I have a player who's barbarian would like to go for a lycanthrope background and play as a werewolf. He's mooted the idea that he's from the GreyWolf Uthgardt tribe. I've had to have a quick scrabble for what information I can find on PC lycanthrope and the Grey Wolf tribe in particular and I'd appreciate some advice since my alarm bells are ringing. The crux of my thoughts at the moment are :
Lycanthropy can be resisted or embraced. If a player is cursed by lycanthropy and embraces the curse he takes on the alignment of the were-form until the curse is lifted. So, the party end up with a chaotic evil buddy. The party's elf and Paladin are going to have problems with that. So, first question is do members of the Grey Wolf tribe embrace or reject their curse?
Perhaps as natural-born werewolves, they embrace their nature. Most individuals that embrace their lycanthropy become blood-crazed opportunist beasts that prey on the weak. If resisted, the player may be able to keep it in check for most of the time, then go bat shit crazy once a month. Some individuals that embrace the curse can learn to shapeshift at will. Its this what the Grey Wolf tribe is capable of?
A natural - born werewolf can be freed of the curse only with the Wish spell.
Regarding lore: the Grey Wolf tribe seek to prevent the spread of lycanthropy among non tribe members and hunt down any survivors of their attacks. Would this extend to a tribe member that's gone off with an adventuring party? The lore also says that people that leave the tribe are cured of the curse after one year, so could this just be a temporary thing?
So plenty of alarm bells for me. Possible chaos for the party dynamics, possible pitchforks and flaming torches from townsfolk once a month. Not sure whether he's meant to be embracing or rejecting his nature. It looks like a minefield for me. Any ideas or advice?
you can change the rules, stories to the world and other determining factors to how you see it will fit and work.
You could allow him to use it roleplay wise where he simply turns into a werewolf upon entering rage therefore explaining the rage and his characters story.
apply rules and stipulations as you see fit to make it work In the world you built and still allow them to have fun without breaking your world or party balance for the game.
as a dm you are the world builder, narrator and referee so make a call and how you will allow or if you will even allow it at all.
One time when I was DMing, the cleric saw a werebear and though, "I want that". He basically had the party restrain it and forced it to bite down on him, then he eventually caught it. I made it so he randomly transformed whenever I thought it was funny or randomly. He basically got the bite attack, normal damage immunity, and changed his alignment. He was lawful good, so he just became chaotic, so not verrry different. I even let him fully control himself while transformed, because it makes sense, except when a magic item he had took over, but that's a different thing.
generally it is bad mojo to spotlight/favour one player too much.
I would introduce NPCs that represent the elven people and the paladin's order... have them oppose this, or reward the PCs for much sought after werewolf pelts etc.
this should help the party unite or disband, which personally, I would not be adventuring as a typical elf or pally with a would be werewolf.
that being said there is some wicked story in there.
The idea of the wolf tribe embracing being a werewolf seems wrong to me. If that was the case wouldn't the entire tribe sit around biting each other tell everyone was a werewolf.
Sudden shifts in character alignment, especially evil can kill a game way to easy, and I wouldn't allow it.
Just my thought on this, make the alignment a Wisdom or Charisma save when they transform so they may sometimes be in control of the beast and sometimes not. I know there is a partial transformation and a full transformation, so you may have two different save DC's you have to hit. Maybe the half transform is a DC 12 while the full transform is 15 or something. Once transformed, they can use the monster stat block minus the spears and other humanoid related things. It feels powerful at early levels, but it's only CR 3. Eventually the player character will outclass the werewolf and it will become less of a mechanic to the point that it will simply be a badge of honor within the Grey Wolf tribe that they can transform.
I don't think it would be gamebreaking unless the players are just starting out at level 1, but even so levels 1-3 go by quick so the game will catch up fast.
As for the lore, I think the Grey Wolf tribe may bestow the curse to new members to see if they can control the beast, a sort of right of passage. If they can't the tribe will deal with them on their own terms by either removing the curse or removing the creature from existence. However, if they can control the beast, the tribe may reach out for specific quests to be done to allow that player to rise up within the hierarchy of the tribe eventually reaching one of the top tier members by around level 10.
So plenty of alarm bells for me. Possible chaos for the party dynamics, possible pitchforks and flaming torches from townsfolk once a month. Not sure whether he's meant to be embracing or rejecting his nature. It looks like a minefield for me. Any ideas or advice?
Agreed. The player may not consciously realise it but what they are saying is, "I want to play a bad guy."
Seriously, even if you ignore the whole "savage human-eating weremonster" bit, the Grey Wolves are not good people.
As a GM, you can just say, "The Grey Wolves are one of the bad guys in this campaign and I don't want PCs playing villains."
How concerned are you in the lore that werewolves are chaotic evil? If not and the character can remain whichever alignment they are, then depending on party level/composition/etc it’s just a balancing issue.
