Story time. So I was having my players fight three werewolves, nothing special. Our bard rolls a one to hit, and he's already pretty banged up. Me being me, I gave the poor boy mercy. Sort of. Instead of him dealing damage to himself or another PC, I instead have him cut his belt with his dagger, making his pants fall down. This didn't have any actual effect on the combat (as he kept missing, he didn't have a good day), but was still pretty funny. So, how do you guys deal with a nat one in combat? Is what I did valid?
What you did is exactly what the rules call for. Rolling a one just means the attack misses. Adding any kind of flavor description to that is great, and makes it more memorable for the players. IMO, having a natural one create a self-injury and actually deal damage to the character (or any other kind of effect that detrimentally affects the character) is out of line. Sure, you can house rule that it works that way, but it messes with encounter balance and makes things (marginally) more deadly than they should be.
RAW (rules as written), a natural one only has a special effect in combat, where it is a guaranteed miss no matter the bonuses applied to the attack. Many DMs (and players) consider it customary to add penalties to rolling a nat one, such as hitting allies, breaking weapons, or other unfortunate accidents, but there's no need to do those things if you don't want to.
My personal rule is that whenever a player rolls a natural one, whether it's in combat or not, they roll a d20 a second time to "confirm" and if they roll equal to or less than a certain number (7 - their proficiency bonus) then they suffer additional bad effects.
Lastly, so long as your players agree, pretty much anything you do is valid. There are no rules saying "Do this or you are a bad DM" (although there are definitely no-nos and the like), so it's up to you how you want to play the game.
I used to have a battlefield event table, from an idea I stole from an old DM. On a Natural 1, something would happen to the terrain of the battlefield -- a statue would crumble, and if you were next to it, you had to save or take damage (anyone who was next to it, on either side of the fight) Even if no one was there, the area around it became difficult terrain; or some kind of zone would pop up, a swarm of bees in a 3x3 square, for example, that damaged anyone who ended their turn in it. My favorite was shuffling the positions, each player and monster roll a d8 for direction and d6 for number of squares and everyone moves to a new spot; it screwed up positioning for everyone, sometimes for the better, sometimes not, but it kept things interesting.
There were more I don't remember. They were things that instead of double punishing the person who rolled it (it was still a miss, of course) it made things more interesting for everyone, and really helped force some movement around on the battlefield.
I would consider having them lose their weapon as if it slipped out of their grasp and flew some distance away. They generally have to fight the rest of the battle with their backup weapon. If you just make it an automatic miss regardless of modifiers, then it seems a nat 20 is simply an automatic hit with no other benefits. Most groups like to have an epic hit when they roll the 20, so I feel a 1 should have additional consequences. But that is just me. To each his own.
I would suggest not penalizing the player with a natural 1 in combat going that route penalizes characters with more attacks and higher-level characters. Your 11th level fighter that is dual-wielding will have a greater chance of something bad happening in combat than the level 1 character. The natural 1 penalty would affect melee characters more than casters over time, if you penalize a melee character with extra attacks that has a weapon on a roll of a 1, think about penalizing the caster character on any roll or save of 4 or below so it evens out to be fair to both parties.
However, I would say that if you want to go that way, make something bad happen on a 1 when the character has disadvantage only, that shows they are in a less than optimal position and something bad happening on a roll of 1 would be more understandable mechanically and thematically (slipping, losing a weapon, hitting an ally).
Most of the people I've played with think it's fun to have some extra bad luck on a 1 and extra good luck on a 20. Once I had a monk accidentally hit himself in the jaw and stun himself for two rounds. Once they were fighting in a giant nest, and every time anyone rolled a one, one of the eggs got broken. Nat 1 penalties can be really situational.
Twenties are less fun, it's just critical hits, extra damage. I'd like to find more creative 'rewards' for the nat 20s.
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Edeleth Treesong (Aldalire) WoodElf Druid lvl 8 Talaveroth Sub 2 Last Tree StandingTabaxi Ranger, Chef and Hoardsperson lvl 5, Company of the Dragon Team 1 Choir Kenku Cleric, Tempest Domain, lvl 11, Descent Into Avernus Test Drive Poinki Goblin Paladin, Redemption, lvl 5, Tales from Talaveroth Lyrika Nyx Satyr Bard lvl 1, The Six Kingdoms of Talia
Most of the people I've played with think it's fun to have some extra bad luck on a 1 and extra good luck on a 20. Once I had a monk accidentally hit himself in the jaw and stun himself for two rounds. Once they were fighting in a giant nest, and every time anyone rolled a one, one of the eggs got broken. Nat 1 penalties can be really situational.
