I have an issue and I'm not sure how to get around it. My party are playing a homebrew setting using vanilla D&D 2024 rules (so, no alterations or funky additionals just standard 5.5e in a different physical setting). They have recently crossed into the next tier of adventuring from noob level (they are all now L6) and I was wondering how to make combat shorter and more punchy. I'm finding that if I put lesser numbers of monsters that are individually more powerful for 'balance', I find that the combat takes as long as if I put them up against a mob of lower CR monsters that are individually easier to kill but there's enough of them to make the combat challenging.
How can I make combat still have that 'risk' element to it where it still feels dangerous to them, without making it take most of a session to complete? Is this possible, or is it just a mechanic of the game that the higher your PC's level up, the longer the combat takes?
They are still having fun, but I can tell that combat is going to become a drag for them unless I make it as short, punchy and risky as L1-2 combat was back when they were that level. Is this still possible without it being a total cakewalk?
Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
To some degree it's unavoidable that higher level combat takes longer, just because the players have more toys to use and monsters are more prone to having multiple attacks, but in general the secret to fast but scary combats is using glass cannon monsters.
I have to agree with pantagruel. In general as the level goes up, the amount of time for a combat goes up. About the only thing I’ve found that keeps it moving is players who really know their characters, and spend time between their turn thinking about what they’ll do. Then at least when their turn comes around, they’re ready and it’s just, move my mini and start rolling.
But for some people, that’s just not how they’re wired. I’m playing now with a guy with a wizard, and he really, really wants to optimize each turn, so it turns into a really long turn while he considers: if I move here and cast spell A, vs a different spot and spell A, what would be better, but then hell add in three other places to go, and three other spells to cast. For my group, it’s not a problem. I just mean it as an example of, if he was faster at decisions, the whole process would speed up.
I think the biggest thing is to encourage your players to try to plan their turn while other players are taking theirs. That way, they're actively paying attention and reacting as circumstances change, but still keeping an eye on the prize, as it were. Another thing you can do is to, when you announce who's turn it is, also announce who is next, so they can hurry up and come to a decision while they're "on deck" and don't take up time during their turn deciding at length which action to take.
Another little thing is have players roll damage at the same time as they roll to hit
I think if you roll all of your attacks and damage at the same time, that would help minimize the time increase from higher levels.
I agree with this in principle, but many fears and weapon masteries make it challenging. For example, if you topple the enemy on the first hit, you now have advantage, ditto if you use a vex weapon. If you push an enemy on the first, you could end up moving somewhere before the second attack. Of course that won’t be a problem with every mastery, but it will for some.
Ive also had situations where I rolled both of may attacks and damage all together where one of the hits would have killed the enemy, but the other would not have. Which is easy to solve if you have different color die, I suppose. But then you still end up needing to run over to a different enemy and re-do the attack.
So, like I said, I agree in principle, but it’s not always the answer.
I think if you roll all of your attacks and damage at the same time, that would help minimize the time increase from higher levels.
I agree with this in principle, but many fears and weapon masteries make it challenging. For example, if you topple the enemy on the first hit, you now have advantage, ditto if you use a vex weapon. If you push an enemy on the first, you could end up moving somewhere before the second attack. Of course that won’t be a problem with every mastery, but it will for some.
Ive also had situations where I rolled both of may attacks and damage all together where one of the hits would have killed the enemy, but the other would not have. Which is easy to solve if you have different color die, I suppose. But then you still end up needing to run over to a different enemy and re-do the attack.
So, like I said, I agree in principle, but it’s not always the answer.
True, but it works great at the start of combat, and in 2014.
I also use the tactic of announcing who is following the current player in the initiative order, which I find can help with those players who just zone out when it's not their turn. But ultimately if a player only starts thinking about their options once their turn starts then it remains slow. Maybe we just need to accept this and seek to keep the combat narrative interesting/exciting as it progresses.
One thing I tried once was adding time pressure ( you have 3 minutes before he falls off the cliff! ) but you HAVE to get the time right or there is either no pressure or no way to achieve the goal. One way to get around this is setting a timer and then modifying the time later, but don't let the players catch on. ( They got mad at me )
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Hi All,
First post to the forums so, hi o/
I have an issue and I'm not sure how to get around it. My party are playing a homebrew setting using vanilla D&D 2024 rules (so, no alterations or funky additionals just standard 5.5e in a different physical setting). They have recently crossed into the next tier of adventuring from noob level (they are all now L6) and I was wondering how to make combat shorter and more punchy. I'm finding that if I put lesser numbers of monsters that are individually more powerful for 'balance', I find that the combat takes as long as if I put them up against a mob of lower CR monsters that are individually easier to kill but there's enough of them to make the combat challenging.
How can I make combat still have that 'risk' element to it where it still feels dangerous to them, without making it take most of a session to complete? Is this possible, or is it just a mechanic of the game that the higher your PC's level up, the longer the combat takes?
They are still having fun, but I can tell that combat is going to become a drag for them unless I make it as short, punchy and risky as L1-2 combat was back when they were that level. Is this still possible without it being a total cakewalk?
Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
To some degree it's unavoidable that higher level combat takes longer, just because the players have more toys to use and monsters are more prone to having multiple attacks, but in general the secret to fast but scary combats is using glass cannon monsters.
I have to agree with pantagruel. In general as the level goes up, the amount of time for a combat goes up. About the only thing I’ve found that keeps it moving is players who really know their characters, and spend time between their turn thinking about what they’ll do. Then at least when their turn comes around, they’re ready and it’s just, move my mini and start rolling.
But for some people, that’s just not how they’re wired. I’m playing now with a guy with a wizard, and he really, really wants to optimize each turn, so it turns into a really long turn while he considers: if I move here and cast spell A, vs a different spot and spell A, what would be better, but then hell add in three other places to go, and three other spells to cast. For my group, it’s not a problem. I just mean it as an example of, if he was faster at decisions, the whole process would speed up.
I think the biggest thing is to encourage your players to try to plan their turn while other players are taking theirs. That way, they're actively paying attention and reacting as circumstances change, but still keeping an eye on the prize, as it were. Another thing you can do is to, when you announce who's turn it is, also announce who is next, so they can hurry up and come to a decision while they're "on deck" and don't take up time during their turn deciding at length which action to take.
Another little thing is have players roll damage at the same time as they roll to hit
I think if you roll all of your attacks and damage at the same time, that would help minimize the time increase from higher levels.
I agree with this in principle, but many fears and weapon masteries make it challenging. For example, if you topple the enemy on the first hit, you now have advantage, ditto if you use a vex weapon. If you push an enemy on the first, you could end up moving somewhere before the second attack.
Of course that won’t be a problem with every mastery, but it will for some.
Ive also had situations where I rolled both of may attacks and damage all together where one of the hits would have killed the enemy, but the other would not have. Which is easy to solve if you have different color die, I suppose. But then you still end up needing to run over to a different enemy and re-do the attack.
So, like I said, I agree in principle, but it’s not always the answer.
True, but it works great at the start of combat, and in 2014.
I also use the tactic of announcing who is following the current player in the initiative order, which I find can help with those players who just zone out when it's not their turn. But ultimately if a player only starts thinking about their options once their turn starts then it remains slow. Maybe we just need to accept this and seek to keep the combat narrative interesting/exciting as it progresses.
One thing I tried once was adding time pressure ( you have 3 minutes before he falls off the cliff! ) but you HAVE to get the time right or there is either no pressure or no way to achieve the goal. One way to get around this is setting a timer and then modifying the time later, but don't let the players catch on. ( They got mad at me )