The Empyrean uses CHA as its spellcasting ability having a Mod of 8 and a Save of 8. Let's say the Empyrean must make a WIS save -- that's (d20+13). But the Empyrean's Spell Attack Bonus would be +8 instead of +13 because Charisma is the spellcasting ability, not Wisdom. Is that an example?
Yes, that's a good example of a creature that is not proficient in saving throws with the ability it uses for spellcasting.
It's proficient in Wisdom saves, so its Wisdom saving throw modifier is +13 (6 for its Wisdom modifier plus 7 for its proficiency bonus). It is not proficient in Charisma saves, so its Charisma save modifier is +8 (just the 8 from its Charisma modifier with no proficiency bonus).
The Empyrean's spell attack bonus is +15: 8 from its Charisma modifier and 7 from its proficiency bonus. (In practice, its spell attack modifier does not matter as it doesn't have any spells that use attack rolls.)
No spells that use attack rolls -- that's another interesting point.
It's not much of a stretch to imagine that an immortal would have acquired an array of interesting magic items -- ones that can be used to store and cast spells. Scrolls have Save DCs that are assigned by spell level, so that is well defined. An Empyrean using a scroll -- I think that is within the rules and might not affect its CR of 23. But now the Empyrean picks up a Staff of Power. Its AC would jump from 22 to 24 and his spell saves and attacks would also receive a 2 point advantage. Are monsters allowed to employ magic items? Do the affects of magic items "stack" if it decides to hold two attuned Staffs of Power?
No spells that use attack rolls -- that's another interesting point.
It's not much of a stretch to imagine that an immortal would have acquired an array of interesting magic items -- ones that can be used to store and cast spells. Scrolls have Save DCs that are assigned by spell level, so that is well defined. An Empyrean using a scroll -- I think that is within the rules and might not affect its CR of 23. But now the Empyrean picks up a Staff of Power. Its AC would jump from 22 to 24 and his spell saves and attacks would also receive a 2 point advantage. Are monsters allowed to employ magic items? Do the affects of magic items "stack" if it decides to hold two attuned Staffs of Power?
Yes, monsters are allowed to employ magic items. A Staff of Power specifically has class requirements for its attunement, and an Empyrean doesn't have a character class and therefore can't meet those requirements. However, since the behavior of monsters is generally up to the DM and they don't always need to follow the same rules as player characters for how their abilities are constructed, there's no reason an Empyrean couldn't have a magic item that grants a bonus to spell attacks or spell save DC.
As for your last question, it's not possible to attune to more than one of the same magic item at a time.
No class assignment -- that's another interesting point.
Monsters do not have class assignments, so they cannot employ magic items that have class restrictions. Is that your understanding?
Right. But, again, spells and magic items are generally designed with player character usage in mind, and it's extremely common for DMs to give monsters customized abilities and items that don't fit into the rules intended for PCs.
The simplest way to look at this is that creatures are not the same as player characters, and they do not follow the same rules. While it is generally good practice to use skills and abilities that players understand, there is nothing wrong with giving a creature a unique stat block to make it more challenging or interesting.
As the Dungeon Master, you can modify a creature's stats to fit the narrative and challenge level of your game. For example, you can:
Give a creature a spell save DC that matches or even exceeds the highest one in the group.
Modify its to-hit bonus.
Grant it a few spells, even those not typically on its list, such as fireball, maddening darkness, or meteor swarm.
This creative freedom extends to all aspects of a creature's abilities, including Legendary Actions, Reactions, bonus actions, and the number of attacks it can make. In higher-level games, your creativity is the only thing that matters when designing an encounter.
Thank you James. You speak truly. A good challenge is good fun and the goal is to keep the players engaged and excited. But I am mindful that this is a game -- and games have rules and if we don't adhere to the rules then we are altering the game.
Technically, MM page 7 states, "You may equip monsters with additional gear however you like, using the equipment chapter of the PHB for inspiration.".
Clearly, the rules do not allow monsters to be equipped with items that are not listed in the PHB. So if I equip a Mummy Lord with a Staff of Power, I am not playing RAW and I likely altered the Mummy Lord's CR too. It seems like a reasonable compromise to allow insignificant magic items to be in the hands of a monster as long as they are class appropriate and attuned. But it does make me wonder why a Mummy Lord would have a Staff of Power in his treasure room and not be tempted to use it -- knowing that he had had hundreds of years to study it. :O
Clearly, the rules do not allow monsters to be equipped with items that are not listed in the PHB.
"For inspiration" does not mean "only items in the PHB". It means "use these items as examples". As for equipping a mummy lord with a staff of power: yes, it alters CR.
I've found there's no real difference between giving a creature an item and giving it new skills, abilities, or spells. The only thing that separates the two is whether you want the players to be able to loot that item after the fight. Of course, you can always have the creature and everything it's carrying turn to dust, but I think that's both a common and bad call as a DM.