Twenties are less fun, it's just critical hits, extra damage. I'd like to find more creative 'rewards' for the nat 20s.
Oooh, getting creative with nat 20s too? I may have to try that! Thanks for the advice!
I would consider having them lose their weapon as if it slipped out of their grasp and flew some distance away. They generally have to fight the rest of the battle with their backup weapon. If you just make it an automatic miss regardless of modifiers, then it seems a nat 20 is simply an automatic hit with no other benefits. Most groups like to have an epic hit when they roll the 20, so I feel a 1 should have additional consequences. But that is just me. To each his own.
The game is balanced around nat 1 being a miss and nat 20 having additional damage. If you mess with that, the balance will shift. If that's what you want, that's fine, but you should be aware that you're doing it.
For me, I have nat 1s be mechanically no different from an automatic miss, narratively, they get more interesting descriptions, usually marginally embarrassing.
I don't really see the need to add a penalty to nat 1s...
I mean, it's the opposite of a nat 20. A nat 20, people get a cool bonus and feel really good. So on a nat 1, people would get an annoying penalty and feel really bad? Why would I want my players to feel bad more often?
I mean sure, you need the potential for failure for success to mean anything, but the game's already balanced around nat1s being misses, I don't see a balance reason to make them even worse.
I don't penalize for nat1. Though I do think of more fun things that can happen. As mentioned having it affect the environment is the most fun.
Players are in a bar brawl, gnome goes to attack a dwarf near a few barrels. Player rolls nat1, hits the rope holding the barrels and they come rolling down. Everyone rolls dex saving throw including the NPCs. Ever see a gnome get chased out of the tavern by a barrel only to be rolled over by it at the bottom of the steps? Yup. Happens.
DM's choice I would say, all the comments above on rules are true - however it's still up to you as the DM.
I look at the situation at hand, as DM doesn't take into account a lot things in combat that other games do such as people standing close to an enemy you're firing your arrow at - I do use nat 1's to play with this. I think this is fair as it doesn't happen that often and it gives some more dynamics and awareness for players making tricky shots or moves that they just might roll a 1 so they play a bit more realistic.
Mostly I only use it to implement funny things, rolling a 1 might cause them to drop their weapon, or it flings out of their hands and bounces over the floor, or it gets stuck into a piece of wooden furniture. But, as mentioned, when they make a very tricky shot with a PC standing close to it and roll a 1 I let the dice decide. It misses the target completely and I roll a D6 when using hexagons, a d8 when using squares to determine the travel of the object. 1 naturally being the least favorable (player or object you're trying to avoid) and then just simply counting clockwise. In all the games I played it only happened once that one of the player shot a companion in the calf. :)
I penalise Nat 1s but also give extra bonuses for Nat 20s, generally these bonuses depend on the damage type. :) it adds some interesting twists to combat.
IMO, having a natural one create a self-injury and actually deal damage to the character (or any other kind of effect that detrimentally affects the character) is out of line. Sure, you can house rule that it works that way, but it messes with encounter balance
Agreed (though: balance might not be too off if applied to both sides).
I usually just describe natural 1's as something happening (outside the character's control, like something getting in the way) that would explain why say, such and incredible swordsman might miss such an easy target. That's exactly what a natural 1 is: bad luck, NOT poor skill.
I might occasionally describe the attacker as prone too, if it seems like it would add to the fun (maybe whatever they were standing on broke or crumbled). Players rarely mind that though, and often find it entertaining.
i try to keep my nat 1s and 20s mechanically the same but with cool narration unless it would have an environmental effect, but as mentioned, it up to you how you use your nats
It also is going to depend on your table, what you do with Nat1s. I DM for my nephews so Nat1s tend to be bad luck stuff like dropping the weapon. Last game we played, my brother got a Nat1 and narrated his own character getting hit in the face with his own attack. Nephew1 rolled a nat 1 on the next turn so I narrated that he was laughing so hard at the first character getting hit in the face that he missed and whacked himself in the face too. Which absolutely delighted the kids. I'll do the same thing to the NPC enemies and might have them inflict damage on themselves with a Nat1 but I don't do damage to the PCs on a Nat1. Another table might actually get a kick out of friendly fire penalties on Nat1s.
You miss. That's it. If you want to make it comedic or embarrassing, that's fine (player discretion), but you're not going to throw your weapon across the room, hit your teammate, or anything absurd like that. We're playing D&D, not The Three Stooges RPG.
I mean, if you're in that type of a campaign (maybe an Acq Inc or a Discworld-flavored campaign) then comedy is perfect. Describing it as a player smacking themselves in the face or whatever else can be great if the table is into it. I'd just stop short of anything that actually does HP damage that messes with the statistical balance of the game mechanics.
