Ok I am building my own story in the Campaign. I have a couple quick questions if any one can help.
1) I am building the entire campaign in DnD Beyond. Is there any limit to the amount of space you can use for in the DM's Notes. This is where the 1st 3 Chapters of the campaign have been written and with all the lore, riddles, story and Dialogue it would be a good 30 pages in the average notebook.
2) Does anyone feel that there is anything wrong with having too much prepared, the adventure is probably going to be between 7 and 8 chapters and each chapter seems to be larger than the previous. There is alot to this storey with alot of world building. I will probably have more questions in the future
I don’t know about the size limit, but from what you’ve written, it seems you may be over prepping and probably railroading.
What if, in session 2, the players don’t pick up on what you’re suggesting and go off in a different direction. What happens to your prep for session 3?
I’m really not sure how you can write dialogue ahead of time, and I’ve been DMing for more than 40 years. You might have ideas about what a person knows, and wants to say, and is willing to say. But you can’t know they’ll get the opportunity to say it. The PCs may never meet them. Or may not speak to them. Or may stop the conversation short. Or ask a question you didn’t anticipate. Or not ask a question you did anticipate. That’s why I’m thinking you might be railroading. It seems like you’ve already decided what they’re going to do.
Lore is fun to write, but your players will likely only interact with a fraction of it — and probably care about only a fraction of that fraction. I’m not saying don’t write it. Just do it because you think it’s fun and you are doing it for you, not the players.
Instead, I’d suggest planning only 1-2 sessions ahead. Writing more can be fun, but your time is a finite resource, best to focus on using it to develop things the players actually see, instead of things they probably won’t.
Thank you for all your input. I guess I should have said Monologue instead of Dialogue. bad choice of words. My players may cut the monologue short but the premises is what I need incase they are not impatient. LOL.
The Basis of the campaign is the party will be trying to prevent the BBEG from assembling a number of items from the creation of time, which he will use for his ultimate goal of total destruction.
Some things I will need and a lot I may need to skip over, but I understand the point of not allowing yourself to get to stuck in the storey as written, just like the rules as written
Ok I am building my own story in the Campaign. I have a couple quick questions if any one can help.
1) I am building the entire campaign in DnD Beyond. Is there any limit to the amount of space you can use for in the DM's Notes. This is where the 1st 3 Chapters of the campaign have been written and with all the lore, riddles, story and Dialogue it would be a good 30 pages in the average notebook.
2) Does anyone feel that there is anything wrong with having too much prepared, the adventure is probably going to be between 7 and 8 chapters and each chapter seems to be larger than the previous. There is alot to this storey with alot of world building. I will probably have more questions in the future
I'd recommend not having your notes in D&D Beyond. Use google docs or subscribe to Microsoft Office. D&D Beyond is bad about crashing and not allowing access to content. Also you never know when it is going to just disappear because they decided to update the way campaigns are handled.
The biggest problem with having too much prepared is that the majority of it could go to waste. You can prepare locations, potential NPCs etc. but do not prepare story/campaign elements and don't assume that the Players are going to ever end up in Location Y. A good example is suppose you make a banker NPC who you plan on double crossing the PCs at some point in the future, and then become the BBEG of the campaign. Then your party meets the banker, don't trust him, and end up attacking and killing him. All the prep involving the banker is wasted. Or worse the party sees the bank and takes option Z bypassing the bank completely and never run into the banker.
Each chapter revolves around an item of creation, so within each of the chapters will be the clues, the lore, the location and what the Item is actually used for. The Main NPC's will be villains and so it is their monologues that are more so scripted. The Good NPC's will definitely be expendable and easy to replace and or eliminate. I am not trying to railroad my players but ask is there too much prep for the essence? So to elaborate, I have 7 Items of creation which equals 7 chapters in different lands with riddles and puzzles, that will point my players to areas of different realms within the DnD lore. (I have exploited other adventure modules for my own ease. LOL) There is also the final battle which will be the 8th Chapter. As a new DM I would be very nervous to make up this magnitude of riddles and the Lore on the fly, but I do intend to allow open progress and development of the players backstories. I hope they all have a good idea of what they want to develop. Session 0 is Saturday.
