So I am running a group of 3 through LMoP and the last session ended with the party stuck in the steep passage (area 4) fighting wolves at the top of the passage and goblins below.
The party went straight to the waterfall (sneaking past the wolves in the kennel and spotting and killing the goblin on the bridge) and failed to surprise Klarg in his cave. They did kill Ripper right off and so Klarg fled down the chute to the kennel while the PC's fought the goblins in area 7 and 8. Klarg freed the wolves and fled to gather up Yeemik and his goblins in the goblin den. The PC's followed and ended up stuck in the steep passage as I said initially.
So I know (and have read) that LMoP can be pretty vicious for small and or inexperience parties and to account for this I have been playing the goblins as cowardly as possible. Once the players engage in combat the goblins will break and run after the first goblin goes down or occasionally they throw a javelin and then run. With that in mind I am considering what the goblins will do next and this brings me to ask for some advice.
At this point I think I will have Klarg (the bugbear leader) flee the cave with maybe a goblin or two and become a reoccurring villain for the rest of the adventure. Has anyone done this in their adventure? What did Klarg do? I'm thinking he runs to Cragmaw castle and informs King Grol who in turn sends him to inform the Redbrands about the PC's. This will give the Redbrands even more reason to mess with the party when they get to Phandalin and basically make it so the PC's will have to face them down.
Anyone have other ideas? Or interesting stories to relate regarding LMoP?
Hmm, Bugbears are listed in the description as creatures who 'flee when outmatched' and the description in LMoP says that Klarg flees if his wolf is killed. Sure he is crazy but I don't get the impression that he is suicidal.
Part of why I want him to flee is to avoid killing the party. Too late at this point to add NPC's in the middle of a fight. I discussed with the players on running more then one character and they declined. As a DM I am not going to grind the PCs up because they are a man short. Instead I am adjusting the encounters to account for that and there are two ways to do that... one way would be to reduce the amount of bad guys and a second way would be to have the monsters use bad strategies or run away (which I find very realistic - its always been odd to me that every baddie fights to the death).
The Red Brands are being paid by the Black Spider to run strangers and adventurers off. At the time the PC's get to PART 2 the bad guys don't know anything about them (unless someone tells them about the PCs). The module doesn't say much about what happens to Klarg if he flees. Since he is named I'd like Klarg to pop up in Phandalin, Cragmaw Castle and finally in Wave Echo Cave if he lives that long. It seems like it will be a nice way to connect the PC's to the adventure. I may even promote him to a Bugbear Chief if he makes it to the end fight.
To me, it sounds like you've managed that first Cragmaw hideout encounter perfectly. Nice work!
When I ran LMoP, I also followed the advice written in the adventure and had Klarg flee after his pet wolf was slain. Klarg went straight to King Grol at Cragmaw Castle to report what had happened, and didn't get any farther than that. For failing to defend the hideout, Grol demoted Klarg to owlbear keeper. So his new job was shoveling owlbear dung out of its tower. I guess this didn't make him a reoccurring villain, but he was eager to get his revenge when the party managed to find the castle.
Having read your idea, I think what you're planning makes for a more cohesive story that connects from beginning to end.
To me, it sounds like you've managed that first Cragmaw hideout encounter perfectly. Nice work!
When I ran LMoP, I also followed the advice written in the adventure and had Klarg flee after his pet wolf was slain. Klarg went straight to King Grol at Cragmaw Castle to report what had happened, and didn't get any farther than that. For failing to defend the hideout, Grol demoted Klarg to owlbear keeper. So his new job was shoveling owlbear dung out of its tower. I guess this didn't make him a reoccurring villain, but he was eager to get his revenge when the party managed to find the castle.
Having read your idea, I think what you're planning makes for a more cohesive story that connects from beginning to end.
I love it! Shoveling owlbear dung is hilarious. :) Maybe that would be Yeemik's fate if he gets out alive. Hmm
Just as a side note. My LMoP game ended with me having to TPK the whole party. When they encountered the Black Spider they not only know he was evil since they found the Rockseeker brother tortured, they had a letter from him saying he wants the players dead, they know his excuse for why one of the rockseekers are dead at the entrance is a lie since they insighted him, but they still allowed themselves to get persuade to not only clear the cave for him but also pointed out how he can improve their gear and make both armor and weapons for the bugbears magical. When they cleared all enemies in the cave he betrayed them and killed all of them. Sucks for the players but they should really have taken the hints at that point.
