I'm running the Sunless Citadel for a group of friends, who are all fairly new to D&D (as am I). One of my players is completely new to D&D and the others have played LMOP (I was DM).
The problem I'm having is my players are treating D&D like a board game rather than playing the game through their characters. Their mentality is to approach every situation as though there is a correct/optimum move which they must find. They discuss what they're going to do as a group of players before anyone does anything and they treat their characters as board game pieces they're controlling. I'll give you an example of a typical encounter.
I (the DM) describes the scene as outlined in the adventure book and ask what the characters are doing.
Player 1 (rogue) - What do you think we should do?
Player 2 (cleric) - I will walk very carefully into the room and look for traps.
Player 1 (rogue) - I could listen at this door if you like. Shall I do this?
Player 3 (wizard) - I'll walk over here.
Player 4 (paladin) - Maybe we could look for an inscription on the walls?
Progress is always slow because they then discuss amongst themselves what they're going to do before tentatively telling me their decision. Unfortunately, the person playing the rogue is the most indecisive and lacks confidence, not ideal! They seem terrified of doing something wrong even though I've reassured them it's a gentle entry-level adventure and making mistakes is ok. I've said nothing dreadful will happen unless you do something really really stupid, and that's very unlikely going by what you've done so far.
My other issue is I'm pretty sure my players aren't doing any preparation between sessions and are forgetting what they're supposed to be doing. My players do make notes during the session, but I don't think they pick up their stuff again until we next meet up. I send out session summaries and I've even made laminated cards for their character abilities so I'm doing a lot of the hard work for them. Despite this, the rogue frequently forgets to sneak attack or to take a cunning action.
The good thing is I know my friends are all enjoying the game (they've said so without being asked and show genuine enthusiasm). I'm the one who isn't enjoying it as much because I find their lack of preparation and style of play frustrating.
I don't know how I can broach all this without putting people off or making them feel they've been told off for not doing their homework! I appreciate people have busy lives but surely spending 10 minutes reading the session summaries and reminding yourself of your character's abilities isn't too much to ask?
One thing you could try is giving them inspiration for whenever they make quick decisions in the style of their characters. Subtly inform them that you’re doing this, and they’ll (hopefully) slowly get into the habit. If push come to shove, use the timer trick by setting a timer,
EX:Say the players knock out a guard and they also need to free an NPC from jail, the Rogue decides to rob the guard for riches, they could get inspiration to later convince someone the NPC must be freed.
Tell them the game is meant to move at a faster pace - buy a $3 1 min egg sand timer - flip the timer - if they are not acting by the end of the minute random npc's that happen to be wandering by attack the group. This can easily be explained by they are in dangerous places and loitering is not encouraged.
I do not have an issue with a 10 second what's the plan conversation but if its slowing down the game to the point where its not fun for part of the group you need to move it along.
So I don't think your players are actually doing anything wrong, they're just new players who are gradually (some more gradually than others) growing in confidence in their gameplay. If someone isn't familiar with TTRPG's in general, it can take a while before players hit their stride accepting the possibilities of open-ended gaming.
If you find that they're taking too long on simple things, you can help them. The DM is not against the players, and if they are taking 15 minutes of real world time every time they approach a door, you can just tell them "this is the blacksmith's office, you can just tell that it isn't trapped because she uses it frequently to track orders."
The fact that they're so wary of danger though is a great sign because it sounds like they're taking your world and it's stakes seriously, and maybe it is a clue that your players *like* the fantasy of evading traps and danger lurking around every corner-- maybe use more traps so they can further fulfill that fantasy?
As for prep, I really don't think players need to prep much between sessions outside of texting the DM if anything character-related might be going on they don't want the other players to know about yet. Outside of remembering what happened last session and what the overall aim is, I would say that over-prep gets in the way of being open to where the story might take you next session.
If players aren't remembering where they are and what they're doing, I would start each session off with a re-cap of last session if you're not already doing this. Eventually, I'd start asking the players to be the ones to give the recap, selecting one randomly at the top of the session, motivating them to keep track and also helping them ease back into their character's headspace after a week away. Bonus points for players who deliver a recap from their character's perspective.
