I grew up with the system of rolling 4d6, dropping the lowest number and repeating 6 times then placing them however you want.
I've had a couple DMs with house rules to do one of the following:
- After getting 6 numbers, re-roll the 2nd lowest - After getting 6 numbers, replace the lowest with a 16 - Re-roll the whole lot if you don't get at least one number 16 or higher
A few have just done the roll 4d6, remove the lowest die, repeat 6 times and that's it. I once created a character with no stat above a 13 and with 3 numbers under 10. Despite being pretty un-impressive in combat or dice rolls, it was one of the funnest characters I ever played.
Now that I've come back to D&D with 5E and a new group of players, we've always done the point-buy system. I'm going to be DMing my first real campaign with them and I kind of want to use the rolling stats I grew up with.
How does your group determine their character stats? Does everyone in your group agree with the method you use? Do you have a session zero for character creation and such?
I like the standard array. If you wanted to roll up characters, I would do that as a group using the 4d6 method. The reason for doing it as a group is partially to prevent cheating, we all get tempted, and also so that everyone knows you didn't cheat. Imagine rolling super high, great rolls and no one believes you. If you do it in front of the group, they all saw it. Besides, rolling as a group can make for a fun discussion. Like you said, if you roll really low a bunch of times, you might get some good ideas on how to make that character from the group.
But the standard array is a very easy way to get started.
I do point-buy for most of my campaigns. It gives players the freedom and security to get what they want out of their character. Somehow it also makes things easier on me when it comes to creating challenging encounters. After all....everyone is around the same numbers.
However if I want to run a high powered fantasy game then we just roll. We often end up with 1 stat being around 6 and the other attributes at 14+ that way. If you're unlucky then their chars can be all across the board making it really difficult to make encounters. Since one char can breeze through while another dies instantly. So a houserule to balance this out would be needed. Of course when we roll, we do it in front of the DM and not at home.
When one of the players runs a one-shot we also usually roll. And also roll in order of the attributes so you never know what kind of stats/character you end up creating. I ended up with an Orc Warlock in an "evul" campaign. We were a warband part of a larger army. Had to take over a village protected by a wizard who had a tactical positional advantage. My intelligence was 5 with a wisdom of 16 and charisma of 18. I had to play a dumbass with really high instinct. Playing an idiot is not easy, but can lead to funny moments.
Session 0 is nice and all, but we haven't really done that in most cases. For my latest campaign we talk before and after a session. Then we immediately deal with anything that comes up and come to agreements. With the one-shots from players who will DM...well we do talk about it briefly. About the sort of adventure, sort of characters and such. The full campaign run by another player we did have a session 0. However we didn't talk about expectations etc. It was more about playing a short stand alone adventure to take our chars for a test drive basically. Was fun, but didn't see the point of it in the long run.
I have players roll to generate stats, but I’m fairly loose with the whole thing. When a new player is rolling up is usually a good time to talk about what the stats mean and how to use them. The randomness of the dice makes character creation more fun than point buy or standard array for me. I don’t stand over people and watch them roll if they don’t need help or have questions. If people want to “cheat” when rolling? I literally couldn’t care less, provided they don’t go God-mode and max everything out. I want people to play characters that they find compelling and can become immersed in, even if they have to fudge a stat.
I've always done 4d6 drop the lowest and then if you're not happy with your stats reroll the whole thing. You can continue to do it as long as you like but you will eventually have to settle for a couple of lower stats. When I have to create characters for other people's campaigns I tend to do the point buy system. I enjoy have a couple scores being 15 and then everything else being basically an 8. It brings a joy to have to think of ways to get out of dire situations because they are not as skilled in certain areas as even a normal NPC would be. I think that just comes with time and experience with tabletops though. I find that when players first join a tabletop RPGs they want to be OMG OP and have minor challenges here and there because of all different reasons (don't wanna die, deal as much damage as possible, not fail certain checks, etc.). It seems like most people calm down with trying to get the high rolls once they have a bit of time under their belts (depending on the style of gamer they are).
Really it just comes down to choice. If you do the 4d6 method, don't be surprised if a couple people flub a couple scores. As long as everyone is having fun it really doesn't matter. So if you really wanted to end them, you're the DM have fun :) lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Self Righteous Paladin: "That much power corrupts a man."
Random Bard: "Power is just a tool. How you use it doesn't change that fact. It just shows the purest form of your desires."
I tend to stick with Standard Array. Gives a little bit more realistic character than 15/15/15/8/8/8. Rolling stats always sounds fun, but its never fun to be the person that rolled 14/10/10/11/8/10 watching the guy that rolled 18/18/16/10/15/15 be THAT much better than you. Standard Array still gives strong, customized characters, that all start out on a level playing field.
