I've been DMing a long time. 20+ years. I've ran into builds, class/feature combos and other mechanics where players can make very powerful characters that are hard to challenge in combat encounters. I've always managed to get around it, make combat relevant and fun for all involved and important in the narrative.
Until now.
And I admit defeat. I've looked high and wide for help dealing with Bear Totem barbarians but I've reached a point where nothing seems to work and combat has no become meaningless. I'm sure there will be a lot of eye rolling and do-you-know-how-to-DM-bro, are you stupid etc etc etc thoughts and maybe a comment or two along those lines. But I could use some help before I just quit the hobby. First some context.
I play with friends who more or less treat the game like a video game. Which is not my preferred way but I've just learned that's where everyone has the most fun so that's what we do. It is not that there is no roleplay. There is, I do my best to encourage it and everyone plays along and even though sometimes I can tell its a stretch, in the end they all enjoy it. But as not really roleplayers I run into a problem I think most DMs do. In that they are very happy to roleplay when it expands or empowers characters but when it comes to restrictions and consequences, not so much. A pretty natural thing but I've seen a lot of "role play out of the situation" type responses to barbarians and that won't work. Secondly the characters are now level 12. At earlier levels it wasn't such a problem, sure the barbarian was tough but there were ways to present combat in a way that made them think and be challenged without breaking the rules. As they have gained more power and magic items, things have become tougher. Sure, I could deny the magic items but the players enjoy that aspect of the game (remember, video game treatment here). And they are smart, 5 of 6 of the regular players have PhDs in the hard sciences and know the rules. So when I start to bend things I'm immediately called out. My response is I'm the DM so shut up. They most often take it with grace, I believe they like the surprises as much as I do.
Now though, it seems I have to downright break the damn game. Staying within the rules (with some bending) encounters have to be tuned so difficult to try and have the barbarian break a sweat that the other players are in constant peril. Maybe only one roll off from death every fight. Meanwhile the barbarian just dusts off his shoulders and moves on. Worse is that now with some feats under his belt, Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master his damage output is insane. Using the 'power strike' option of GWM with reckless attack gives him a plus 19 on damage. So even his little shaft hit with PM feat does 20+ damage generating 60-80 hps of damage a round. It doesn't matter that enemies hit him constantly, with the high hit points and resistance he barely gets scratched.
A lot of responses I've read seem to leave out the fact the barbarian has friends. In particular the Oath of Devotion Paladin making him immune to fear and charm, bonuses to saves and so on. Sure within 10ft but it still makes the situation difficult. And the Paladin has a lot of abilities to counter effects (beacon of hope) and the party Bard who counterspells. Not that all these fail-safes are perfect and sometimes things don't work out for the barbarian but it is exceedingly rare. And the group came across a ring of free action and gave it to the barbarian. No restraint, no paralysis. This guy can wade into a mass of enemies without worry, I might as well just remove combat from the game entirely and handle it with a simple, "You win!"
Now I like combat to have narrative function. If this were a rare event, something where the barbarian was pushing the boundaries with hint of danger then I think it would be awesome! The barbarian is tough! But how tough? As the rest of the group scrambles to save the townsfolk the barbarian leaps into the crowd of demons! Will he survive? If he does, it will be a tale of LEGEND!
Uh no, he does this 5 times a day with a yawn. No, I am not trying to kill PCs every fight, just the opposite. But without any sense of danger the encounters are simple exercises in game mechanics. So the sessions are becoming boring for me and really sapping my will to continue.
If you you've read this far, thank you. Here are some things I've tried. Any other ideas, input or if you have a similar situation and found a good way to handle it, I'd much appreciate it.
Limited Rages - Yup. But the group is "genre smart" and knows when things are going to go down and like intelligent people: prepare. Yes, I've done some trickery but that gets old fast and like many of these options makes the 'trick' no longer a trick but just another thing they expect.
Psychic Damage - The old go to. Sure it can be effective but bringing it in every fight is starting to get ludicrous. Again, it would be nice to narratively not have to make excuses for every fight to have this. It is no longer "kryptonite" that the group fears but just a regular occurrence, not special and has lost all meaning.
Ranged Enemies - Not very effective, they buy a little time but barbarians can move fast and again he has friends. Trying interesting obstacles, setups and ambushes generally only delay the inevitable a couple of rounds rather than bring real threat.
Flying Enemies - Better, but again like the above he has friends (like the monk running up walls) and always having things flying around is making things rote.