They decided to help out The Black Spider? Whoah, maybe they did get what they deserved.
In my youth I was a more killer DM but I've since mellowed out. And my players are fairly new to 5th edition so I want this adventure to start things off rather then end things early and thus the kid gloves are on...at least until 5th level or so. ;)
My LMOP game is off to an interesting start. In the Cragmaw cave, took a bit of an Adventure Zone route and convinced Klarg to trade Sildar for information on Yeemik's betrayal. They also promised to install him as, in his words, "King Grol Klarg." When they got to Phandalin, they found out about the missing shipment quest at the Lionshield Coster, and felt that they liked Klarg too much to directly screw him over. So they just gave the location of the Cragmaw Cave and I gave them a much smaller reward for the tipoff.
Here's where it gets ridiculous. I knew I wanted to bring back Klarg, so I had him TPK an unseen party and learn from them about the "Lion Shell Coaster" and turned in the goods himself. Then he heard around town that the players, his NEW BUDDIES, were off at the Redbrand hideout. She he goes up through the tunnel to say hi.
Oh, I should mention one thing. I though "What's the stupidest way I could possibly bring back Klarg?" and the day before this latest session it hit me. I will make him a bard. So I wrote up the backstory of him clubbing the NPC raiding party, looting one of the bard's gear, and turning in his own quest. He then comes prancing up the tunnel in full bard attire like a tone-deaf, chaotic evil Tom Bombadil, singing the following song:
Hey dol! Merry dol! Ring a dong dillo!
Smash a skull! Against a wall! Use the brain as a pillow!
Klarg Blarg, angry Klarg, Klarg Smashadillo!
They round up the Redbrands, Phandalin calls for an election which the human noble wins in a landslide, and his first act as townmaster is to appoint Klarg as the jolly singing captain of the town patrol. In lieu of jailtime, the captured Redbrands are forced to patrol under his supervision and listen to him sing his songs all day. Which, we all agreed, is the worst punishment we could have possibly come up with.
Great story Kromlock. I've heard of other groups 'adopting' Klarg as an ally in some way. It didn't occur to me at the time but that might've been a fun way to play it.
Unfortunately my PC's caught up with Klarg in Phandalin and I was not successful in getting him away a second time. He came to an untimely end and I learned an important lesson on not involving reoccurring bad guys in combat. Ever. They should just poke their head out from behind a group of minions and then exit.
My group is actually still running through LMoP. We only meet once a month for 4 hours so we will likely be in the adventure for a while yet. They did end up locking the Harbin Wester, the Townmaster, in his own jail however. The Townmaster wanted to talk it out with the Redbrands and the PC's were not having it.
I had him take a squad of hobgoblins and hunt down the party once the Black Spider issued orders that they were to be eliminated. Setting up an ambush in the ruins of Conyberry when they were on their way back from Agatha's made for a fun fight.
it's not a video game, klarg could run off and start a roadside flower shop. I just mean he does not need to be brought to 0 hp to have fun.
I do think you need to play the alignment honestly, as a chaotic evil lazy bully he is unlikely to tell the authorities, grol or the rebrands. he may run, absolutely, but I think he would rally his goblins to flush the characters out so he can crush them. he just needs a plan, and to the heroes benefit... it need not be a perfect plan.
it's not a video game, klarg could run off and start a roadside flower shop. I just mean he does not need to be brought to 0 hp to have fun.
I do think you need to play the alignment honestly, as a chaotic evil lazy bully he is unlikely to tell the authorities, grol or the rebrands. he may run, absolutely, but I think he would rally his goblins to flush the characters out so he can crush them. he just needs a plan, and to the heroes benefit... it need not be a perfect plan.
There are lots of ways to play a chaotic evil alignment. The description in the 5E book only says: 'Chaotic evil (CE) creatures act with arbitrary violence, spurred by their greed, hatred, or bloodlust. Demons, red dragons, and orcs are chaotic evil.' Any additional description or attribute of Chaotic evil is coming from past experience or personal expectations.