I prefer the roll 4d6 drop the lowest, as a player. Often I'll roll down the list rather than picking where each go. I really don't like using point buy or other systems that try to take away the random chance or provide too much opportunity to buff up the stats. Makes it so clinical and flat, while rolling and building from there just feels right. I don't have any problem with people doing it, I just don't like using them myself.
I legitimately can't understand why people are so afraid of negative modifiers or are so set on making sure their class/racial abilities are buffed up. You can have so much fun without all of that, and in fact one of the most entertaining characters I have ever played was a Tabaxi Rogue whose stats at level 1 were 6/13/9/7/8/8, which was after racial bonuses were applied. I played him through a series of Adventurer League adventures during Tomb of Annihilation. It certainly wasn't just me that was having fun either, a lot of times other players would skip their turns because they wanted to see how my tabaxi was going to handle it. He survived long enough to eventually boost his abilities, but I gave him the Toughness feat instead.
It just seems to me like people are always worrying about what their characters can do instead of having fun with what their characters can do. It's D&D, the only losing is when there's a lack of fun.
But that's my opinion as a player. As a DM, whatever the group prefers I'm okay with. I can always adjust encounters to handle powerful or weaker PCs. But all of my groups are of the same general sentiment.
This is always huge point of contention for my group. Some people are die hard 4d6 and some of us love point buy. I also find that newer players are good with the standard array. Personally I love negative mods to add an extra edge to my RP but I understand it's sometimes no fun to be that warrior with 15 ac and only +2 to hit.
When I DM I just let them pick their method and everyone has the opportunity to change it up before the first session. We are still prepping for WaterDeep and I originally did point buy, but then my DM is really big on 4d6. So I rolled it and got some pretty good rolls that will let me live just a touch better at level 1-4 and frees me up for a feat later. So the benefit of experimenting is good for the players as well!
I've not really seen it become a balancing issue for encounters though? Maybe I just don't have enough experience there to be sure.
In case anyone wants the comparison, I've done some spreadsheet calculations for average point values:
Standard Array = 15,14,13,12,10,8 Average = 12
Point Buy (27 points, and increase cost beyond 13) Average = 12.5 maximum, less if you make stats over 13.
4d6 drop the lowest: Average = 12.2446
4d6 drop the lowest, but require two scores of 15 or more: Average = 13.4575
4d6 drop the lowest, but do 7 sets and drop the worst: Average = 12.8649
3d6 but reroll 1s (effectively 3d5 + 3): Average = 12
4d6 and drop lowest but reroll 1s: Average = 13.4336
Summary: I prefer rolling because of the increased randomness of the character. That being said, if the method used gives you an average stat of 13 point something, I would advocate for the player assigning scores in the order that they are rolled. Reason being, there should be a corresponding unluckiness to go with such luck. I rather like the systems where you reroll ones. They aren't as random as other rolling methods, but are still much wilder than array or point buy.
I typically do point buy, but if players want it I'll let them do 4d6 drop the lowest and anyone can use any of the arrays of 6 numbers generated. In the end, it's more about balance between the players than their balance vs the world.
For short-term games, I let my players roll. For longer games (like, longer than a year) I recommend the standard array but allow point buy if players want more flexibility.
I might steal Lunali's method the next time I start a game, though.
My method is 4d6 drop the lowest, 7 times drop the lowest. For my current campaign, I added another step; that all these numbers are put in a pool for the players to discuss amongst themselves and choose who takes which numbers. I wanted to see how they collaborated with one another during, arguably, the most important aspect of character creation. It seemed to go over pretty well, but I can imagine that this might be less-than ideal for some groups.
Our other DM has a modified point buy system, that definitely lends to super powerful characters:
My group usually goes by 4d6 drop the lowest, and if the average of your scores is below 13 you can reroll the lowest score for a higher value. If the average is still below 13, reroll the next lowest score for a higher value and so on and so forth.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
4d6 drop lowest. For new players, re-roll the whole set if you don't have two scores of 15 or higher. For more experienced players, re-roll if your total isn't at least 70. For power gamers, roll the stats in order, no rearranging. For masochists, roll a d20 six times. :)
The only tiny mod I do just for funzies to the roll 4d6 drop the lowest, is if they roll a Yahtzee (ish) I give them one additional point, gives the slim potential of having a 19 and a minor boost otherwise.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I grew up with the system of rolling 4d6, dropping the lowest number and repeating 6 times then placing them however you want.
I've had a couple DMs with house rules to do one of the following:
- After getting 6 numbers, re-roll the 2nd lowest
- After getting 6 numbers, replace the lowest with a 16
- Re-roll the whole lot if you don't get at least one number 16 or higher
A few have just done the roll 4d6, remove the lowest die, repeat 6 times and that's it. I once created a character with no stat above a 13 and with 3 numbers under 10. Despite being pretty un-impressive in combat or dice rolls, it was one of the funnest characters I ever played.
