I played a one-shot recently where the DM insisted that an arcane focus was ALL that was necessary to cast spells PERIOD. He said that 'spell components are a hassle to acquire and keep up with' and I thought 'huh well you're an idiot' but I let him play his game, his way and just felt kind of lost. I mean because A to Z problems would arise in an ongoing campaign disregarding components like an extreme example of ALL the things necessary for resurrection... Anyways how do y'all handle a focus vs. having components and focus? I believe it's more or less a symbol of your PCs or an NPCs magic akin to a cleric/paladin with a holy symbol. Sure the magic is 'inside them' too but they use this outward object to uh you know 'focus' their energies and intent. Spell components are still very, very, very much necessary to RP as well as purchase in-game.
Thoughts?
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Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
It really comes down to table rules. Not all DMs - and not all players - want to deal with the minutiae of spell components.
Some only invoke spell components for very rare, or very expensive components ( as for resurrection ) - and just take it as read that a spellcaster would be gathering mundane components when they can. Personally, I kind of fall in this camp. I won't enforce for minor common spell components - but if a player really wanted to play up the aspect as an RP cue ( kind of like Liam O'Brien does with Caleb in Critical Role ), I have no objections.
For something like Resurrection - I would enforce the acquisition of the required diamond.
Since this was a one shot there's no point - but with an ongoing campaign, work out that sort of thing in Session 0.
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Somewhat recently, I've implemented a house-rule in my 5th edition games to make spell casting work the way it did in not-engaging-optional-rules AD&D 2nd edition and BECMI D&D, which works thusly: If you can speak intelligibly, and freely move your arms and hands, you can cast your spells (with the added benefit that casters of divine spells need only have their holy symbol in hand, rather than be able to freely move their arms and hands).
No material components needed, whether they cost a bunch or not and whether they are "used up" or not.
Because either the spells are balanced assuming that the players can actual cast them when they "need" to, or I'll see some huge unexpected problems arise by playing this way that will indicate that certain spells need to be moved to higher levels or entirely removed from the game.
If you want to go with RAW, this is what the players handbook has to say about material cost for spellcasting:
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
And this is how I have played all my games. So, simple spells like feather fall where the material cost is "a small feather or piece of down" a spellcasting focus in place of this has always been cool to use. Spells like Resurrection, where there is not only a GP cost associated with the spell component, along with saying the component is "consumed" really should have that component be present and/or used.
If you want to go with RAW, this is what the players handbook has to say about material cost for spellcasting:
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
And this is how I have played all my games. So, simple spells like feather fall where the material cost is "a small feather or piece of down" a spellcasting focus in place of this has always been cool to use. Spells like Resurrection, where there is not only a GP cost associated with the spell component, along with saying the component is "consumed" really should have that component be present and/or used.
Hope this helps!
I find that most people who post on these forums rarely read the actual rules. You and I, good sir, are in the minority. LOL!
I definitely don't track or care about any components without a gold cost. They can either be in a component pouch or replaced by a focus. Anything with a gold cost that is not consumed I ignore the actual material and treat this as a "cost to learn the spell" (or to prepare it for the first time), and just deduct the cash necessary. Likewise consumed gold-cost components can just be paid for in gold at the time of the casting. But then, in my games "gold" is a generic term for all coins, gems, trade goods and other treasure, so maybe there is a diamond in that pile after all. If a character is separated from their focus and all components then they can search an area for things to use to cast a simple spell and roll an Arcana check to see if they find enough bits of fluff to cast something. Players can RP as much or as little as they like beyond that.
This I feel is a good balance between maintaining the cost while not interfering with the flow of the game.
i have a component pouch be something akin to a bag of holding and i drop in little spell components here there and everywhere, then i drop in apothecaries and alchemists here and there so they can trade in components, find some glowing fungus on a dungeon wall, marvellous light spell component, stuff some in the pouch, stuff some more in a vial, trade the vial with your local alchemist for some other component, as long as they tend the pouch, then they are assumed to have components. i still require them to posses the components which get used up specifically as stated in the description, but again they get stored in the pouch so don't take up any weight..
in my current campaign, their first dungeon held a source of both glowing fungus and bat guano and it's relatively local, both are tradeable so they are sorted on those components. part of their next quest line is collecting the juice of some berries which is used in making healing potions by the healing order in the temple they are working for. the conversation led to them acquiring a small book with the plant descriptions required to make a basic healing potion, they will be able to collect most of those on this trip, all of that is extra fluff as side quests while performing their main objective.
i've changed focuses completely to being objects which augment aspects of spells such as extensions to duration or range or other aspects of it. some of them consumable some limited to a single spell others a range of spells and others a whole school.so ultimately you might end up with something like a +1 evocation focus crystal or a +2 pendant of hypnosis, that boosts charms and suchlike
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
To me, Spell Component bags are the best thing and Foci are a joke.
Foci only let you replace the M & S if there is an M and if it is not consumed. This requires too much of reading of your spell for my taste. It works in too limited number of times.
On the otherhand a Component Pouch "A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description)." This holds *everything* you need for any spell as long as the component doesn't have a specific cost, consume or not consumed. All you need is to always have a free hand.
On the otherhand a Component Pouch "A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description)." This holds *everything* you need for any spell as long as the component doesn't have a specific cost, consume or not consumed. All you need is to always have a free hand.
Component pouches are great for multiclass spellcasters since you don't have to juggle multiple spellcasting focuses, but otherwise they don't have any advantages for single-classed characters. That's especially true for clerics and paladins since they can put their holy symbol on their shield.
You're still going on the idea that you have to stock your component pouch with various components as you go, right? That's how I always interpreted it.
You're still going on the idea that you have to stock your component pouch with various components as you go, right? That's how I always interpreted it.
Strictly speaking, no. The component pouch already has everything you need, whatever that may be. It's also really expensive (25g) so that's most likely on purpose.
Do y'all feel the arcane focus can be anything or just those describes as wand, rod, orb, crystal, or staff?
Ex thinking Hexblade just using the blade!!
I don't think there's any harm in allowing unusual focuses as long as they're thematic and the player isn't trying to gain some sort of mechanical advantage. They're mostly there for flavor, since they more or less all do the same thing (other than the staff potentially doubling as a quarterstaff.)
College of Swords bards and Pact of the Blade warlocks already have features for using their weapon as a focus and I wouldn't want to cheapen those features.
if it's your own paper tabletop game there's nothing stopping you, personally i'd send them off on a quest that gets a special focus as a reward, touch it to the pommel cast mending, then you have a sword that can be used as a focus as long as the crystal is attached
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
In the Player's Handbook "arcane focus" isn't a stand-alone item, it's just a category of items.
The DM is always free to say that in their world, other kinds of items can be used as a focus. As a player, I wouldn't make any assumptions unless the DM's already said otherwise.
You're still going on the idea that you have to stock your component pouch with various components as you go, right? That's how I always interpreted it.
i am yes, it's something you do as an integral part of adventuring and your personal economy, i'm also a big fan of part of the motivation of going fighting big nasty monsters, is to get components to cast spells to help you while you're fighting big nasty monsters for a spellcaster,
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
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Hello all!
I played a one-shot recently where the DM insisted that an arcane focus was ALL that was necessary to cast spells PERIOD. He said that 'spell components are a hassle to acquire and keep up with' and I thought 'huh well you're an idiot' but I let him play his game, his way and just felt kind of lost. I mean because A to Z problems would arise in an ongoing campaign disregarding components like an extreme example of ALL the things necessary for resurrection... Anyways how do y'all handle a focus vs. having components and focus? I believe it's more or less a symbol of your PCs or an NPCs magic akin to a cleric/paladin with a holy symbol. Sure the magic is 'inside them' too but they use this outward object to uh you know 'focus' their energies and intent. Spell components are still very, very, very much necessary to RP as well as purchase in-game.
Thoughts?
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
Thought: that there is no one right answer.
It really comes down to table rules. Not all DMs - and not all players - want to deal with the minutiae of spell components.
Some only invoke spell components for very rare, or very expensive components ( as for resurrection ) - and just take it as read that a spellcaster would be gathering mundane components when they can. Personally, I kind of fall in this camp. I won't enforce for minor common spell components - but if a player really wanted to play up the aspect as an RP cue ( kind of like Liam O'Brien does with Caleb in Critical Role ), I have no objections.
For something like Resurrection - I would enforce the acquisition of the required diamond.
Since this was a one shot there's no point - but with an ongoing campaign, work out that sort of thing in Session 0.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Somewhat recently, I've implemented a house-rule in my 5th edition games to make spell casting work the way it did in not-engaging-optional-rules AD&D 2nd edition and BECMI D&D, which works thusly: If you can speak intelligibly, and freely move your arms and hands, you can cast your spells (with the added benefit that casters of divine spells need only have their holy symbol in hand, rather than be able to freely move their arms and hands).
No material components needed, whether they cost a bunch or not and whether they are "used up" or not.
Because either the spells are balanced assuming that the players can actual cast them when they "need" to, or I'll see some huge unexpected problems arise by playing this way that will indicate that certain spells need to be moved to higher levels or entirely removed from the game.
If you want to go with RAW, this is what the players handbook has to say about material cost for spellcasting:
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
And this is how I have played all my games. So, simple spells like feather fall where the material cost is "a small feather or piece of down" a spellcasting focus in place of this has always been cool to use. Spells like Resurrection, where there is not only a GP cost associated with the spell component, along with saying the component is "consumed" really should have that component be present and/or used.
Hope this helps!
I find that most people who post on these forums rarely read the actual rules. You and I, good sir, are in the minority. LOL!
Dungeonmastering since 1992!
I'm aware of rules guys I was asking how people handle it in gameplay sorry if that was not better implied!!
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
Every GM is different. Some will do it one way, others another.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I definitely don't track or care about any components without a gold cost. They can either be in a component pouch or replaced by a focus. Anything with a gold cost that is not consumed I ignore the actual material and treat this as a "cost to learn the spell" (or to prepare it for the first time), and just deduct the cash necessary. Likewise consumed gold-cost components can just be paid for in gold at the time of the casting. But then, in my games "gold" is a generic term for all coins, gems, trade goods and other treasure, so maybe there is a diamond in that pile after all. If a character is separated from their focus and all components then they can search an area for things to use to cast a simple spell and roll an Arcana check to see if they find enough bits of fluff to cast something. Players can RP as much or as little as they like beyond that.
This I feel is a good balance between maintaining the cost while not interfering with the flow of the game.
What is interesting to note is that 3 spellcasters (any ranger, arcane trickster, eldritch knight) cannot use arcane foci.
i have a component pouch be something akin to a bag of holding and i drop in little spell components here there and everywhere, then i drop in apothecaries and alchemists here and there so they can trade in components, find some glowing fungus on a dungeon wall, marvellous light spell component, stuff some in the pouch, stuff some more in a vial, trade the vial with your local alchemist for some other component, as long as they tend the pouch, then they are assumed to have components. i still require them to posses the components which get used up specifically as stated in the description, but again they get stored in the pouch so don't take up any weight..
in my current campaign, their first dungeon held a source of both glowing fungus and bat guano and it's relatively local, both are tradeable so they are sorted on those components. part of their next quest line is collecting the juice of some berries which is used in making healing potions by the healing order in the temple they are working for. the conversation led to them acquiring a small book with the plant descriptions required to make a basic healing potion, they will be able to collect most of those on this trip, all of that is extra fluff as side quests while performing their main objective.
i've changed focuses completely to being objects which augment aspects of spells such as extensions to duration or range or other aspects of it. some of them consumable some limited to a single spell others a range of spells and others a whole school.so ultimately you might end up with something like a +1 evocation focus crystal or a +2 pendant of hypnosis, that boosts charms and suchlike
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
To me, Spell Component bags are the best thing and Foci are a joke.
Foci only let you replace the M & S if there is an M and if it is not consumed.
This requires too much of reading of your spell for my taste. It works in too limited number of times.
On the otherhand a Component Pouch "A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description)."
This holds *everything* you need for any spell as long as the component doesn't have a specific cost, consume or not consumed. All you need is to always have a free hand.
Even my Paladin buys a Component Pouch by lvl 2.
A component pouch can't substitute for consumed components either.
Component pouches are great for multiclass spellcasters since you don't have to juggle multiple spellcasting focuses, but otherwise they don't have any advantages for single-classed characters. That's especially true for clerics and paladins since they can put their holy symbol on their shield.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
You're still going on the idea that you have to stock your component pouch with various components as you go, right? That's how I always interpreted it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Do y'all feel the arcane focus can be anything or just those describes as wand, rod, orb, crystal, or staff?
Ex thinking Hexblade just using the blade!!
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
Strictly speaking, no. The component pouch already has everything you need, whatever that may be. It's also really expensive (25g) so that's most likely on purpose.
I don't think there's any harm in allowing unusual focuses as long as they're thematic and the player isn't trying to gain some sort of mechanical advantage. They're mostly there for flavor, since they more or less all do the same thing (other than the staff potentially doubling as a quarterstaff.)
College of Swords bards and Pact of the Blade warlocks already have features for using their weapon as a focus and I wouldn't want to cheapen those features.
Xanathar's added some additional options (Hat of Wizardry, Dark Shard Amulet and Ruby of the War Mage) that confer minor benefits and require attunement.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Generally speaking, any item not designed to be a focus, cannot be used as a focus unless some other rule or feature allows you to.
I just figured since one of the option in the books as well as here in equipment is simply arcane focus it was more DM approval/desicion based!
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
if it's your own paper tabletop game there's nothing stopping you,
personally i'd send them off on a quest that gets a special focus as a reward, touch it to the pommel cast mending, then you have a sword that can be used as a focus as long as the crystal is attached
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
In the Player's Handbook "arcane focus" isn't a stand-alone item, it's just a category of items.
The DM is always free to say that in their world, other kinds of items can be used as a focus. As a player, I wouldn't make any assumptions unless the DM's already said otherwise.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
i am yes, it's something you do as an integral part of adventuring and your personal economy, i'm also a big fan of part of the motivation of going fighting big nasty monsters, is to get components to cast spells to help you while you're fighting big nasty monsters for a spellcaster,
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled