All my players are remote and some of them are ... devious and like to try to bend rules or take advantage of a situation. We originally tried the 4d6 and drop the lowest while they created their characters and lets just say, two characters would have been a blend of Confucius, Einstein, an Olympic gymnast, Conan the Barbarian and the most beautiful man/woman in the universe. Yeah, we quickly moved away from that.
The point buy ensures everyone is playing by the same rules.
A lot of places, including dndbeyond, now have dice rollers where ALL players (and the DM) get to see the result of the dice rolls. It stops this sort of "random" rolling.
If I'm playing a campaign where I will be specifically caring for this one player character for months and months I'll roll the 4d6s. If I'm making a character for a one shot I'll use the standard array, unless I don't feel like it.
I haven't rolled stats in like five years now. Almost every character I've made for 5th Ed has used the Standard Array. It's just easier and I never have to worry about either rolling "too low" and having to be told to do it again, or rolling "too high" and being suspected of lying about my stats. Also Point Buy feels a little too Munchkiny for me.
When I first started playing D&D it was roll 3d6 six times and there you go (that was BECMI D&D).
In 3.5 D&D we did the 4d6 dl (drop lowest) six times and assign as desired.
But I've found that 5E's bounded accuracy design, and the several ability score increases that will happen, causes the 4d6 dl to result in powerful PCs from the start. I believe it is this rolling method that is mostly responsible for the "hard to challenge the PCs" type of comments I've read. Using point buy actually makes the system work better in my experience. That's why I give standard array or the 27-point buy as options.
For those that really want to roll, I offer a slight variation of the 4d6 dl method - one of those 4d6 dice is an automatic 3, essentially making it a 3d6 dl + 3. This means that an ability score will not exceed 15 (prior to adjustments), just like those that pick point buy. The average roll with this is 11.46, compared to 3d6's 10.5, standard array's 12, and 4d6 dl's 12.25. The point buy of 15-15-15-8-8-8 has an average of 11.5.
I offer this option to those that want to gamble a bit to see if they can get better than the standard array, knowing they aren't going to be so far above other players that bad feelings arise. However, I would allow a mulligan if the roll total was less than 65. When running a game, my desire is to allow the players to run the types of characters they want to, but at least keep them within a reasonable range of each other, and within the ranges that the game's design assumes.
But point buy also allows 12-12-12-13-13-13(average 12.5).
All my players are remote and some of them are ... devious and like to try to bend rules or take advantage of a situation. We originally tried the 4d6 and drop the lowest while they created their characters and lets just say, two characters would have been a blend of Confucius, Einstein, an Olympic gymnast, Conan the Barbarian and the most beautiful man/woman in the universe. Yeah, we quickly moved away from that.
The point buy ensures everyone is playing by the same rules.
A lot of places, including dndbeyond, now have dice rollers where ALL players (and the DM) get to see the result of the dice rolls. It stops this sort of "random" rolling.
To SlaughterMachine:
Are you sure you want to play with these people?
To Farling:
And the rulebreakers(and rollbreakers, but not rolebreakers) will insist on not using those sites.
In the old days - 1E - we mostly rolled 4d6, dropping the lowest, repeat until you have six scores. What you get is what you get.
When I started playing 5E (I never played any editions in between), the group I was in did a draft of sorts. Taking turns, each person would roll 4d6, drop the lowest, and record the score. This was done 36 times, total, to create a 6 x 6 grid. We would then take turns claiming a row/column/diagonal of scores (going either way), but the scores remained in the order you claimed then (if the final number was 18, it goes to CHA).
Now, we have everyone individually roll 4d6, drop the lowest, x 6, twice. And place the two rolled sets next to the standard array. The player then chooses which of the three sets (no swapping numbers from set to set) they wish to use for character creation.
I mostly do Point Buy outside of Play by Posts, but in the low-power RPG I'm working on you roll a d3 six times and assign them to the scores. If you roll a 1 or a 2, roll a d2. On a 1 it is a negative modifier, on a 2 it is positive. 3's are always positive.
