Hi, I just wanted to ask what does anybody think a good motive for a murder cult with a necromancer as its leader. Do you think that the Necromancer and his followers are trying to take over the city with their undead army is a good idea.
The main trait a necromancer is known for is being able to bring the dead back to life, in either good (rare) or really bad ways. Maybe this necromancer cult leader promises the cult members they can bring back lost loved ones, or maybe offers them some form of immortality, but later it is revealed that all the necromancer can do is raise you or your loved ones as a zombie.
Kobold Press has an outstanding book called Demon Cults and Secret Societies. I borrowed heavily from it for the final encounter of my first story arc and now I'm borrowing from it again in my second story arc, although I'm taking a concept and modifying it heavily this time around. I highly recommend this supplement for your subject matter. It has 13 different organizations to use for inspiration or crib directly from.
As for advice, a cult leader is charismatic and appeals to his followers by convincing them their life is lacking something that he can provide to them. In a world of magic, a necromancer can offer weak, sick, poor people a chance for power, control over death, and/or material wealth. Also, a murder cult is a great way for a necromancer to boost his minion numbers.
Well the obvious reason for a cult lead by a necromancer to murder people is to increase the cult's power (with undead).
Reasons people might join said cult are pretty much covered by previous posts (immortality, raising loved ones, religion), but I'll add to gain power as an individual (learn magic, get martial training, strength in numbers, etc).
Matthew Colville has a video called "Bad guys! Running the Game #15" . In which he talks about a bad guy called Kalarel the Vile. He's a character from a 4th edition campaign that Colville has given some really interesting flavor. I definitely want to try run pieces of this video at some point.
For your case you would need to change the flavor of things a bit, but your murder cult could be gathering bodies for Kalarel. Don't know if you can slot a growing fortress that summons a bbeg into your campaign, but it could at least be a good motivation to your party
I actually have a similar question as this guy how do you start a cult with the person saying oh I may God and I want you guys to join me it's still going to be a more difficult and I'm going to try and present reasons like you guys said but how do you say oh I'm the God not like some other deity or me being an avatar.
Hi, I just wanted to ask what does anybody think a good motive for a murder cult with a necromancer as its leader. Do you think that the Necromancer and his followers are trying to take over the city with their undead army is a good idea.
Check out the Forgotten Realms Cult of the Dragon for inspiration. There's some history on the web to read. It's basically an evil cult that was formed to make undead and lich dragons. I think the followers are interested in serving the dragons to gain their own power and status. I think that story might help you develop something. Replace dragons with other things and it might fit.
The Cult of the Dragon can be the basis for a necromantsy focused cult, but the full lore is a bit more complicated than that.
Anyway, since you said "murder cult" and you're talking more "human necromancy," if you're looking for published examples in 5e and other edition lore as a basis, you may want to look at the Cult of the Dead Three that pops up around Baldur's Gate and elsewhere in the Forgotten Realms.
Why the Dead Three are called the Dead Three I wont' get into, but folks who are interested in the whole "How do I kill and become a God?" question that pops up on these boards, there you go. We won't bother with Bane, he's a god of tyranny and probably not what you're looking for. Bhaal is an actual god of murder, so murdering people is just how Bhaal cultists follow their faith. Myrkul is a god of death that leans heavily into necromancy.
A murder cult isn't necessarily a necromancy cult and vice versa, but in the Dead Three, you have a necromantic cult that could "benefit" from the murder cult. Otherwise, why would a necromancy cult spend time and resources murdering people, when it could just grab recent bodies from the normal flow of death in city, unless they were targetting particular types of bodies or souls for necromancy....
in Baldur's Gate Descent into Avernus, the Cult of the Dead Three was actually being paid/duped into causing disruption through mayhem as a means to cover up the activities of one. of BG's Devil Worshipping cults (Baldur's Gate has a lot of cults....).