It also sounds like you might want to have a conversation with your players about your preferred playstyle, and the level of danger and lethality you expect in your campaign. It sounds like in lieu of much direction, your players are falling into a more hard-core dungeon crawly mentality because that's what they're used to from video games and such, so you should tell them how much roleplay and stuff you prefer. Let them know you're more interested in letting them occupy their characters for a while and that you're not trying to kill them unless things are very clearly dire, and that challenges are more often meant to make them spend resources that might make gameplay more challenging, but maybe but lethally so.
From what it sounds like though, there's nothing really wrong with your players, they're just new.
I would also echo that they are new. It takes time to learn the game, and especially if you aren't playing weekly. It's okay to remind your players what their options are, as long as they're having fun.
It's also okay to hustle your players along, either by saying "6 seconds, that's how long this is" in combat or by having events happen while they dither. You can point out to them how time is passing or have events start to happen to them. You'll see this happen all the time in Critical Role, as an example.
As a player, I really have appreciated the times when my GM or one of the more experienced players pointed out a strategy or option I didn't think of or overlooked especially when playing a new class or character. But, there's an art to mixing it up. Reminder sometimes, but also, let the players make mistakes and don't use all their abilities in the most effective manner so that they reflect back and have more reinforcement for making a system where they use their abilities and won't forget. You can't learn without a mix of both.
The gentle pressure to do my turns decisively and efficiently caused me to make scripts for my characters that remind me how my abilities thread together and early on having a reminder of movement, action, bonus action also really helped.
Can confirm timer should work. I used it in a two-player game (I was DM) with a little kid and it stopped this behaviour without really impacting the fun. We used a fidget spinner instead of a normal timer though, since you can both see and hear it running down.
It sounds like you've got two problems. One is the pacing. They are taking too long to decide what to do. There are lots of suggestions here for how to deal with that.
The second problem is that they are only viewing the game through a strategic lens. The solution to that is to give them some non-strategic goals and rewards.
e.g. The players have a set of adventures that occur around a village. In one of the earliest adventures they rescue a small child. From then on, when they return to the village, the have some sort of brief experience with the small child. Maybe they run up and give the character a hug. Maybe they give the character some small trinket that they carved or a cool stone they found.
However, the child and their gifts never, ever contribute to the adventure. There's no moment when the cool stone is the key to a mystical lock or the bandit king turns out to be the child's uncle. The interactions with the child are simply positive interactions with no strategic value.
One word of warning; you said your players are having a good time. Be careful with any changes you make that they don't end up breaking that. If they get annoyed with the child running up in between adventures, just drop it and move on to something else.
It would probably be helpful to point out how the game works. So for example, if you want to check for traps, mention that they don't have to tell you the specifics of how that are going to accomplish that. The are going to roll perception and the result of that roll is going to determine how well they succeed. They don't need the specifics. You aren't going to tell them to roll and if they forgot to mention the wall, say they failed even if they hit the DC.
You can also help speed things up by making sure you ask for rolls and use passive perception. That way they know if there is something important you'll handle prompting them about it.
- Presession Prep: make sure your players have their spells/abilities at the ready
- Gentle reminders of their abilities
If they are exploring a room or a dungeon, you could describe how that statue looks a bit off or how that painting seems to be watching them as a cue for them to investigate "the important stuff."
If they are so certain they're going to find traps, use some traps. Poison traps, arrow traps, pitfalls, false tiles, etc.
Let their exploration pay off in some way.
If you want more roleplay, use their character names. When they meet NPCs, have the NPCs make a point to ask for their character's names. This is a gentle way to reinforce the roleplay aspect of the game.
When things go smoothly, be sure to commend them! Make a note to mention it at the end of session.
> "Rogue, good job on remembering to use your sneak attack. Stealth is vital to your class."
Positive reinforcement and gentle encouragement is the way to go here.
So I don't think your players are actually doing anything wrong, they're just new players who are gradually (some more gradually than others) growing in confidence in their gameplay. If someone isn't familiar with TTRPG's in general, it can take a while before players hit their stride accepting the possibilities of open-ended gaming.
If you find that they're taking too long on simple things, you can help them. The DM is not against the players, and if they are taking 15 minutes of real world time every time they approach a door, you can just tell them "this is the blacksmith's office, you can just tell that it isn't trapped because she uses it frequently to track orders."
The fact that they're so wary of danger though is a great sign because it sounds like they're taking your world and it's stakes seriously, and maybe it is a clue that your players *like* the fantasy of evading traps and danger lurking around every corner-- maybe use more traps so they can further fulfill that fantasy?
As for prep, I really don't think players need to prep much between sessions outside of texting the DM if anything character-related might be going on they don't want the other players to know about yet. Outside of remembering what happened last session and what the overall aim is, I would say that over-prep gets in the way of being open to where the story might take you next session.
If players aren't remembering where they are and what they're doing, I would start each session off with a re-cap of last session if you're not already doing this. Eventually, I'd start asking the players to be the ones to give the recap, selecting one randomly at the top of the session, motivating them to keep track and also helping them ease back into their character's headspace after a week away. Bonus points for players who deliver a recap from their character's perspective.
It also sounds like you might want to have a conversation with your players about your preferred playstyle, and the level of danger and lethality you expect in your campaign. It sounds like in lieu of much direction, your players are falling into a more hard-core dungeon crawly mentality because that's what they're used to from video games and such, so you should tell them how much roleplay and stuff you prefer. Let them know you're more interested in letting them occupy their characters for a while and that you're not trying to kill them unless things are very clearly dire, and that challenges are more often meant to make them spend resources that might make gameplay more challenging, but maybe but lethally so.
From what it sounds like though, there's nothing really wrong with your players, they're just new.
This is exactly what I wanted to say. Your players are having fun, so it's you who needs to adapt, not them. Give them more of what they want, and in the meantime you can steer them into more individualized situations that help them see each of the characters as unique.
It sounds like part of the problem is that they are scared to lose their characters. It might be worth running a one-shot (a fast paced one) with different characters so that they can try some things out without long-term repurcussions. Has the campaign been presented to them as having high stakes which are making them feel like failure isn't an option?
One good thing to do is to ask what the character is doing. It's more immersive to say "What is Grug the Slayer doing?" than "Tiffany, what are you doing?". that subtle difference in the question makes Tiffany think, "What would Grug be doing in this situation?" rather than "What's the best thing I can do in this situation?". Isolate them from their characters, the players aren't part of the story, any more than the DM is. You're just the ones making it!
It's also important to remember that there is no right or wrong way to enjoy D&D, and they may well be playing it the way that they enjoy doing it. However, there is a method I use which keeps all the players engaged and stops main character syndrom from taking place, and that's to hold fire on resolving things until everyone declares what they're doing. So in the case above:
I (the DM) describes the scene as outlined in the adventure book and ask what the characters are doing.
Player 1 (rogue) - What do you think we should do?
Player 2 (cleric) - I will walk very carefully into the room and look for traps.
I (the DM): Ok, so >Cleric's name< is walking slowly into the room looking around. >Rogue's name<, what are you doing
Player 1 (rogue) - I could listen at this door if you like. Shall I do this?
I (the DM): Is that what >Rogue's name< would like to do?
Player 1 (rogue) - yes, I'll listen at the door.
I (the DM) - turn attention to the next player, ask if they don't get the hint: What would >Wizard's name< be doing?
Player 3 (wizard) - I'll walk over here.
I (DM): Awesome, whilst the Rogue sneaks to the door to listen, the cleric is looking around and the wizard is walking over here, >Paladin's name<, hat are you up to?
Player 4 (paladin) - Maybe we could look for an inscription on the walls?
I (DM) - would you like to?
Player 4 (paladin) - Yes.
Ok, then...
I (DM) - Ok, so >Cleric< and >Rogue<, please can you make a perception roll, Paladin, please make an Investigation roll.
(rolls are rolled)
(I now decide the best way to present all of the results with the ensuing carnage)
Ok, so >Paladin<, you see some inscriptions on the wall, and you move to take a closer look. >Cleric<, you are checking the ceiling when you hear a click behind you, and turn to see >Paladin< stepping on a pressure plate. As you were looking for traps, you can see that >Paladin< and >Wizard< are about to be hit by a dart trap, and can choose to help one of them if you wish. >Rogue<, (handed as a note) blotting out the noises in your other ear, you hear the sound of approaching footsteps, but with a 14, you can't tell how many.