I think the issue with size is that I have 4 to 5 different ways that the players could stumble on the clues and lore, because as a player I used to love derailing the DM. So when 1 is discovered the others are eliminated or played down. Some of the played down options are written as well.
I have been playing DnD for about 8 years now so I get the basics. I feel that I didn't explain enough in my original post in the haiste in which I wrote it.
I appreciate your advice and Accept that the written campaign can be derailed on a whim of my players, but with this group I think that is there intention LOL. Your advice is well stated, humbly accepted, and completely appreciated.
Hidden by the Dwarven God Gond so wise, Lies the sacred treasure—Mystra's Eye. Defy the Noble and Honorable way, And death shall claim you on that day.
Travel forth to the Sea of Swords so wide, Where Rock and Stone shall be your guide. Your intentions must be pure and true, Or naught but bone shall remain of you.
The Island of Moray calls your name, A journey fraught with mortal claim. Only those who fear not death's cold breath May walk this path and cheat the wreath.
Under Stone and earth you'll hunt and dig, Through tunnels dark where shadows jig. Only when your search runs deep, Can the reward be yours to keep.
So heed these words, ye seekers bold, The price of magic's worth more than gold. But remember well this sacred rhyme: Pure hearts triumph every time.
I will throw out there riddles/puzzles are not for everyone. Typically those challenge the players, not the characters. A character with a 20 int or wis would likely be very good at solving them, but that doesn’t mean that player can. Or the opposite, a player who is good at them might be playing a character who dumped int/wis. Sometimes, players may be annoyed as their character could do the thing, even if the player can not. So, it can be best to check with the players at session 0 and make sure they are interested.
And I understand you aren’t trying to railroad, but still, lots of stuff may be skipped. You may present a problem with what you think is an obvious solution, but that doesn’t mean the players will see it. Or they’ll come up with an idea that lets them skip lots of stuff. That’s why people are saying lore and prep is for yourself. Beyond the first session or two, you really can’t know what the PCs will do. Building the world is one thing, but assuming you know what the characters will do is what can lead to railroading.
I’d also go light on monologues. For one, anything more than a paragraph is boring to sit through — it’s basically the DM having main character syndrome. (And most people, this may not be the case with you, just most people, are not nearly as compelling a writer as they think, let alone actor. Holding someone’s interest through an extended speech is hard.) And for two, if the players are at the point where they are confronting the villian, they should already know why and what happened. If you need a villian monologue to fill in blank spaces, it’s often a sign of weak storytelling. And, of course, they can feel forced. PC 1 asks about x, but your monologue is about y and z, so you shoehorn it in, but it doesn’t quite belong.
Those are some awesome points. I believe that there is a lot there that I will need to review in my own work. I think the responses here have given me a different perspective and now I am going to review the monologues just to see where I can cut the fluff. I think the world and lore building is more for me and unfortunately I may need that until I have a couple sessions under my belt lol.
I would Just like to show my appreciation for those who commented (by being Honest). Other than some lore I have re written almost all of the first session based on session 0. Just the creation and backstories I have gotten has changed alot of things. Even the rewrites seem to be more one or 2 liners that fit the general idea of what i was originally going for. Humbly corrected for sure. Thank you
I would recommend : no amount of prep is too much, and it is better when the world is very elaborate, for example: world that has existed for millennia , it must have a very sophisticated culture and lore etc, and a world like that but with out any background and detail will not hold up to close scrutiny. You don’t want to railroad the characters, but some structure is good, so you don’t go tripping over your self and getting backstories tangled, names wrong, etc when free-handing it. Probably a mid way point is best. If you want a free, pre-developed world, check out some more of my posts in the future because im releasing a new world as well and you are welcome to use it if you are so inclined. On the same note, i understand how fun it is to develop a world. (Believe me;I know.)
