So, to start, my friends and I are probably average D&D players/DMs. Weve all made our fair share of mistakes when DMing or playing as our character. But here recently I feel like there was some unfair story actions taken by the DM that I dont quite agree with.
I will attempt to summarize as best I can here, But at a point in our story arch, our team became divided in a sort of game of thrones type of plot, we were on opposite sides trying to take over the crown of this country. Along the way I, a druid, came across these charms that allowed me to control a demon or more so be able to transform into one. The demon was a Goristro, a very intimidating beast to fight, at least for us. And to give the the other half a fair chance at battling me, the DM gave the other team a ritual that would seal the demon within an amulet that requires no rolls or any kind of ability check, it would just happen. This In my opinion seemed a little unfair at best. If he gave them this power then there would be no use in me using the beast, sure I could attack them with spells in my human form but the DM also thought that through and when the time came to use the demon he had cast an "anti magic bubble" from an NPC making it to where I couldnt use magic or transform into my beasts, which dont require any magic to do so btw. So I was only able to transform into the goristro, which makes no sense because if I couldnt use my wild shape then how could I turn into the demon? And at that point the demon was sealed in the amulet and my character became catatonic and unplayable from there on. The other players would say to me when I called the DM out for metagaming that i only call that into question when things dont go my way even with extremely high dice rolls on other occasions including this one and that they need this to have a fair advantage on my new found ability.
In my biased outlook on this I find the whole situation unfair. There were other ways to weaken the goristro without completely killing my character in the process like instead of the ritual sealing the demon maybe it takes him down to half health and he rolls disadvantage. I was never actually able to use this demon due to these facts as well as in other attempts I had my soul sent to the abyss and the demon completely took me over (again despite rolling a 28 charisma saving throw) I feel I was subject to a form of DM metagaming.
Would someone be able to help me here to determine if this is true? If I am found mistaken I will shake it off and accept it but I honestly believe that I had the whole game against me after gaining the abilities of the demon. I know the phrase is "the DM's word is final" but there has to be an extent where that cant apply and it just becomes unfair, right?
BigKahuna, I appreciate your help in understand this better. I figured as much but he had been playing it off as if we still had control over who would win I just believe he stacked the deck on the other side as we didnt know they had this sealing technique. He made me and my partner leave the room to tell them about it because we would have "metagame" against it.
This is going to sounds harsh, and I am not trying to point fingers or insult you at all. It's a true story that a lot of dms are not very good. As a player you have the option of either dealing with the dm and his style of leaving the table. Even if it was your dm was meta gameing or not it doesn't matter. He made a ruling right or wrong, I agree that it was wrong, but he is the one that took on the responsibility of dming.
Without witnessing the game sessions up to this point I don't know what all happened, but a few questions come to my mind. Ask yourself are you playing your character right? Your a druid that wanted to control and become a demon? Why? What's your alignment? Would your character a druid a protector of nature become a demon, or was that you as a player? Were you the only player on one side against the rest? If that's the case did the dm make a call to kill you to protect the enjoyment of the rest?
Not trying to argue but in the spirit of understanding why your dm did what he did I think it's important to see the whole picture. I will grant you it's very possible the dm screwed you, in which case I would say thanks for your time and find a new dm.
Honestly killing off( or rendering it useless) the character is an extreme move.
He could jave simply ruled that once the Demon trapped, you and the Demon form separates, you gain a few points of exhaustion and there would be a chance that the ritual fails and release a lvl 8 Fire ball ina random direction or something.
But bad DMing is a thing that sadly exists...
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
This is going to sounds harsh, and I am not trying to point fingers or insult you at all. It's a true story that a lot of dms are not very good. As a player you have the option of either dealing with the dm and his style of leaving the table. Even if it was your dm was meta gameing or not it doesn't matter. He made a ruling right or wrong, I agree that it was wrong, but he is the one that took on the responsibility of dming.
Without witnessing the game sessions up to this point I don't know what all happened, but a few questions come to my mind. Ask yourself are you playing your character right? Your a druid that wanted to control and become a demon? Why? What's your alignment? Would your character a druid a protector of nature become a demon, or was that you as a player? Were you the only player on one side against the rest? If that's the case did the dm make a call to kill you to protect the enjoyment of the rest?
Not trying to argue but in the spirit of understanding why your dm did what he did I think it's important to see the whole picture. I will grant you it's very possible the dm screwed you, in which case I would say thanks for your time and find a new dm.
I'm not insulted at all. My characters alignment was more chaotic neutral, his backstory tells of him being born into his tribe with his abilities but sought out greater power and was cast out for his overwhelming lust for power. when the DM proposed the opportunity of contolling the demon my character obviously was gonna take it. I do respect the law of "the dm is always right" but in this case it felt a little one sided. I get that I was kinda OP but i felt there was a better way to weaken me rather than make me catatonic. But i am biased in saying so which is why i made the post. Also it was myself and another player against the other two players in our group, I feel he made the call to give the team the sealing ritual after he realized how powerful I was.
From what I've read in this topic, it seems best to just talk to this DM about it one on one, in a calm fashion. A good DM listens to complaints of players and can explain the reasoning behind certain decisions, and a better DM can even admit it when they made a mistake. The power of rectification is also within their command.
If you find your DM incapable of calmly discussing such matters, it's probably best to leave the game. There are better DMs out there.
I think that the Dm is your friend you should simply approach him and ask "if you were me what would you have reasonably done to change the outcome of my character being completely useless?" If your Dm is reasonable one of two things will happen Either A.) they realize they really screwed you over giving you no options at all, and will apologize or B.) They will straight up tell how you could have reasonably reacted. Its possibly there were obvious options you didn't see or an ability you forgot you had. there is also a third possibility C.) that they tell you something you could have done but its a real long shot type thing that you wouldn't have thought of, in that case you can just tell them that thats not a reasonable thing to have expected you to think of.