The cleric has 1 action to try and help the wizard and the cleric, and then the trap triggers, prompting Dex saves if they're still in the targeting zones. The Rogue has information for doing something on their own and can use them. and everyone has done something in this exchange, rather than wait for one and then the next etc.
This method also helps avoid check-stacking. "I look for traps, that's a 4." "Oh, ok, then I look for traps too... that's a 3". "Ok, then I also look for traps..." and so on.
This is exactly what I wanted to say. Your players are having fun, so it's you who needs to adapt, not them. Give them more of what they want, and in the meantime you can steer them into more individualized situations that help them see each of the characters as unique.
My advice mitigates this a bit. Dungeons and Dragons (and any other RPG) is a collaborative effort. Everyone should be having fun, so as you are adapting to them, they should be adapting to you.
Now, since you are the more experienced player there is a greater burden on you to be the one doing the adapting, but it is still not all one sided. I suggested some techniques earlier, so if you employ things like that then you are definitely adapting, and you are trying to get them to adapt.
Probably the single biggest suggestion I could give you is communication. I often tell people 'the hardest problem for anyone to fix is one they aren't aware of'. Just say to the players 'Hey, this isn't like Heroquest were you are just rolling dice and attacking monsters. I think we would all enjoy it if you guys try to put in a bit more roleplay and worry about strategy a little less. Try to relax and get into your characters a little bit more'.
Just remember that communication is a two way street. They will probably have their own feedback (e.g. It feels goofy referring to each other only by our character names, can we not do that?). Take anything that they say like that and try to listen to them and incorporate it.
At the end of the day there may just be some incompatibility. Not every player is comfortable with things like putting on costumes while some people find it a real blast. Not every DM (such as you) wants their sessions to be an exercise in strategy and tactics where characters are tuned and optimized for specific results. Usually the differences aren't vast enough that people can't find some common ground between them, but it can occur. It doesn't mean that anyone is a good player or a bad player or a good DM or bad DM. It's just people looking for different things. If you can't find a common ground with your friends, don't sweat it. Just set the game aside and see if you can find something else all of you enjoy. You can probably find other people you will be compatible with and you don't want to spoil your friendship over an activity that is meant to be fun.
I've said nothing dreadful will happen unless you do something really really stupid, and that's very unlikely going by what you've done so far.
This isn't actually helpful for new players, because new players don't know how the game works so are afraid of making a mistake and looking dumb in front of the others. This just tells them that if they do make a mistake you are going to think of them as really really stupid, which will just make their anxiety worse. Instead tell them that making mistakes is part of the game and can actually make the story more interesting and exciting, that even if their character dies they can just make a new one and rejoin the party and it will make an interesting story point.
I (the DM) describes the scene as outlined in the adventure book and ask what the characters are doing.
Player 1 (rogue) - What do you think we should do?
Player 2 (cleric) - I will walk very carefully into the room and look for traps.
Player 1 (rogue) - I could listen at this door if you like. Shall I do this?
Player 3 (wizard) - I'll walk over here.
Player 4 (paladin) - Maybe we could look for an inscription on the walls?
As mentioned/demonstrated above, you don't need to wait for them to discuss endlessly and arrive at a collective decision. Give them feedback immediately, if someone says their character does something immediately give them feedback on that don't wait to see if someone else in the party questions that decision, so if the cleric says "I will walk vary carefully into the room and look for traps" immediately jump in and ask for a perception check, while they are rolling you can ask the others what they would like to do. Since your rogue seems shy and nervous, you might want to ask them directly "what would your character like to do?" to encourage them to make decisions as their character and participate.
In just about every way possible there is nothing about the rules of the game, published adventures, or instructions in the player's handbook that would suggest D&D is played in any other way than what you described your players are doing.
In fact the scene you described and the player's response is pretty much how D&D is described on page 7 in the "Playing the Game" section of the book. You have described a minor variation on what the book tells players to do.
I would only add to the above advice by saying that D&D is not a game at all, it's an activity, one that is by design a dynamic thing created through the interaction of the participants. There is no such thing as "a way" you play D&D and no two tables anywhere on earth that play it the same way, there is just the starting point as page 7 describes, and how your players are currently executing this activity.
