You'd give the player an active roll to see if they just happen to notice anything when they aren't trying, and a passive role when they are specifically searching? That seems like the opposite way to play it.
I mean, technically, PHB wants Passive 'checks' to not even involve die rolling. So if either of us use dice for a 'passive' check (I often but not always do), we're off-RAW there already :) But the description of Passive Perception in the PHB reads "When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching." So not actively searching, to me, is the calling card of a Passive check. Actively searching involves a normal skill roll.
A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
I use passive checks 1) when the player would have to make multiple rolls, such as when searching an area 2) when I don't want the player to know they're being checked against, such as when a creature is hiding from them 3) during combat if someone takes the hide action
I'm all for not letting players know when I'm checking. In the past I've done all perception-type rolls behind my screen, active or passive in nature. I've done that for Deception-type rolls as well, and there's some good results from doing it that way.
But 'passive' vs 'active' to me is not the same distinction as whether they should know about the roll or not. Again, the PHB at least clearly indicates that 'Passive Perception' is tied to 'not actively searching'. That's different from whether you want them to know about whether there's a check being made. I mean, if during combat, an enemy takes the Hide action, the player is going to know. At the very least, when they say "I attack the orc", and you say "What orc?" or "You can't see the orc anymore". Most of the time in my experience, a DM will even just say "Okay, for its action, it Hides!" But either way, if the action is a Hide action taken during combat, you're going to wind up with a player who knows there is someone hidden. If it's someone Hiding outside of combat, or someone who was hiding before combat started and is still hiding, now you might want to make a hidden roll to see if the player notices.
But hidden roll =/= passive check to me. A normal skill roll can be rolled by the DM and the result kept hidden, if the DM wants to play it that way. That's different from a check to determine if someone notices something "even if they aren't searching", which is the text under 'Passive Perception'.
A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
I use passive checks 1) when the player would have to make multiple rolls, such as when searching an area 2) when I don't want the player to know they're being checked against, such as when a creature is hiding from them 3) during combat if someone takes the hide action
I'm all for not letting players know when I'm checking. In the past I've done all perception-type rolls behind my screen, active or passive in nature. I've done that for Deception-type rolls as well, and there's some good results from doing it that way.
But 'passive' vs 'active' to me is not the same distinction as whether they should know about the roll or not. Again, the PHB at least clearly indicates that 'Passive Perception' is tied to 'not actively searching'. That's different from whether you want them to know about whether there's a check being made.
The text about passive perception being tied to not actively searching is in the section about stealth and is specifically tied to a creature hiding. The more general text about when to use passive checks is what I quoted earlier.
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I'm all for not letting players know when I'm checking. In the past I've done all perception-type rolls behind my screen, active or passive in nature. I've done that for Deception-type rolls as well, and there's some good results from doing it that way.
But 'passive' vs 'active' to me is not the same distinction as whether they should know about the roll or not. Again, the PHB at least clearly indicates that 'Passive Perception' is tied to 'not actively searching'. That's different from whether you want them to know about whether there's a check being made. I mean, if during combat, an enemy takes the Hide action, the player is going to know. At the very least, when they say "I attack the orc", and you say "What orc?" or "You can't see the orc anymore". Most of the time in my experience, a DM will even just say "Okay, for its action, it Hides!" But either way, if the action is a Hide action taken during combat, you're going to wind up with a player who knows there is someone hidden. If it's someone Hiding outside of combat, or someone who was hiding before combat started and is still hiding, now you might want to make a hidden roll to see if the player notices.
But hidden roll =/= passive check to me. A normal skill roll can be rolled by the DM and the result kept hidden, if the DM wants to play it that way. That's different from a check to determine if someone notices something "even if they aren't searching", which is the text under 'Passive Perception'.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
The text about passive perception being tied to not actively searching is in the section about stealth and is specifically tied to a creature hiding. The more general text about when to use passive checks is what I quoted earlier.