In an older post of mine I talked about how I was making a sci Fi dnd campaign. This fight is an actually balanced fight, and it is going well. However one of my low wisdom players (rogue 5) the frightful presence kept them out of nearly an entire fight. (It was kinda funny, for me.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Well not to be the cloud in the sunshine but I doubt it was fun for your rogue.
I never introduce a mechanic into a session the group does not have the ability to counter. If anything once he saved once he should have been immune to subsequent fears.
Also there is no way a l5 group is fighting a dragon unless you took great liberties with scaling down the dragon in which case its more of a young dragon than an adult. Or unless you are letting them have max stats and hp and a slew of magic items in which case they are not effectively level 5.
I hope they are all having fun but I would be mindful of shutting down a player for an entire session - the object is for everyone to have fun.
If the DM wants to step in and give the characters super powers then anything is possible. As long as the players are having fun then all is good.
However, either the party isn't level 5 or it isn't a reskinned ancient blue dragon.
Frightful presence - DC20 wisdom save - a typical tier 2 character with 18 wis and proficiency in wisdom saves (a cleric or druid for example) has a +7 to saves. These folks fail that check more than 50% of the time. Everyone else without proficiency and perhaps a 14-16 wis as a secondary stat will need to roll a 17-18 to pass. So typical level 5 tier 2 characters will mostly be cowering in fear (the rogue wouldn't be the only one) unless you've provided them with some uber gear or other boosts not typically available to a level 5.
Now lets consider its attacks - it gets a bite and 2 claws - all +16 to hit - unless you have given them some uber sci fi armor of AC30 then every attack is going to hit and even against an AC30 it will hit on a 14 or more ... against a still really good AC20 for a level 5 - it hits on a 4+ (85%) of the time. The bite is an average of 20 damage, the claws are 16 each for a typical attack of 52 damage. How many hit points does a level 5 character have? D10 characters with 16 con = 49 ... notice that 49 < 52 which is the average damage from the dragon's normal attacks each round. One character should die every round just from basic attacks.
This does not take into account Legendary Actions like the Wing Buffet requiring a DC24 dex save. Needless to say, most level "5"s won't pass a DC24 dex save.
Finally there is the breath weapon - DC23 dex save for an average of 88 damage - save for 1/2 which is 44. Keep in mind that most characters at level 5 have fewer hit points than the fighter above so that even if they pass this save, they still die.
The point I'm making is that this can't be a reskinned Ancient Blue Dragon vs a level 5 party since the level 5 party is dead without a huge amount of DM intervention in terms of special abilities/magic items/other effects so that even if the character sheet says level 5 ... the party really isn't.
Final point :), if it is fun watching one of your players be bored and frustrated because they can't do anything against an opponent because they just fail save after save .. do you think they are having fun? :) .. do you want your players to come back?
Anyway, as I mentioned at the beginning, if you and your players are having fun then that is really all that matters :) ... enjoy the game ... but in most other people's games a Ancient Blue Dragon vs a level 5 party only comes out one way.
In an older post of mine I talked about how I was making a sci Fi dnd campaign. This fight is an actually balanced fight, and it is going well. However one of my low wisdom players (rogue 5) the frightful presence kept them out of nearly an entire fight. (It was kinda funny, for me.)
If it is funny for you then you shouldn't be DMing. Your goal is to challenge the players not keep them from being able to do things.
And as other people have said, there is no way they are taking on an ancient dragon at level 5. The breath weapon would tpk the party long before they win.
My level 6 party did well against a young dragon, but an ancient dragon would have easily tpked them.
They actually slew it, yes the rogue had some trouble, but they had some major buffs for the fight, including but not limited to massive hp increase. I only actually killed one character, and that was the character who did over 300 damage to the dragon in the fight. My setting was set up in a more sci Fi one, in which I have them mech suits, which I can post the stats here if you'd want. My party actually enjoyed the fight and even the player who got vaporized took it with good grace and a smile. It was not impossible, it was set up to be beatable and give me an excuse to give them several levels for the next part. And I think some of your stats might be wrong, because unless I used an adult and mistakes it for an ancient, the Wis save was DC 17, and the dex save was DC 20. Yes, I was a bit mean on the rogue so I decided to lesson my use of multiattack and frightful presence to bring them in the fight more. If you were to ask my party, they would say they enjoyed the fight as I asked for there thoughts, and it was clear they liked it. The only one that I was a bit mean to was the rogue, who I realized needed some kindness, which I gave midway through the fight. I admit It was a bit much on the rogue, but I did intentionally make this fight one made to show them the power of higher monsters and show them the power they might experience one day.
