The setup is that I have two echo knights who use their echoes to engage in a very quick samurai duel, where it ends within two or so strikes, in which either echo disappears. They repeat the duel to a certain amount of wins to succeed the competition overall. I'm looking for a simple yet somewhat strategic dice mini game to simulate this. Does anyone have any suggestions of systems?
For now I'm working on War via dice, where highest roll wins (each roll is hidden initially), but if the high number is a certain amount above the lowest they overexert and lose. Then there's a public die that's rolled to influence the result of either roll somehow. I'd also like to integrate something along the lines of stances, for instance a stance that reduces the amount to overexert. If anyone wants to expand on this, that would be appreciated too.
Well if you want to go really simple then rock, paper, scissors would accomplish the goal, a draw reflects a move where both combatants counter each others moves while a win reflects on combatant using a more effective counter move than their opponent.
of course to expand on your system where highest roll wins except in the case of over exertion, the public roll could always be the max difference between rolls before exertion occurs but while it does give the lower roll a small chance of turning things around it still favours the higher roll, and whether or not this is a fun system to use I could not really say.
To be honest it sounds like you are trying to overcomplicate something that honestly does not need to be all that complicated, if it were me I would probably just have normal combat rules and settle it that way, what are the classes and abilities of the combatants you are pitting together and why does this particular combat need special rules?
Honestly, D&D isn't very good at running duels because the actions available to the characters aren't complex enough. We can try to adapt the Iaido dueling system from Legend of the Five Rings (the gold standard for samurai duels in my opinion) but we're only going to be able to do so much because D&D isn't set up for this. L5R breaks down a duel into the phases: assessment, ready, and strike. Here's how I would run those in D&D:
Phase 1: Assessment.
The duelists lock eyes, each taking the measure of the other, looking for weaknesses.
Each character makes an Insight Check and a Deception Check; a character can choose to forgo the Deception Check if desired, treating their roll as a 1. If a character's Insight Check beats their opponent's Deception Check, that character learns one piece of information about their opponent. If the character's Insight Check beats the opponent's Deception Check by 3 or more, they learn an additional piece it information for each increment of 3. (Note: both characters can "win" or "lose" this phase simultaneously)
The information that can be learned at this phase includes:
-Any of the opponent's Attribute modifiers (choose 1 attribute each time you select this information)
-The opponent's class levels, if any
-The opponent's attack bonus
-The opponent's armor class
Either character can forfeit the duel after the assessment phase if they conclude they have no chance of winning. This is treated as a loss.
Phase 2: Preparation.
The duelists grasp their sword hilts. They center themselves, assuming battle stances. Like bent reeds, they ready themselves for sudden action.
At this phase, the duelists assume one of 5 stances, each of which grants certain stat changes. The stances are as follows:
-Full Attack: the character takes a -5 penalty to AC; they gain a +2 bonus to their Initiative and Attack modifiers.
-Attack: the character takes a -2 penalty to AC; they gain a +1 bonus to their Initiative and Attack modifiers.
-Neutral: no stat modifiers.
-Defense: the character takes a -3 penalty to their Initiative modifier; they gain a +2 Bonus to their AC.
-Full Defense: the character takes a -3 penalty to their Initiative and Attack modifiers; they gain a +4 bonus to their AC.
If you choose to go more than one round, you can add "the stance my opponent used last round" to the information a duelist can gain in the Assessment phase.
Phase 3: Strike.
The duelists' steel decides their fate.
Both characters roll initiative, applying any modifiers from stances. The winner then rolls an attack; typically, duels end at first blood, so if the attack hits, the duel is over and the first duelist is the winner. If the first duelist misses, the second duelist gets a chance to strike; if this attack hits, the duel is over and the second duelist is the winner. If the second duelist misses, the duel may be called a draw, or initiative order may proceed until a hit is scored.
As you've probably noticed, this type of duel will place heavy emphasis on going first and being able to hit, and as such it will strongly favor Dex-based characters. This is intentional. Samurai duels are about speed and technique, rather than raw power, so this represents the style well in my opinion. Ultimately this is still "try to roll big number" with extra steps, but there are at least a few decision points in the process, and it limits the time you spend standing still whacking each other with sticks.
To answer your question at the end, my player is a Lizardman echo knight, and we've established that the warriors of his culture are all echo knights (shedding their spiritual skin on demand, as it were). This short duel using their echoes is a test of skill, almost like a non lethal shootout duel, and it has some strong ties to their culture as a whole.
I figured I was on the verge of overcomplication, but I also felt that normal combat was over-bloated for a 1v1 battle in this scenario, not to mention would simply take too long. And if we just took their echoes as the sole combatants, which die in one hit, then it's just a simple roll fest to beat ac. I wanted to add just a single choice somehow to adjust odds of hitting, simulating adjusting their stance.
