I'm a little conflicted on how I want to go about my next session.
I'm going to put the scenario in a spoiler because one of my players frequents the forum and I don't want him to read it...
You know who you are, and I'll know if you know.
Long Story Short:
I want to have a dream sequence within which I have a highly likely TPK for character story reasons. Should I tell them about this beforehand so they don't think I'm killing their characters at the start of the session? If so, what do I tell them so I can try and keep most of the suspense/surprise? Or, do I keep it a secret and freak them out with the reveal?
Group Background:
I have 3 players. One is my twin brother, and we've been playing for 1.5 years now. The other two are new to the table. One is pretty laid back, yet experienced. The other is not quite as experienced with the game, or at least his class. They all do pretty good with RPing, though there are definitely varying levels. The three haven't really opened up much to each other yet, though we're only 11 session in at this point.
While I think they would take it pretty well, I can't help but shake a feeling that at least one of them might not appreciate or enjoy the experience and what I'm trying to accomplish. I live in a rather rural area, and so is somewhat difficult to get any sort of group like this in the first place. Like, I'm super lucky I have 3 players. The players are pretty great, and I don't want to scare them off. Thus the reason I'm posting this.
Story/Campaign Background:
So, my 3 players just got to level 4. One of my players is a Fire Genasi Storm Herald Barbarian who has a bad relationship with fire. Growing up, he never really used his Produce Flame because the setting we're in is very superstitious and fearful of unusual/rare races. As a young child, he tried to use his fire abilities during a really cold and sparse winter. His mother was sick at the time and in trying to warm up the house, ended up catching it on fire. Being so young, he was unable to get his mother out of the house, and so she died in the event.
Fast forward to the last two sessions - he uses his Barb ability to do 2 fire damage to all creatures within 5 feet. Doing this, he ends up burning a female ally who reacts poorly (she's not the most pleasant individual to begin with, honestly). This reminds him of his mother, and so he puts himself in timeout for the night, even though the town is celebrating the defeat of the Lizardfolk that had recently settled nearby and were trying to close the town off so they could, eventually, enslave them.
The Barb is adamant about going to the camp and burning it all down, and killing any Lizardfolk that might be left (a Shaman, two warriors, and juveniles (commoners)). The other two characters are hesitant, but they eventually agree to go and do that anyway.
The fight happens, they end up winning (only because the Shaman fled because they killed almost all of them, but also not not because one player lost 2 death saves...). So the Barb goes ahead and starts burning up all the huts. He goes to the center of the encampment and weeps hard as the fire rages around them (reminiscent of the "hut" he lived in as a child).
Scenario:
I want to have a dream sequence for the Barbarian of a Fire Elemental encounter that seems to happen during his watch. So, at the very start of the session I'll ask for the watch order like usual, roll perception and all that jazz. But, seemingly during his watch I will set up the FE encounter. I anticipate him waking up the others and actually fighting the Fire Elemental (they've previously "beaten" a Water Elemental because I had a super powerful Abjurer nearby to absorb most of the damage taken, so maybe they think they can actually beat it?). I will have the Fire Elemental first take out the weakest character, then the other, then focusing on the Barb.
Just as the Barb goes unconscious or he kills the elemental (unlikely), the Elemental's form will peel away to show the character himself inside the elemental - as though that is what he will become. Then he wakes up, startling whoever was going to be on watch next.
Question: Should I do this without giving them a heads up before the session this week? If I should let them know, what should I tell them so I can try and keep most of the surprise and suspense?
Or am I just being overly cautious? I know the Barb (my twin) will love it. I just don't know the other two players all that well and don't want to leave and sour tastes in any mouths. The group is great but new and I don't want to ruin anything.
And before anyone says anything, I have been working on character stories for all of them. The Swashbuckler Rogue Sailor has had a large chunk of his backstory explored already, and I've teased a few things for the Life Cleric Acolyte already. ;)
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any feedback.
I think this kind of thing only really works if it IS a surprise. I would be completely uninterested as a player if the DM told us beforehand that it was a dream sequence. I just wouldn't feel the emotion that the character should be feeling. Maybe you can drop small hints during the perception roll description to give them hints that it isn't quite normal. The trees don't move, there is no wind, etc. Something that a sharp player might possibly notice that can give them a feeling of triumph for figuring it out?
I think the biggest trick to pull this off is to have a good transition back to reality. Make sure they can tell it was premeditated, not "Hey! oh woops you guys died... haha it was just a dream!!!". That's the seed you are sowing with the hints I mentioned earlier. If you did all that before they tpk, you have concrete things to point out that show it was planned and not just a cover up.