If the lore is important, do you want to run a game with a chaotic evil PC?
If you’re ok with it, does your player understand what it means to play a chaotic evil character and is that really what they’re looking for?
If so, talk to the rest of the table, do they want to play in a game with a chaotic evil PC?
Chaotic evil PC’s can be fun, but in my experience it is a party wide effort.
As far as Grey Wolves lore goes, any member who didn’t want to share the curse could leave the tribe and would be cured within a year. However in the 5E timeline the Grey Wolves are a “lost tribe” having been destroyed because of their curse and the survivors scattered among the rest of the Uthgardt, which opens up some RP possibilities without having to go full werewolf.
Edit: If you do decide to let them become a werewolf I’d probably prepared to grant your other players extra abilities.
lets set aside RaW for now. Redemption stories are the bedrock, bread and butter, trope of story telling. Whose to say that the player isn't a Grey Wolf barbarian? Maybe his hunting party came upon a group of refugees and fell upon them savagely, only to have him come across a child that looks almost identical to a cherished family member. When faced with the choice of following the tribe and slaying this doppelganger, he realized that he couldn't do it anymore and fled. Now he is traveling trying to atone for past sins, while his tribe hunts him, maybe the very same family member he was reminded of is leading them? Did someone order an antagonistic, yet emotionally motivated NPC?
In the end, if you can find a way to wrap your head around a character, their past, and their motivations without breaking your game, I say go for it.
Here is a link to the blood hunter class on D&D beyond. Just scroll down a bit until you come across the Order of the Lycan section. https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/blood-hunter . You could just use that or modify it to fit your needs.
Lots of thoughts and good advice for me to ponder there, thanks guys. My inclination is to ensure he can't go full-werewolf, and that an alignment change to CE even once month would also be too problematic.
This reminds me of the werebear fluff. They master the curse, while maintaining their alignment, through a life of discipline and contemplation in isolation, and pass it on only to those whom they are sure can maintain the same control.
While the werebear version of lycanthropy might be more suitable to this than the werewolf version, I don’t see why a werewolf couldn’t do this.
Agree with other comments that there is probably more to pick apart here, in terms of determining if the player’s main goal is an excuse to kill innocents, get more powerful from a low level, or have the story spotlight on their tale of woe.
The blood hunter Lycan is a good idea, and I think exploring the “Shifter” race from Eberron could be a good solve as well. If you want your players to be good, you can compromise on Shifter stats and say their character is actively resisting their curse and trying to track down the lycanthropes that originally cursed them.
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I have a player who's barbarian would like to go for a lycanthrope background and play as a werewolf. He's mooted the idea that he's from the GreyWolf Uthgardt tribe. I've had to have a quick scrabble for what information I can find on PC lycanthrope and the Grey Wolf tribe in particular and I'd appreciate some advice since my alarm bells are ringing. The crux of my thoughts at the moment are :
Lycanthropy can be resisted or embraced. If a player is cursed by lycanthropy and embraces the curse he takes on the alignment of the were-form until the curse is lifted. So, the party end up with a chaotic evil buddy. The party's elf and Paladin are going to have problems with that. So, first question is do members of the Grey Wolf tribe embrace or reject their curse?
Perhaps as natural-born werewolves, they embrace their nature. Most individuals that embrace their lycanthropy become blood-crazed opportunist beasts that prey on the weak. If resisted, the player may be able to keep it in check for most of the time, then go bat shit crazy once a month. Some individuals that embrace the curse can learn to shapeshift at will. Its this what the Grey Wolf tribe is capable of?
A natural - born werewolf can be freed of the curse only with the Wish spell.
Regarding lore: the Grey Wolf tribe seek to prevent the spread of lycanthropy among non tribe members and hunt down any survivors of their attacks. Would this extend to a tribe member that's gone off with an adventuring party? The lore also says that people that leave the tribe are cured of the curse after one year, so could this just be a temporary thing?
So plenty of alarm bells for me. Possible chaos for the party dynamics, possible pitchforks and flaming torches from townsfolk once a month. Not sure whether he's meant to be embracing or rejecting his nature. It looks like a minefield for me. Any ideas or advice?
Your game, your rules.
you can change the rules, stories to the world and other determining factors to how you see it will fit and work.
You could allow him to use it roleplay wise where he simply turns into a werewolf upon entering rage therefore explaining the rage and his characters story.
apply rules and stipulations as you see fit to make it work In the world you built and still allow them to have fun without breaking your world or party balance for the game.
as a dm you are the world builder, narrator and referee so make a call and how you will allow or if you will even allow it at all.
Sure, though I wondered if anyone had experience of this quandary, or any advice to those specific questions? Cheers.