Now that I've come back to D&D with 5E and a new group of players, we've always done the point-buy system. I'm going to be DMing my first real campaign with them and I kind of want to use the rolling stats I grew up with.
How does your group determine their character stats?
Does everyone in your group agree with the method you use?
Do you have a session zero for character creation and such?
I like the standard array. If you wanted to roll up characters, I would do that as a group using the 4d6 method. The reason for doing it as a group is partially to prevent cheating, we all get tempted, and also so that everyone knows you didn't cheat. Imagine rolling super high, great rolls and no one believes you. If you do it in front of the group, they all saw it. Besides, rolling as a group can make for a fun discussion. Like you said, if you roll really low a bunch of times, you might get some good ideas on how to make that character from the group.
But the standard array is a very easy way to get started.
I do point-buy for most of my campaigns. It gives players the freedom and security to get what they want out of their character. Somehow it also makes things easier on me when it comes to creating challenging encounters. After all....everyone is around the same numbers.
However if I want to run a high powered fantasy game then we just roll. We often end up with 1 stat being around 6 and the other attributes at 14+ that way. If you're unlucky then their chars can be all across the board making it really difficult to make encounters. Since one char can breeze through while another dies instantly. So a houserule to balance this out would be needed. Of course when we roll, we do it in front of the DM and not at home.
When one of the players runs a one-shot we also usually roll. And also roll in order of the attributes so you never know what kind of stats/character you end up creating. I ended up with an Orc Warlock in an "evul" campaign. We were a warband part of a larger army. Had to take over a village protected by a wizard who had a tactical positional advantage. My intelligence was 5 with a wisdom of 16 and charisma of 18. I had to play a dumbass with really high instinct. Playing an idiot is not easy, but can lead to funny moments.
Session 0 is nice and all, but we haven't really done that in most cases. For my latest campaign we talk before and after a session. Then we immediately deal with anything that comes up and come to agreements. With the one-shots from players who will DM...well we do talk about it briefly. About the sort of adventure, sort of characters and such. The full campaign run by another player we did have a session 0. However we didn't talk about expectations etc. It was more about playing a short stand alone adventure to take our chars for a test drive basically. Was fun, but didn't see the point of it in the long run.
Rolling then re-rolling just reduces the chance for low stats. At that point you might as well use point buy or standard array.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I have players roll to generate stats, but I’m fairly loose with the whole thing. When a new player is rolling up is usually a good time to talk about what the stats mean and how to use them. The randomness of the dice makes character creation more fun than point buy or standard array for me. I don’t stand over people and watch them roll if they don’t need help or have questions. If people want to “cheat” when rolling? I literally couldn’t care less, provided they don’t go God-mode and max everything out. I want people to play characters that they find compelling and can become immersed in, even if they have to fudge a stat.
I let my players choose between:
all 8s
point buy
and standard array
In character creation I usually use point buy because I like building martial classes.
Loading...
I've always done 4d6 drop the lowest and then if you're not happy with your stats reroll the whole thing. You can continue to do it as long as you like but you will eventually have to settle for a couple of lower stats. When I have to create characters for other people's campaigns I tend to do the point buy system. I enjoy have a couple scores being 15 and then everything else being basically an 8. It brings a joy to have to think of ways to get out of dire situations because they are not as skilled in certain areas as even a normal NPC would be. I think that just comes with time and experience with tabletops though. I find that when players first join a tabletop RPGs they want to be OMG OP and have minor challenges here and there because of all different reasons (don't wanna die, deal as much damage as possible, not fail certain checks, etc.). It seems like most people calm down with trying to get the high rolls once they have a bit of time under their belts (depending on the style of gamer they are).
Really it just comes down to choice. If you do the 4d6 method, don't be surprised if a couple people flub a couple scores. As long as everyone is having fun it really doesn't matter. So if you really wanted to end them, you're the DM have fun :) lol
Self Righteous Paladin: "That much power corrupts a man."
Random Bard: "Power is just a tool. How you use it doesn't change that fact. It just shows the purest form of your desires."
I like to force players into exciting journeys. Choose Race, Class, and then roll Method III — http://www.mithrilandmages.com/utilities/1ECharacterAttributes.php
You end up with a powerful and unique character. Once you allow players to assign stats, you’ve basically handed over the game to them.
I think that needs explaining.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I thought that was part of the point.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I tend to stick with Standard Array. Gives a little bit more realistic character than 15/15/15/8/8/8. Rolling stats always sounds fun, but its never fun to be the person that rolled 14/10/10/11/8/10 watching the guy that rolled 18/18/16/10/15/15 be THAT much better than you. Standard Array still gives strong, customized characters, that all start out on a level playing field.