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I have traversed all the outer planes- I have traversed all the inner planes- now I travel to the land of earth to ride an airplane.
-They/Them Pronouns-
If you need lore, spells, heaps of information, come my way!!
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Ok I am building my own story in the Campaign. I have a couple quick questions if any one can help.
1) I am building the entire campaign in DnD Beyond. Is there any limit to the amount of space you can use for in the DM's Notes. This is where the 1st 3 Chapters of the campaign have been written and with all the lore, riddles, story and Dialogue it would be a good 30 pages in the average notebook.
2) Does anyone feel that there is anything wrong with having too much prepared, the adventure is probably going to be between 7 and 8 chapters and each chapter seems to be larger than the previous. There is alot to this storey with alot of world building. I will probably have more questions in the future
I don’t know about the size limit, but from what you’ve written, it seems you may be over prepping and probably railroading.
What if, in session 2, the players don’t pick up on what you’re suggesting and go off in a different direction. What happens to your prep for session 3?
I’m really not sure how you can write dialogue ahead of time, and I’ve been DMing for more than 40 years. You might have ideas about what a person knows, and wants to say, and is willing to say. But you can’t know they’ll get the opportunity to say it. The PCs may never meet them. Or may not speak to them. Or may stop the conversation short. Or ask a question you didn’t anticipate. Or not ask a question you did anticipate. That’s why I’m thinking you might be railroading. It seems like you’ve already decided what they’re going to do.
Lore is fun to write, but your players will likely only interact with a fraction of it — and probably care about only a fraction of that fraction. I’m not saying don’t write it. Just do it because you think it’s fun and you are doing it for you, not the players.
Instead, I’d suggest planning only 1-2 sessions ahead. Writing more can be fun, but your time is a finite resource, best to focus on using it to develop things the players actually see, instead of things they probably won’t.
Xalthu
Thank you for all your input. I guess I should have said Monologue instead of Dialogue. bad choice of words. My players may cut the monologue short but the premises is what I need incase they are not impatient. LOL.
The Basis of the campaign is the party will be trying to prevent the BBEG from assembling a number of items from the creation of time, which he will use for his ultimate goal of total destruction.
Some things I will need and a lot I may need to skip over, but I understand the point of not allowing yourself to get to stuck in the storey as written, just like the rules as written
Again Thank you my friend
I'd recommend not having your notes in D&D Beyond. Use google docs or subscribe to Microsoft Office. D&D Beyond is bad about crashing and not allowing access to content. Also you never know when it is going to just disappear because they decided to update the way campaigns are handled.
The biggest problem with having too much prepared is that the majority of it could go to waste. You can prepare locations, potential NPCs etc. but do not prepare story/campaign elements and don't assume that the Players are going to ever end up in Location Y. A good example is suppose you make a banker NPC who you plan on double crossing the PCs at some point in the future, and then become the BBEG of the campaign. Then your party meets the banker, don't trust him, and end up attacking and killing him. All the prep involving the banker is wasted. Or worse the party sees the bank and takes option Z bypassing the bank completely and never run into the banker.
Hey there bhthephoenix
Each chapter revolves around an item of creation, so within each of the chapters will be the clues, the lore, the location and what the Item is actually used for. The Main NPC's will be villains and so it is their monologues that are more so scripted. The Good NPC's will definitely be expendable and easy to replace and or eliminate. I am not trying to railroad my players but ask is there too much prep for the essence? So to elaborate, I have 7 Items of creation which equals 7 chapters in different lands with riddles and puzzles, that will point my players to areas of different realms within the DnD lore. (I have exploited other adventure modules for my own ease. LOL) There is also the final battle which will be the 8th Chapter. As a new DM I would be very nervous to make up this magnitude of riddles and the Lore on the fly, but I do intend to allow open progress and development of the players backstories. I hope they all have a good idea of what they want to develop. Session 0 is Saturday.
