One of my players DMs every now and again and then have recently tried this system and they suggest i try it:
Initiative simplified:
Everyone rolls for initiative
One roll at dm discretion for enemy initiative.
Everyone who rolled higher than enemy initiative has their turn at the same time
Then after the enemies have their turn it just switches between players and enemies.
They said the pros were that it was faster, with everyone having their turn at the same time there was less to keep track of, there was more team work.
I’m a little reticent because in harder combat having enemies go at different timings introduces all sorts of decision changing elements and makes for quite tense tactical play… but the teamwork that this system would introduce is quite a tempting prospect.
It seems like they wouldn’t really have their turns at the same time. All 4 (or however many of them) are rolling dice at once? I’d think one person would go then another. So you’re actually just letting them choose who goes when?
But the big thing that jumps out at me, if that’s the case, is the stunts you can pull with the many effects that last until the start of your next turn. Let the monk go first, stunning strike, let the rest of the party hit the bad guy. Then next round, the monk goes last so the party gets two chances for the price of one stun. Or let people run around when they like and then drop in the AoE spell when it’s convenient. I guess there’s still some tactics involved, but it seems like it would really favor the PCs, in a game that’s already stacked in favor of the PCs.
I've seen (and tried) initative variants similar to what you described. The problem is that it outright breaks some enemies and some encounter. If players use [Tooltip Not Found] or a similar variant - this does help. This works for the enemies too...reinforcements become problematic to introduce if that's something you do in combat.
Another impact is on Legendary Actions. If an enemy has legendary actions, knowing the initiative is kinda important. When my group tried out 'Team Initiative' it just didn't work for 5e. I don't think the system is really built for that.
The we have environmental actions - like lair actions these usually occur on a defined initiative number. I'm not saying it's impossible to work around these things, but it actually increases the DM workload.
Honestly, D&D 5e combat just drags compared to other systems. There isn't much of a way to get around it. I would say though, that teamwork is entirely possible even with RAW initiative. How many players out there lay down some grease, for a fellow party member to light on fire (this is something that I allow because it's a cool teamwork moment no matter what is said in Crawford's twitter feed). Such teamwork moments are entirely possible as long as planning and conversation is encouraged between the party.
Frankly, if you can get a decent enough initiative tracker then it really isn't all that difficult or complicated. The best way to speed up initiative that I've found though is simply going in order of Dex modifier. That way there's a reliable order for the party at least. If you have someone with a +6, +5, +3, +2, +2, +1 you know what order the party go in. Then you just slide the enemy into that list. But, ultimately it will be a case of what you think will work at your table.
The problem with unified initiative is that it produces really big swings that can't really be responded to. If you have multiple monsters and they're all on the same initiative, they might be able to focus fire one character and just delete them; split up initiative and the players have a better chance of doing something to rescue the character who is under fire.
Sounds like the system that Critical Role's new Daggerheart system uses. I've not tried it myself, I'm actually like initiative as it stands, but there's plenty of youtubers out there who have picked it apart since DAggerheart was announced
The problem with unified initiative is that it produces really big swings that can't really be responded to. If you have multiple monsters and they're all on the same initiative, they might be able to focus fire one character and just delete them; split up initiative and the players have a better chance of doing something to rescue the character who is under fire.
Yeah, this is all well and good until the enemy gets the higher initiative and takes two people out of the fight before any players get a turn.
This option is called "Side Initiative" and is listed in the DMG on page 270 under combat variants.
It even lists the most obvious benefit - increased team work since the players go in any order they choose so they can make sure that the one that needs to cast the spell goes before the one who wants to take advantage of it, or the fighter can shove the target prone before everyone else piles on. The downside is that whichever side gets initiative can cause significant damage to the other side before they get a chance to go. A party that gets surprised and loses initiative allows every opponent two turns of attacks before they get a chance to go and that is likely to result in PC deaths if the opponents are played intelligently. Similarly, if the PCs get initiative and focus fire, you can expect the opponents to go down quickly. This can make it more challenging to balance such an encounter. Of course, rolling individually, you can still get he same result but the odds are less.
"Side Initiative
Recording initiative for each PC and monster, arranging everyone in the correct order, and remembering where you are in the list can bog the game down. If you want quicker combats, at the risk of those combats becoming unbalanced, try using the side initiative rule.
Under this variant, the players roll a d20 for their initiative as a group, or side. You also roll a d20. Neither roll receives any modifiers. Whoever rolls highest wins initiative. In case of a tie, keep rerolling until the tie is broken.
When it’s a side’s turn, the members of that side can act in any order they choose. Once everyone on the side has taken a turn, the other side goes. A round ends when both sides have completed their turns.
If more than two sides take part in a battle, each side rolls for initiative. Sides act from the highest roll to lowest. Combat continues in the initiative order until the battle is complete.
This variant encourages teamwork and makes your life as a DM easier, since you can more easily coordinate monsters. On the downside, the side that wins initiative can gang up on enemies and take them out before they have a chance to act."