I can see being looser with that out of combat when it's not critical to the players. (as in: Grog, you had a great idea! Roll for psychic damage.)
Story time. So I was having my players fight three werewolves, nothing special. Our bard rolls a one to hit, and he's already pretty banged up. Me being me, I gave the poor boy mercy. Sort of. Instead of him dealing damage to himself or another PC, I instead have him cut his belt with his dagger, making his pants fall down. This didn't have any actual effect on the combat (as he kept missing, he didn't have a good day), but was still pretty funny. So, how do you guys deal with a nat one in combat? Is what I did valid?
"You are a slave. Want emancipation?"
-Persona 5
What you did is exactly what the rules call for. Rolling a one just means the attack misses. Adding any kind of flavor description to that is great, and makes it more memorable for the players. IMO, having a natural one create a self-injury and actually deal damage to the character (or any other kind of effect that detrimentally affects the character) is out of line. Sure, you can house rule that it works that way, but it messes with encounter balance and makes things (marginally) more deadly than they should be.
RAW (rules as written), a natural one only has a special effect in combat, where it is a guaranteed miss no matter the bonuses applied to the attack. Many DMs (and players) consider it customary to add penalties to rolling a nat one, such as hitting allies, breaking weapons, or other unfortunate accidents, but there's no need to do those things if you don't want to.
My personal rule is that whenever a player rolls a natural one, whether it's in combat or not, they roll a d20 a second time to "confirm" and if they roll equal to or less than a certain number (7 - their proficiency bonus) then they suffer additional bad effects.
Lastly, so long as your players agree, pretty much anything you do is valid. There are no rules saying "Do this or you are a bad DM" (although there are definitely no-nos and the like), so it's up to you how you want to play the game.
I used to have a battlefield event table, from an idea I stole from an old DM. On a Natural 1, something would happen to the terrain of the battlefield -- a statue would crumble, and if you were next to it, you had to save or take damage (anyone who was next to it, on either side of the fight) Even if no one was there, the area around it became difficult terrain; or some kind of zone would pop up, a swarm of bees in a 3x3 square, for example, that damaged anyone who ended their turn in it. My favorite was shuffling the positions, each player and monster roll a d8 for direction and d6 for number of squares and everyone moves to a new spot; it screwed up positioning for everyone, sometimes for the better, sometimes not, but it kept things interesting.
There were more I don't remember. They were things that instead of double punishing the person who rolled it (it was still a miss, of course) it made things more interesting for everyone, and really helped force some movement around on the battlefield.
I would consider having them lose their weapon as if it slipped out of their grasp and flew some distance away. They generally have to fight the rest of the battle with their backup weapon. If you just make it an automatic miss regardless of modifiers, then it seems a nat 20 is simply an automatic hit with no other benefits. Most groups like to have an epic hit when they roll the 20, so I feel a 1 should have additional consequences. But that is just me. To each his own.
I would suggest not penalizing the player with a natural 1 in combat going that route penalizes characters with more attacks and higher-level characters. Your 11th level fighter that is dual-wielding will have a greater chance of something bad happening in combat than the level 1 character. The natural 1 penalty would affect melee characters more than casters over time, if you penalize a melee character with extra attacks that has a weapon on a roll of a 1, think about penalizing the caster character on any roll or save of 4 or below so it evens out to be fair to both parties.
However, I would say that if you want to go that way, make something bad happen on a 1 when the character has disadvantage only, that shows they are in a less than optimal position and something bad happening on a roll of 1 would be more understandable mechanically and thematically (slipping, losing a weapon, hitting an ally).
Most of the people I've played with think it's fun to have some extra bad luck on a 1 and extra good luck on a 20. Once I had a monk accidentally hit himself in the jaw and stun himself for two rounds. Once they were fighting in a giant nest, and every time anyone rolled a one, one of the eggs got broken. Nat 1 penalties can be really situational.
Twenties are less fun, it's just critical hits, extra damage. I'd like to find more creative 'rewards' for the nat 20s.
Edeleth Treesong (Aldalire) Wood Elf Druid lvl 8 Talaveroth Sub 2
Last Tree Standing Tabaxi Ranger, Chef and Hoardsperson lvl 5, Company of the Dragon Team 1
Choir Kenku Cleric, Tempest Domain, lvl 11, Descent Into Avernus Test Drive
Poinki Goblin Paladin, Redemption, lvl 5, Tales from Talaveroth
Lyrika Nyx Satyr Bard lvl 1, The Six Kingdoms of Talia
Oooh, getting creative with nat 20s too? I may have to try that! Thanks for the advice!