I think the issue with size is that I have 4 to 5 different ways that the players could stumble on the clues and lore, because as a player I used to love derailing the DM. So when 1 is discovered the others are eliminated or played down. Some of the played down options are written as well.
I have been playing DnD for about 8 years now so I get the basics. I feel that I didn't explain enough in my original post in the haiste in which I wrote it.
I appreciate your advice and Accept that the written campaign can be derailed on a whim of my players, but with this group I think that is there intention LOL. Your advice is well stated, humbly accepted, and completely appreciated.
Thank you my friend
Hidden by the Dwarven God Gond so wise,
Lies the sacred treasure—Mystra's Eye.
Defy the Noble and Honorable way,
And death shall claim you on that day.
Travel forth to the Sea of Swords so wide,
Where Rock and Stone shall be your guide.
Your intentions must be pure and true,
Or naught but bone shall remain of you.
The Island of Moray calls your name,
A journey fraught with mortal claim.
Only those who fear not death's cold breath
May walk this path and cheat the wreath.
Under Stone and earth you'll hunt and dig,
Through tunnels dark where shadows jig.
Only when your search runs deep,
Can the reward be yours to keep.
So heed these words, ye seekers bold,
The price of magic's worth more than gold.
But remember well this sacred rhyme:
Pure hearts triumph every time.
I will throw out there riddles/puzzles are not for everyone. Typically those challenge the players, not the characters. A character with a 20 int or wis would likely be very good at solving them, but that doesn’t mean that player can. Or the opposite, a player who is good at them might be playing a character who dumped int/wis. Sometimes, players may be annoyed as their character could do the thing, even if the player can not.
So, it can be best to check with the players at session 0 and make sure they are interested.
And I understand you aren’t trying to railroad, but still, lots of stuff may be skipped. You may present a problem with what you think is an obvious solution, but that doesn’t mean the players will see it. Or they’ll come up with an idea that lets them skip lots of stuff. That’s why people are saying lore and prep is for yourself. Beyond the first session or two, you really can’t know what the PCs will do. Building the world is one thing, but assuming you know what the characters will do is what can lead to railroading.
I’d also go light on monologues. For one, anything more than a paragraph is boring to sit through — it’s basically the DM having main character syndrome. (And most people, this may not be the case with you, just most people, are not nearly as compelling a writer as they think, let alone actor. Holding someone’s interest through an extended speech is hard.) And for two, if the players are at the point where they are confronting the villian, they should already know why and what happened. If you need a villian monologue to fill in blank spaces, it’s often a sign of weak storytelling.
And, of course, they can feel forced. PC 1 asks about x, but your monologue is about y and z, so you shoehorn it in, but it doesn’t quite belong.
Xalthu
Those are some awesome points. I believe that there is a lot there that I will need to review in my own work. I think the responses here have given me a different perspective and now I am going to review the monologues just to see where I can cut the fluff. I think the world and lore building is more for me and unfortunately I may need that until I have a couple sessions under my belt lol.
I would Just like to show my appreciation for those who commented (by being Honest). Other than some lore I have re written almost all of the first session based on session 0. Just the creation and backstories I have gotten has changed alot of things. Even the rewrites seem to be more one or 2 liners that fit the general idea of what i was originally going for. Humbly corrected for sure. Thank you
I would recommend : no amount of prep is too much, and it is better when the world is very elaborate, for example: world that has existed for millennia , it must have a very sophisticated culture and lore etc, and a world like that but with out any background and detail will not hold up to close scrutiny. You don’t want to railroad the characters, but some structure is good, so you don’t go tripping over your self and getting backstories tangled, names wrong, etc when free-handing it. Probably a mid way point is best. If you want a free, pre-developed world, check out some more of my posts in the future because im releasing a new world as well and you are welcome to use it if you are so inclined. On the same note, i understand how fun it is to develop a world. (Believe me;I know.)
I have traversed all the outer planes- I have traversed all the inner planes- now I travel to the land of earth to ride an airplane.
-They/Them Pronouns-
If you need lore, spells, heaps of information, come my way!!