My player made lvl 3 and chose Grave Domain sub-class for Cleric and so learned Spare The Dying as a Bonus Action - 30ft range. At lvl 1 He had already learned Spare the Dying cantrip as an Action - touch range.
I am inclined to let him cast Spare the Dying 2 times per round (BA & A) as I will be littering the field with guard corpses next session after they run into a greedy Necro.
Any strong objections or affirmations or opinions from other DMs out there?
He doesn't actually need to have learned it twice -- Grave domain gives says you can cast as a bonus action, not that you must cast, so he can just cast it 2x/turn, both with a range of 30'.
If you can cast a spell as a bonus action, you can cast it as an action on the same turn. There are no rules about how many times you can cast the same spell in one turn, apart from action economy limits. That's why Sorlocks work so well. You can cast Eldritch Blast twice in one turn to do a lot of damage, and if you took two levels in fighter, you can cast it 3 times in one turn.
If you can cast a spell as a bonus action, you can cast it as an action on the same turn.
In general, you cannot. Your regular action cannot be used for bonus action abilities. (But, frankly, it doesn't make any significant problems if a GM rules that you can.)
In this particular case, you can, because the grave domain ability makes it optional to cast as a BA. Thus, it's like how a rogue or monk can BA Dash, and then normal-action Dash.
There are no rules about how many times you can cast the same spell in one turn, apart from action economy limits.
For non-cantrips, you're still limited to the "one slot a turn" rule. (Also quickened spell has its own additional restrictions.)
That's why Sorlocks work so well. You can cast Eldritch Blast twice in one turn to do a lot of damage, and if you took two levels in fighter, you can cast it 3 times in one turn.
It's a bit hacky, but the system as designed kinda does that really well. Having recently dipped back into Pathfinder, it's one of the big benefits of D&D 5e and 5.5e. You can get away with odd power imbalances because the guiderails are just that, guiderails. D&D isn't Pathfinder where there are hard locked things that just don't get to happen. If they've managed to build something in such a way that they've managed to get Spare the Dying as a Bonus Action (which is ordinarily a 1 action spell) then yeah, I see no issue with them doing both in the same turn. After all stabilizing the fallen on the battlefield effectively removes the character from the combat as they're busy doing other stuff. They rest of the party will be picking up the slack.
That said, I would suggest considering how death works in your world. Do commoners get death saving throws? In my games most NPCs don't usually get death saving throws. My current world for example, magic isn't something everyone has or can access. There are no magic item shops and 99% of people can't use magic in any way. So, death saving throws are only for the NPCs who have magic abilities. Spare the dying would do nothing for them, they're simply dead at 0hp.
I mention this only because while none of the rulebooks (iirc) are explicit about this, it has been my understanding that (most) NPCs and monsters just die outright at 0hp. And spare the dying does nothing for a creature who is already dead.
[Double checking my maths]
Yeah 5e literally states: Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. [Player's Handbook, Pp.198, 2014] To my mind that kinda signals that RAW most NPCs die on 0hp. But you do you, if you don't like that ruling throw it in the bin.
5.5e seems to be suggesting that this is only true of Monsters specifically however. It says nothing of NPCs. In which case you've got the room here to make a ruling suitable for your table. [Page 28 of the 2024 PHB]
If you can cast a spell as a bonus action, you can cast it as an action on the same turn.
In general, you cannot. Your regular action cannot be used for bonus action abilities. (But, frankly, it doesn't make any significant problems if a GM rules that you can.)
In this particular case, you can, because the grave domain ability makes it optional to cast as a BA. Thus, it's like how a rogue or monk can BA Dash, and then normal-action Dash.
There are no rules about how many times you can cast the same spell in one turn, apart from action economy limits.
For non-cantrips, you're still limited to the "one slot a turn" rule. (Also quickened spell has its own additional restrictions.)
That's why Sorlocks work so well. You can cast Eldritch Blast twice in one turn to do a lot of damage, and if you took two levels in fighter, you can cast it 3 times in one turn.
Action surge no longer allows the Magic action.
I'm still playing 2014 because I have a lot of issues with the new PHB.
If you can cast a spell as a bonus action, you can cast it as an action on the same turn.
In general, you cannot. Your regular action cannot be used for bonus action abilities. (But, frankly, it doesn't make any significant problems if a GM rules that you can.)