One of my players DMs every now and again and then have recently tried this system and they suggest i try it:
Initiative simplified:
Everyone rolls for initiative
One roll at dm discretion for enemy initiative.
Everyone who rolled higher than enemy initiative has their turn at the same time
Then after the enemies have their turn it just switches between players and enemies.
They said the pros were that it was faster, with everyone having their turn at the same time there was less to keep track of, there was more team work.
I’m a little reticent because in harder combat having enemies go at different timings introduces all sorts of decision changing elements and makes for quite tense tactical play… but the teamwork that this system would introduce is quite a tempting prospect.
I would love to get some people weigh in!
It seems like they wouldn’t really have their turns at the same time. All 4 (or however many of them) are rolling dice at once? I’d think one person would go then another. So you’re actually just letting them choose who goes when?
But the big thing that jumps out at me, if that’s the case, is the stunts you can pull with the many effects that last until the start of your next turn. Let the monk go first, stunning strike, let the rest of the party hit the bad guy. Then next round, the monk goes last so the party gets two chances for the price of one stun.
Or let people run around when they like and then drop in the AoE spell when it’s convenient. I guess there’s still some tactics involved, but it seems like it would really favor the PCs, in a game that’s already stacked in favor of the PCs.
I've seen (and tried) initative variants similar to what you described. The problem is that it outright breaks some enemies and some encounter. If players use [Tooltip Not Found] or a similar variant - this does help. This works for the enemies too...reinforcements become problematic to introduce if that's something you do in combat.
Another impact is on Legendary Actions. If an enemy has legendary actions, knowing the initiative is kinda important. When my group tried out 'Team Initiative' it just didn't work for 5e. I don't think the system is really built for that.
The we have environmental actions - like lair actions these usually occur on a defined initiative number. I'm not saying it's impossible to work around these things, but it actually increases the DM workload.
Honestly, D&D 5e combat just drags compared to other systems. There isn't much of a way to get around it. I would say though, that teamwork is entirely possible even with RAW initiative. How many players out there lay down some grease, for a fellow party member to light on fire (this is something that I allow because it's a cool teamwork moment no matter what is said in Crawford's twitter feed). Such teamwork moments are entirely possible as long as planning and conversation is encouraged between the party.
Frankly, if you can get a decent enough initiative tracker then it really isn't all that difficult or complicated. The best way to speed up initiative that I've found though is simply going in order of Dex modifier. That way there's a reliable order for the party at least. If you have someone with a +6, +5, +3, +2, +2, +1 you know what order the party go in. Then you just slide the enemy into that list. But, ultimately it will be a case of what you think will work at your table.
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The problem with unified initiative is that it produces really big swings that can't really be responded to. If you have multiple monsters and they're all on the same initiative, they might be able to focus fire one character and just delete them; split up initiative and the players have a better chance of doing something to rescue the character who is under fire.
Thank you, that is really helpful
Sounds like the system that Critical Role's new Daggerheart system uses. I've not tried it myself, I'm actually like initiative as it stands, but there's plenty of youtubers out there who have picked it apart since DAggerheart was announced
Yeah, this is all well and good until the enemy gets the higher initiative and takes two people out of the fight before any players get a turn.
This option is called "Side Initiative" and is listed in the DMG on page 270 under combat variants.
It even lists the most obvious benefit - increased team work since the players go in any order they choose so they can make sure that the one that needs to cast the spell goes before the one who wants to take advantage of it, or the fighter can shove the target prone before everyone else piles on. The downside is that whichever side gets initiative can cause significant damage to the other side before they get a chance to go. A party that gets surprised and loses initiative allows every opponent two turns of attacks before they get a chance to go and that is likely to result in PC deaths if the opponents are played intelligently. Similarly, if the PCs get initiative and focus fire, you can expect the opponents to go down quickly. This can make it more challenging to balance such an encounter. Of course, rolling individually, you can still get he same result but the odds are less.
"Side Initiative
Recording initiative for each PC and monster, arranging everyone in the correct order, and remembering where you are in the list can bog the game down. If you want quicker combats, at the risk of those combats becoming unbalanced, try using the side initiative rule.
Under this variant, the players roll a d20
for their initiative as a group, or side. You also roll a d20
. Neither roll receives any modifiers. Whoever rolls highest wins initiative. In case of a tie, keep rerolling until the tie is broken.
When it’s a side’s turn, the members of that side can act in any order they choose. Once everyone on the side has taken a turn, the other side goes. A round ends when both sides have completed their turns.
If more than two sides take part in a battle, each side rolls for initiative. Sides act from the highest roll to lowest. Combat continues in the initiative order until the battle is complete.
This variant encourages teamwork and makes your life as a DM easier, since you can more easily coordinate monsters. On the downside, the side that wins initiative can gang up on enemies and take them out before they have a chance to act."
Thank you! I was sure I’d heard of this approach before!!