Hey. So I need some help. I very recently started a campaign and all my players (3) are lvl 1. I was trying to make an NPC (which will be a later boss but will have glimpses earlier in the campaign. which happens to be a lvl 15 wizard) However. one of my players has an AC of 19. He doesn't seem to be breaking any rules. He has a shield which is giving him a +2 and chainmail armor. with a +1 armored bonus. He is a human fighter btw. He seems to be taking advantage of the fact that this is my first campaign (ever) and that I have no experience dming. (I have been in a couple campaigns as a player) I wanted to throw a glimpse of my NPC now, but when I started this, he thinks he can kill the NPC now. I don't know how to handle this. I tried to tell him that his AC was too high for this early in the game but he isn't listening and refuses to change anything. As a new Dm, I have no idea what to do in this situation. Any advice? I'm afraid that his character being OP might cause a lot of problems for me later. He also chose "defence" for his fighter style option. If anyone could help me PLEASE do! I will very greatly appreciate it. And if there's any more information you need about my campaign, or other players please let me know and I will be glad to give it to you
19 AC is perfectly normal, and I wouldn't consider this OP. Don't worry about it, you'll still be able to hit them, and some attacks don't target AC at all and target saving throws instead, so they're not invulnerable.
If you're going to have an enemy NPC, you should try to avoid having them encounter the PCs in situations where the players might decide to take a shot at them. This is both to avoid having to kill them and to avoid them killing the NPC. A first-level party isn't going to be able to touch a level-15 wizard, but as they level up, they're gonna be able to take out higher-level stuff than you think.
(As an aside, you probably shouldn't build your NPC as a character. The classed humanoid monsters are better balanced for the purpose.)
As for the high-AC fighter, mixing in enemies with saving throw attacks will help, and it gives more variety in encounters if you have casters and weapon types. In the long run, it's not going to be a huge problem -- they've front-loaded a defensive build, but they have to trade off offense to do it, so the enemies hit less often, but get more shots in. If encounters are too easy for the players, you can mix in another monster or two to make them tougher. (And encounter balancing is always a thing you need to calibrate for the party -- the CR system isn't great, and is calibrated for a lot of encounters per day.)
Also, if he really wants to go at the NPC now, you're allowed to let him. It's your choice whether they kill him, or just disable him and leave because he's "not worth the effort". (A simple sleep will probably lay him out.)
Also, if he really wants to go at the NPC now, you're allowed to let him. It's your choice whether they kill him, or just disable him and leave because he's "not worth the effort". (A simple sleep will probably lay him out.)
Exactly. A high level spellcaster would plan ahead, so it's entirely possible that they'll have spells like Contingency, Teleport, Plane Shift, or even Clone in place to ensure that even if someone gets the drop on them, they can escape.
I would also recommend never having the party encounter this NPC alone. Big bad guys always have minions, and squishy casters know to have some hired muscle just in case. Give the bad guy two big, but level appropriate (but challenging) minions to be the primary encounter while the bad guy loftily considers the players beneath him, not even deigning to participate in the fight unless their two goons get downed, by which point the bad guy will know the players are a real threat and can escape. The players then realize the two goons were merely a distraction. This leaves the party with the impression that the bad guy must be *really* powerful, if the monsters that gave them so much trouble to take down were so disposable to the bad guy.
I figured out how to get around it. I got the Wizard to flee before they could get to him. I appreciate your advice and will use your tips.
I am using the Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk, but I'm just using the story loosely and I kinda using a lot of my own stuff too. Is this the wrong approach? My players seem to be enjoying the way I'm running it, but should I use the book a little more? Or keep doing what I'm doing?
I’ll also agree that a 19 ac is nothing too exciting at level 1. It’s actually expected for a sword and board tank build.