"Smart" Enemies - Yeah, I realize that smart bad guys will do everything in their power to stay away or try to counter. At lower levels, them breaking out the psychic damage things and other tricks would work and feel like those NPCs were dangerous. But the group has so many ways to control and close distance and counter effects that every enemy is a "smart" enemy and all it does is buy them another 6 seconds.
Some spells, with a note on the weaknesses when paired up with the Paladin (lvl / spell name / save / potential immunities)
1 / Charm Person / wis / charm 1 / Cause Fear / wis / fear 2 / Calm Emotions / cha / charm 3 / Slow / wis 3 / Fear / wis / fear 5 / Synaptic Static / int 6 / Eyebite / wis 3 / Enemies Abound / int 2 / Phantasmal Force / int 2 / Crown of Madness / wis / charm 9 / Physic Scream / int 6 / Mental Prison / int / charm restrain 5 / Dominate Person / wis / charm
Raise the CR of the baddies. Its more likely him having a good cast around him that he is able to do those things. Start giving your enemies legendary actions. Raise their AC so that -5 actually matters.
Just focusing on the barb Isn't going to fix the problem. Whats the rest of the group look like?
The big thing that jumped out to me because I've had it both in the past and in the present: playing with friends that treat it like a video game, and 12th level. Those two together have always given me headaches. I think this is hurting your fun more than the specific class issues. Most classes in 5e, when paired with a knowledgeable player, and especially a rounded group are tough to challenge past 12th level. Most modules stop around that level for a reason, and so do a lot of homebrew campaigns for most of the reasons you are saying. I've played and run a group that got to the high teens, but we all loved to RP and explore, with combat secondary. Kind of the reverse of a low level group, where social is the "easy" part and combat is the "difficult" part.
Long story short... it's a tough situation, and even finding some new things to throw at the barbarian will only delay the inevitable, until new spells or items counter them. I've been in your shoes (with different class mixes), so understand the frustration. The most recent thing I did with a campaign I am still running (14th lvl now) is throw them into Dungeon of the Mad Mage. There are plenty of parts that challenge them, especially if I play up random encounters and really stack up the combat over a 24 hour period. We all know it's basically just an xp/combat grind, but we're still having fun with it. Only other option is to end it and start a new campaign at low levels.
1) cease to give meaningful combat experiences. This doesn't mean that you have to stop combat, but you don't need to bash your head against a wall trying to give challenging but winnable combat. 2) metagame a challenge tailor made for all of their weaknesses. Have a large group that the barbarian will charge into. As he passes, spellcasters can create an anti magic zone and/or a zone of silence accompanied by either a triggered trap or additional spells to create difficult terrain for the rest of the party. Have flyers to keep the monk busy, have something grapple the paladin, and anything else you need to prevent the hard from focusing on helping the barbarian. As long as the barbarian is out of range of the paladin, have something try to charm him and do whatever to give him advantage (or the barbarian disadvantage) on the attack/saving roll. Once he's charmed suggest that he give up the ring. Pummel the party into submission and have them captured. Continue on afterwards as you see fit. 3) disintegrate the barbarian (perhaps because two beholder are fighting each other and the barb is simply collateral damage or some god is angered by the arrogance of the party or some other reason. 4) Perhaps the barb angers a god and is cursed with permanent levels of exhaustion. 5) Perhaps the ring is cursed and he starts aging extremely quickly and he can only rid himself of it by lopping off the hand, which wilts. The other players then hear a voice that says, "who wants to be next?" 6) Endless combat while the group is prevented from retreat. Perhaps by Modrons. 7) Ask one of the other players to take over being DM. 8) End the campaign and start over. Prevent the options that have caused you to not be able to enjoy the game.
I'd also have a chat with them and let them know how you are feeling and why you are feeling it. Let them know that you understand that they enjoy the style that they are currently playing. Have the group brainstorm about ways that you could mesh the two preferred styles into something that could allow for the enjoyment of all.
I'll still super-new; feel free to ignore. I don't know the ins and outs of the class.
Can you split the party up? Like two (or three) things need to happen simultaneously, in different areas, and THEN drop combat on him when he's alone? Or on them when they're alone?
Or put him in a sort of Trolley Problem, forced to choose who in his party is safe and who is endangered.
How you get there is a story question, not a rules question. Some extra planar baddie yanks him right into out of the material plane. Why? Because [story story story.]
It sounds like you have a Justice League-style issue, and the barbarian is Superman. How do the comics and cartoons disable the Man of Steel?
The players will probably clue in to what you're doing if every session there's an extra planar Lex Luthor or kryptonite separating the barbarian from the party, but maybe it's a prolonged state, lasting a few sessions, then you get back to their murder hobo roots for a while, then Lex reappears....