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So, to start, my friends and I are probably average D&D players/DMs. Weve all made our fair share of mistakes when DMing or playing as our character. But here recently I feel like there was some unfair story actions taken by the DM that I dont quite agree with.
I will attempt to summarize as best I can here,
But at a point in our story arch, our team became divided in a sort of game of thrones type of plot, we were on opposite sides trying to take over the crown of this country.
Along the way I, a druid, came across these charms that allowed me to control a demon or more so be able to transform into one. The demon was a Goristro, a very intimidating beast to fight, at least for us. And to give the the other half a fair chance at battling me, the DM gave the other team a ritual that would seal the demon within an amulet that requires no rolls or any kind of ability check, it would just happen. This In my opinion seemed a little unfair at best. If he gave them this power then there would be no use in me using the beast, sure I could attack them with spells in my human form but the DM also thought that through and when the time came to use the demon he had cast an "anti magic bubble" from an NPC making it to where I couldnt use magic or transform into my beasts, which dont require any magic to do so btw. So I was only able to transform into the goristro, which makes no sense because if I couldnt use my wild shape then how could I turn into the demon? And at that point the demon was sealed in the amulet and my character became catatonic and unplayable from there on.
The other players would say to me when I called the DM out for metagaming that i only call that into question when things dont go my way even with extremely high dice rolls on other occasions including this one and that they need this to have a fair advantage on my new found ability.
In my biased outlook on this I find the whole situation unfair. There were other ways to weaken the goristro without completely killing my character in the process like instead of the ritual sealing the demon maybe it takes him down to half health and he rolls disadvantage. I was never actually able to use this demon due to these facts as well as in other attempts I had my soul sent to the abyss and the demon completely took me over (again despite rolling a 28 charisma saving throw) I feel I was subject to a form of DM metagaming.
Would someone be able to help me here to determine if this is true? If I am found mistaken I will shake it off and accept it but I honestly believe that I had the whole game against me after gaining the abilities of the demon. I know the phrase is "the DM's word is final" but there has to be an extent where that cant apply and it just becomes unfair, right?
Any insight is welcomed by all means
I’m not sure if this is metagaming, but it does sound like a jerk move to me.
I'm still unclear of the meaning myself when applying it to the DM but I just feel that may be the case with what I've stated
Wait a minute... what is a player doing in the Dungeon Masters Only forum?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
TexasDevin. To get insight from people who understand DMing?
I also DM occasionally in another group
BigKahuna, I appreciate your help in understand this better. I figured as much but he had been playing it off as if we still had control over who would win I just believe he stacked the deck on the other side as we didnt know they had this sealing technique. He made me and my partner leave the room to tell them about it because we would have "metagame" against it.
This is going to sounds harsh, and I am not trying to point fingers or insult you at all. It's a true story that a lot of dms are not very good. As a player you have the option of either dealing with the dm and his style of leaving the table. Even if it was your dm was meta gameing or not it doesn't matter. He made a ruling right or wrong, I agree that it was wrong, but he is the one that took on the responsibility of dming.
Without witnessing the game sessions up to this point I don't know what all happened, but a few questions come to my mind. Ask yourself are you playing your character right? Your a druid that wanted to control and become a demon? Why? What's your alignment? Would your character a druid a protector of nature become a demon, or was that you as a player? Were you the only player on one side against the rest? If that's the case did the dm make a call to kill you to protect the enjoyment of the rest?
Not trying to argue but in the spirit of understanding why your dm did what he did I think it's important to see the whole picture. I will grant you it's very possible the dm screwed you, in which case I would say thanks for your time and find a new dm.
Honestly killing off( or rendering it useless) the character is an extreme move.
He could jave simply ruled that once the Demon trapped, you and the Demon form separates, you gain a few points of exhaustion and there would be a chance that the ritual fails and release a lvl 8 Fire ball ina random direction or something.
But bad DMing is a thing that sadly exists...
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I'm not insulted at all. My characters alignment was more chaotic neutral, his backstory tells of him being born into his tribe with his abilities but sought out greater power and was cast out for his overwhelming lust for power. when the DM proposed the opportunity of contolling the demon my character obviously was gonna take it. I do respect the law of "the dm is always right" but in this case it felt a little one sided. I get that I was kinda OP but i felt there was a better way to weaken me rather than make me catatonic. But i am biased in saying so which is why i made the post. Also it was myself and another player against the other two players in our group, I feel he made the call to give the team the sealing ritual after he realized how powerful I was.
From what I've read in this topic, it seems best to just talk to this DM about it one on one, in a calm fashion. A good DM listens to complaints of players and can explain the reasoning behind certain decisions, and a better DM can even admit it when they made a mistake. The power of rectification is also within their command.
If you find your DM incapable of calmly discussing such matters, it's probably best to leave the game. There are better DMs out there.
I think that the Dm is your friend you should simply approach him and ask "if you were me what would you have reasonably done to change the outcome of my character being completely useless?" If your Dm is reasonable one of two things will happen Either A.) they realize they really screwed you over giving you no options at all, and will apologize or B.) They will straight up tell how you could have reasonably reacted. Its possibly there were obvious options you didn't see or an ability you forgot you had. there is also a third possibility C.) that they tell you something you could have done but its a real long shot type thing that you wouldn't have thought of, in that case you can just tell them that thats not a reasonable thing to have expected you to think of.