In this particular case, you can, because the grave domain ability makes it optional to cast as a BA. Thus, it's like how a rogue or monk can BA Dash, and then normal-action Dash.
There are no rules about how many times you can cast the same spell in one turn, apart from action economy limits.
For non-cantrips, you're still limited to the "one slot a turn" rule. (Also quickened spell has its own additional restrictions.)
That's why Sorlocks work so well. You can cast Eldritch Blast twice in one turn to do a lot of damage, and if you took two levels in fighter, you can cast it 3 times in one turn.
Action surge no longer allows the Magic action.
I'm still playing 2014 because I have a lot of issues with the new PHB.
Two of your answers are still inaccurate under the 2014 rules, and also giving 2014-rules answers for somebody playing 2024 is perhaps not helpful.
I'm still playing 2014 because I have a lot of issues with the new PHB.
I imagine that what you are attempting to interpret here is Bonus Action section of the PHB (pp.202, 2014).
This section makes it quite clear here, the only way to cast two spells in the same turn is casting two cantrips. One must be labelled 'Bonus Action', one must be labelled 'Action' and they must only be cantrips, NOT levelled spells. That is the rules as written.
Casting a Bonus Action Spell as an action is a house rule. Some GMs allow this, but should be done with care as it's not bending the rules it's outright breaking them. Especially at higher levels it can make play absolutely pointless.
There are rules about how many times you can cast the same spell on a turn that's why casting time is given either as Action, Bonus Action, or as Ritual.
Eldritch Blast cannot be used twice in one turn. It is a spell with a casting time of 1 Action. It could theoretically be subject to the metamagic effect 'Twinned Spell' but that still only gets to target a single enemy. If the GM is smart they just throw loads of smaller enemies instead of single bigger enemies at the Sorlock who keeps cheesing their build. [Edit: I kinda forget about Quickened Spell, so I suppose again theoretically possible...but dreadful use of sorcery points imo]
With the best will in the world, I'm getting the impression you've never actually played through an official starter adventure, or read the ruleset thoroughly. If you're wanting to advise people on mechanics and rules questions it kinda benefits if you understand rules as written first.
Don't misunderstand, if that's the way you rule at your table, and it works for you and your players - that's awesome. Seriously, I'm all for it. Use the rules in the book as a starting point and bend or break them to your table's will. However, when advising others, it's kinda best to double check the rules as written before offering said advice.
I'm still playing 2014 because I have a lot of issues with the new PHB.
I imagine that what you are attempting to interpret here is Bonus Action section of the PHB (pp.202, 2014).
This section makes it quite clear here, the only way to cast two spells in the same turn is casting two cantrips. One must be labelled 'Bonus Action', one must be labelled 'Action' and they must only be cantrips, NOT levelled spells. That is the rules as written.
Just for the record, this is not quite correct. The 2014 rules you linked to do not require both spells to be cantrips. What it says is that if you cast a spell (of any level, including cantrips) as a bonus action, you can't another spell that turn unless it's a full-action cantrip. So, you are allowed to cast a leveled bonus action spell (e.g. Healing Word) and then use your action to cast a cantrip. You can't use your action to cast a second leveled spell.
There are rules about how many times you can cast the same spell on a turn that's why casting time is given either as Action, Bonus Action, or as Ritual.
That's not a rule about how many times a spell can be cast, it's a rules about its cost against your action economy. That typically limits cantrips to 1/turn, but that's just because you only have one action and one bonus action -- if you have something that messes with action economy, you can cast a cantrip more than once. It is technically possible to cast a cantrip 3x during one turn, just requires a peculiar build
In 2014, you need action surge and quickened spell.
In 2024, you need action surge, quickened spell, and an ability (such as war magic) that lets you cast a cantrip without using the Magic action.
My player made lvl 3 and chose Grave Domain sub-class for Cleric and so learned Spare The Dying as a Bonus Action - 30ft range. At lvl 1 He had already learned Spare the Dying cantrip as an Action - touch range.
I am inclined to let him cast Spare the Dying 2 times per round (BA & A) as I will be littering the field with guard corpses next session after they run into a greedy Necro.
Any strong objections or affirmations or opinions from other DMs out there?