It's the baseline. What D&D becomes at your table, is not something you will be able to control and you have to make peace with that. If you let it frustrate you, you will destroy the game and that is not a lesson you want to learn the hard way. You can encourage, suggest and even provide examples (the benefit of modern D&D is that we have play examples from other groups you might want to mimic on youtube)... but, in the end, your group is going to settle on a method of playing and there isn't going to be any way for you to enforce an alternative.
I can tell you that your choice of adventure (The Sunless Citadel) is going to re-enforce the type of gaming you're doing right now. Sunless Citadel is a dungeon crawl adventure, the oldest and most classic method of playing D&D and the way you describe it, is EXACTLY how you play that sort of adventure. The reason this is the baseline for D&D, is because it is the oldest, simplest and most easily defined method of playing the game. If there ever was "a way" D&D was played by the majority of people at any point, that is how it was.
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Hi all,
I'd really appreciate some advice.
I'm running the Sunless Citadel for a group of friends, who are all fairly new to D&D (as am I). One of my players is completely new to D&D and the others have played LMOP (I was DM).
The problem I'm having is my players are treating D&D like a board game rather than playing the game through their characters. Their mentality is to approach every situation as though there is a correct/optimum move which they must find. They discuss what they're going to do as a group of players before anyone does anything and they treat their characters as board game pieces they're controlling. I'll give you an example of a typical encounter.
I (the DM) describes the scene as outlined in the adventure book and ask what the characters are doing.
Player 1 (rogue) - What do you think we should do?
Player 2 (cleric) - I will walk very carefully into the room and look for traps.
Player 1 (rogue) - I could listen at this door if you like. Shall I do this?
Player 3 (wizard) - I'll walk over here.
Player 4 (paladin) - Maybe we could look for an inscription on the walls?
Progress is always slow because they then discuss amongst themselves what they're going to do before tentatively telling me their decision. Unfortunately, the person playing the rogue is the most indecisive and lacks confidence, not ideal! They seem terrified of doing something wrong even though I've reassured them it's a gentle entry-level adventure and making mistakes is ok. I've said nothing dreadful will happen unless you do something really really stupid, and that's very unlikely going by what you've done so far.
My other issue is I'm pretty sure my players aren't doing any preparation between sessions and are forgetting what they're supposed to be doing. My players do make notes during the session, but I don't think they pick up their stuff again until we next meet up. I send out session summaries and I've even made laminated cards for their character abilities so I'm doing a lot of the hard work for them. Despite this, the rogue frequently forgets to sneak attack or to take a cunning action.
The good thing is I know my friends are all enjoying the game (they've said so without being asked and show genuine enthusiasm). I'm the one who isn't enjoying it as much because I find their lack of preparation and style of play frustrating.
I don't know how I can broach all this without putting people off or making them feel they've been told off for not doing their homework! I appreciate people have busy lives but surely spending 10 minutes reading the session summaries and reminding yourself of your character's abilities isn't too much to ask?
Any advice would be most welcome! Thanks!
One thing you could try is giving them inspiration for whenever they make quick decisions in the style of their characters. Subtly inform them that you’re doing this, and they’ll (hopefully) slowly get into the habit. If push come to shove, use the timer trick by setting a timer,
EX:Say the players knock out a guard and they also need to free an NPC from jail, the Rogue decides to rob the guard for riches, they could get inspiration to later convince someone the NPC must be freed.
Being new to the game, they may not know what's possible. Do you always roleplay the NPCs in character to model the behavior?
You could also find a good episode of roleplaying of your favorite streamer, and have the group watch an episode so they can see what's possible.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Tell them the game is meant to move at a faster pace - buy a $3 1 min egg sand timer - flip the timer - if they are not acting by the end of the minute random npc's that happen to be wandering by attack the group. This can easily be explained by they are in dangerous places and loitering is not encouraged.
I do not have an issue with a 10 second what's the plan conversation but if its slowing down the game to the point where its not fun for part of the group you need to move it along.
So I don't think your players are actually doing anything wrong, they're just new players who are gradually (some more gradually than others) growing in confidence in their gameplay. If someone isn't familiar with TTRPG's in general, it can take a while before players hit their stride accepting the possibilities of open-ended gaming.