When you're designing encounters, it's always best to follow the rules for actions, bonus actions, and reactions. It's also best to create abilities for your monsters that are based on the existing ruleset. This is the hardest part of being a DM—correctly balancing an encounter's difficulty to maximize the players' fun without causing a TPK.
Many of the best encounters ride that edge.
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Yes, that's a good example of a creature that is not proficient in saving throws with the ability it uses for spellcasting.
It's proficient in Wisdom saves, so its Wisdom saving throw modifier is +13 (6 for its Wisdom modifier plus 7 for its proficiency bonus). It is not proficient in Charisma saves, so its Charisma save modifier is +8 (just the 8 from its Charisma modifier with no proficiency bonus).
The Empyrean's spell attack bonus is +15: 8 from its Charisma modifier and 7 from its proficiency bonus. (In practice, its spell attack modifier does not matter as it doesn't have any spells that use attack rolls.)
pronouns: he/she/they
No spells that use attack rolls -- that's another interesting point.
It's not much of a stretch to imagine that an immortal would have acquired an array of interesting magic items -- ones that can be used to store and cast spells. Scrolls have Save DCs that are assigned by spell level, so that is well defined. An Empyrean using a scroll -- I think that is within the rules and might not affect its CR of 23. But now the Empyrean picks up a Staff of Power. Its AC would jump from 22 to 24 and his spell saves and attacks would also receive a 2 point advantage. Are monsters allowed to employ magic items? Do the affects of magic items "stack" if it decides to hold two attuned Staffs of Power?
Yes, monsters are allowed to employ magic items. A Staff of Power specifically has class requirements for its attunement, and an Empyrean doesn't have a character class and therefore can't meet those requirements. However, since the behavior of monsters is generally up to the DM and they don't always need to follow the same rules as player characters for how their abilities are constructed, there's no reason an Empyrean couldn't have a magic item that grants a bonus to spell attacks or spell save DC.
As for your last question, it's not possible to attune to more than one of the same magic item at a time.
pronouns: he/she/they
Thank you wagna.
No class assignment -- that's another interesting point.
Monsters do not have class assignments, so they cannot employ magic items that have class restrictions. Is that your understanding?
Right. But, again, spells and magic items are generally designed with player character usage in mind, and it's extremely common for DMs to give monsters customized abilities and items that don't fit into the rules intended for PCs.
pronouns: he/she/they
The simplest way to look at this is that creatures are not the same as player characters, and they do not follow the same rules. While it is generally good practice to use skills and abilities that players understand, there is nothing wrong with giving a creature a unique stat block to make it more challenging or interesting.
As the Dungeon Master, you can modify a creature's stats to fit the narrative and challenge level of your game. For example, you can:
Give a creature a spell save DC that matches or even exceeds the highest one in the group.
Modify its to-hit bonus.
Grant it a few spells, even those not typically on its list, such as fireball, maddening darkness, or meteor swarm.
This creative freedom extends to all aspects of a creature's abilities, including Legendary Actions, Reactions, bonus actions, and the number of attacks it can make. In higher-level games, your creativity is the only thing that matters when designing an encounter.
Thank you James. You speak truly. A good challenge is good fun and the goal is to keep the players engaged and excited. But I am mindful that this is a game -- and games have rules and if we don't adhere to the rules then we are altering the game.
Technically, MM page 7 states, "You may equip monsters with additional gear however you like, using the equipment chapter of the PHB for inspiration.".
Clearly, the rules do not allow monsters to be equipped with items that are not listed in the PHB. So if I equip a Mummy Lord with a Staff of Power, I am not playing RAW and I likely altered the Mummy Lord's CR too. It seems like a reasonable compromise to allow insignificant magic items to be in the hands of a monster as long as they are class appropriate and attuned. But it does make me wonder why a Mummy Lord would have a Staff of Power in his treasure room and not be tempted to use it -- knowing that he had had hundreds of years to study it. :O
"For inspiration" does not mean "only items in the PHB". It means "use these items as examples". As for equipping a mummy lord with a staff of power: yes, it alters CR.
@Ex825er
I've found there's no real difference between giving a creature an item and giving it new skills, abilities, or spells. The only thing that separates the two is whether you want the players to be able to loot that item after the fight. Of course, you can always have the creature and everything it's carrying turn to dust, but I think that's both a common and bad call as a DM.
When you're designing encounters, it's always best to follow the rules for actions, bonus actions, and reactions. It's also best to create abilities for your monsters that are based on the existing ruleset. This is the hardest part of being a DM—correctly balancing an encounter's difficulty to maximize the players' fun without causing a TPK.
Many of the best encounters ride that edge.
$.02