had more experience I would consider even running tryout one-shots to use as scouting for players for longer campaigns.