Hi, veteran DM here. I'm planning to run Out of the Abyss for my players, but I'm seeing that the leveling is mostly based on XP. I've never really liked using XP, but I can't find anything that says what the recommended levels for the chapters and random encounters are, so it's not easy to know when to level them up otherwise. Any advice?
I would be very cautious at early levels and try to be more forgiving during combat encounters until they pick-up few levels. Don't hesitate to let the party escape when they choose to, make moral checks for monsters who's numbers or leader get drop, as well bring forth more allies or enemies when it gets out of hand to facilitate combat or escape.
I like Sly Flourish advices on various D&D adventures as well if you're ever interested.
I'm just finishing up this campaign tomorrow :). The text of the adventure contains the recommended levels for some of the chapters but it is buried. I did not use XP leveling at all, just followed the suggested milestones which more or less works out to 1 level/chapter. The underdark travel represents a huge fraction of the module "clock" time and a small fraction of the fun content or "play" time so I only had a few of the more interesting random encounters to emphasize the feel and dangers of the underdark travel. However, I included all of the mini-dungeons since they were more fleshed out and fun to play. Leveling by XP would seem to require a large number of meaningless random encounters to meet an XP budget for leveling and I decided it wasn't worth my time or the players time since the random encounters generally contributed very little to the narrative.
I found leveling up after each chapter more or less worked out about right. However, it is best to get them to level 2-3 perhaps a bit earlier (Chap 1) even if it means slowing the leveling a bit later since it tends to reduce the luck element in combat. Level 2-3 characters are less likely to be killed on one crit. (Chapter 2 is mostly about the underdark and random encounters so doesn't really constitute a chapter where they could specifically level up. On the other hand, the chapters on Slubludop + travel time/random encounters, Gauntlegrym, Neverlight Grove and Blingdenstone all provide enough content to level the characters.
Here are the leveling comments from the adventure.
Ch.1. Page 4 : "Prisoners of the Drow" assumes the characters start at 1st level, and that they will achieve 2nd level (if not 3rd) by the end of this chapter of the adventure. Given the challenges of the adventure and the dangers of the Underdark you can start the characters at a higher level (2nd or 3rd} to make things a bit easier for the players.
I started them at level 1 in the prison but had some of the other NPCs take the brunt of the attacks during the escape. I also had a couple of random demons show up to distract the guards and engage the drow elite warriors and the priestess since it provides an explanation for why escape was even possible in the first place.
Page 22 also has some suggestions on how to handle it if a character dies - either providing ways to bring them back or ways to introduce a new character into the campaign.
CH. 7: pg 116 : "By the time they reach this point. the characters should be at least 7th level, having overcome countless challenges in their wild and dangerous journey through the locations described in chapters 1 through 6."
Also, read "Gaining Access on page 117. Characters need to be fed bits and pieces on information on how to escape the Underdark as they advance to level 7 but ideally not enough that they can escape before level 7 or so.
pg 118 - Showdown with Ilvara: "STAND AND FIGHT: If the characters stand and fight, or if the drow catch them, they're in for a tough battle. Ilvara alone is a challenge for a group of 8th-level characters, and she is accompanied by her most powerful servants."
Personally, I found this was not an accurate statement. Even with the limitations on items imposed by the campaign, a party of level 7-8 characters should usually mop the floor with the priestess but it may depend on your players and their character choices. By this point in the adventure, you should be able to modify things to result in a decently hazardous encounter without a TPK or feeling like a cakewalk. (This also indicates that characters could be as high as level 8 through chapter 7 depending on how you allow them to level up).
Pg 119: Last page of chapter 7: "LEVEL ADVANCEMENT The characters should be 8th level by the start of the next chapter. If they're not there yet. plan additional encounters so that the characters can earn more experience points during their overland journey to Gauntlgrym. If you'd rather skip the encounters and jump ahead to chapter 8, assume that the characters survive a few harrowing encounters en route (which you can describe or not) and gain enough XP to advance to 8th level by the time they reach Gauntlgrym."
Ch 10: Page 143: "The journey from Mantol-Derith to Gravenhollow should involve sufficient encounters and challenges for the characters to reach 10th level by the time they visit the stone giant library."
Page 143: "Ideally, the characters should be 14th level by the time they crash Zuggtmoy's wedding (chapter 16. "The Fetid Wedding"), and 15th level for the final showdown against the demon lords (sec chapter 17. ''Against the Demon Lords").
Ch 15: page 217: "CONFRONTING THE DEMON LORDS The demon lords are some of the most powerful foes a party of adventurers could face. Indeed, any one of them at full strength could wipe out a group of 15th-level characters with ease."
This can be party dependent. A lot of the demon lords lack ranged damage attacks - especially Demogorgon though he does have a gaze attack but the players can be immune if they avert their eyes.
In my game, the party set the lure in Menzoberanzan so the final battle is taking place in an urban setting. I also followed the suggestion in the adventure of having each of the players take a demon lord for the battle of the demon lords but I had Demogorgon resist the effect of the lure longer than the rest so that the other demon lords could mostly kill each other off before Demogorgon arrives. Demogorgon will take some damage defeating the remaining demon lords and then will be engaged by the party. They could choose to run but that means abandoning the Underdark and eventually the entire world to being conquered by a demon lord which is enough motivation for a lot of parties to decide to engage despite the risks.
Anyway, at this point I have the city filled with all the demons that showed up in the Underdark (not just the demon lords), all pulled their by the lure and all enraged/maddened by the lure so that they are motivated to kill opponents but mostly other demons. I can use this to balance the fight if needed since either drow from the city or some of the lesser demons could join the fight at this point. The book itself also contains suggestions for Allied Forces available to the characters which could also play a role in the final battle. Depending on how it is going, demons could either randomly attack Demogorgon or join Demogorgon attacking the party.
So in summary:
After Ch 1: level 2 or 3
Before Chap 3: level 3 - either after chap 1 while traveling or at a convenient spot
After Ch 3: Sloobludop/Darklake/travel - level 4
Keep in mind that the players could choose to do chapters 4,5 and 6 in any order and could bypass a chapter entirely depending on what route they decide to take on the Darklake and perhaps what sort of guidance/input you give them. In my game, they had the Kuo-toa guide from the prison to guide them across the Darklake after fleeing from the Demogorgon showing up in Sloobludop. I had Demogorgon approach from the North East. As a result, between the guide mentioning the wonders of the dwarven crafters in Gracklestugh and the party not wanting to go in the direction from which Demogorgon appeared - the party chose to follow the shore of the Darklake towards Gracklestugh which makes the sequence of chapters 4 -> 5 -> 6 more likely.
After Ch 4: level 5
After Ch 5: level 6
After Ch 6: level 7
After Ch 7 : level 8
After Ch 8 : This is mostly politics and recruiting allies - there is also an interlude of a few months so I had the party go on a surface adventure and tossed in White Plume Mountain from TftYP just for fun).
After Ch 9: Reach level 9 somewhere between chapter 8/9
After Ch 10: level 10
After Ch 11: level 11
After Ch 12: Interactions with Vizeran - planning - defines next steps.
After Ch 13: level 12
After Ch 14: level 13
After Ch 15: level 14
After Ch 16: level 15 - for final confrontation
After Ch 17: level 16 - end campaign at level 16.
You can play around with the leveling depending on how much content the party does in each chapter but the guidance on what level the characters should be when they hit specific chapters ... level 7 in Chapter 7, level 10 for chapter 11 and level 15 for chapter 17 should hold.
Hope that helps! Good luck! :)
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Hi, veteran DM here. I'm planning to run Out of the Abyss for my players, but I'm seeing that the leveling is mostly based on XP. I've never really liked using XP, but I can't find anything that says what the recommended levels for the chapters and random encounters are, so it's not easy to know when to level them up otherwise. Any advice?
I would be very cautious at early levels and try to be more forgiving during combat encounters until they pick-up few levels. Don't hesitate to let the party escape when they choose to, make moral checks for monsters who's numbers or leader get drop, as well bring forth more allies or enemies when it gets out of hand to facilitate combat or escape.
I like Sly Flourish advices on various D&D adventures as well if you're ever interested.
I'm just finishing up this campaign tomorrow :). The text of the adventure contains the recommended levels for some of the chapters but it is buried. I did not use XP leveling at all, just followed the suggested milestones which more or less works out to 1 level/chapter. The underdark travel represents a huge fraction of the module "clock" time and a small fraction of the fun content or "play" time so I only had a few of the more interesting random encounters to emphasize the feel and dangers of the underdark travel. However, I included all of the mini-dungeons since they were more fleshed out and fun to play. Leveling by XP would seem to require a large number of meaningless random encounters to meet an XP budget for leveling and I decided it wasn't worth my time or the players time since the random encounters generally contributed very little to the narrative.
I found leveling up after each chapter more or less worked out about right. However, it is best to get them to level 2-3 perhaps a bit earlier (Chap 1) even if it means slowing the leveling a bit later since it tends to reduce the luck element in combat. Level 2-3 characters are less likely to be killed on one crit. (Chapter 2 is mostly about the underdark and random encounters so doesn't really constitute a chapter where they could specifically level up. On the other hand, the chapters on Slubludop + travel time/random encounters, Gauntlegrym, Neverlight Grove and Blingdenstone all provide enough content to level the characters.
Here are the leveling comments from the adventure.
Ch.1. Page 4 : "Prisoners of the Drow" assumes the characters start at 1st level, and that they will achieve 2nd level (if not 3rd) by the end of this chapter of the adventure. Given the challenges of the adventure and the dangers of the Underdark you can start the characters at a higher level (2nd or 3rd} to make things a bit easier for the players.
I started them at level 1 in the prison but had some of the other NPCs take the brunt of the attacks during the escape. I also had a couple of random demons show up to distract the guards and engage the drow elite warriors and the priestess since it provides an explanation for why escape was even possible in the first place.
Page 22 also has some suggestions on how to handle it if a character dies - either providing ways to bring them back or ways to introduce a new character into the campaign.
CH. 7: pg 116 : "By the time they reach this point. the characters should be at least 7th level, having overcome countless challenges in their wild and dangerous journey through the locations described in chapters 1 through 6."
Also, read "Gaining Access on page 117. Characters need to be fed bits and pieces on information on how to escape the Underdark as they advance to level 7 but ideally not enough that they can escape before level 7 or so.
pg 118 - Showdown with Ilvara: "STAND AND FIGHT: If the characters stand and fight, or if the drow catch them, they're in for a tough battle. Ilvara alone is a challenge for a group of 8th-level characters, and she is accompanied by her most powerful servants."
Personally, I found this was not an accurate statement. Even with the limitations on items imposed by the campaign, a party of level 7-8 characters should usually mop the floor with the priestess but it may depend on your players and their character choices. By this point in the adventure, you should be able to modify things to result in a decently hazardous encounter without a TPK or feeling like a cakewalk. (This also indicates that characters could be as high as level 8 through chapter 7 depending on how you allow them to level up).
Pg 119: Last page of chapter 7: "LEVEL ADVANCEMENT The characters should be 8th level by the start of the next chapter. If they're not there yet. plan additional encounters so that the characters can earn more experience points during their overland journey to Gauntlgrym. If you'd rather skip the encounters and jump ahead to chapter 8, assume that the characters survive a few harrowing encounters en route (which you can describe or not) and gain enough XP to advance to 8th level by the time they reach Gauntlgrym."
Ch 10: Page 143: "The journey from Mantol-Derith to Gravenhollow should involve sufficient encounters and challenges for the characters to reach 10th level by the time they visit the stone giant library."
Page 143: "Ideally, the characters should be 14th level by the time they crash Zuggtmoy's wedding (chapter 16. "The Fetid Wedding"), and 15th level for the final showdown against the demon lords (sec chapter 17. ''Against the Demon Lords").
Ch 15: page 217: "CONFRONTING THE DEMON LORDS The demon lords are some of the most powerful foes a party of adventurers could face. Indeed, any one of them at full strength could wipe out a group of 15th-level characters with ease."
This can be party dependent. A lot of the demon lords lack ranged damage attacks - especially Demogorgon though he does have a gaze attack but the players can be immune if they avert their eyes.
In my game, the party set the lure in Menzoberanzan so the final battle is taking place in an urban setting. I also followed the suggestion in the adventure of having each of the players take a demon lord for the battle of the demon lords but I had Demogorgon resist the effect of the lure longer than the rest so that the other demon lords could mostly kill each other off before Demogorgon arrives. Demogorgon will take some damage defeating the remaining demon lords and then will be engaged by the party. They could choose to run but that means abandoning the Underdark and eventually the entire world to being conquered by a demon lord which is enough motivation for a lot of parties to decide to engage despite the risks.
Anyway, at this point I have the city filled with all the demons that showed up in the Underdark (not just the demon lords), all pulled their by the lure and all enraged/maddened by the lure so that they are motivated to kill opponents but mostly other demons. I can use this to balance the fight if needed since either drow from the city or some of the lesser demons could join the fight at this point. The book itself also contains suggestions for Allied Forces available to the characters which could also play a role in the final battle. Depending on how it is going, demons could either randomly attack Demogorgon or join Demogorgon attacking the party.
So in summary:
After Ch 1: level 2 or 3
Before Chap 3: level 3 - either after chap 1 while traveling or at a convenient spot
After Ch 3: Sloobludop/Darklake/travel - level 4
Keep in mind that the players could choose to do chapters 4,5 and 6 in any order and could bypass a chapter entirely depending on what route they decide to take on the Darklake and perhaps what sort of guidance/input you give them. In my game, they had the Kuo-toa guide from the prison to guide them across the Darklake after fleeing from the Demogorgon showing up in Sloobludop. I had Demogorgon approach from the North East. As a result, between the guide mentioning the wonders of the dwarven crafters in Gracklestugh and the party not wanting to go in the direction from which Demogorgon appeared - the party chose to follow the shore of the Darklake towards Gracklestugh which makes the sequence of chapters 4 -> 5 -> 6 more likely.
After Ch 4: level 5
After Ch 5: level 6
After Ch 6: level 7
After Ch 7 : level 8
After Ch 8 : This is mostly politics and recruiting allies - there is also an interlude of a few months so I had the party go on a surface adventure and tossed in White Plume Mountain from TftYP just for fun).
After Ch 9: Reach level 9 somewhere between chapter 8/9
After Ch 10: level 10
After Ch 11: level 11
After Ch 12: Interactions with Vizeran - planning - defines next steps.
After Ch 13: level 12
After Ch 14: level 13
After Ch 15: level 14
After Ch 16: level 15 - for final confrontation
After Ch 17: level 16 - end campaign at level 16.
You can play around with the leveling depending on how much content the party does in each chapter but the guidance on what level the characters should be when they hit specific chapters ... level 7 in Chapter 7, level 10 for chapter 11 and level 15 for chapter 17 should hold.
Hope that helps! Good luck! :)