Here's the stats for an ... Ancient Blue Dragon . Sounds like you used an Adult Blue, there's no way a level 5 party slays an Ancient Blue Dragon unless the DM basically kills it for them. A single use of an Ancient Blue Dragon's breath weapon would likely kill 2 (more if they didn't scatter properly).
Here's the stats for an ... Ancient Blue Dragon . Sounds like you used an Adult Blue, there's no way a level 5 party slays an Ancient Blue Dragon unless the DM basically kills it for them. A single use of an Ancient Blue Dragon's breath weapon would likely kill 2 (more if they didn't scatter properly).
It sounds like while they were level 5 players but they weren't using level 5 stat blocks. They had mech suits that made them functionally higher level. I suspect something like the magic item Mighty Servant of Leuk-o that becomes the monster Mighty Servant of Leuk-o
In an older post of mine I talked about how I was making a sci Fi dnd campaign. This fight is an actually balanced fight, and it is going well. However one of my low wisdom players (rogue 5) the frightful presence kept them out of nearly an entire fight. (It was kinda funny, for me.)
What is the point of them levelling up then, or is your campaign ended at level 6 or 7? An ancient dragon is end-game tier 4 content, if level 5 characters can beat it, why are there any threats in the world at all? Plenty of NPCs are more powerful than level 5 characters, so they should be able to take care of any threats instead of your party.
In an older post of mine I talked about how I was making a sci Fi dnd campaign. This fight is an actually balanced fight, and it is going well. However one of my low wisdom players (rogue 5) the frightful presence kept them out of nearly an entire fight. (It was kinda funny, for me.)
What is the point of them levelling up then, or is your campaign ended at level 6 or 7? An ancient dragon is end-game tier 4 content, if level 5 characters can beat it, why are there any threats in the world at all? Plenty of NPCs are more powerful than level 5 characters, so they should be able to take care of any threats instead of your party.
It's actually often very effective to give a taste of higher level power early. It gives a sense of what they are working towards and lets you use the higher level rules in controlled bursts that avoid some of the issues you get with those rules like people making endless simulacrums ect...
That more powerful characters exist doesn't really matter. That's arguably an issue with all campaigns and most stories. Its just part of the core suspension of disbelief that main characters of the story are important. That's always an illusion constructed by the author
They actually slew it, yes the rogue had some trouble, but they had some major buffs for the fight, including but not limited to massive hp increase. I only actually killed one character, and that was the character who did over 300 damage to the dragon in the fight. My setting was set up in a more sci Fi one, in which I have them mech suits, which I can post the stats here if you'd want. My party actually enjoyed the fight and even the player who got vaporized took it with good grace and a smile. It was not impossible, it was set up to be beatable and give me an excuse to give them several levels for the next part. And I think some of your stats might be wrong, because unless I used an adult and mistakes it for an ancient, the Wis save was DC 17, and the dex save was DC 20. Yes, I was a bit mean on the rogue so I decided to lesson my use of multiattack and frightful presence to bring them in the fight more. If you were to ask my party, they would say they enjoyed the fight as I asked for there thoughts, and it was clear they liked it. The only one that I was a bit mean to was the rogue, who I realized needed some kindness, which I gave midway through the fight. I admit It was a bit much on the rogue, but I did intentionally make this fight one made to show them the power of higher monsters and show them the power they might experience one day.
If you are going to increase the PCs HP and everything else, why have then go against an Ancient Dragon in the first place?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In an older post of mine I talked about how I was making a sci Fi dnd campaign. This fight is an actually balanced fight, and it is going well. However one of my low wisdom players (rogue 5) the frightful presence kept them out of nearly an entire fight. (It was kinda funny, for me.)
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Well not to be the cloud in the sunshine but I doubt it was fun for your rogue.
I never introduce a mechanic into a session the group does not have the ability to counter. If anything once he saved once he should have been immune to subsequent fears.
Also there is no way a l5 group is fighting a dragon unless you took great liberties with scaling down the dragon in which case its more of a young dragon than an adult. Or unless you are letting them have max stats and hp and a slew of magic items in which case they are not effectively level 5.
I hope they are all having fun but I would be mindful of shutting down a player for an entire session - the object is for everyone to have fun.
If the DM wants to step in and give the characters super powers then anything is possible. As long as the players are having fun then all is good.
However, either the party isn't level 5 or it isn't a reskinned ancient blue dragon.
Frightful presence - DC20 wisdom save - a typical tier 2 character with 18 wis and proficiency in wisdom saves (a cleric or druid for example) has a +7 to saves. These folks fail that check more than 50% of the time. Everyone else without proficiency and perhaps a 14-16 wis as a secondary stat will need to roll a 17-18 to pass. So typical level 5 tier 2 characters will mostly be cowering in fear (the rogue wouldn't be the only one) unless you've provided them with some uber gear or other boosts not typically available to a level 5.
Now lets consider its attacks - it gets a bite and 2 claws - all +16 to hit - unless you have given them some uber sci fi armor of AC30 then every attack is going to hit and even against an AC30 it will hit on a 14 or more ... against a still really good AC20 for a level 5 - it hits on a 4+ (85%) of the time. The bite is an average of 20 damage, the claws are 16 each for a typical attack of 52 damage. How many hit points does a level 5 character have? D10 characters with 16 con = 49 ... notice that 49 < 52 which is the average damage from the dragon's normal attacks each round. One character should die every round just from basic attacks.
This does not take into account Legendary Actions like the Wing Buffet requiring a DC24 dex save. Needless to say, most level "5"s won't pass a DC24 dex save.
Finally there is the breath weapon - DC23 dex save for an average of 88 damage - save for 1/2 which is 44. Keep in mind that most characters at level 5 have fewer hit points than the fighter above so that even if they pass this save, they still die.
The point I'm making is that this can't be a reskinned Ancient Blue Dragon vs a level 5 party since the level 5 party is dead without a huge amount of DM intervention in terms of special abilities/magic items/other effects so that even if the character sheet says level 5 ... the party really isn't.
Final point :), if it is fun watching one of your players be bored and frustrated because they can't do anything against an opponent because they just fail save after save .. do you think they are having fun? :) .. do you want your players to come back?
Anyway, as I mentioned at the beginning, if you and your players are having fun then that is really all that matters :) ... enjoy the game ... but in most other people's games a Ancient Blue Dragon vs a level 5 party only comes out one way.
What he said ^.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If it is funny for you then you shouldn't be DMing. Your goal is to challenge the players not keep them from being able to do things.
And as other people have said, there is no way they are taking on an ancient dragon at level 5. The breath weapon would tpk the party long before they win.
My level 6 party did well against a young dragon, but an ancient dragon would have easily tpked them.
They actually slew it, yes the rogue had some trouble, but they had some major buffs for the fight, including but not limited to massive hp increase. I only actually killed one character, and that was the character who did over 300 damage to the dragon in the fight. My setting was set up in a more sci Fi one, in which I have them mech suits, which I can post the stats here if you'd want. My party actually enjoyed the fight and even the player who got vaporized took it with good grace and a smile. It was not impossible, it was set up to be beatable and give me an excuse to give them several levels for the next part. And I think some of your stats might be wrong, because unless I used an adult and mistakes it for an ancient, the Wis save was DC 17, and the dex save was DC 20. Yes, I was a bit mean on the rogue so I decided to lesson my use of multiattack and frightful presence to bring them in the fight more. If you were to ask my party, they would say they enjoyed the fight as I asked for there thoughts, and it was clear they liked it. The only one that I was a bit mean to was the rogue, who I realized needed some kindness, which I gave midway through the fight. I admit It was a bit much on the rogue, but I did intentionally make this fight one made to show them the power of higher monsters and show them the power they might experience one day.
If your eyes tell you what your seeing how do you know there not lying?
Here's the stats for an ... Ancient Blue Dragon . Sounds like you used an Adult Blue, there's no way a level 5 party slays an Ancient Blue Dragon unless the DM basically kills it for them. A single use of an Ancient Blue Dragon's breath weapon would likely kill 2 (more if they didn't scatter properly).
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
It sounds like while they were level 5 players but they weren't using level 5 stat blocks. They had mech suits that made them functionally higher level. I suspect something like the magic item Mighty Servant of Leuk-o that becomes the monster Mighty Servant of Leuk-o
What is the point of them levelling up then, or is your campaign ended at level 6 or 7? An ancient dragon is end-game tier 4 content, if level 5 characters can beat it, why are there any threats in the world at all? Plenty of NPCs are more powerful than level 5 characters, so they should be able to take care of any threats instead of your party.
It's actually often very effective to give a taste of higher level power early. It gives a sense of what they are working towards and lets you use the higher level rules in controlled bursts that avoid some of the issues you get with those rules like people making endless simulacrums ect...
That more powerful characters exist doesn't really matter. That's arguably an issue with all campaigns and most stories. Its just part of the core suspension of disbelief that main characters of the story are important. That's always an illusion constructed by the author
If you are going to increase the PCs HP and everything else, why have then go against an Ancient Dragon in the first place?