*shrugs* just some ideas. Keep us posted. I'm very curious how you handle it, even if it'll be six months before my group is struggling with this.
Rages only last 1 minute so if you are giving them 5 one minute battles a day then he is going to very tough but intelligent opponents will know this and adjust their tactics. How about a D&D version of Rope-a-Dope. Opponents attack, he starts to rage and then they run away.
Like Wysperra mentioned, go after his family, clan, friends, etc. and give him dilemmas he can’t solve with a rage.
An enemy with the spell Dream. Night after night, tormenting him in his dreams. Unless he’s an elf barbarian.
Find plots from Incredible Hulk comics. How do the villains attempt to defeat the Hulk?
Just focusing on the barb Isn't going to fix the problem. Whats the rest of the group look like?
True. The group runs 4 to 6 players with four serving as the anchors and the other two drifting in and out as they have time. Paladin, Bard, Monk, Barbarian are the core with a Rogue and Cleric/Fighter occasionally playing. As I mentioned, raising the CR creates an imbalance where most of the other players are too vulnerable but I have sort of adjusted the strength level of the enemies and do mess with stats to make monsters competitive.
And thanks everyone for the good advice.
I will try and use some of these ideas and see what happens. And the role-play stuff is hard because, he's the last surviving member of his clan! The lone warrior who walked out of the wilderness! Etc etc. What I am planning on doing is having him return to the ruins of his dwarf hold and have him find out that they did not all die in an orc attack, but killed by him in a rage, Logan style (the comic book not the movie). Something with the forge the clan was using to make weapons being inhabited by something evil that was making them all mad.
Won't solve my problem, but I think it will add some much needed development to the character. I like some of the role play and curse ideas however I'd rather not take away his agency (losing a hand etc) just because he's playing the game he wants to.
I'll try to be a little more smart with planning out series of encounters to limit his Rage, or at least actually have him think about if he should or should not be doing so. Sending things to steal items and even the simple use of nets is something I honestly hadn't thought of.
You could also have most of the enemies just target the Barbarian, you'd have to figure out a story reason, but it could be interesting if the Barb finally got knocked unconscious.
You could also do the classic solution to a overpowered mechanic, use the mechanic against them. Throw in an enemy Totem Barbarian, and if you wanted, you could have the Enemy Barb be competitive and specifically target the PC Barb bringing it back to my first suggestion.
Another option is if they all fight clones of themselves. This would be difficult to figure out story wise, but you just do they get spirited away by a psuedo deity, who creates a copy of each party member.
And if you were on board with them being spirited away, they could end up somewhere without their weapons, then they would have to find there stuff, not get caught, and mostly rely on kind rather than raw strength, kind of like the Forsaken Fortress in Wind Waker.
One awesome villain I’ve encountered in a similar scenario was a homebrewed effect. The villain forced a very difficult CHA save and if you failed your life was linked to his for 24 hours. If he was hurt, those linked were twice as much Psychic ignoring any Resistances or immunities, and he would take no damage. Ended up killing an NPC follower by linking up and jumping off a cliff. Whenever I bring it up people always say it’s a terrible concept since it takes away player agency but I thought it was an amazing role play experience that completely threw us off our normal strategies, having to use brains over our usual brawn.
Bear Totem Barbarians look like they would be pretty weak against Spell Saves with conditions. Try having some more of those. Some more of Sleep, Ray of Enfeeblement, Polymorph, Irresistible Dance, Maze, Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, or Confusion. You could also turn the Barbarian's Strength against the Party with something like Crown of Madness. Heck, Heat Metal might work well against the Barbarian as well.
Depending on your interpretation, you could have a spell caster use Calm Emotions on him to eliminate and prevent him from going into a rage. If you interpret Calm Emotions to not actually end rage... It does make the Barbarian indifferent towards selected creatures... meaning he won't attack them... And so long as the enemies don't attack him his rage will die off unless he starts self mutilating himself to keep the rage going.
Including what SladeTracey said, Banishment, Bestow Curse, Dominate Person, Sanctuary would also work to varying degrees of success. Also, keep in mind things like Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, or Confusion also has the potential to end his rage, especially if he is unable to attack and the enemies switch their attention to the others.
Another trick that I tend to enjoy is putting them up against themselves, especially if they are a well optimized party. Print out their character sheets, change their names and just use themselves against themselves.