If you find that they're taking too long on simple things, you can help them. The DM is not against the players, and if they are taking 15 minutes of real world time every time they approach a door, you can just tell them "this is the blacksmith's office, you can just tell that it isn't trapped because she uses it frequently to track orders."
The fact that they're so wary of danger though is a great sign because it sounds like they're taking your world and it's stakes seriously, and maybe it is a clue that your players *like* the fantasy of evading traps and danger lurking around every corner-- maybe use more traps so they can further fulfill that fantasy?
As for prep, I really don't think players need to prep much between sessions outside of texting the DM if anything character-related might be going on they don't want the other players to know about yet. Outside of remembering what happened last session and what the overall aim is, I would say that over-prep gets in the way of being open to where the story might take you next session.
If players aren't remembering where they are and what they're doing, I would start each session off with a re-cap of last session if you're not already doing this. Eventually, I'd start asking the players to be the ones to give the recap, selecting one randomly at the top of the session, motivating them to keep track and also helping them ease back into their character's headspace after a week away. Bonus points for players who deliver a recap from their character's perspective.
It also sounds like you might want to have a conversation with your players about your preferred playstyle, and the level of danger and lethality you expect in your campaign. It sounds like in lieu of much direction, your players are falling into a more hard-core dungeon crawly mentality because that's what they're used to from video games and such, so you should tell them how much roleplay and stuff you prefer. Let them know you're more interested in letting them occupy their characters for a while and that you're not trying to kill them unless things are very clearly dire, and that challenges are more often meant to make them spend resources that might make gameplay more challenging, but maybe but lethally so.
From what it sounds like though, there's nothing really wrong with your players, they're just new.
Sounds like they would be perfect for Tomb of Horror!
I would also echo that they are new. It takes time to learn the game, and especially if you aren't playing weekly. It's okay to remind your players what their options are, as long as they're having fun.
It's also okay to hustle your players along, either by saying "6 seconds, that's how long this is" in combat or by having events happen while they dither. You can point out to them how time is passing or have events start to happen to them. You'll see this happen all the time in Critical Role, as an example.
As a player, I really have appreciated the times when my GM or one of the more experienced players pointed out a strategy or option I didn't think of or overlooked especially when playing a new class or character. But, there's an art to mixing it up. Reminder sometimes, but also, let the players make mistakes and don't use all their abilities in the most effective manner so that they reflect back and have more reinforcement for making a system where they use their abilities and won't forget. You can't learn without a mix of both.
The gentle pressure to do my turns decisively and efficiently caused me to make scripts for my characters that remind me how my abilities thread together and early on having a reminder of movement, action, bonus action also really helped.
Can confirm timer should work. I used it in a two-player game (I was DM) with a little kid and it stopped this behaviour without really impacting the fun. We used a fidget spinner instead of a normal timer though, since you can both see and hear it running down.
Here's my thinking on this;
It sounds like you've got two problems. One is the pacing. They are taking too long to decide what to do. There are lots of suggestions here for how to deal with that.
The second problem is that they are only viewing the game through a strategic lens. The solution to that is to give them some non-strategic goals and rewards.
e.g. The players have a set of adventures that occur around a village. In one of the earliest adventures they rescue a small child. From then on, when they return to the village, the have some sort of brief experience with the small child. Maybe they run up and give the character a hug. Maybe they give the character some small trinket that they carved or a cool stone they found.
However, the child and their gifts never, ever contribute to the adventure. There's no moment when the cool stone is the key to a mystical lock or the bandit king turns out to be the child's uncle. The interactions with the child are simply positive interactions with no strategic value.
One word of warning; you said your players are having a good time. Be careful with any changes you make that they don't end up breaking that. If they get annoyed with the child running up in between adventures, just drop it and move on to something else.
It would probably be helpful to point out how the game works. So for example, if you want to check for traps, mention that they don't have to tell you the specifics of how that are going to accomplish that. The are going to roll perception and the result of that roll is going to determine how well they succeed. They don't need the specifics. You aren't going to tell them to roll and if they forgot to mention the wall, say they failed even if they hit the DC.
You can also help speed things up by making sure you ask for rolls and use passive perception. That way they know if there is something important you'll handle prompting them about it.