If I was playing this, I would be very satisfied with the character development and immersion. I think it's a great idea, and I hope that your players at least have the emotional fortitude to make it through to the end without blowing up on you. In fact, I hope all players are able to separate the DM from their friend, and never be truly upset with someone due to game actions (within reason obviously).
You obviously know your players better than we do, even if you don't know them that well. But I can't see how this would be impactful without them believing it to be real to begin with.
I would say not to tell them, but rather than make it simply a TPK, have the fire elemental taunt the barbarian as he beats on everyone. The taunts should be in the vein of the Barbarian's lack of control, how much he's responsible for the pain being suffered by his friends, and generally being "openly cryptic" about his reasons for the attack. Give the players just enough to say "something else is at play here".
If you want a reveal, maybe once everyone but the Barbarian has been defeated, he decides to "end the charade" and reveals his true form to the Barbarian while it continues to fight and taunt.
If nothing else, this should peak the players' curiosity about what this is about and given them something to try to figure out rather than concentrating solely on the fact their characters are being killed. Although there is a risk of giving yourself away to someone who maybe a bit more intuitive than normal.
I'll say that I'm not a fan of the "... BUT IT WAS ALL A DREAM!" reveal at the end.
I recently had a new player joining my campaign, and she had never played before. I wanted to avoid dropping her in the middle of a story that she knew nothing about, but I also didn't want to deprive the other players of a proper gaming session. So the dream sequence was kind of the ideal way to do it, but I put a small twist on it, that I thought was smart.
Instead of being an actual dream, they got pulled into another plane, where time and space doesn't really work the same way. Places connected without making real sense, absurd things happening, and so on. All of the plane was actually informed by events past and future though, and everything was shrouded in symbolism, and they were warned about it at the beginning, that they should try and look at the meaning of things.
To populate the place, I took the NPCs from my campaign, and included them, except they were just representation of their deepest fear/desire/feelings. So a character hellbent on revenge could be seen destroying everything on her path. A melancholic character would only speak about regret and sadness, and so on.
It wasn't always subtle - I'm trying to introduce firearms in my settings, and I'm doing so by having the PC investigate an impossible murder that was basically "the guy got shot from afar". One of the places on the plane was basically a long cylindrical metalic corridor that they would follow until they were propelled out, unto a place made of flesh. Yeah. Not always subtle. But it works.
It also made place for battle encounters, I introduced a paper basilisk that had no mouth but was able to talk by "printing" words on the pages that constituted its body. Anything to make the place weird and dreamy.
In the end, I think it still had the dreamlike quality i was shooting for, but because it was actually their characters there, it was still real.
In your case, I think it would be interesting to start with a small Fire Elemental, tweaking its sheet a bit, making it an easy fight, except each time it gets defeated, it comes back slightly stronger, until it explodes, damaging everyone in melee range, and leaving behind a body that looks like the barbarian.
Obviously you know your players better than I do, and maybe this would be the wrong idea for you table. I wanted to offer this alternative, having been confronted to the same dilemma recently, and having enjoyed the solution I came up with, to make it significant to everyone.
I'll say that I'm not a fan of the "... BUT IT WAS ALL A DREAM!" reveal at the end.
I recently had a new player joining my campaign, and she had never played before. I wanted to avoid dropping her in the middle of a story that she knew nothing about, but I also didn't want to deprive the other players of a proper gaming session. So the dream sequence was kind of the ideal way to do it, but I put a small twist on it, that I thought was smart.
Instead of being an actual dream, they got pulled into another plane, where time and space doesn't really work the same way. Places connected without making real sense, absurd things happening, and so on. All of the plane was actually informed by events past and future though, and everything was shrouded in symbolism, and they were warned about it at the beginning, that they should try and look at the meaning of things.
To populate the place, I took the NPCs from my campaign, and included them, except they were just representation of their deepest fear/desire/feelings. So a character hellbent on revenge could be seen destroying everything on her path. A melancholic character would only speak about regret and sadness, and so on.
It wasn't always subtle - I'm trying to introduce firearms in my settings, and I'm doing so by having the PC investigate an impossible murder that was basically "the guy got shot from afar". One of the places on the plane was basically a long cylindrical metalic corridor that they would follow until they were propelled out, unto a place made of flesh. Yeah. Not always subtle. But it works.
It also made place for battle encounters, I introduced a paper basilisk that had no mouth but was able to talk by "printing" words on the pages that constituted its body. Anything to make the place weird and dreamy.
In the end, I think it still had the dreamlike quality i was shooting for, but because it was actually their characters there, it was still real.