And also, a level 15 wizard would tpk a level 1 party without even really noticing them. Don’t have the party meet the wizard, have them meet his underlings and work their way up. Did you ever watch the daredevil show on Netflix? In season one, it’s episode 3 before we even hear the BBEG’s name. That’s how you reveal the villian. Slowly. Make them work for it. The party should have to pry the secrets from the world.
Thanks so much for your advice! I definitely think this will help me in the future! I am thinking that the lvl 15 wizard will be a side boss, Im tying it into the main storyline but I wanted to almost have it like they know he exists and have seen him. they just saw a glimpse of his cloak as he ran away. Now we are back to the main part of the storyline, and he won't be seen much again until I have them fight him.
Sorry Y'all, last question, I promise. So I ran the campaign today and one of my players was unable to make it. the other two players are getting XP, should I just give her XP even though she wasn't there with them or wait?
I have it so if a player isn't there for whatever reason they become an NPC for the time while they are out. Should I still give her XP?
This is a table specific thing. I always give full xp to people who miss. For one, in the long term characters with a big spread of levels just gets to be a mess. It’s actually more work for you to manage. For two, I’m an adult playing with other adults, and sometimes life gets in the way. I’m not going to penalize someone for putting other things ahead of playing a game.
Sorry Y'all, last question, I promise. So I ran the campaign today and one of my players was unable to make it. the other two players are getting XP, should I just give her XP even though she wasn't there with them or wait?
I have it so if a player isn't there for whatever reason they become an NPC for the time while they are out. Should I still give her XP?
Sorry Y'all, last question, I promise. So I ran the campaign today and one of my players was unable to make it. the other two players are getting XP, should I just give her XP even though she wasn't there with them or wait?
I have it so if a player isn't there for whatever reason they become an NPC for the time while they are out. Should I still give her XP?
Yes. Give them Xp/loot.
Life happens. Don't punish people for having to miss the game.
It also makes your bookkeeping easier if they're all advancing in lockstep.
Honestly, considering everything that's been said so far, my biggest piece of advice is to be loose and flexible. When you hit limits on what you can do with the book, make it up! D&D and similar games are just an advanced game of Pretend, after all.
I once ran a game where I took two separate adventure books, The Lost Mine of Phandelver & Dragon of Icespire Peak, both of which are set in Phandalin (and the former's the first half of Phandelver & Below: The Shatterd Obelisk), and blended them together with a hefty cup of homebrew. I altered dungeon maps, created new antagonists, changed NPC lore, improvised new NPCs on the fly, and it was a heck of a lot of fun!
In fact, here's a little story from that game:
When my players first encountered the Cragmaw Goblins, one of them asked if there were any banners or other memorabilia to indicate their tribe. I improvised, and said that there were some rusty-red rags with a crudely-drawn bull head on them. Then, when they arrived in town and started investigating the Redbrand Bandits, they drew a connection between the Redbrands and the Cragmaws due to the red banners and scarves. I rolled with it, and decided that these two factions weren't just working for the same boss, but were in cahoots with each other.
When the party stopped by Stonehill Inn, I changed the lore of the innkeeper, making him a dwarf that walks on some three-inch wooden stilts. Whenever I said the words "the thunking sound of wood-on-wood," my players knew exactly who just came into the room, and were always so excited to see him. My players then went to the Sleeping Giant tap house to get some more answers about the Redbrands. When they walked in, I realized that there wasn't any information about the Sleeping Giant's staff or contents (prior to Shattered Obelisk), so I made it up! On the spot, Ol' Eddie the absent-minded bartender was born, and though he only appeared in two sessions, every single one of my players remembers and adores him, because I decided to have fun with him and give him a wacky, memorable personality that I stole straight from a TV show.
My point? The stuff you make up on the spot will, more often than not, be the best parts of your game, because that's the stuff that will naturally fit you and your group best. And once you establish a pattern or motif, such as a color of flag or the meaning of a specific sound, stick with it! Anytime you say something twice, your players will remember it and its meaning. But above all, have fun with it!