I suggest,
- Last Session Recap before every session
- Presession Prep: make sure your players have their spells/abilities at the ready
- Gentle reminders of their abilities
If they are exploring a room or a dungeon, you could describe how that statue looks a bit off or how that painting seems to be watching them as a cue for them to investigate "the important stuff."
If they are so certain they're going to find traps, use some traps. Poison traps, arrow traps, pitfalls, false tiles, etc.
Let their exploration pay off in some way.
If you want more roleplay, use their character names. When they meet NPCs, have the NPCs make a point to ask for their character's names. This is a gentle way to reinforce the roleplay aspect of the game.
When things go smoothly, be sure to commend them! Make a note to mention it at the end of session.
> "Rogue, good job on remembering to use your sneak attack. Stealth is vital to your class."
Positive reinforcement and gentle encouragement is the way to go here.
This is exactly what I wanted to say. Your players are having fun, so it's you who needs to adapt, not them. Give them more of what they want, and in the meantime you can steer them into more individualized situations that help them see each of the characters as unique.
It sounds like part of the problem is that they are scared to lose their characters. It might be worth running a one-shot (a fast paced one) with different characters so that they can try some things out without long-term repurcussions. Has the campaign been presented to them as having high stakes which are making them feel like failure isn't an option?
One good thing to do is to ask what the character is doing. It's more immersive to say "What is Grug the Slayer doing?" than "Tiffany, what are you doing?". that subtle difference in the question makes Tiffany think, "What would Grug be doing in this situation?" rather than "What's the best thing I can do in this situation?". Isolate them from their characters, the players aren't part of the story, any more than the DM is. You're just the ones making it!
It's also important to remember that there is no right or wrong way to enjoy D&D, and they may well be playing it the way that they enjoy doing it. However, there is a method I use which keeps all the players engaged and stops main character syndrom from taking place, and that's to hold fire on resolving things until everyone declares what they're doing. So in the case above:
I (the DM) describes the scene as outlined in the adventure book and ask what the characters are doing.
Player 1 (rogue) - What do you think we should do?
Player 2 (cleric) - I will walk very carefully into the room and look for traps.
I (the DM): Ok, so >Cleric's name< is walking slowly into the room looking around. >Rogue's name<, what are you doing
Player 1 (rogue) - I could listen at this door if you like. Shall I do this?
I (the DM): Is that what >Rogue's name< would like to do?
Player 1 (rogue) - yes, I'll listen at the door.
I (the DM) - turn attention to the next player, ask if they don't get the hint: What would >Wizard's name< be doing?
Player 3 (wizard) - I'll walk over here.
I (DM): Awesome, whilst the Rogue sneaks to the door to listen, the cleric is looking around and the wizard is walking over here, >Paladin's name<, hat are you up to?
Player 4 (paladin) - Maybe we could look for an inscription on the walls?
I (DM) - would you like to?
Player 4 (paladin) - Yes.
Ok, then...
I (DM) - Ok, so >Cleric< and >Rogue<, please can you make a perception roll, Paladin, please make an Investigation roll.
(rolls are rolled)
(I now decide the best way to present all of the results with the ensuing carnage)
Ok, so >Paladin<, you see some inscriptions on the wall, and you move to take a closer look. >Cleric<, you are checking the ceiling when you hear a click behind you, and turn to see >Paladin< stepping on a pressure plate. As you were looking for traps, you can see that >Paladin< and >Wizard< are about to be hit by a dart trap, and can choose to help one of them if you wish. >Rogue<, (handed as a note) blotting out the noises in your other ear, you hear the sound of approaching footsteps, but with a 14, you can't tell how many.
The cleric has 1 action to try and help the wizard and the cleric, and then the trap triggers, prompting Dex saves if they're still in the targeting zones. The Rogue has information for doing something on their own and can use them. and everyone has done something in this exchange, rather than wait for one and then the next etc.
This method also helps avoid check-stacking. "I look for traps, that's a 4." "Oh, ok, then I look for traps too... that's a 3". "Ok, then I also look for traps..." and so on.
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My advice mitigates this a bit. Dungeons and Dragons (and any other RPG) is a collaborative effort. Everyone should be having fun, so as you are adapting to them, they should be adapting to you.
Now, since you are the more experienced player there is a greater burden on you to be the one doing the adapting, but it is still not all one sided. I suggested some techniques earlier, so if you employ things like that then you are definitely adapting, and you are trying to get them to adapt.