In your case, I think it would be interesting to start with a small Fire Elemental, tweaking its sheet a bit, making it an easy fight, except each time it gets defeated, it comes back slightly stronger, until it explodes, damaging everyone in melee range, and leaving behind a body that looks like the barbarian.
Obviously you know your players better than I do, and maybe this would be the wrong idea for you table. I wanted to offer this alternative, having been confronted to the same dilemma recently, and having enjoyed the solution I came up with, to make it significant to everyone.
This takes away a bit of the impact from the Barbarian, though, as it's less about something their character is subconsciously experiencing and worrying about, and more about something that just... happens to them.
I really like the idea and don't think you should tell them at all, but completely agree with JoshKnoebel - it's all about the transition back to reality, and leaving clues that it was planned all along. Making sure there's ways for the players to realize what's going on, either at the time or with hindsight, is incredibly important to making sure this encounter doesn't feel cheap and retcon-y.
I'm a little conflicted on how I want to go about my next session.
I'm going to put the scenario in a spoiler because one of my players frequents the forum and I don't want him to read it...
You know who you are, and I'll know if you know.
Long Story Short:
I want to have a dream sequence within which I have a highly likely TPK for character story reasons.
Should I tell them about this beforehand so they don't think I'm killing their characters at the start of the session? If so, what do I tell them so I can try and keep most of the suspense/surprise? Or, do I keep it a secret and freak them out with the reveal?
Group Background:
I have 3 players. One is my twin brother, and we've been playing for 1.5 years now. The other two are new to the table. One is pretty laid back, yet experienced. The other is not quite as experienced with the game, or at least his class. They all do pretty good with RPing, though there are definitely varying levels. The three haven't really opened up much to each other yet, though we're only 11 session in at this point.
While I think they would take it pretty well, I can't help but shake a feeling that at least one of them might not appreciate or enjoy the experience and what I'm trying to accomplish. I live in a rather rural area, and so is somewhat difficult to get any sort of group like this in the first place. Like, I'm super lucky I have 3 players. The players are pretty great, and I don't want to scare them off.
Thus the reason I'm posting this.
Story/Campaign Background:
So, my 3 players just got to level 4. One of my players is a Fire Genasi Storm Herald Barbarian who has a bad relationship with fire. Growing up, he never really used his Produce Flame because the setting we're in is very superstitious and fearful of unusual/rare races. As a young child, he tried to use his fire abilities during a really cold and sparse winter. His mother was sick at the time and in trying to warm up the house, ended up catching it on fire. Being so young, he was unable to get his mother out of the house, and so she died in the event.
Fast forward to the last two sessions - he uses his Barb ability to do 2 fire damage to all creatures within 5 feet. Doing this, he ends up burning a female ally who reacts poorly (she's not the most pleasant individual to begin with, honestly). This reminds him of his mother, and so he puts himself in timeout for the night, even though the town is celebrating the defeat of the Lizardfolk that had recently settled nearby and were trying to close the town off so they could, eventually, enslave them.
The Barb is adamant about going to the camp and burning it all down, and killing any Lizardfolk that might be left (a Shaman, two warriors, and juveniles (commoners)). The other two characters are hesitant, but they eventually agree to go and do that anyway.
The fight happens, they end up winning (only because the Shaman fled because they killed almost all of them, but also not not because one player lost 2 death saves...). So the Barb goes ahead and starts burning up all the huts. He goes to the center of the encampment and weeps hard as the fire rages around them (reminiscent of the "hut" he lived in as a child).
Scenario:
I want to have a dream sequence for the Barbarian of a Fire Elemental encounter that seems to happen during his watch. So, at the very start of the session I'll ask for the watch order like usual, roll perception and all that jazz. But, seemingly during his watch I will set up the FE encounter. I anticipate him waking up the others and actually fighting the Fire Elemental (they've previously "beaten" a Water Elemental because I had a super powerful Abjurer nearby to absorb most of the damage taken, so maybe they think they can actually beat it?). I will have the Fire Elemental first take out the weakest character, then the other, then focusing on the Barb.
Just as the Barb goes unconscious or he kills the elemental (unlikely), the Elemental's form will peel away to show the character himself inside the elemental - as though that is what he will become. Then he wakes up, startling whoever was going to be on watch next.
Question: Should I do this without giving them a heads up before the session this week? If I should let them know, what should I tell them so I can try and keep most of the surprise and suspense?
Or am I just being overly cautious? I know the Barb (my twin) will love it. I just don't know the other two players all that well and don't want to leave and sour tastes in any mouths. The group is great but new and I don't want to ruin anything.
And before anyone says anything, I have been working on character stories for all of them. The Swashbuckler Rogue Sailor has had a large chunk of his backstory explored already, and I've teased a few things for the Life Cleric Acolyte already. ;)
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any feedback.
I think this kind of thing only really works if it IS a surprise. I would be completely uninterested as a player if the DM told us beforehand that it was a dream sequence. I just wouldn't feel the emotion that the character should be feeling. Maybe you can drop small hints during the perception roll description to give them hints that it isn't quite normal. The trees don't move, there is no wind, etc. Something that a sharp player might possibly notice that can give them a feeling of triumph for figuring it out?
I think the biggest trick to pull this off is to have a good transition back to reality. Make sure they can tell it was premeditated, not "Hey! oh woops you guys died... haha it was just a dream!!!". That's the seed you are sowing with the hints I mentioned earlier. If you did all that before they tpk, you have concrete things to point out that show it was planned and not just a cover up.
If I was playing this, I would be very satisfied with the character development and immersion. I think it's a great idea, and I hope that your players at least have the emotional fortitude to make it through to the end without blowing up on you. In fact, I hope all players are able to separate the DM from their friend, and never be truly upset with someone due to game actions (within reason obviously).
Good luck!
Have they met anyone who could cast Dreameater or Nightmare?
I think it's a cool idea and wouldn't tell them before.
You obviously know your players better than we do, even if you don't know them that well. But I can't see how this would be impactful without them believing it to be real to begin with.
Just as a friendly suggestion:
I would say not to tell them, but rather than make it simply a TPK, have the fire elemental taunt the barbarian as he beats on everyone. The taunts should be in the vein of the Barbarian's lack of control, how much he's responsible for the pain being suffered by his friends, and generally being "openly cryptic" about his reasons for the attack. Give the players just enough to say "something else is at play here".
If you want a reveal, maybe once everyone but the Barbarian has been defeated, he decides to "end the charade" and reveals his true form to the Barbarian while it continues to fight and taunt.
If nothing else, this should peak the players' curiosity about what this is about and given them something to try to figure out rather than concentrating solely on the fact their characters are being killed. Although there is a risk of giving yourself away to someone who maybe a bit more intuitive than normal.
I'll say that I'm not a fan of the "... BUT IT WAS ALL A DREAM!" reveal at the end.
I recently had a new player joining my campaign, and she had never played before. I wanted to avoid dropping her in the middle of a story that she knew nothing about, but I also didn't want to deprive the other players of a proper gaming session. So the dream sequence was kind of the ideal way to do it, but I put a small twist on it, that I thought was smart.
Instead of being an actual dream, they got pulled into another plane, where time and space doesn't really work the same way. Places connected without making real sense, absurd things happening, and so on. All of the plane was actually informed by events past and future though, and everything was shrouded in symbolism, and they were warned about it at the beginning, that they should try and look at the meaning of things.
To populate the place, I took the NPCs from my campaign, and included them, except they were just representation of their deepest fear/desire/feelings. So a character hellbent on revenge could be seen destroying everything on her path. A melancholic character would only speak about regret and sadness, and so on.
It wasn't always subtle - I'm trying to introduce firearms in my settings, and I'm doing so by having the PC investigate an impossible murder that was basically "the guy got shot from afar". One of the places on the plane was basically a long cylindrical metalic corridor that they would follow until they were propelled out, unto a place made of flesh. Yeah. Not always subtle. But it works.
It also made place for battle encounters, I introduced a paper basilisk that had no mouth but was able to talk by "printing" words on the pages that constituted its body. Anything to make the place weird and dreamy.
In the end, I think it still had the dreamlike quality i was shooting for, but because it was actually their characters there, it was still real.
In your case, I think it would be interesting to start with a small Fire Elemental, tweaking its sheet a bit, making it an easy fight, except each time it gets defeated, it comes back slightly stronger, until it explodes, damaging everyone in melee range, and leaving behind a body that looks like the barbarian.
Obviously you know your players better than I do, and maybe this would be the wrong idea for you table. I wanted to offer this alternative, having been confronted to the same dilemma recently, and having enjoyed the solution I came up with, to make it significant to everyone.
Click to learn to put cool-looking tooltips in your messages!
This takes away a bit of the impact from the Barbarian, though, as it's less about something their character is subconsciously experiencing and worrying about, and more about something that just... happens to them.
I really like the idea and don't think you should tell them at all, but completely agree with JoshKnoebel - it's all about the transition back to reality, and leaving clues that it was planned all along. Making sure there's ways for the players to realize what's going on, either at the time or with hindsight, is incredibly important to making sure this encounter doesn't feel cheap and retcon-y.