I have a troop of all green players. They all have leveled to 4 over 5 nights.
They finished a side quests to clear out a goblin cave with a white dragon wyrmling boss fight, and they did well. The next spot they are going to head is one I'm still working on the boss. I know it will be a high level illusionist, an Deep gnome known as "The Kobold". He is much higher level than the players 10-15, but has a 3 str and con, so his max hp will be 20-30.
This fight is one where the party will fight illusions... And I thought, how about if they fight illusions over each other!
Each party member will be squared up with a ''monster" that is really a different party member. They always tie another party member on init (and players always goes first on ties), and do the same damage (I'll still roll, but just for show).
Once they catch on, they can save to get out, or not attack, do some odd things...
The rest of this dungeon is mostly puzzles. There is a little combat upfront where The Kobold (gnome) has a tribe of orcs thinking he is a god, but it is almost all puzzles after that.
Seems a bit too cerebral for a group of new players. On top of that, running the combats would be a nightmare logistically. I'd suggest instead that you try an encounter where the big boss has access to various spells that would make sense to cause the players to attack each other. Stuff like Confusion, Crown of Madness, Enemies Abound, Hold Person, etc. that technically control player actions but could also be flavored as illusions tricking the players. Basically, give your players agency while also letting them have a bit of dramatic fun wailing on each other as they fail saves.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I definitely think you should play up the illusion angle, if your main adversary is an illusionist - but I agree with Metamongoose about this being a logistical nightmare and a bit much for new-ish Players. Maybe concentrate more on environmental illusions, using illusions to lure them off the main path into danger, using illusory monsters to scare them off, etc.
We DMs have a tendency to want to make puzzles and situations "clever and interesting" - we often learn the hard way not to do that! We have the luxury of perfect knowledge behind the screen, and situations look very very different to us than to the Players.
If your Players are getting bored and/or are effortlessly blowing through the situations you are setting up, then look at upping the complexity a little bit - and if they're getting befuddled a lot, drop the complexity a good chunk. You'll zero in on that "sweet spot" where they are challenged, but not bamboozled all the time.
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I think it's a solid idea. It's unusual, but as long as you design it well, it could be a very memorable encounter for your players.
I also second the other suggestions of adding environmental illusions and having your boss cast spells that make the players fight each other. What I would suggest is starting with environmental illusions to prime your players to expect trickery, then lead into the encounter with the illusory doubles (which they'll now have a better chance at figuring out), and then ending with the boss encounter.
Here's one way you might present the encounter with the illusory doubles.
Have the players pass by a reflective surface that twists their images in weird ways. Make it more subtle than a mirror; a pool of water or shiny stone walls could work. Perhaps hint subtly at their reflections being captured in some way.
A little while after, have them encounter these "monsters" in a different area. Don't make them look like the players exactly, but add some telltale signs to each one that suggest which PC the illusory monster represents. The PCs should be able to notice these clues with an ability check.
Roll initiative for the monsters normally (so that they're randomized). On their turn, the monster does the same thing as the PC it represents (though it might be disguised by its monstrous features and movements). When it attacks, it targets the PC(s) that match the monster(s) the monster's matching PC attacked.
When the monster attacks, have it roll normally. The damage is trickier. PCs aren't designed to fight each other, so keep that in mind; you might need to halve the monster's damage on the same attack, and you might also want to roll the damage rather than mirroring it exactly. And I'd suggest reflavoring it as psychic or necrotic damage, to help with the ruse.
I'd also have the monsters have resistance to damage dealt by PCs other than the PC they represent. To that PC, they have vulnerability.
Once the PCs figure this out, they should be able to easily prevail in the encounter by attacking their own illusory doubles.
I don't think this is really that logistically difficult. All you have to do is make a note of what a character does on their turn, and then the next time the matching monster goes, have them take very similar actions. This is enough to sell the idea that they're illusory doubles. Having the monsters roll to hit rather than hitting automatically helps mitigate some of the potential difficulty for the PCs.
Do it. Just make sure you have really gone over the character sheets and reference anything you might need to look up. Like spells for example. It would take some time to prep but if you put the time in it you should be fine. Another option is to just have the players play not a copy of themselves but of another players character. And to keep yourself active in the game toss some kind of rolling change that goes on. Or toss in some monster that will fight the players and the clones making them work together for a while.
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I have a troop of all green players. They all have leveled to 4 over 5 nights.
They finished a side quests to clear out a goblin cave with a white dragon wyrmling boss fight, and they did well. The next spot they are going to head is one I'm still working on the boss. I know it will be a high level illusionist, an Deep gnome known as "The Kobold". He is much higher level than the players 10-15, but has a 3 str and con, so his max hp will be 20-30.
This fight is one where the party will fight illusions... And I thought, how about if they fight illusions over each other!
Each party member will be squared up with a ''monster" that is really a different party member. They always tie another party member on init (and players always goes first on ties), and do the same damage (I'll still roll, but just for show).
Once they catch on, they can save to get out, or not attack, do some odd things...
The rest of this dungeon is mostly puzzles. There is a little combat upfront where The Kobold (gnome) has a tribe of orcs thinking he is a god, but it is almost all puzzles after that.
Thoughts?
Seems a bit too cerebral for a group of new players. On top of that, running the combats would be a nightmare logistically. I'd suggest instead that you try an encounter where the big boss has access to various spells that would make sense to cause the players to attack each other. Stuff like Confusion, Crown of Madness, Enemies Abound, Hold Person, etc. that technically control player actions but could also be flavored as illusions tricking the players. Basically, give your players agency while also letting them have a bit of dramatic fun wailing on each other as they fail saves.
I definitely think you should play up the illusion angle, if your main adversary is an illusionist - but I agree with Metamongoose about this being a logistical nightmare and a bit much for new-ish Players. Maybe concentrate more on environmental illusions, using illusions to lure them off the main path into danger, using illusory monsters to scare them off, etc.
We DMs have a tendency to want to make puzzles and situations "clever and interesting" - we often learn the hard way not to do that! We have the luxury of perfect knowledge behind the screen, and situations look very very different to us than to the Players.
If your Players are getting bored and/or are effortlessly blowing through the situations you are setting up, then look at upping the complexity a little bit - and if they're getting befuddled a lot, drop the complexity a good chunk. You'll zero in on that "sweet spot" where they are challenged, but not bamboozled all the time.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I think it's a solid idea. It's unusual, but as long as you design it well, it could be a very memorable encounter for your players.
I also second the other suggestions of adding environmental illusions and having your boss cast spells that make the players fight each other. What I would suggest is starting with environmental illusions to prime your players to expect trickery, then lead into the encounter with the illusory doubles (which they'll now have a better chance at figuring out), and then ending with the boss encounter.
Here's one way you might present the encounter with the illusory doubles.
I don't think this is really that logistically difficult. All you have to do is make a note of what a character does on their turn, and then the next time the matching monster goes, have them take very similar actions. This is enough to sell the idea that they're illusory doubles. Having the monsters roll to hit rather than hitting automatically helps mitigate some of the potential difficulty for the PCs.
Lots of great advice. Thank you all!
Do it. Just make sure you have really gone over the character sheets and reference anything you might need to look up. Like spells for example. It would take some time to prep but if you put the time in it you should be fine. Another option is to just have the players play not a copy of themselves but of another players character. And to keep yourself active in the game toss some kind of rolling change that goes on. Or toss in some monster that will fight the players and the clones making them work together for a while.