One time when I was DMing, the cleric saw a werebear and though, "I want that". He basically had the party restrain it and forced it to bite down on him, then he eventually caught it. I made it so he randomly transformed whenever I thought it was funny or randomly. He basically got the bite attack, normal damage immunity, and changed his alignment. He was lawful good, so he just became chaotic, so not verrry different. I even let him fully control himself while transformed, because it makes sense, except when a magic item he had took over, but that's a different thing.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
generally it is bad mojo to spotlight/favour one player too much.
I would introduce NPCs that represent the elven people and the paladin's order... have them oppose this, or reward the PCs for much sought after werewolf pelts etc.
this should help the party unite or disband, which personally, I would not be adventuring as a typical elf or pally with a would be werewolf.
that being said there is some wicked story in there.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
The idea of the wolf tribe embracing being a werewolf seems wrong to me. If that was the case wouldn't the entire tribe sit around biting each other tell everyone was a werewolf.
Sudden shifts in character alignment, especially evil can kill a game way to easy, and I wouldn't allow it.
Just my thought on this, make the alignment a Wisdom or Charisma save when they transform so they may sometimes be in control of the beast and sometimes not. I know there is a partial transformation and a full transformation, so you may have two different save DC's you have to hit. Maybe the half transform is a DC 12 while the full transform is 15 or something. Once transformed, they can use the monster stat block minus the spears and other humanoid related things. It feels powerful at early levels, but it's only CR 3. Eventually the player character will outclass the werewolf and it will become less of a mechanic to the point that it will simply be a badge of honor within the Grey Wolf tribe that they can transform.
I don't think it would be gamebreaking unless the players are just starting out at level 1, but even so levels 1-3 go by quick so the game will catch up fast.
As for the lore, I think the Grey Wolf tribe may bestow the curse to new members to see if they can control the beast, a sort of right of passage. If they can't the tribe will deal with them on their own terms by either removing the curse or removing the creature from existence. However, if they can control the beast, the tribe may reach out for specific quests to be done to allow that player to rise up within the hierarchy of the tribe eventually reaching one of the top tier members by around level 10.
Agreed. The player may not consciously realise it but what they are saying is, "I want to play a bad guy."
Seriously, even if you ignore the whole "savage human-eating weremonster" bit, the Grey Wolves are not good people.
As a GM, you can just say, "The Grey Wolves are one of the bad guys in this campaign and I don't want PCs playing villains."
I think you need to ask several questions:
How concerned are you in the lore that werewolves are chaotic evil? If not and the character can remain whichever alignment they are, then depending on party level/composition/etc it’s just a balancing issue.
If the lore is important, do you want to run a game with a chaotic evil PC?
If you’re ok with it, does your player understand what it means to play a chaotic evil character and is that really what they’re looking for?
If so, talk to the rest of the table, do they want to play in a game with a chaotic evil PC?
Chaotic evil PC’s can be fun, but in my experience it is a party wide effort.
As far as Grey Wolves lore goes, any member who didn’t want to share the curse could leave the tribe and would be cured within a year. However in the 5E timeline the Grey Wolves are a “lost tribe” having been destroyed because of their curse and the survivors scattered among the rest of the Uthgardt, which opens up some RP possibilities without having to go full werewolf.
Edit: If you do decide to let them become a werewolf I’d probably prepared to grant your other players extra abilities.
lets set aside RaW for now. Redemption stories are the bedrock, bread and butter, trope of story telling. Whose to say that the player isn't a Grey Wolf barbarian? Maybe his hunting party came upon a group of refugees and fell upon them savagely, only to have him come across a child that looks almost identical to a cherished family member. When faced with the choice of following the tribe and slaying this doppelganger, he realized that he couldn't do it anymore and fled. Now he is traveling trying to atone for past sins, while his tribe hunts him, maybe the very same family member he was reminded of is leading them? Did someone order an antagonistic, yet emotionally motivated NPC?
In the end, if you can find a way to wrap your head around a character, their past, and their motivations without breaking your game, I say go for it.
Here is a link to the blood hunter class on D&D beyond. Just scroll down a bit until you come across the Order of the Lycan section. https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/blood-hunter . You could just use that or modify it to fit your needs.
Lots of thoughts and good advice for me to ponder there, thanks guys. My inclination is to ensure he can't go full-werewolf, and that an alignment change to CE even once month would also be too problematic.
This reminds me of the werebear fluff. They master the curse, while maintaining their alignment, through a life of discipline and contemplation in isolation, and pass it on only to those whom they are sure can maintain the same control.
While the werebear version of lycanthropy might be more suitable to this than the werewolf version, I don’t see why a werewolf couldn’t do this.
Agree with other comments that there is probably more to pick apart here, in terms of determining if the player’s main goal is an excuse to kill innocents, get more powerful from a low level, or have the story spotlight on their tale of woe.
The blood hunter Lycan is a good idea, and I think exploring the “Shifter” race from Eberron could be a good solve as well. If you want your players to be good, you can compromise on Shifter stats and say their character is actively resisting their curse and trying to track down the lycanthropes that originally cursed them.