Yes, I know that will mean lots of low and negative modifiers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco. No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
Mine is similar to some others, but with a few tweaks. I think ultimately it comes down to your preferences as a DM and as players. For me, my player group is my wife and my three kids, all very new to D&D, and I find kids can be easily disheartened if their character comes out badly (even slightly when compared to another - sibling rivalries are real!). So my aims are:
Complete fairness
Dice rolling is fun
Strengths and weaknesses are fun
We want some semblance of balance and progression
With that the method is this:
Team does '4d6 drop lowest' FIVE times (not six)
We total up the five scores
The sixth score is 72 minus the total (if the total is already over 69, the sixth score is a 3)
All four players use the same six stats (before racial bonuses) to allocate how they want.
We reroll if any of the following are true:
The total is 80+
It is impossible to make the sixth stat because the total of the previous five is too low (if the total so far is 54 or more, we're fine, but if less, the scores are just too low)
Every stat is under 16
This results in a set of stats that usually totals 72, but can be a bit higher if they roll well (it's always fun to be rewarded for rolling well), at least one 16+, and as a result of the other conditions, there's usually a weak stat in there somewhere.
And no-one complains because everyone's using the same pool of stats.
(On a side note, we've just done this for a new campaign and the team had a 5 in their array. With two clerics, a druid and a paladin, all four of them dumped it in Intelligence. That'll be fun when they meet the mind flayers...)
The table I play at has a House Rule I like. We use standard point buy, but because that gives smaller stats than 4d6-drop-lowest tends to yield, every player also gets a level-1 ASI, with the only limitation being that you can't choose two combat-focused feats at level 1 (like if you choose variant human, one of your feats might be Observant or Telepathic or Keen Mind). This allows for more interesting character choices (with feat variety being an integral part of characters from Day 1) and improves the survivability of tier-1 levels of play.
Playing back in the day where you could have 18/00 STR, I rolled up a fighter and had 18 STR. Our house rule was to always roll the %age in front of the DM and since we only had dice with 0-9, you called whether the first roll was high (tens) or low (ones). I called high, rolled 0. DM is yelling for the second roll to be a 1 so I would have 18/01 STR. Another 0. 18/00. Party was happy, DM was annoyed, as he knew my fighter was gonna smash through everything. But the DM got happy when I reduced both INT and WIS to 7s, saying my half-orc barbarian was gonna be fairly stupid. One of my all-time favorite characters. We had a great group and had so much fun.
3d6 per stat, rolled in order, no racial ASIs (this is overall very weak)
Reroll until you get a character you like (possibly a cap, but if so it would be something like 100)
Can technically produce something amazing, but would take a lot of rolling, and I would expect most players to get tired of it first.
I feel like, at that point, you should just give players a generous stat-array and let them put it wherever they want.
The point of rolling isn't super attributes, the point is that you wind up with odd characters. For example, a set of 100 characters included:
12/15/11/10/9/18 (75p)
17/12/15/8/17/10 (79p)
10/17/14/14/12/13 (80p)
13/14/11/18/16/12 (84p)
Of those, only #3 looks all that much like a character someone would deliberately design, and frankly, it's not that much better than the 10/17/14/14/12/8 you'd likely see in point build or standard array.
I use the Dungeon Dudes standard array. But will let them move a few of the numbers around. 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 is their array, but if a person wants to use 17, 15, 13, 10, 10, 10, I am okay with that.
I've only used Standard Array for many years now. I find it more realistic, and it promotes balanced characters who can take care of themselves no matter what I do to them. It does remove the Vegas thrill/agony of rolling stats, but there's plenty of both in the game itself.
A lot of places, including dndbeyond, now have dice rollers where ALL players (and the DM) get to see the result of the dice rolls. It stops this sort of "random" rolling.
If I'm playing a campaign where I will be specifically caring for this one player character for months and months I'll roll the 4d6s. If I'm making a character for a one shot I'll use the standard array, unless I don't feel like it.
I haven't rolled stats in like five years now. Almost every character I've made for 5th Ed has used the Standard Array. It's just easier and I never have to worry about either rolling "too low" and having to be told to do it again, or rolling "too high" and being suspected of lying about my stats. Also Point Buy feels a little too Munchkiny for me.
But point buy also allows 12-12-12-13-13-13(average 12.5).
To SlaughterMachine:
Are you sure you want to play with these people?
To Farling:
And the rulebreakers(and rollbreakers, but not rolebreakers) will insist on not using those sites.
Also, should I know who Conan the Barbarian is?
In the old days - 1E - we mostly rolled 4d6, dropping the lowest, repeat until you have six scores. What you get is what you get.