Cheers
He doesn't actually need to have learned it twice -- Grave domain gives says you can cast as a bonus action, not that you must cast, so he can just cast it 2x/turn, both with a range of 30'.
If you can cast a spell as a bonus action, you can cast it as an action on the same turn. There are no rules about how many times you can cast the same spell in one turn, apart from action economy limits. That's why Sorlocks work so well. You can cast Eldritch Blast twice in one turn to do a lot of damage, and if you took two levels in fighter, you can cast it 3 times in one turn.
In general, you cannot. Your regular action cannot be used for bonus action abilities. (But, frankly, it doesn't make any significant problems if a GM rules that you can.)
In this particular case, you can, because the grave domain ability makes it optional to cast as a BA. Thus, it's like how a rogue or monk can BA Dash, and then normal-action Dash.
For non-cantrips, you're still limited to the "one slot a turn" rule. (Also quickened spell has its own additional restrictions.)
Action surge no longer allows the Magic action.
It's a bit hacky, but the system as designed kinda does that really well. Having recently dipped back into Pathfinder, it's one of the big benefits of D&D 5e and 5.5e. You can get away with odd power imbalances because the guiderails are just that, guiderails. D&D isn't Pathfinder where there are hard locked things that just don't get to happen. If they've managed to build something in such a way that they've managed to get Spare the Dying as a Bonus Action (which is ordinarily a 1 action spell) then yeah, I see no issue with them doing both in the same turn. After all stabilizing the fallen on the battlefield effectively removes the character from the combat as they're busy doing other stuff. They rest of the party will be picking up the slack.
That said, I would suggest considering how death works in your world. Do commoners get death saving throws? In my games most NPCs don't usually get death saving throws. My current world for example, magic isn't something everyone has or can access. There are no magic item shops and 99% of people can't use magic in any way. So, death saving throws are only for the NPCs who have magic abilities. Spare the dying would do nothing for them, they're simply dead at 0hp.
I mention this only because while none of the rulebooks (iirc) are explicit about this, it has been my understanding that (most) NPCs and monsters just die outright at 0hp. And spare the dying does nothing for a creature who is already dead.
[Double checking my maths]
Yeah 5e literally states: Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. [Player's Handbook, Pp.198, 2014] To my mind that kinda signals that RAW most NPCs die on 0hp. But you do you, if you don't like that ruling throw it in the bin.
5.5e seems to be suggesting that this is only true of Monsters specifically however. It says nothing of NPCs. In which case you've got the room here to make a ruling suitable for your table. [Page 28 of the 2024 PHB]
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Ok,
Thank you guys
I'm still playing 2014 because I have a lot of issues with the new PHB.
Two of your answers are still inaccurate under the 2014 rules, and also giving 2014-rules answers for somebody playing 2024 is perhaps not helpful.
I imagine that what you are attempting to interpret here is Bonus Action section of the PHB (pp.202, 2014).
This section makes it quite clear here, the only way to cast two spells in the same turn is casting two cantrips. One must be labelled 'Bonus Action', one must be labelled 'Action' and they must only be cantrips, NOT levelled spells. That is the rules as written.
With the best will in the world, I'm getting the impression you've never actually played through an official starter adventure, or read the ruleset thoroughly. If you're wanting to advise people on mechanics and rules questions it kinda benefits if you understand rules as written first.
Don't misunderstand, if that's the way you rule at your table, and it works for you and your players - that's awesome. Seriously, I'm all for it. Use the rules in the book as a starting point and bend or break them to your table's will. However, when advising others, it's kinda best to double check the rules as written before offering said advice.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Just for the record, this is not quite correct. The 2014 rules you linked to do not require both spells to be cantrips. What it says is that if you cast a spell (of any level, including cantrips) as a bonus action, you can't another spell that turn unless it's a full-action cantrip. So, you are allowed to cast a leveled bonus action spell (e.g. Healing Word) and then use your action to cast a cantrip. You can't use your action to cast a second leveled spell.
pronouns: he/she/they
That's not a rule about how many times a spell can be cast, it's a rules about its cost against your action economy. That typically limits cantrips to 1/turn, but that's just because you only have one action and one bonus action -- if you have something that messes with action economy, you can cast a cantrip more than once. It is technically possible to cast a cantrip 3x during one turn, just requires a peculiar build