After watching the first season of Gotham again, I started to run Baldur's Gate like a the different mob bosses in the show. It is all about trading for favors.
I think that Avernus is the same. It is very easy to see what the PCs might need. However, I struggle more with what the devils might want. Sure they want souls, but we need to start with smaller things.
What are some things that you have come up with that the devils might want?
Quite simply power. Devils are selfish, self interested and have a strict heirachy that they want to climb. They want more devils under them and less above. Basically none of them will be happy until they replace Asmodeus at the top of the corporate structure. Souls are currency, the more you have the more power you have. To de-throne your immediate superior you can't just challenge and kill them like a demon might, there are rules. So you have to be inventive and play a long game.
For example I have an Erinyes that I've introduced into my game that's been masquerading as an aasimar in Baldur's Gate and has been influencing/steering the party. Her reasons are logical: BG is a great place for business, a furtile hunting ground of souls that are easily corrupted. She would essentially lose her market if BG were to go the way of Elturel, so at this point, her goals mirror that of the party (they both want to prevent BG from going 'down') and she is using them as an indirect means to go against the wishes of a superior.
Indeed her role has fleshed out somewhat since then and she's seeing that the party might actually be useful in her ascending the pecking order by taking out some of her higher ups and will steer them into those encounters covertly. She has other motivations that I'm pondering on, but I'm hanging a few of the PCs backstories on her machinations.
Another thing I'm doing with the devils is that I've established that they don't lie... But they are extremely clever. So they feed the characters information and let them assume things (much like they assumed she was an aasimar early on, she never even mentioned it and when they asked directly she said exactly what she was). Basically being evasive and holding back information, but never lying. Using the theory that any contract that comes of it wouldn't be binding if it was built on lies. Think like a lawyer/politician...
I've already had some success with corrupting the party. Which is so much fun. Another I've had a go at forming a warlock pact with, I was *this* close... But she backed out. That would have just been the begining. The PC thought she wanted her soul for the pact, the Erinyes essentially said 'dear I don't want your soul for what I'm offering now. No, when the time comes you'll come to me and offer it willingly...'. Now they're in hell, who else are they going to call on? Only this time the price has risen...
After watching the first season of Gotham again, I started to run Baldur's Gate like a the different mob bosses in the show. It is all about trading for favors.
I think that Avernus is the same. It is very easy to see what the PCs might need. However, I struggle more with what the devils might want. Sure they want souls, but we need to start with smaller things.
What are some things that you have come up with that the devils might want?
I don’t think you start with smaller things, I think you start with bigger things. Souls are a means to an end, but what’s the end? Power is the obvious answer, and it’s what the souls help them get, but even that isn’t the goal, it’s the means to it. (Not trying time discount anything you said Juan, all good points) They get the power, but what do they do with it? How do they wield that power? Do they just want it for its own sake? That’s pretty much just mustache twirling. Seems like they have to have some deeper plans at work. They’re immortal and those plans could span a few millenniums, but there should be a plan.
I agree with you Xalthu, although I think the OP is asking for adventure hooks and we're all giving the 50,000 foot view.
There are three things that seem to define devils: 1) They genuinely truly hate demons; 2) they bitterly resent and despise the deities who kicked them out of heaven and the angels who sided with them, and; 3) they bitterly resent and despise each other and consider all their cohorts to be losers and dead weight. If those noobs had just been half as competent as I am, any given devil tells himself, our side would have won the war against heaven in the first place. Depending on your cosmology, they may also despise and resent mortals, since the gods seem to like them so much and don't punish them for exercising free will. So, I think a large portion of their resources has to go towards these goals, by however circuitous a route.
So let's think about adventure hooks that flow from these goals. In the case of the first goal, the official cosmology, as written in BGDIA has the front lines of the Blood War in the Hells. That means the Devils are risking their actual, immortal lives in this fight. That has to be what at least 75% of their time and resources go towards. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if a lot of the favors they asked of mortal adventurers looked, at first glance, entirely wholesome. Wipe out a cult of Lolth-worshipping drow? I would have done that anyway! These devils aren't so bad! This is also a reason they need souls. Souls serve as cannon fodder. Souls power the war machines.
Thinking about the second, what devils would love love love is any opportunity to get the forces of the Upper Planes and the forces of the Abyss fighting on a different front. Their greatest triumph is someone like Zariel. Not only did they take away a white knight from the chessboard, they can also point to her and say to other angels "Look, see?! This one understands the cosmic importance of our fight! Your bosses are just cowards! We were right all along! It's not too late to join us! It'll be just like the old days!"
For the third goal, the grudges they hold for one another are deep and real, and the jockeying for power and position isn't just for mustache twirling. The actual goal is to end up in a position where you can get payback on a rival you've hated for a millennium. Conversely, for a lot of the devils on the front lines, they needn't have any more cunning a goal then surviving and getting promoted to the rear.
I think this is something to remember about the idea of hell being a bunch of mob bosses: there is an actual enemy at the gates. If the devils are the Penguin and the Riddler, are the demons Batman? Jim Gordon? Because they're knocking at the door and you can't ignore them. In a war movie, a bunch of gangster types trading favors would look more like Milo Minderbender's syndicate in Catch-22 or Harry Lyme in The Third Man.