My King Klarg fled a loosing battle at the Cragmaw caves and ran to the only other fellow goblins he knew, Cragmaw Castle. He was, in turn, ordered by King Grol to warn the Redbrands in Phandalin. My players were sneaky enough to catch him and a few bugbear allies by surprise and killed Klarg before he could run away a second time.
But as it can be seen above, there are lots of options with how to deal with King Klarg, and by extension any NPC. Having a NPC running around in the background like this is a great way to put some drama in the game. My Player's had immense satisfaction in finishing off Klarg. If he had survived (or died in a way which I could bring him back) that satisfaction would no doubt have been compounded.
So I am running a group of 3 through LMoP and the last session ended with the party stuck in the steep passage (area 4) fighting wolves at the top of the passage and goblins below.
The party went straight to the waterfall (sneaking past the wolves in the kennel and spotting and killing the goblin on the bridge) and failed to surprise Klarg in his cave. They did kill Ripper right off and so Klarg fled down the chute to the kennel while the PC's fought the goblins in area 7 and 8. Klarg freed the wolves and fled to gather up Yeemik and his goblins in the goblin den. The PC's followed and ended up stuck in the steep passage as I said initially.
So I know (and have read) that LMoP can be pretty vicious for small and or inexperience parties and to account for this I have been playing the goblins as cowardly as possible. Once the players engage in combat the goblins will break and run after the first goblin goes down or occasionally they throw a javelin and then run. With that in mind I am considering what the goblins will do next and this brings me to ask for some advice.
At this point I think I will have Klarg (the bugbear leader) flee the cave with maybe a goblin or two and become a reoccurring villain for the rest of the adventure. Has anyone done this in their adventure? What did Klarg do? I'm thinking he runs to Cragmaw castle and informs King Grol who in turn sends him to inform the Redbrands about the PC's. This will give the Redbrands even more reason to mess with the party when they get to Phandalin and basically make it so the PC's will have to face them down.
Anyone have other ideas? Or interesting stories to relate regarding LMoP?
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
Hmm, Bugbears are listed in the description as creatures who 'flee when outmatched' and the description in LMoP says that Klarg flees if his wolf is killed. Sure he is crazy but I don't get the impression that he is suicidal.
Part of why I want him to flee is to avoid killing the party. Too late at this point to add NPC's in the middle of a fight. I discussed with the players on running more then one character and they declined. As a DM I am not going to grind the PCs up because they are a man short. Instead I am adjusting the encounters to account for that and there are two ways to do that... one way would be to reduce the amount of bad guys and a second way would be to have the monsters use bad strategies or run away (which I find very realistic - its always been odd to me that every baddie fights to the death).
The Red Brands are being paid by the Black Spider to run strangers and adventurers off. At the time the PC's get to PART 2 the bad guys don't know anything about them (unless someone tells them about the PCs). The module doesn't say much about what happens to Klarg if he flees. Since he is named I'd like Klarg to pop up in Phandalin, Cragmaw Castle and finally in Wave Echo Cave if he lives that long. It seems like it will be a nice way to connect the PC's to the adventure. I may even promote him to a Bugbear Chief if he makes it to the end fight.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
To me, it sounds like you've managed that first Cragmaw hideout encounter perfectly. Nice work!
When I ran LMoP, I also followed the advice written in the adventure and had Klarg flee after his pet wolf was slain. Klarg went straight to King Grol at Cragmaw Castle to report what had happened, and didn't get any farther than that. For failing to defend the hideout, Grol demoted Klarg to owlbear keeper. So his new job was shoveling owlbear dung out of its tower. I guess this didn't make him a reoccurring villain, but he was eager to get his revenge when the party managed to find the castle.
Having read your idea, I think what you're planning makes for a more cohesive story that connects from beginning to end.
I love it! Shoveling owlbear dung is hilarious. :) Maybe that would be Yeemik's fate if he gets out alive. Hmm
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
They decided to help out The Black Spider? Whoah, maybe they did get what they deserved.