So in the end a necromancy cult trying to "take over the city" with an "army of undead" could be good, but. the why's and hows of it are important. Like why. does the leader want to rule the city? For a one shot or short campaign, protect the city from the rising undead army is fine, but there's a lot more you can do with it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm sorry for not clarifying I am a level 11 bard with+5 to charisma and a plus 11 to persuasion He's trying to start a cult worshiping him but what you were talking about seeing these more a lot what I was thinking so thank you.
Yeah, that's called being a charlatan. They're prone to being exposed since an. 11th level character won't be exhibiting god like power, and there are, you know in D&D, actual gods who may not take kindly. to someone blaspheming in this fashion. But if you want a cult, see if your DM will let you do so with high persuasion. Keep in mind persuasion is persuasion, not domination even at +11. If you really want mindless stereotyped minions you're likely going to need to do more than simply be an effective speaker, sorta like actual cult leaders. The formula for individual and group psychology is easily found through Google fu, it's sorta dark stuff though.
You're a Bard, just be a rock star and leave it at that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
One of the most important factors of all cults is that the leader never truly believes what's being taught. You can't sit at the top and not see your own lies for what they are (and to get to the top, probably need to know them already). Cult leaders are super egomaniacs. The cult leader should partake of every forbidden behaviour and do basically the opposite of whatever they tell their cult members.
The cult leader therefore wants something. He happens to be a necromancer - so what does he desire? Few people would want to just control an army of stinking corpses. They must have an end game. Perhaps the city belonged to him before he was ousted for tinkering with dark magic, and he wants to reclaim it.
The cultists must be both awed by something, and promised something in return for participating. They also must give something up (this is a key part of cult behaviour - rejection of the ordinary). So let's say they give up one of their eyes, so that the other eye sees better. The cult leader maybe promises that if they reach his level of ability they can see into the future as he can. The leader gets to keep both of his eyes, claiming that when you get powerful enough, it regrows.
One of the most important factors of all cults is that the leader never truly believes what's being taught. You can't sit at the top and not see your own lies for what they are (and to get to the top, probably need to know them already). Cult leaders are super egomaniacs. The cult leader should partake of every forbidden behaviour and do basically the opposite of whatever they tell their cult members.
The cult leader therefore wants something. He happens to be a necromancer - so what does he desire? Few people would want to just control an army of stinking corpses. They must have an end game. Perhaps the city belonged to him before he was ousted for tinkering with dark magic, and he wants to reclaim it.
The cultists must be both awed by something, and promised something in return for participating. They also must give something up (this is a key part of cult behaviour - rejection of the ordinary). So let's say they give up one of their eyes, so that the other eye sees better. The cult leader maybe promises that if they reach his level of ability they can see into the future as he can. The leader gets to keep both of his eyes, claiming that when you get powerful enough, it regrows.
Some cult leaders are charlatans or otherwise exploitative and your logic applies there, But messianic delusions are in fact a thing and many cult leaders also are "true believers" rather than charlatans. It's the case with most if not all forms of radicalism (some leaders have cynical motivations, some are true believers). And in D&D where access to supernatural powers is actually kinda plausible, I could say "true believers" among cult leaders are even more plausible than the IRL modern skeptical outlook. I mean, this thread was about D&D Murder cults at the onset before this "how do I lead a cult" digression, and The Cult of the Dragon had a mix of believers and cynics in their various iterations, often simultaneously; and the Cult of the Dead Three, while cynically manipulated in BG:DiA by other cults, were generally of the true believer mindset in their occurences over the history of BG.
So the player in this post must decide wether they are forming a cult to exploit its members or is a "true believer" in whatever they're trying to accomplish. It's why I suggested rock star tropes as probably the easiest way for a Bard to get into this racket.
I'm going to be the culd leader that does not believe in what they're teaching. my players did you just like okay I need to get power so I'm going to get a bunch of followers to basically turn me into a God because I remember the kuo-toa who made false gods just though sheer belief that's what my character is trying to do while oh for the part where they said that they need to give up something you going to have them give up thier child and need them to sacrifice the child so that they have a better immortal life and if they don't have a child they need to kill a child basically what they need to give up for like their child for that or so that their next child shall be one of the greatest there are or something like that so that's basically what I'm trying to accomplish.
Thank you for all your help and thank you for the original person for not going into the post and be like hey why did you keep post that inside my thing this is my post get your own I don't know how to make a post so thank you.
Hi, I just wanted to ask what does anybody think a good motive for a murder cult with a necromancer as its leader. Do you think that the Necromancer and his followers are trying to take over the city with their undead army is a good idea.
Maybe they think that the necromancer is the avatar of their god and blindly obey him.
I stole my pfp from this person: https://mobile.twitter.com/xelart1/status/1177312449575432193
The main trait a necromancer is known for is being able to bring the dead back to life, in either good (rare) or really bad ways. Maybe this necromancer cult leader promises the cult members they can bring back lost loved ones, or maybe offers them some form of immortality, but later it is revealed that all the necromancer can do is raise you or your loved ones as a zombie.
Kobold Press has an outstanding book called Demon Cults and Secret Societies. I borrowed heavily from it for the final encounter of my first story arc and now I'm borrowing from it again in my second story arc, although I'm taking a concept and modifying it heavily this time around. I highly recommend this supplement for your subject matter. It has 13 different organizations to use for inspiration or crib directly from.
As for advice, a cult leader is charismatic and appeals to his followers by convincing them their life is lacking something that he can provide to them. In a world of magic, a necromancer can offer weak, sick, poor people a chance for power, control over death, and/or material wealth. Also, a murder cult is a great way for a necromancer to boost his minion numbers.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Well the obvious reason for a cult lead by a necromancer to murder people is to increase the cult's power (with undead).
Reasons people might join said cult are pretty much covered by previous posts (immortality, raising loved ones, religion), but I'll add to gain power as an individual (learn magic, get martial training, strength in numbers, etc).
They could be worshippers of Orcus, the demon prince of undeath.
"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
-Actual conversation in a game.
Matthew Colville has a video called "Bad guys! Running the Game #15" . In which he talks about a bad guy called Kalarel the Vile. He's a character from a 4th edition campaign that Colville has given some really interesting flavor. I definitely want to try run pieces of this video at some point.
For your case you would need to change the flavor of things a bit, but your murder cult could be gathering bodies for Kalarel. Don't know if you can slot a growing fortress that summons a bbeg into your campaign, but it could at least be a good motivation to your party
I actually have a similar question as this guy how do you start a cult with the person saying oh I may God and I want you guys to join me it's still going to be a more difficult and I'm going to try and present reasons like you guys said but how do you say oh I'm the God not like some other deity or me being an avatar.
Check out the Forgotten Realms Cult of the Dragon for inspiration. There's some history on the web to read. It's basically an evil cult that was formed to make undead and lich dragons. I think the followers are interested in serving the dragons to gain their own power and status. I think that story might help you develop something. Replace dragons with other things and it might fit.
Good luck.
Thank you
The Cult of the Dragon can be the basis for a necromantsy focused cult, but the full lore is a bit more complicated than that.
Anyway, since you said "murder cult" and you're talking more "human necromancy," if you're looking for published examples in 5e and other edition lore as a basis, you may want to look at the Cult of the Dead Three that pops up around Baldur's Gate and elsewhere in the Forgotten Realms.
Why the Dead Three are called the Dead Three I wont' get into, but folks who are interested in the whole "How do I kill and become a God?" question that pops up on these boards, there you go. We won't bother with Bane, he's a god of tyranny and probably not what you're looking for. Bhaal is an actual god of murder, so murdering people is just how Bhaal cultists follow their faith. Myrkul is a god of death that leans heavily into necromancy.
A murder cult isn't necessarily a necromancy cult and vice versa, but in the Dead Three, you have a necromantic cult that could "benefit" from the murder cult. Otherwise, why would a necromancy cult spend time and resources murdering people, when it could just grab recent bodies from the normal flow of death in city, unless they were targetting particular types of bodies or souls for necromancy....
in Baldur's Gate Descent into Avernus, the Cult of the Dead Three was actually being paid/duped into causing disruption through mayhem as a means to cover up the activities of one. of BG's Devil Worshipping cults (Baldur's Gate has a lot of cults....).
So in the end a necromancy cult trying to "take over the city" with an "army of undead" could be good, but. the why's and hows of it are important. Like why. does the leader want to rule the city? For a one shot or short campaign, protect the city from the rising undead army is fine, but there's a lot more you can do with it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm sorry for not clarifying I am a level 11 bard with+5 to charisma and a plus 11 to persuasion He's trying to start a cult worshiping him but what you were talking about seeing these more a lot what I was thinking so thank you.
Yeah, that's called being a charlatan. They're prone to being exposed since an. 11th level character won't be exhibiting god like power, and there are, you know in D&D, actual gods who may not take kindly. to someone blaspheming in this fashion. But if you want a cult, see if your DM will let you do so with high persuasion. Keep in mind persuasion is persuasion, not domination even at +11. If you really want mindless stereotyped minions you're likely going to need to do more than simply be an effective speaker, sorta like actual cult leaders. The formula for individual and group psychology is easily found through Google fu, it's sorta dark stuff though.
You're a Bard, just be a rock star and leave it at that.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
One of the most important factors of all cults is that the leader never truly believes what's being taught. You can't sit at the top and not see your own lies for what they are (and to get to the top, probably need to know them already). Cult leaders are super egomaniacs. The cult leader should partake of every forbidden behaviour and do basically the opposite of whatever they tell their cult members.
The cult leader therefore wants something. He happens to be a necromancer - so what does he desire? Few people would want to just control an army of stinking corpses. They must have an end game. Perhaps the city belonged to him before he was ousted for tinkering with dark magic, and he wants to reclaim it.
The cultists must be both awed by something, and promised something in return for participating. They also must give something up (this is a key part of cult behaviour - rejection of the ordinary). So let's say they give up one of their eyes, so that the other eye sees better. The cult leader maybe promises that if they reach his level of ability they can see into the future as he can. The leader gets to keep both of his eyes, claiming that when you get powerful enough, it regrows.
Some cult leaders are charlatans or otherwise exploitative and your logic applies there, But messianic delusions are in fact a thing and many cult leaders also are "true believers" rather than charlatans. It's the case with most if not all forms of radicalism (some leaders have cynical motivations, some are true believers). And in D&D where access to supernatural powers is actually kinda plausible, I could say "true believers" among cult leaders are even more plausible than the IRL modern skeptical outlook. I mean, this thread was about D&D Murder cults at the onset before this "how do I lead a cult" digression, and The Cult of the Dragon had a mix of believers and cynics in their various iterations, often simultaneously; and the Cult of the Dead Three, while cynically manipulated in BG:DiA by other cults, were generally of the true believer mindset in their occurences over the history of BG.
So the player in this post must decide wether they are forming a cult to exploit its members or is a "true believer" in whatever they're trying to accomplish. It's why I suggested rock star tropes as probably the easiest way for a Bard to get into this racket.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm going to be the culd leader that does not believe in what they're teaching. my players did you just like okay I need to get power so I'm going to get a bunch of followers to basically turn me into a God because I remember the kuo-toa who made false gods just though sheer belief that's what my character is trying to do while oh for the part where they said that they need to give up something you going to have them give up thier child and need them to sacrifice the child so that they have a better immortal life and if they don't have a child they need to kill a child basically what they need to give up for like their child for that or so that their next child shall be one of the greatest there are or something like that so that's basically what I'm trying to accomplish.
Thank you for all your help and thank you for the original person for not going into the post and be like hey why did you keep post that inside my thing this is my post get your own I don't know how to make a post so thank you.