Hey. So I need some help. I very recently started a campaign and all my players (3) are lvl 1. I was trying to make an NPC (which will be a later boss but will have glimpses earlier in the campaign. which happens to be a lvl 15 wizard) However. one of my players has an AC of 19. He doesn't seem to be breaking any rules. He has a shield which is giving him a +2 and chainmail armor. with a +1 armored bonus. He is a human fighter btw. He seems to be taking advantage of the fact that this is my first campaign (ever) and that I have no experience dming. (I have been in a couple campaigns as a player) I wanted to throw a glimpse of my NPC now, but when I started this, he thinks he can kill the NPC now. I don't know how to handle this. I tried to tell him that his AC was too high for this early in the game but he isn't listening and refuses to change anything. As a new Dm, I have no idea what to do in this situation. Any advice? I'm afraid that his character being OP might cause a lot of problems for me later. He also chose "defence" for his fighter style option. If anyone could help me PLEASE do! I will very greatly appreciate it. And if there's any more information you need about my campaign, or other players please let me know and I will be glad to give it to you
19 AC is perfectly normal, and I wouldn't consider this OP. Don't worry about it, you'll still be able to hit them, and some attacks don't target AC at all and target saving throws instead, so they're not invulnerable.
Do you think there is anything I can do to get him to not fight this NPC? or should I just let it play out and see what happens?
If you're going to have an enemy NPC, you should try to avoid having them encounter the PCs in situations where the players might decide to take a shot at them. This is both to avoid having to kill them and to avoid them killing the NPC. A first-level party isn't going to be able to touch a level-15 wizard, but as they level up, they're gonna be able to take out higher-level stuff than you think.
(As an aside, you probably shouldn't build your NPC as a character. The classed humanoid monsters are better balanced for the purpose.)
As for the high-AC fighter, mixing in enemies with saving throw attacks will help, and it gives more variety in encounters if you have casters and weapon types. In the long run, it's not going to be a huge problem -- they've front-loaded a defensive build, but they have to trade off offense to do it, so the enemies hit less often, but get more shots in. If encounters are too easy for the players, you can mix in another monster or two to make them tougher. (And encounter balancing is always a thing you need to calibrate for the party -- the CR system isn't great, and is calibrated for a lot of encounters per day.)
Also, if he really wants to go at the NPC now, you're allowed to let him. It's your choice whether they kill him, or just disable him and leave because he's "not worth the effort". (A simple sleep will probably lay him out.)
Exactly. A high level spellcaster would plan ahead, so it's entirely possible that they'll have spells like Contingency, Teleport, Plane Shift, or even Clone in place to ensure that even if someone gets the drop on them, they can escape.
I would also recommend never having the party encounter this NPC alone. Big bad guys always have minions, and squishy casters know to have some hired muscle just in case. Give the bad guy two big, but level appropriate (but challenging) minions to be the primary encounter while the bad guy loftily considers the players beneath him, not even deigning to participate in the fight unless their two goons get downed, by which point the bad guy will know the players are a real threat and can escape. The players then realize the two goons were merely a distraction. This leaves the party with the impression that the bad guy must be *really* powerful, if the monsters that gave them so much trouble to take down were so disposable to the bad guy.
I figured out how to get around it. I got the Wizard to flee before they could get to him. I appreciate your advice and will use your tips.
I am using the Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk, but I'm just using the story loosely and I kinda using a lot of my own stuff too. Is this the wrong approach? My players seem to be enjoying the way I'm running it, but should I use the book a little more? Or keep doing what I'm doing?
I’ll also agree that a 19 ac is nothing too exciting at level 1. It’s actually expected for a sword and board tank build.
And also, a level 15 wizard would tpk a level 1 party without even really noticing them. Don’t have the party meet the wizard, have them meet his underlings and work their way up.
Did you ever watch the daredevil show on Netflix? In season one, it’s episode 3 before we even hear the BBEG’s name. That’s how you reveal the villian. Slowly. Make them work for it. The party should have to pry the secrets from the world.