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The setup is that I have two echo knights who use their echoes to engage in a very quick samurai duel, where it ends within two or so strikes, in which either echo disappears. They repeat the duel to a certain amount of wins to succeed the competition overall. I'm looking for a simple yet somewhat strategic dice mini game to simulate this. Does anyone have any suggestions of systems?
For now I'm working on War via dice, where highest roll wins (each roll is hidden initially), but if the high number is a certain amount above the lowest they overexert and lose. Then there's a public die that's rolled to influence the result of either roll somehow. I'd also like to integrate something along the lines of stances, for instance a stance that reduces the amount to overexert. If anyone wants to expand on this, that would be appreciated too.
Well if you want to go really simple then rock, paper, scissors would accomplish the goal, a draw reflects a move where both combatants counter each others moves while a win reflects on combatant using a more effective counter move than their opponent.
of course to expand on your system where highest roll wins except in the case of over exertion, the public roll could always be the max difference between rolls before exertion occurs but while it does give the lower roll a small chance of turning things around it still favours the higher roll, and whether or not this is a fun system to use I could not really say.
To be honest it sounds like you are trying to overcomplicate something that honestly does not need to be all that complicated, if it were me I would probably just have normal combat rules and settle it that way, what are the classes and abilities of the combatants you are pitting together and why does this particular combat need special rules?
Honestly, D&D isn't very good at running duels because the actions available to the characters aren't complex enough. We can try to adapt the Iaido dueling system from Legend of the Five Rings (the gold standard for samurai duels in my opinion) but we're only going to be able to do so much because D&D isn't set up for this. L5R breaks down a duel into the phases: assessment, ready, and strike. Here's how I would run those in D&D:
Phase 1: Assessment.
The duelists lock eyes, each taking the measure of the other, looking for weaknesses.
Each character makes an Insight Check and a Deception Check; a character can choose to forgo the Deception Check if desired, treating their roll as a 1. If a character's Insight Check beats their opponent's Deception Check, that character learns one piece of information about their opponent. If the character's Insight Check beats the opponent's Deception Check by 3 or more, they learn an additional piece it information for each increment of 3. (Note: both characters can "win" or "lose" this phase simultaneously)
The information that can be learned at this phase includes:
-Any of the opponent's Attribute modifiers (choose 1 attribute each time you select this information)
-The opponent's class levels, if any
-The opponent's attack bonus
-The opponent's armor class
Either character can forfeit the duel after the assessment phase if they conclude they have no chance of winning. This is treated as a loss.
Phase 2: Preparation.
The duelists grasp their sword hilts. They center themselves, assuming battle stances. Like bent reeds, they ready themselves for sudden action.
At this phase, the duelists assume one of 5 stances, each of which grants certain stat changes. The stances are as follows:
-Full Attack: the character takes a -5 penalty to AC; they gain a +2 bonus to their Initiative and Attack modifiers.
-Attack: the character takes a -2 penalty to AC; they gain a +1 bonus to their Initiative and Attack modifiers.
-Neutral: no stat modifiers.
-Defense: the character takes a -3 penalty to their Initiative modifier; they gain a +2 Bonus to their AC.
-Full Defense: the character takes a -3 penalty to their Initiative and Attack modifiers; they gain a +4 bonus to their AC.
If you choose to go more than one round, you can add "the stance my opponent used last round" to the information a duelist can gain in the Assessment phase.
Phase 3: Strike.
The duelists' steel decides their fate.
Both characters roll initiative, applying any modifiers from stances. The winner then rolls an attack; typically, duels end at first blood, so if the attack hits, the duel is over and the first duelist is the winner. If the first duelist misses, the second duelist gets a chance to strike; if this attack hits, the duel is over and the second duelist is the winner. If the second duelist misses, the duel may be called a draw, or initiative order may proceed until a hit is scored.
As you've probably noticed, this type of duel will place heavy emphasis on going first and being able to hit, and as such it will strongly favor Dex-based characters. This is intentional. Samurai duels are about speed and technique, rather than raw power, so this represents the style well in my opinion. Ultimately this is still "try to roll big number" with extra steps, but there are at least a few decision points in the process, and it limits the time you spend standing still whacking each other with sticks.
To answer your question at the end, my player is a Lizardman echo knight, and we've established that the warriors of his culture are all echo knights (shedding their spiritual skin on demand, as it were). This short duel using their echoes is a test of skill, almost like a non lethal shootout duel, and it has some strong ties to their culture as a whole.
I figured I was on the verge of overcomplication, but I also felt that normal combat was over-bloated for a 1v1 battle in this scenario, not to mention would simply take too long. And if we just took their echoes as the sole combatants, which die in one hit, then it's just a simple roll fest to beat ac. I wanted to add just a single choice somehow to adjust odds of hitting, simulating adjusting their stance.