My first answer is: Quit Giving Yourself A Handicap
Most DMs want to tell some epic saga of glory for our players to enjoy and participate in. As you have noticed with your group, not all players want to listen to the story. If your players want to fight their way from point A to point B with the story being in the background, then that's the style of game you have to run. If you insist on being a story telling DM with a table full of gamist players, you will not have the experience you want as DM. If they are going to be a gamist group, be a gamist DM. Toss in the story elements when it's necessary to move the plot forward, just like a game. If you aren't willing to make that compromise, then you'll be at a handicap the entire game and it may be better to wrap up the game and find a group that fits your style.
Not all fights are fair, and that's good.
The rest of your party doesn't share the same type of survival tools as the Barbarian which results in a glaring issue when it comes to combat. So they have compensated by letting the Barbarian do the heavy lifting and they assist, even if they do wade into the fray, they know the Barbarian is their ace. It's a gamist strategy, it's an effective strategy, and it's very appealing since it feels like an "I win" button. However this also puts them in a bad spot since they're reliant on this, and that is where the party will fall if it's taken advantage of. It may seem unfair to use the Barbarian's ability to tank everything against the party, but not every enemy is that narrow minded.
Have the enemies target the weaker party members. Take them out one by one, disable them, and otherwise remove them from the fray. At this point in time, at level 12, they are becoming household names as heroes. This means the bad guys are going to recognize them, know about them, and they should have information about the party and what they're capable of. This means their strategies will change to fit the scenarios and they will exploit weaknesses. Spells, weapons, terrain, and locations of battles will be chosen, at least by the intelligent enemies, to reduce the risk of defeat based on what they know about the party. Bottle necks, pits, guerrilla tactics, height advantage, traps, and more can be used to great effect in reducing the party's strength in combat, not just the creature's stat blocks. Even a single, well placed, Wall of Force can completely negate the Barbarian in combat while he's forced to watch the rest of the party struggle. Fair, no, effective, yes, and it is definitely something an evil villain would do if they had knowledge of their opponents.
I'm the DM so shut up...
This right here is also your "I win" button and can be used to great effect. Stat blocks, enemy abilities, attacks, damages, every little detail in the books is at the whim of you, the DM. You have the ability to create monsters that are a challenge to the party because they're not in the books. You want to mess with them and give them a Troll/Ochre Ooze hybrid that has acid immunity and can split when hit by slashing or lightning damage, go for it. You want to create a weapon for the enemy that pacifies aggressive creatures, make it happen. You have the freedom to create anything an everything, and that is where you have the ability to make the game challenging again. Get out of the books and get into the minds of your players, what can you craft that will really put them at the edge of their seats. Trope and rote ideas, concepts, tricks, and tactics may feel old hat to you, but they are great foundations for crafting the unique.
High AC opponents can avoid a lot of Barbarians raw damage, while other classes with higher hit chances or area spells (that go on save, rather than making a roll to hit) would be able to do consistent damage. You could try beefing up Bandit Captains or Knights, since they have Parry (+2 AC on reaction against a particular attack against them).
You could also use status effects or enviornmental hazards that would limit the Barbarian (or possibly the rest of the party). Examples of this could be the floor being covered in water, traps separating the party, etc.
If the Barbarian doesnt have a magical weapon, you could also throw enemies who have resistance or immunity to non-magical attacks.
A: if you are worried about killing other party members, make the BBEG want to capture them, focus the support down before the barbarian.
B: focus on separating the paladin from the barbarian, sounds like you could restrain/immobilize him then force the barbarian to deal with ranged opponents which moves him out of the aura
C: remember the barbarian isn't the whole problem, disable the support and he becomes a bag of hp with a stick
D: if you want to bring in planar opponents, make it a part of the story, piss off some Gith or something and move the adventure off the material plane.
Do your combats usually take place in small quarters? Have combat out in the open against an fighter or ranger with archery fighting style, a longbow and the sharpshooter feat. Being able to attack at 600 ft without disadvantage could give you a number of turns before the barbarian can get in range to attack.
I speak from experience on this - I have a large party (9) and have an Arcane Archer and a Gloom Stalker both archery builds & sharpshooter. Most of our combats so far have taken place outside in the open country side and these two can tear something up before it even gets in range to attack.
Copy his stat block, make him fight someone his equal in every way, you want to keep the others out of the way? Might I suggest Forcecage? Or you could give them a deck of many things and watch them kill/destroy themselves.
GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links. https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole @BonusRole
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've been DMing a long time. 20+ years. I've ran into builds, class/feature combos and other mechanics where players can make very powerful characters that are hard to challenge in combat encounters. I've always managed to get around it, make combat relevant and fun for all involved and important in the narrative.
Until now.
And I admit defeat. I've looked high and wide for help dealing with Bear Totem barbarians but I've reached a point where nothing seems to work and combat has no become meaningless. I'm sure there will be a lot of eye rolling and do-you-know-how-to-DM-bro, are you stupid etc etc etc thoughts and maybe a comment or two along those lines. But I could use some help before I just quit the hobby. First some context.
I play with friends who more or less treat the game like a video game. Which is not my preferred way but I've just learned that's where everyone has the most fun so that's what we do. It is not that there is no roleplay. There is, I do my best to encourage it and everyone plays along and even though sometimes I can tell its a stretch, in the end they all enjoy it. But as not really roleplayers I run into a problem I think most DMs do. In that they are very happy to roleplay when it expands or empowers characters but when it comes to restrictions and consequences, not so much. A pretty natural thing but I've seen a lot of "role play out of the situation" type responses to barbarians and that won't work. Secondly the characters are now level 12. At earlier levels it wasn't such a problem, sure the barbarian was tough but there were ways to present combat in a way that made them think and be challenged without breaking the rules. As they have gained more power and magic items, things have become tougher. Sure, I could deny the magic items but the players enjoy that aspect of the game (remember, video game treatment here). And they are smart, 5 of 6 of the regular players have PhDs in the hard sciences and know the rules. So when I start to bend things I'm immediately called out. My response is I'm the DM so shut up. They most often take it with grace, I believe they like the surprises as much as I do.
Now though, it seems I have to downright break the damn game. Staying within the rules (with some bending) encounters have to be tuned so difficult to try and have the barbarian break a sweat that the other players are in constant peril. Maybe only one roll off from death every fight. Meanwhile the barbarian just dusts off his shoulders and moves on. Worse is that now with some feats under his belt, Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master his damage output is insane. Using the 'power strike' option of GWM with reckless attack gives him a plus 19 on damage. So even his little shaft hit with PM feat does 20+ damage generating 60-80 hps of damage a round. It doesn't matter that enemies hit him constantly, with the high hit points and resistance he barely gets scratched.
A lot of responses I've read seem to leave out the fact the barbarian has friends. In particular the Oath of Devotion Paladin making him immune to fear and charm, bonuses to saves and so on. Sure within 10ft but it still makes the situation difficult. And the Paladin has a lot of abilities to counter effects (beacon of hope) and the party Bard who counterspells. Not that all these fail-safes are perfect and sometimes things don't work out for the barbarian but it is exceedingly rare. And the group came across a ring of free action and gave it to the barbarian. No restraint, no paralysis. This guy can wade into a mass of enemies without worry, I might as well just remove combat from the game entirely and handle it with a simple, "You win!"
Now I like combat to have narrative function. If this were a rare event, something where the barbarian was pushing the boundaries with hint of danger then I think it would be awesome! The barbarian is tough! But how tough? As the rest of the group scrambles to save the townsfolk the barbarian leaps into the crowd of demons! Will he survive? If he does, it will be a tale of LEGEND!
Uh no, he does this 5 times a day with a yawn. No, I am not trying to kill PCs every fight, just the opposite. But without any sense of danger the encounters are simple exercises in game mechanics. So the sessions are becoming boring for me and really sapping my will to continue.
If you you've read this far, thank you. Here are some things I've tried. Any other ideas, input or if you have a similar situation and found a good way to handle it, I'd much appreciate it.
Limited Rages - Yup. But the group is "genre smart" and knows when things are going to go down and like intelligent people: prepare. Yes, I've done some trickery but that gets old fast and like many of these options makes the 'trick' no longer a trick but just another thing they expect.
Psychic Damage - The old go to. Sure it can be effective but bringing it in every fight is starting to get ludicrous. Again, it would be nice to narratively not have to make excuses for every fight to have this. It is no longer "kryptonite" that the group fears but just a regular occurrence, not special and has lost all meaning.
Ranged Enemies - Not very effective, they buy a little time but barbarians can move fast and again he has friends. Trying interesting obstacles, setups and ambushes generally only delay the inevitable a couple of rounds rather than bring real threat.
Flying Enemies - Better, but again like the above he has friends (like the monk running up walls) and always having things flying around is making things rote.
"Smart" Enemies - Yeah, I realize that smart bad guys will do everything in their power to stay away or try to counter. At lower levels, them breaking out the psychic damage things and other tricks would work and feel like those NPCs were dangerous. But the group has so many ways to control and close distance and counter effects that every enemy is a "smart" enemy and all it does is buy them another 6 seconds.
Some spells, with a note on the weaknesses when paired up with the Paladin (lvl / spell name / save / potential immunities)
1 / Charm Person / wis / charm
1 / Cause Fear / wis / fear
2 / Calm Emotions / cha / charm
3 / Slow / wis
3 / Fear / wis / fear
5 / Synaptic Static / int
6 / Eyebite / wis
3 / Enemies Abound / int
2 / Phantasmal Force / int
2 / Crown of Madness / wis / charm
9 / Physic Scream / int
6 / Mental Prison / int / charm restrain
5 / Dominate Person / wis / charm
Raise the CR of the baddies. Its more likely him having a good cast around him that he is able to do those things. Start giving your enemies legendary actions. Raise their AC so that -5 actually matters.
Just focusing on the barb Isn't going to fix the problem. Whats the rest of the group look like?
The big thing that jumped out to me because I've had it both in the past and in the present: playing with friends that treat it like a video game, and 12th level. Those two together have always given me headaches. I think this is hurting your fun more than the specific class issues. Most classes in 5e, when paired with a knowledgeable player, and especially a rounded group are tough to challenge past 12th level. Most modules stop around that level for a reason, and so do a lot of homebrew campaigns for most of the reasons you are saying. I've played and run a group that got to the high teens, but we all loved to RP and explore, with combat secondary. Kind of the reverse of a low level group, where social is the "easy" part and combat is the "difficult" part.
Long story short... it's a tough situation, and even finding some new things to throw at the barbarian will only delay the inevitable, until new spells or items counter them. I've been in your shoes (with different class mixes), so understand the frustration. The most recent thing I did with a campaign I am still running (14th lvl now) is throw them into Dungeon of the Mad Mage. There are plenty of parts that challenge them, especially if I play up random encounters and really stack up the combat over a 24 hour period. We all know it's basically just an xp/combat grind, but we're still having fun with it. Only other option is to end it and start a new campaign at low levels.
1) cease to give meaningful combat experiences. This doesn't mean that you have to stop combat, but you don't need to bash your head against a wall trying to give challenging but winnable combat. 2) metagame a challenge tailor made for all of their weaknesses. Have a large group that the barbarian will charge into. As he passes, spellcasters can create an anti magic zone and/or a zone of silence accompanied by either a triggered trap or additional spells to create difficult terrain for the rest of the party. Have flyers to keep the monk busy, have something grapple the paladin, and anything else you need to prevent the hard from focusing on helping the barbarian. As long as the barbarian is out of range of the paladin, have something try to charm him and do whatever to give him advantage (or the barbarian disadvantage) on the attack/saving roll. Once he's charmed suggest that he give up the ring. Pummel the party into submission and have them captured. Continue on afterwards as you see fit. 3) disintegrate the barbarian (perhaps because two beholder are fighting each other and the barb is simply collateral damage or some god is angered by the arrogance of the party or some other reason. 4) Perhaps the barb angers a god and is cursed with permanent levels of exhaustion. 5) Perhaps the ring is cursed and he starts aging extremely quickly and he can only rid himself of it by lopping off the hand, which wilts. The other players then hear a voice that says, "who wants to be next?" 6) Endless combat while the group is prevented from retreat. Perhaps by Modrons. 7) Ask one of the other players to take over being DM. 8) End the campaign and start over. Prevent the options that have caused you to not be able to enjoy the game.
I'd also have a chat with them and let them know how you are feeling and why you are feeling it. Let them know that you understand that they enjoy the style that they are currently playing. Have the group brainstorm about ways that you could mesh the two preferred styles into something that could allow for the enjoyment of all.
Drop them a hook about a whatever someplace. When they get back to town, it is on fire.
or
"You think you're pretty tough huh? How tough is your daughter?"
or
Have a rogue steal his amulet.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Ring of Free Action "In addition, magic can neither reduce your speed nor cause you to be paralyzed or restrained."
Doesn't mean you can't have a Behir constrict him.
A simple net has the possibility of taking him out of rage.
---
Go Old School. Have Wights and other undead drain levels.
--
Darkness
--
Rot Grubs - be nice, hit the whole party with rot grubs. Don't want anybody to feel left out.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'll still super-new; feel free to ignore. I don't know the ins and outs of the class.
Can you split the party up? Like two (or three) things need to happen simultaneously, in different areas, and THEN drop combat on him when he's alone? Or on them when they're alone?
Or put him in a sort of Trolley Problem, forced to choose who in his party is safe and who is endangered.
How you get there is a story question, not a rules question. Some extra planar baddie yanks him right into out of the material plane. Why? Because [story story story.]
It sounds like you have a Justice League-style issue, and the barbarian is Superman. How do the comics and cartoons disable the Man of Steel?
The players will probably clue in to what you're doing if every session there's an extra planar Lex Luthor or kryptonite separating the barbarian from the party, but maybe it's a prolonged state, lasting a few sessions, then you get back to their murder hobo roots for a while, then Lex reappears....
*shrugs* just some ideas. Keep us posted. I'm very curious how you handle it, even if it'll be six months before my group is struggling with this.
Rages only last 1 minute so if you are giving them 5 one minute battles a day then he is going to very tough but intelligent opponents will know this and adjust their tactics. How about a D&D version of Rope-a-Dope. Opponents attack, he starts to rage and then they run away.
Like Wysperra mentioned, go after his family, clan, friends, etc. and give him dilemmas he can’t solve with a rage.
An enemy with the spell Dream. Night after night, tormenting him in his dreams. Unless he’s an elf barbarian.
Find plots from Incredible Hulk comics. How do the villains attempt to defeat the Hulk?
True. The group runs 4 to 6 players with four serving as the anchors and the other two drifting in and out as they have time. Paladin, Bard, Monk, Barbarian are the core with a Rogue and Cleric/Fighter occasionally playing. As I mentioned, raising the CR creates an imbalance where most of the other players are too vulnerable but I have sort of adjusted the strength level of the enemies and do mess with stats to make monsters competitive.
And thanks everyone for the good advice.
I will try and use some of these ideas and see what happens. And the role-play stuff is hard because, he's the last surviving member of his clan! The lone warrior who walked out of the wilderness! Etc etc. What I am planning on doing is having him return to the ruins of his dwarf hold and have him find out that they did not all die in an orc attack, but killed by him in a rage, Logan style (the comic book not the movie). Something with the forge the clan was using to make weapons being inhabited by something evil that was making them all mad.
Won't solve my problem, but I think it will add some much needed development to the character. I like some of the role play and curse ideas however I'd rather not take away his agency (losing a hand etc) just because he's playing the game he wants to.
I'll try to be a little more smart with planning out series of encounters to limit his Rage, or at least actually have him think about if he should or should not be doing so. Sending things to steal items and even the simple use of nets is something I honestly hadn't thought of.
You could also have most of the enemies just target the Barbarian, you'd have to figure out a story reason, but it could be interesting if the Barb finally got knocked unconscious.
You could also do the classic solution to a overpowered mechanic, use the mechanic against them. Throw in an enemy Totem Barbarian, and if you wanted, you could have the Enemy Barb be competitive and specifically target the PC Barb bringing it back to my first suggestion.
Another option is if they all fight clones of themselves. This would be difficult to figure out story wise, but you just do they get spirited away by a psuedo deity, who creates a copy of each party member.
And if you were on board with them being spirited away, they could end up somewhere without their weapons, then they would have to find there stuff, not get caught, and mostly rely on kind rather than raw strength, kind of like the Forsaken Fortress in Wind Waker.
One awesome villain I’ve encountered in a similar scenario was a homebrewed effect. The villain forced a very difficult CHA save and if you failed your life was linked to his for 24 hours. If he was hurt, those linked were twice as much Psychic ignoring any Resistances or immunities, and he would take no damage. Ended up killing an NPC follower by linking up and jumping off a cliff. Whenever I bring it up people always say it’s a terrible concept since it takes away player agency but I thought it was an amazing role play experience that completely threw us off our normal strategies, having to use brains over our usual brawn.
Bear Totem Barbarians look like they would be pretty weak against Spell Saves with conditions. Try having some more of those. Some more of Sleep, Ray of Enfeeblement, Polymorph, Irresistible Dance, Maze, Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, or Confusion. You could also turn the Barbarian's Strength against the Party with something like Crown of Madness. Heck, Heat Metal might work well against the Barbarian as well.
Depending on your interpretation, you could have a spell caster use Calm Emotions on him to eliminate and prevent him from going into a rage. If you interpret Calm Emotions to not actually end rage... It does make the Barbarian indifferent towards selected creatures... meaning he won't attack them... And so long as the enemies don't attack him his rage will die off unless he starts self mutilating himself to keep the rage going.
Including what SladeTracey said, Banishment, Bestow Curse, Dominate Person, Sanctuary would also work to varying degrees of success. Also, keep in mind things like Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, or Confusion also has the potential to end his rage, especially if he is unable to attack and the enemies switch their attention to the others.
Another trick that I tend to enjoy is putting them up against themselves, especially if they are a well optimized party. Print out their character sheets, change their names and just use themselves against themselves.
My first answer is: Quit Giving Yourself A Handicap
Most DMs want to tell some epic saga of glory for our players to enjoy and participate in. As you have noticed with your group, not all players want to listen to the story. If your players want to fight their way from point A to point B with the story being in the background, then that's the style of game you have to run. If you insist on being a story telling DM with a table full of gamist players, you will not have the experience you want as DM. If they are going to be a gamist group, be a gamist DM. Toss in the story elements when it's necessary to move the plot forward, just like a game. If you aren't willing to make that compromise, then you'll be at a handicap the entire game and it may be better to wrap up the game and find a group that fits your style.
Not all fights are fair, and that's good.
The rest of your party doesn't share the same type of survival tools as the Barbarian which results in a glaring issue when it comes to combat. So they have compensated by letting the Barbarian do the heavy lifting and they assist, even if they do wade into the fray, they know the Barbarian is their ace. It's a gamist strategy, it's an effective strategy, and it's very appealing since it feels like an "I win" button. However this also puts them in a bad spot since they're reliant on this, and that is where the party will fall if it's taken advantage of. It may seem unfair to use the Barbarian's ability to tank everything against the party, but not every enemy is that narrow minded.
Have the enemies target the weaker party members. Take them out one by one, disable them, and otherwise remove them from the fray. At this point in time, at level 12, they are becoming household names as heroes. This means the bad guys are going to recognize them, know about them, and they should have information about the party and what they're capable of. This means their strategies will change to fit the scenarios and they will exploit weaknesses. Spells, weapons, terrain, and locations of battles will be chosen, at least by the intelligent enemies, to reduce the risk of defeat based on what they know about the party. Bottle necks, pits, guerrilla tactics, height advantage, traps, and more can be used to great effect in reducing the party's strength in combat, not just the creature's stat blocks. Even a single, well placed, Wall of Force can completely negate the Barbarian in combat while he's forced to watch the rest of the party struggle. Fair, no, effective, yes, and it is definitely something an evil villain would do if they had knowledge of their opponents.
I'm the DM so shut up...
This right here is also your "I win" button and can be used to great effect. Stat blocks, enemy abilities, attacks, damages, every little detail in the books is at the whim of you, the DM. You have the ability to create monsters that are a challenge to the party because they're not in the books. You want to mess with them and give them a Troll/Ochre Ooze hybrid that has acid immunity and can split when hit by slashing or lightning damage, go for it. You want to create a weapon for the enemy that pacifies aggressive creatures, make it happen. You have the freedom to create anything an everything, and that is where you have the ability to make the game challenging again. Get out of the books and get into the minds of your players, what can you craft that will really put them at the edge of their seats. Trope and rote ideas, concepts, tricks, and tactics may feel old hat to you, but they are great foundations for crafting the unique.
High AC opponents can avoid a lot of Barbarians raw damage, while other classes with higher hit chances or area spells (that go on save, rather than making a roll to hit) would be able to do consistent damage. You could try beefing up Bandit Captains or Knights, since they have Parry (+2 AC on reaction against a particular attack against them).
You could also use status effects or enviornmental hazards that would limit the Barbarian (or possibly the rest of the party). Examples of this could be the floor being covered in water, traps separating the party, etc.
If the Barbarian doesnt have a magical weapon, you could also throw enemies who have resistance or immunity to non-magical attacks.
Blue Slaad
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
A: if you are worried about killing other party members, make the BBEG want to capture them, focus the support down before the barbarian.
B: focus on separating the paladin from the barbarian, sounds like you could restrain/immobilize him then force the barbarian to deal with ranged opponents which moves him out of the aura
C: remember the barbarian isn't the whole problem, disable the support and he becomes a bag of hp with a stick
D: if you want to bring in planar opponents, make it a part of the story, piss off some Gith or something and move the adventure off the material plane.
Do your combats usually take place in small quarters? Have combat out in the open against an fighter or ranger with archery fighting style, a longbow and the sharpshooter feat. Being able to attack at 600 ft without disadvantage could give you a number of turns before the barbarian can get in range to attack.
I speak from experience on this - I have a large party (9) and have an Arcane Archer and a Gloom Stalker both archery builds & sharpshooter. Most of our combats so far have taken place outside in the open country side and these two can tear something up before it even gets in range to attack.
Thank everyone. More good ideas for me to mine.
Copy his stat block, make him fight someone his equal in every way, you want to keep the others out of the way? Might I suggest Forcecage? Or you could give them a deck of many things and watch them kill/destroy themselves.
GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links.
https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole
@BonusRole