Anyway, what would war profiteers and black-marketers need? Parts for their machines, always. Raw materials from Acheron and Gehenna that would have to run a demon blockade on the river Styx. Ransoming an important prisoner from a bunch of yugoloth mercenaries. Helping a night hag transport fairies or Fomorians from the feywild to serve as slave labor (or freeing them from said night hag for the benefit of a rival). Just some ideas.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
After watching the first season of Gotham again, I started to run Baldur's Gate like a the different mob bosses in the show. It is all about trading for favors.
I think that Avernus is the same. It is very easy to see what the PCs might need. However, I struggle more with what the devils might want. Sure they want souls, but we need to start with smaller things.
What are some things that you have come up with that the devils might want?
Quite simply power. Devils are selfish, self interested and have a strict heirachy that they want to climb. They want more devils under them and less above. Basically none of them will be happy until they replace Asmodeus at the top of the corporate structure. Souls are currency, the more you have the more power you have. To de-throne your immediate superior you can't just challenge and kill them like a demon might, there are rules. So you have to be inventive and play a long game.
For example I have an Erinyes that I've introduced into my game that's been masquerading as an aasimar in Baldur's Gate and has been influencing/steering the party. Her reasons are logical: BG is a great place for business, a furtile hunting ground of souls that are easily corrupted. She would essentially lose her market if BG were to go the way of Elturel, so at this point, her goals mirror that of the party (they both want to prevent BG from going 'down') and she is using them as an indirect means to go against the wishes of a superior.
Indeed her role has fleshed out somewhat since then and she's seeing that the party might actually be useful in her ascending the pecking order by taking out some of her higher ups and will steer them into those encounters covertly. She has other motivations that I'm pondering on, but I'm hanging a few of the PCs backstories on her machinations.
Another thing I'm doing with the devils is that I've established that they don't lie... But they are extremely clever. So they feed the characters information and let them assume things (much like they assumed she was an aasimar early on, she never even mentioned it and when they asked directly she said exactly what she was). Basically being evasive and holding back information, but never lying. Using the theory that any contract that comes of it wouldn't be binding if it was built on lies. Think like a lawyer/politician...
I've already had some success with corrupting the party. Which is so much fun. Another I've had a go at forming a warlock pact with, I was *this* close... But she backed out. That would have just been the begining. The PC thought she wanted her soul for the pact, the Erinyes essentially said 'dear I don't want your soul for what I'm offering now. No, when the time comes you'll come to me and offer it willingly...'. Now they're in hell, who else are they going to call on? Only this time the price has risen...
I bloody LOVE devils.
I don’t think you start with smaller things, I think you start with bigger things. Souls are a means to an end, but what’s the end?
Power is the obvious answer, and it’s what the souls help them get, but even that isn’t the goal, it’s the means to it. (Not trying time discount anything you said Juan, all good points) They get the power, but what do they do with it? How do they wield that power? Do they just want it for its own sake? That’s pretty much just mustache twirling. Seems like they have to have some deeper plans at work. They’re immortal and those plans could span a few millenniums, but there should be a plan.
I agree with you Xalthu, although I think the OP is asking for adventure hooks and we're all giving the 50,000 foot view.
There are three things that seem to define devils: 1) They genuinely truly hate demons; 2) they bitterly resent and despise the deities who kicked them out of heaven and the angels who sided with them, and; 3) they bitterly resent and despise each other and consider all their cohorts to be losers and dead weight. If those noobs had just been half as competent as I am, any given devil tells himself, our side would have won the war against heaven in the first place. Depending on your cosmology, they may also despise and resent mortals, since the gods seem to like them so much and don't punish them for exercising free will. So, I think a large portion of their resources has to go towards these goals, by however circuitous a route.
So let's think about adventure hooks that flow from these goals. In the case of the first goal, the official cosmology, as written in BGDIA has the front lines of the Blood War in the Hells. That means the Devils are risking their actual, immortal lives in this fight. That has to be what at least 75% of their time and resources go towards. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if a lot of the favors they asked of mortal adventurers looked, at first glance, entirely wholesome. Wipe out a cult of Lolth-worshipping drow? I would have done that anyway! These devils aren't so bad! This is also a reason they need souls. Souls serve as cannon fodder. Souls power the war machines.
Thinking about the second, what devils would love love love is any opportunity to get the forces of the Upper Planes and the forces of the Abyss fighting on a different front. Their greatest triumph is someone like Zariel. Not only did they take away a white knight from the chessboard, they can also point to her and say to other angels "Look, see?! This one understands the cosmic importance of our fight! Your bosses are just cowards! We were right all along! It's not too late to join us! It'll be just like the old days!"
For the third goal, the grudges they hold for one another are deep and real, and the jockeying for power and position isn't just for mustache twirling. The actual goal is to end up in a position where you can get payback on a rival you've hated for a millennium. Conversely, for a lot of the devils on the front lines, they needn't have any more cunning a goal then surviving and getting promoted to the rear.
I think this is something to remember about the idea of hell being a bunch of mob bosses: there is an actual enemy at the gates. If the devils are the Penguin and the Riddler, are the demons Batman? Jim Gordon? Because they're knocking at the door and you can't ignore them. In a war movie, a bunch of gangster types trading favors would look more like Milo Minderbender's syndicate in Catch-22 or Harry Lyme in The Third Man.
Anyway, what would war profiteers and black-marketers need? Parts for their machines, always. Raw materials from Acheron and Gehenna that would have to run a demon blockade on the river Styx. Ransoming an important prisoner from a bunch of yugoloth mercenaries. Helping a night hag transport fairies or Fomorians from the feywild to serve as slave labor (or freeing them from said night hag for the benefit of a rival). Just some ideas.