In my youth I was a more killer DM but I've since mellowed out. And my players are fairly new to 5th edition so I want this adventure to start things off rather then end things early and thus the kid gloves are on...at least until 5th level or so. ;)
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
My LMOP game is off to an interesting start. In the Cragmaw cave, took a bit of an Adventure Zone route and convinced Klarg to trade Sildar for information on Yeemik's betrayal. They also promised to install him as, in his words, "King Grol Klarg." When they got to Phandalin, they found out about the missing shipment quest at the Lionshield Coster, and felt that they liked Klarg too much to directly screw him over. So they just gave the location of the Cragmaw Cave and I gave them a much smaller reward for the tipoff.
Here's where it gets ridiculous. I knew I wanted to bring back Klarg, so I had him TPK an unseen party and learn from them about the "Lion Shell Coaster" and turned in the goods himself. Then he heard around town that the players, his NEW BUDDIES, were off at the Redbrand hideout. She he goes up through the tunnel to say hi.
Oh, I should mention one thing. I though "What's the stupidest way I could possibly bring back Klarg?" and the day before this latest session it hit me. I will make him a bard. So I wrote up the backstory of him clubbing the NPC raiding party, looting one of the bard's gear, and turning in his own quest. He then comes prancing up the tunnel in full bard attire like a tone-deaf, chaotic evil Tom Bombadil, singing the following song:
Hey dol! Merry dol! Ring a dong dillo!
Smash a skull! Against a wall! Use the brain as a pillow!
Klarg Blarg, angry Klarg, Klarg Smashadillo!
They round up the Redbrands, Phandalin calls for an election which the human noble wins in a landslide, and his first act as townmaster is to appoint Klarg as the jolly singing captain of the town patrol. In lieu of jailtime, the captured Redbrands are forced to patrol under his supervision and listen to him sing his songs all day. Which, we all agreed, is the worst punishment we could have possibly come up with.
So yeah, that's one way to handle Klarg.
Great story Kromlock. I've heard of other groups 'adopting' Klarg as an ally in some way. It didn't occur to me at the time but that might've been a fun way to play it.
Unfortunately my PC's caught up with Klarg in Phandalin and I was not successful in getting him away a second time. He came to an untimely end and I learned an important lesson on not involving reoccurring bad guys in combat. Ever. They should just poke their head out from behind a group of minions and then exit.
My group is actually still running through LMoP. We only meet once a month for 4 hours so we will likely be in the adventure for a while yet. They did end up locking the Harbin Wester, the Townmaster, in his own jail however. The Townmaster wanted to talk it out with the Redbrands and the PC's were not having it.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
I had him take a squad of hobgoblins and hunt down the party once the Black Spider issued orders that they were to be eliminated. Setting up an ambush in the ruins of Conyberry when they were on their way back from Agatha's made for a fun fight.
it's not a video game, klarg could run off and start a roadside flower shop. I just mean he does not need to be brought to 0 hp to have fun.
I do think you need to play the alignment honestly, as a chaotic evil lazy bully he is unlikely to tell the authorities, grol or the rebrands. he may run, absolutely, but I think he would rally his goblins to flush the characters out so he can crush them. he just needs a plan, and to the heroes benefit... it need not be a perfect plan.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
There are lots of ways to play a chaotic evil alignment. The description in the 5E book only says: 'Chaotic evil (CE) creatures act with arbitrary violence, spurred by their greed, hatred, or bloodlust. Demons, red dragons, and orcs are chaotic evil.' Any additional description or attribute of Chaotic evil is coming from past experience or personal expectations.
My King Klarg fled a loosing battle at the Cragmaw caves and ran to the only other fellow goblins he knew, Cragmaw Castle. He was, in turn, ordered by King Grol to warn the Redbrands in Phandalin. My players were sneaky enough to catch him and a few bugbear allies by surprise and killed Klarg before he could run away a second time.
But as it can be seen above, there are lots of options with how to deal with King Klarg, and by extension any NPC. Having a NPC running around in the background like this is a great way to put some drama in the game. My Player's had immense satisfaction in finishing off Klarg. If he had survived (or died in a way which I could bring him back) that satisfaction would no doubt have been compounded.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats