hey, i'm dming for the first time and writing my own campaign. i've already been told this is probably not the best idea, but i've already written most of it, so if it crashes and burns i figure that's what i get. i want to do a very character-focused campaign, and my players have been working with me, which is wonderful. however i also want to kind of keep the gameplay interesting so it's not just battle, explore, battle, explore ad nauseum. one thing i want to do specifically is something that i've never really heard of in dnd (but then, i haven't really been involved with the "socializing with other dms" part of dnd-- my dm advice thus far has all been from my dad, a seasoned dm, thus far, and he's one of my players). so, what i'm thinking is this. my players have been scouted for a rescue mission by the duke of a nearby city-state because his eldest daughter went missing searching for an artifact that's theoretically supposed to grant the user one wish, no matter how impossible, however most people assume that it's a fairy tale because there's very little to go on. in order to test them, he's set up a trial, which in addition to your typical "fight these monsters and solve these puzzles" deal, involves having the players all fight each other in a kind of battle royale thing, to test how they think against enemies smarter than your average zombie or slime. this'll be after they've already worked together fighting against the less-intelligent monsters and have an idea of each others' capabilities. in addition to being a kind of twist on combat, i think this'll help my players strategize more independently and figure out which of their abilities and capabilities will work for or against each other.
my issue is that i don't really know how well this will work in practice. do any of y'all have experience with this kind of combat, and if so, can you offer any tips? thanks!
The problem with the battle royale is that it doesn't test their smarts in battle and only who is stronger in a fight. If you really want to do that, have them have to find a way to trap an opponent with minimal resources, or have to escape a trap while being in endless combat until problem is solved, or they have to play a thinking game (like chess, checkers, etc.) against the court wizard who has never lost but evaluates the party on how well they played. There are a number of ways to test them in this way other than a battle royale that are more suitable for the situation. Without knowing their levels, I'm going to say that a fighter would be able to overpower a spell caster rather quickly without having to do much strategizing. Well I hope this woks out for you and that I was of some help.
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Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
I'd think the characters would simply refuse to fight one another.
Also the Duke's motivation seems weak... Why NOT send anybody out to rescue your daughter? Why the trials? Take what you can get, Duke!
What if there's some aspect of the artifact (or its protections) that could destroy the party, and he's trying to guard against it? Like it can turn you against your friends, or make them appear to be something else? He doesn't tell them this part of the legend, but to test them, each player is put in a "different" arena, fighting X other monsters, but in reality they're all in the same ring, fighting one another. They can only win by figuring it out before they murder each other.
That would be very hard to DM, so maybe it's not feasible. Anyway, pitting them against each other seems like a big problem.
PvP is probably a bad idea. Not every character is designed to fight solo. What I would recommend if you really want that kind of fight is to have the court wizard summon them to the "game room" in which they are placed on a black and white checkered grid (8x8). Each character is asked to choose a starting square in the first two rows. After they are settled, the lights dim and when they come back up, directly across from them is a clone of themselves. FIGHT! The squares can change color or restrict movement (have the enemy move in a way similar to chess pieces but for no reason - just to throw the party off) or have hidden traps.
They are being recruited as a team so teamwork should be stressed. PvP will only make your Life Domain Cleric really really sad.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
... in reality they're all in the same ring, fighting one another. They can only win by figuring it out before they murder each other.
oh i hadn't thought of that! that sounds really cool! maybe the monsters are like, puppets or mannequins of some kind animated with magic, or at least that's how they appear? so when one player attacks the "mannequin" corresponding to a party member, the party member takes the damage? though maybe there's a delay, because my players are pretty smart and would probably figure it out pretty quick if attacking the puppet with the staff means the party monk gets hurt. and maybe i could ask for them to roll for perception before the attack hits to see if they can see through it?
so okay in that case, maybe the spell they're using restricts their communication as well, so when one player figures it out i could take them aside and tell them individually, so they would have to figure out a way to communicate with their fellow players in-character. and maybe once they all figure it out, i can see that leading into a boss battle really nicely.
also you pretty much nailed why the duke's going through all this stuff to find Capable Adventurers-- the crown itself isn't necessarily dangerous, but according to legend, it has extremely powerful magical guardians that manifest as magic items that mess with party communication, mainly, though all of them have some other fun tricks. the duke's already lost several teams to that kind of thing and would like to minimize that risk before hiring another group of adventurers.
i should also mention-- all of the combat in this first dungeon will ultimately be non-lethal, even if a character gets their hp dropped to zero, because requiring death saves in the very first dungeon seems like kind of a downer and not the best way to set the tone for the rest of the campaign. i'm still ironing out the specifics, of course.
My advice, if you want to run a "character focused" game is to definitely avoid "writing a campaign". Sure, you can set up the initial encounters and have a rough sketch of some scenes you can throw in when needed but running a character focused game means that you have to be ready to let the story flow from the actions of the characters, not from the pre-written script you have in mind.
I also think that forcing the players to PvP each other won't lead to them undertaking a rescue mission for the very person who put them into that situation. Most likely, it will make the players angry at the GM. Minimally, it will make your quest-giver into the big-bad-evil guy in the player's minds.
The initial adventure/session of your campaign is meant to cement the party, not drive wedges between then, as PvP has the potential to do ( even if not lethal; do the participants know that? ). Perhaps your Party comes pre-formed ( the Players have interwoven their backstories, and are already a group ), in which case they will likely just refuse to fight their friends.
I have never seen a Party that requires encouragement to learn to "strategize more independently" - usually it's a fight to get them to work as a coordinated team.
If you really don't like the Explore/Fight/Socialize cycle of D&D - this might not be the game for you - however, I think there are endless ways to re-frame, present, and vary how you present socialization, combat, and exploration. You may find putting your effort into making encounters memorable, novel, enjoyable, and not a grindy cycle, to be more fruitful.
Beware of making situations too restrictive, or too complex. Aspects of an encounter which seem obvious to the DM, are seldom obvious to the Party.
Why does the Duke care if he loses another Party, exactly? Just keep throwing mercenaries at the situation. If they don't come back, you don't have to pay them - and if you just keep throwing them at the problem, eventually one will succeed. Your premise, NPCs, and their motivations, need to make in-world sense.
The Duke wishing to test out the strength of the people he is going to hire makes a kind of sense, but killing off 2/3 of your potential help before they go on the mission, does not.
Other possibilities are:
An audition adventure: go do this thing, bring me this item ( apprehend this outlaw, etc.), to prove to me your capabilities.
A tournament / contest with NPCs to determine who is the most capable local hero. Winner(s) gets valuable prizes, and a job offer from the Duke.
Both of these are pretty classic adventure patterns - which means your Players will know how to play them out. #1 allows your Party to bond, #2 allows your Party to test out their abilities and to show off.
You could even do both - do #2, the winners get equipped as a team and sent out on a test quest - and then, if successful, move on up to the real adventure.
cDC hit the nail on the head. Do not "write a campaign", because the Players will not stick to your script. All you will do is make yourself frustrated as the Players ignore the storyline you put a lot of effort crafting.
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hey, i'm dming for the first time and writing my own campaign. i've already been told this is probably not the best idea, but i've already written most of it, so if it crashes and burns i figure that's what i get. i want to do a very character-focused campaign, and my players have been working with me, which is wonderful. however i also want to kind of keep the gameplay interesting so it's not just battle, explore, battle, explore ad nauseum. one thing i want to do specifically is something that i've never really heard of in dnd (but then, i haven't really been involved with the "socializing with other dms" part of dnd-- my dm advice thus far has all been from my dad, a seasoned dm, thus far, and he's one of my players). so, what i'm thinking is this. my players have been scouted for a rescue mission by the duke of a nearby city-state because his eldest daughter went missing searching for an artifact that's theoretically supposed to grant the user one wish, no matter how impossible, however most people assume that it's a fairy tale because there's very little to go on. in order to test them, he's set up a trial, which in addition to your typical "fight these monsters and solve these puzzles" deal, involves having the players all fight each other in a kind of battle royale thing, to test how they think against enemies smarter than your average zombie or slime. this'll be after they've already worked together fighting against the less-intelligent monsters and have an idea of each others' capabilities. in addition to being a kind of twist on combat, i think this'll help my players strategize more independently and figure out which of their abilities and capabilities will work for or against each other.
my issue is that i don't really know how well this will work in practice. do any of y'all have experience with this kind of combat, and if so, can you offer any tips? thanks!
orcs aren't evil they're hot and misunderstood
The problem with the battle royale is that it doesn't test their smarts in battle and only who is stronger in a fight. If you really want to do that, have them have to find a way to trap an opponent with minimal resources, or have to escape a trap while being in endless combat until problem is solved, or they have to play a thinking game (like chess, checkers, etc.) against the court wizard who has never lost but evaluates the party on how well they played. There are a number of ways to test them in this way other than a battle royale that are more suitable for the situation. Without knowing their levels, I'm going to say that a fighter would be able to overpower a spell caster rather quickly without having to do much strategizing. Well I hope this woks out for you and that I was of some help.
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
I'd think the characters would simply refuse to fight one another.
Also the Duke's motivation seems weak... Why NOT send anybody out to rescue your daughter? Why the trials? Take what you can get, Duke!
What if there's some aspect of the artifact (or its protections) that could destroy the party, and he's trying to guard against it? Like it can turn you against your friends, or make them appear to be something else? He doesn't tell them this part of the legend, but to test them, each player is put in a "different" arena, fighting X other monsters, but in reality they're all in the same ring, fighting one another. They can only win by figuring it out before they murder each other.
That would be very hard to DM, so maybe it's not feasible. Anyway, pitting them against each other seems like a big problem.
PvP is probably a bad idea. Not every character is designed to fight solo. What I would recommend if you really want that kind of fight is to have the court wizard summon them to the "game room" in which they are placed on a black and white checkered grid (8x8). Each character is asked to choose a starting square in the first two rows. After they are settled, the lights dim and when they come back up, directly across from them is a clone of themselves. FIGHT! The squares can change color or restrict movement (have the enemy move in a way similar to chess pieces but for no reason - just to throw the party off) or have hidden traps.
They are being recruited as a team so teamwork should be stressed. PvP will only make your Life Domain Cleric really really sad.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
oh i hadn't thought of that! that sounds really cool! maybe the monsters are like, puppets or mannequins of some kind animated with magic, or at least that's how they appear? so when one player attacks the "mannequin" corresponding to a party member, the party member takes the damage? though maybe there's a delay, because my players are pretty smart and would probably figure it out pretty quick if attacking the puppet with the staff means the party monk gets hurt. and maybe i could ask for them to roll for perception before the attack hits to see if they can see through it?
so okay in that case, maybe the spell they're using restricts their communication as well, so when one player figures it out i could take them aside and tell them individually, so they would have to figure out a way to communicate with their fellow players in-character. and maybe once they all figure it out, i can see that leading into a boss battle really nicely.
also you pretty much nailed why the duke's going through all this stuff to find Capable Adventurers-- the crown itself isn't necessarily dangerous, but according to legend, it has extremely powerful magical guardians that manifest as magic items that mess with party communication, mainly, though all of them have some other fun tricks. the duke's already lost several teams to that kind of thing and would like to minimize that risk before hiring another group of adventurers.
i should also mention-- all of the combat in this first dungeon will ultimately be non-lethal, even if a character gets their hp dropped to zero, because requiring death saves in the very first dungeon seems like kind of a downer and not the best way to set the tone for the rest of the campaign. i'm still ironing out the specifics, of course.
orcs aren't evil they're hot and misunderstood
My advice, if you want to run a "character focused" game is to definitely avoid "writing a campaign". Sure, you can set up the initial encounters and have a rough sketch of some scenes you can throw in when needed but running a character focused game means that you have to be ready to let the story flow from the actions of the characters, not from the pre-written script you have in mind.
I also think that forcing the players to PvP each other won't lead to them undertaking a rescue mission for the very person who put them into that situation. Most likely, it will make the players angry at the GM. Minimally, it will make your quest-giver into the big-bad-evil guy in the player's minds.
A couple of points to consider:
Other possibilities are:
Both of these are pretty classic adventure patterns - which means your Players will know how to play them out. #1 allows your Party to bond, #2 allows your Party to test out their abilities and to show off.
You could even do both - do #2, the winners get equipped as a team and sent out on a test quest - and then, if successful, move on up to the real adventure.
cDC hit the nail on the head. Do not "write a campaign", because the Players will not stick to your script. All you will do is make yourself frustrated as the Players ignore the storyline you put a lot of effort crafting.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.