Probably the single biggest suggestion I could give you is communication. I often tell people 'the hardest problem for anyone to fix is one they aren't aware of'. Just say to the players 'Hey, this isn't like Heroquest were you are just rolling dice and attacking monsters. I think we would all enjoy it if you guys try to put in a bit more roleplay and worry about strategy a little less. Try to relax and get into your characters a little bit more'.
Just remember that communication is a two way street. They will probably have their own feedback (e.g. It feels goofy referring to each other only by our character names, can we not do that?). Take anything that they say like that and try to listen to them and incorporate it.
At the end of the day there may just be some incompatibility. Not every player is comfortable with things like putting on costumes while some people find it a real blast. Not every DM (such as you) wants their sessions to be an exercise in strategy and tactics where characters are tuned and optimized for specific results. Usually the differences aren't vast enough that people can't find some common ground between them, but it can occur. It doesn't mean that anyone is a good player or a bad player or a good DM or bad DM. It's just people looking for different things. If you can't find a common ground with your friends, don't sweat it. Just set the game aside and see if you can find something else all of you enjoy. You can probably find other people you will be compatible with and you don't want to spoil your friendship over an activity that is meant to be fun.
A few additional points not covered above:
This isn't actually helpful for new players, because new players don't know how the game works so are afraid of making a mistake and looking dumb in front of the others. This just tells them that if they do make a mistake you are going to think of them as really really stupid, which will just make their anxiety worse. Instead tell them that making mistakes is part of the game and can actually make the story more interesting and exciting, that even if their character dies they can just make a new one and rejoin the party and it will make an interesting story point.
Player 1 (rogue) - What do you think we should do?
Player 2 (cleric) - I will walk very carefully into the room and look for traps.
Player 1 (rogue) - I could listen at this door if you like. Shall I do this?
Player 3 (wizard) - I'll walk over here.
Player 4 (paladin) - Maybe we could look for an inscription on the walls?
As mentioned/demonstrated above, you don't need to wait for them to discuss endlessly and arrive at a collective decision. Give them feedback immediately, if someone says their character does something immediately give them feedback on that don't wait to see if someone else in the party questions that decision, so if the cleric says "I will walk vary carefully into the room and look for traps" immediately jump in and ask for a perception check, while they are rolling you can ask the others what they would like to do. Since your rogue seems shy and nervous, you might want to ask them directly "what would your character like to do?" to encourage them to make decisions as their character and participate.
Thanks everyone!
There's lots of useful advice here and I'm looking forward to trying some of it.
I've not been asking players to give a recap at the start of the sessions so I'll give that a go.
I really like Thoruk's advice, thanks!
I guess I have to keep nudging/reminding players gently as they learn.
Cheers!
In just about every way possible there is nothing about the rules of the game, published adventures, or instructions in the player's handbook that would suggest D&D is played in any other way than what you described your players are doing.
In fact the scene you described and the player's response is pretty much how D&D is described on page 7 in the "Playing the Game" section of the book. You have described a minor variation on what the book tells players to do.
I would only add to the above advice by saying that D&D is not a game at all, it's an activity, one that is by design a dynamic thing created through the interaction of the participants. There is no such thing as "a way" you play D&D and no two tables anywhere on earth that play it the same way, there is just the starting point as page 7 describes, and how your players are currently executing this activity.
It's the baseline. What D&D becomes at your table, is not something you will be able to control and you have to make peace with that. If you let it frustrate you, you will destroy the game and that is not a lesson you want to learn the hard way. You can encourage, suggest and even provide examples (the benefit of modern D&D is that we have play examples from other groups you might want to mimic on youtube)... but, in the end, your group is going to settle on a method of playing and there isn't going to be any way for you to enforce an alternative.
I can tell you that your choice of adventure (The Sunless Citadel) is going to re-enforce the type of gaming you're doing right now. Sunless Citadel is a dungeon crawl adventure, the oldest and most classic method of playing D&D and the way you describe it, is EXACTLY how you play that sort of adventure. The reason this is the baseline for D&D, is because it is the oldest, simplest and most easily defined method of playing the game. If there ever was "a way" D&D was played by the majority of people at any point, that is how it was.