"You are a slave. Want emancipation?"
-Persona 5
The game is balanced around nat 1 being a miss and nat 20 having additional damage. If you mess with that, the balance will shift. If that's what you want, that's fine, but you should be aware that you're doing it.
For me, I have nat 1s be mechanically no different from an automatic miss, narratively, they get more interesting descriptions, usually marginally embarrassing.
I don't really see the need to add a penalty to nat 1s...
I mean, it's the opposite of a nat 20. A nat 20, people get a cool bonus and feel really good. So on a nat 1, people would get an annoying penalty and feel really bad? Why would I want my players to feel bad more often?
I mean sure, you need the potential for failure for success to mean anything, but the game's already balanced around nat1s being misses, I don't see a balance reason to make them even worse.
I'd personally stick to funny narration like OP.
I don't penalize for nat1. Though I do think of more fun things that can happen. As mentioned having it affect the environment is the most fun.
Players are in a bar brawl, gnome goes to attack a dwarf near a few barrels. Player rolls nat1, hits the rope holding the barrels and they come rolling down. Everyone rolls dex saving throw including the NPCs. Ever see a gnome get chased out of the tavern by a barrel only to be rolled over by it at the bottom of the steps? Yup. Happens.
DM's choice I would say, all the comments above on rules are true - however it's still up to you as the DM.
I look at the situation at hand, as DM doesn't take into account a lot things in combat that other games do such as people standing close to an enemy you're firing your arrow at - I do use nat 1's to play with this. I think this is fair as it doesn't happen that often and it gives some more dynamics and awareness for players making tricky shots or moves that they just might roll a 1 so they play a bit more realistic.
Mostly I only use it to implement funny things, rolling a 1 might cause them to drop their weapon, or it flings out of their hands and bounces over the floor, or it gets stuck into a piece of wooden furniture. But, as mentioned, when they make a very tricky shot with a PC standing close to it and roll a 1 I let the dice decide. It misses the target completely and I roll a D6 when using hexagons, a d8 when using squares to determine the travel of the object. 1 naturally being the least favorable (player or object you're trying to avoid) and then just simply counting clockwise. In all the games I played it only happened once that one of the player shot a companion in the calf. :)
I penalise Nat 1s but also give extra bonuses for Nat 20s, generally these bonuses depend on the damage type. :) it adds some interesting twists to combat.
Agreed (though: balance might not be too off if applied to both sides).
I usually just describe natural 1's as something happening (outside the character's control, like something getting in the way) that would explain why say, such and incredible swordsman might miss such an easy target. That's exactly what a natural 1 is: bad luck, NOT poor skill.
I might occasionally describe the attacker as prone too, if it seems like it would add to the fun (maybe whatever they were standing on broke or crumbled). Players rarely mind that though, and often find it entertaining.
i try to keep my nat 1s and 20s mechanically the same but with cool narration unless it would have an environmental effect, but as mentioned, it up to you how you use your nats
It also is going to depend on your table, what you do with Nat1s. I DM for my nephews so Nat1s tend to be bad luck stuff like dropping the weapon. Last game we played, my brother got a Nat1 and narrated his own character getting hit in the face with his own attack. Nephew1 rolled a nat 1 on the next turn so I narrated that he was laughing so hard at the first character getting hit in the face that he missed and whacked himself in the face too. Which absolutely delighted the kids. I'll do the same thing to the NPC enemies and might have them inflict damage on themselves with a Nat1 but I don't do damage to the PCs on a Nat1. Another table might actually get a kick out of friendly fire penalties on Nat1s.
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You miss. That's it. If you want to make it comedic or embarrassing, that's fine (player discretion), but you're not going to throw your weapon across the room, hit your teammate, or anything absurd like that. We're playing D&D, not The Three Stooges RPG.
I mean, if you're in that type of a campaign (maybe an Acq Inc or a Discworld-flavored campaign) then comedy is perfect. Describing it as a player smacking themselves in the face or whatever else can be great if the table is into it. I'd just stop short of anything that actually does HP damage that messes with the statistical balance of the game mechanics.
I can see being looser with that out of combat when it's not critical to the players. (as in: Grog, you had a great idea! Roll for psychic damage.)
Keep in mind that a natural 1 happens in 5 % of all attacks (disregarding dis/advantage).
The groans and complaints about natural 1's on the table are punishment enough, I don't see the need to add injury to insult.
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Yeah, I definitely only do auto miss/critical hit for 1/20s.
And I don't do anything for nat 1/20s for anything other than to-hit rolls.