I prefer the roll 4d6 drop the lowest, as a player. Often I'll roll down the list rather than picking where each go. I really don't like using point buy or other systems that try to take away the random chance or provide too much opportunity to buff up the stats. Makes it so clinical and flat, while rolling and building from there just feels right. I don't have any problem with people doing it, I just don't like using them myself.
I legitimately can't understand why people are so afraid of negative modifiers or are so set on making sure their class/racial abilities are buffed up. You can have so much fun without all of that, and in fact one of the most entertaining characters I have ever played was a Tabaxi Rogue whose stats at level 1 were 6/13/9/7/8/8, which was after racial bonuses were applied. I played him through a series of Adventurer League adventures during Tomb of Annihilation. It certainly wasn't just me that was having fun either, a lot of times other players would skip their turns because they wanted to see how my tabaxi was going to handle it. He survived long enough to eventually boost his abilities, but I gave him the Toughness feat instead.
It just seems to me like people are always worrying about what their characters can do instead of having fun with what their characters can do. It's D&D, the only losing is when there's a lack of fun.
But that's my opinion as a player. As a DM, whatever the group prefers I'm okay with. I can always adjust encounters to handle powerful or weaker PCs. But all of my groups are of the same general sentiment.
This is always huge point of contention for my group. Some people are die hard 4d6 and some of us love point buy. I also find that newer players are good with the standard array. Personally I love negative mods to add an extra edge to my RP but I understand it's sometimes no fun to be that warrior with 15 ac and only +2 to hit.
When I DM I just let them pick their method and everyone has the opportunity to change it up before the first session. We are still prepping for WaterDeep and I originally did point buy, but then my DM is really big on 4d6. So I rolled it and got some pretty good rolls that will let me live just a touch better at level 1-4 and frees me up for a feat later. So the benefit of experimenting is good for the players as well!
I've not really seen it become a balancing issue for encounters though? Maybe I just don't have enough experience there to be sure.
Karmafleet is recruiting.
In case anyone wants the comparison, I've done some spreadsheet calculations for average point values:
Standard Array = 15,14,13,12,10,8
Average = 12
Point Buy (27 points, and increase cost beyond 13)
Average = 12.5 maximum, less if you make stats over 13.
4d6 drop the lowest:
Average = 12.2446
4d6 drop the lowest, but require two scores of 15 or more:
Average = 13.4575
4d6 drop the lowest, but do 7 sets and drop the worst:
Average = 12.8649
3d6 but reroll 1s (effectively 3d5 + 3):
Average = 12
4d6 and drop lowest but reroll 1s:
Average = 13.4336
Summary:
I prefer rolling because of the increased randomness of the character. That being said, if the method used gives you an average stat of 13 point something, I would advocate for the player assigning scores in the order that they are rolled. Reason being, there should be a corresponding unluckiness to go with such luck. I rather like the systems where you reroll ones. They aren't as random as other rolling methods, but are still much wilder than array or point buy.
I typically do point buy, but if players want it I'll let them do 4d6 drop the lowest and anyone can use any of the arrays of 6 numbers generated. In the end, it's more about balance between the players than their balance vs the world.
For short-term games, I let my players roll. For longer games (like, longer than a year) I recommend the standard array but allow point buy if players want more flexibility.
I might steal Lunali's method the next time I start a game, though.
My group has 2 primary methods.
My method is 4d6 drop the lowest, 7 times drop the lowest.
For my current campaign, I added another step; that all these numbers are put in a pool for the players to discuss amongst themselves and choose who takes which numbers. I wanted to see how they collaborated with one another during, arguably, the most important aspect of character creation. It seemed to go over pretty well, but I can imagine that this might be less-than ideal for some groups.
Our other DM has a modified point buy system, that definitely lends to super powerful characters:
You get 24 points to spend.
3 = +9
4 = +7
5 = +5
6 = +4
7 = +3
8 = +2
9 = +1
10 = 0
11 = -1
12 = -2
13 = -3
14 = -4
15 = -5
16 = -7
17 = -9
If I were to pick one of the standards, though, I would definitely go with point buy.
My group usually goes by 4d6 drop the lowest, and if the average of your scores is below 13 you can reroll the lowest score for a higher value. If the average is still below 13, reroll the next lowest score for a higher value and so on and so forth.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
4d6 drop lowest. For new players, re-roll the whole set if you don't have two scores of 15 or higher. For more experienced players, re-roll if your total isn't at least 70. For power gamers, roll the stats in order, no rearranging. For masochists, roll a d20 six times. :)
The only tiny mod I do just for funzies to the roll 4d6 drop the lowest, is if they roll a Yahtzee (ish) I give them one additional point, gives the slim potential of having a 19 and a minor boost otherwise.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."