Thanks so much for your advice! I definitely think this will help me in the future! I am thinking that the lvl 15 wizard will be a side boss, Im tying it into the main storyline but I wanted to almost have it like they know he exists and have seen him. they just saw a glimpse of his cloak as he ran away. Now we are back to the main part of the storyline, and he won't be seen much again until I have them fight him.
Am I doing this correctly? should I follow the book more?
Idk. This is my first campaign so I'm kinda nervous that I'm not doing this correctly
Sooo sorry for asking so many questions, I feel like I'm bothering y'all.
The book is more like... (Captain Barbarossa voice)... guidelines, than actual rules.
Customize as much as you feel comfortable doing, then fall back on the written material when you feel you need more support.
Thanks for Y'all's help! I definitely think this will help me be a better dm!
Great! That's exactly how I've been using the book.
so if I were to change the location of an encounter because I felt it would be better for my style than that would be okay?
Is everyone having fun? If the answer to that is yes, then whatever you do is ok.
This is a table specific thing.
I always give full xp to people who miss. For one, in the long term characters with a big spread of levels just gets to be a mess. It’s actually more work for you to manage.
For two, I’m an adult playing with other adults, and sometimes life gets in the way. I’m not going to penalize someone for putting other things ahead of playing a game.
From my knowledge, yes, everyone is enjoying it. :)
Sorry Y'all, last question, I promise. So I ran the campaign today and one of my players was unable to make it. the other two players are getting XP, should I just give her XP even though she wasn't there with them or wait?
I have it so if a player isn't there for whatever reason they become an NPC for the time while they are out. Should I still give her XP?
Yes. Give them Xp/loot.
Life happens. Don't punish people for having to miss the game.
It also makes your bookkeeping easier if they're all advancing in lockstep.
Honestly, considering everything that's been said so far, my biggest piece of advice is to be loose and flexible. When you hit limits on what you can do with the book, make it up! D&D and similar games are just an advanced game of Pretend, after all.
I once ran a game where I took two separate adventure books, The Lost Mine of Phandelver & Dragon of Icespire Peak, both of which are set in Phandalin (and the former's the first half of Phandelver & Below: The Shatterd Obelisk), and blended them together with a hefty cup of homebrew. I altered dungeon maps, created new antagonists, changed NPC lore, improvised new NPCs on the fly, and it was a heck of a lot of fun!
In fact, here's a little story from that game:
When my players first encountered the Cragmaw Goblins, one of them asked if there were any banners or other memorabilia to indicate their tribe. I improvised, and said that there were some rusty-red rags with a crudely-drawn bull head on them. Then, when they arrived in town and started investigating the Redbrand Bandits, they drew a connection between the Redbrands and the Cragmaws due to the red banners and scarves. I rolled with it, and decided that these two factions weren't just working for the same boss, but were in cahoots with each other.
When the party stopped by Stonehill Inn, I changed the lore of the innkeeper, making him a dwarf that walks on some three-inch wooden stilts. Whenever I said the words "the thunking sound of wood-on-wood," my players knew exactly who just came into the room, and were always so excited to see him. My players then went to the Sleeping Giant tap house to get some more answers about the Redbrands. When they walked in, I realized that there wasn't any information about the Sleeping Giant's staff or contents (prior to Shattered Obelisk), so I made it up! On the spot, Ol' Eddie the absent-minded bartender was born, and though he only appeared in two sessions, every single one of my players remembers and adores him, because I decided to have fun with him and give him a wacky, memorable personality that I stole straight from a TV show.
My point? The stuff you make up on the spot will, more often than not, be the best parts of your game, because that's the stuff that will naturally fit you and your group best. And once you establish a pattern or motif, such as a color of flag or the meaning of a specific sound, stick with it! Anytime you say something twice, your players will remember it and its meaning. But above all, have fun with it!