When I started playing 5E (I never played any editions in between), the group I was in did a draft of sorts. Taking turns, each person would roll 4d6, drop the lowest, and record the score. This was done 36 times, total, to create a 6 x 6 grid. We would then take turns claiming a row/column/diagonal of scores (going either way), but the scores remained in the order you claimed then (if the final number was 18, it goes to CHA).
Now, we have everyone individually roll 4d6, drop the lowest, x 6, twice. And place the two rolled sets next to the standard array. The player then chooses which of the three sets (no swapping numbers from set to set) they wish to use for character creation.
I mostly do Point Buy outside of Play by Posts, but in the low-power RPG I'm working on you roll a d3 six times and assign them to the scores. If you roll a 1 or a 2, roll a d2. On a 1 it is a negative modifier, on a 2 it is positive. 3's are always positive.
Yes, I know that will mean lots of low and negative modifiers.
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco.
No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
Mine is similar to some others, but with a few tweaks. I think ultimately it comes down to your preferences as a DM and as players. For me, my player group is my wife and my three kids, all very new to D&D, and I find kids can be easily disheartened if their character comes out badly (even slightly when compared to another - sibling rivalries are real!). So my aims are:
With that the method is this:
We reroll if any of the following are true:
This results in a set of stats that usually totals 72, but can be a bit higher if they roll well (it's always fun to be rewarded for rolling well), at least one 16+, and as a result of the other conditions, there's usually a weak stat in there somewhere.
And no-one complains because everyone's using the same pool of stats.
(On a side note, we've just done this for a new campaign and the team had a 5 in their array. With two clerics, a druid and a paladin, all four of them dumped it in Intelligence. That'll be fun when they meet the mind flayers...)
The table I play at has a House Rule I like. We use standard point buy, but because that gives smaller stats than 4d6-drop-lowest tends to yield, every player also gets a level-1 ASI, with the only limitation being that you can't choose two combat-focused feats at level 1 (like if you choose variant human, one of your feats might be Observant or Telepathic or Keen Mind). This allows for more interesting character choices (with feat variety being an integral part of characters from Day 1) and improves the survivability of tier-1 levels of play.
We do 2D4 +6 (we then allow +1 bonus point to 1 stat for the person who rolled the lowest over all at the table)
it gets rid of really low rolls as well as making the high stat max 14 (rarely a 15) before racial stats.
Prefer DMing large party’s. I like playing Rogues and Rangers
Oh, I like the idea of a bonus for the guy that rolled the lowest.
But I still prefer my method. (multiple dice patterns, assigned to the stats in order)
Playing back in the day where you could have 18/00 STR, I rolled up a fighter and had 18 STR. Our house rule was to always roll the %age in front of the DM and since we only had dice with 0-9, you called whether the first roll was high (tens) or low (ones). I called high, rolled 0. DM is yelling for the second roll to be a 1 so I would have 18/01 STR. Another 0. 18/00. Party was happy, DM was annoyed, as he knew my fighter was gonna smash through everything. But the DM got happy when I reduced both INT and WIS to 7s, saying my half-orc barbarian was gonna be fairly stupid. One of my all-time favorite characters. We had a great group and had so much fun.
I've been considering a weird option:
Can technically produce something amazing, but would take a lot of rolling, and I would expect most players to get tired of it first.
Point-buy and point-buy only. Fair and balanced. No random rolls for any permanent stats. I only allow average HP per level too.
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
I feel like, at that point, you should just give players a generous stat-array and let them put it wherever they want.
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The point of rolling isn't super attributes, the point is that you wind up with odd characters. For example, a set of 100 characters included:
Of those, only #3 looks all that much like a character someone would deliberately design, and frankly, it's not that much better than the 10/17/14/14/12/8 you'd likely see in point build or standard array.
I use the Dungeon Dudes standard array. But will let them move a few of the numbers around. 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 is their array, but if a person wants to use 17, 15, 13, 10, 10, 10, I am okay with that.
6 13's. You can rearrange the points how you want. if you subtract from one, you can add them to another.
example
13 13 13 13 13 13
You could have 8 18 10 16 13 13. Pretty fair stats, some room to mini max, and that's only one example.
Updog
I've only used Standard Array for many years now. I find it more realistic, and it promotes balanced characters who can take care of themselves no matter what I do to them. It does remove the Vegas thrill/agony of rolling stats, but there's plenty of both in the game itself.
I like the 13 13 13 13 13 13. I might use that.