I got the D&D Essentials kit for Christmas and we've been running a few sessions and having fun. My PCs are set to explore the Butterskull Ranch quest next after just finishing the two initial quests: Dwarven Excavation and Gnomengarde. So far, the PCs got all the gold and quest rewards as stated in the adventures and my players chose the Hill Dwarf Soldier Cleric and the Human Folk Hero Fighter from the Starter Set pre-gens.
As per the adventure, the PCs can still do the Umbrage Hill quest from the starting quest selection and also have the Logger's Camp quest and the Mountain's Toe quest. Reading ahead, it seems that the PCs will come out of the Butterskull Ranch quest with just some more gold and a mithral chain mail armor. The Logger's Camp quest seems to only give the 100gp reward from Harbin Wester and nothing else.
What's really bothering me is after reading the Mountain's Toe quest, it seems that this will result in a TPK that the party can't really do anthing about. The Wererats are immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing attacks, there's no way for my PCs to get any magical weapons prior to this quest, and really, aside from the Dragon Barrow quest (designed for level 5 PCs, my PCs are currently level 3), there really aren't any magical weapons specified in this adventure. The sidequest of the Shrine of Savras doesn't give the PCs any good weapons as well, except for a butt-load of gold! How are the PCs supposed to deal with this adventure? Just talk to the wererats and leave Don-Jon to their mercy? Knowing my players, they'd like to wipe out these bad guys but like I said, I fear this will result in a TPK again.
I say "again" because we're still new to D&D, we played before but stopped, then picked it up again now. IIRC, their old PCs made it to level 2 or 3 when we stopped playing the Lost Mine of Phandelver. With this adventure, the players got TPK'ed by the ochre jelly (we reset after that), then got TPK'ed by the orcs on the way out (reset again), and then got TPK'ed by the mimic in Gnomengarde where I just ruled that the gnomes managed to rescue them after the mimic left them for dead and when they encountered the mimic again, I just had the mimic start at half of its total HP and even then, the PCs were quite bruised and injured by the time they took the mimic down.
Are you using the sidekicks? Running with just the two players seems a bit rough. I think a 3rd turn in combat is a must for most published adventures. Most are written for 4 or 5 member parties. They built the sidekick mechanic just for groups with only two players.
As to the wererats, you’re the DM. You can drop silvered weapons into the game anywhere. They could find some at Butterskull ranch, saying these orcs drove the wererats into the mines. Or Don Jon carries a silver dagger. It would be metagamey to suggest they pay the 100 gp to have their weapons silvered before leaving on that quest. But if there was a logical narrative that would encourage the players to silver their weapon, that could help them survive. Maybe have signs up outside the smith’s about offering next day pickup on all weapon silvering. You can talk the rats out, though. I was in a party that did it after assuring the rats we killed several of the the orcs that drove them out and they now had the numbers needed to retake their home. However, just leaving Don Jon there still fulfills the quest. Doesn’t have to be your problem. Maybe he puts them to work in the mine.
Magical weapons aren't necessary for dealing with wererats. Non-magical weapons just need to be silvered. For players playing melee-based characters, let them dump 100gp each into getting their weapons silvered and they'll be ready to roll for a fight with wererats. For any of your players who are playing casters (or have a caster sidekick), their spells - including cantrips - are effective against the wererats too.
EDIT: kbcollier posted some great points while I was double-checking the information on getting weapons silvered.
As to the wererats, you’re the DM. You can drop silvered weapons into the game anywhere. They could find some at Butterskull ranch, saying these orcs drove the wererats into the mines. Or Don Jon carries a silver dagger. It would be metagamey to suggest they pay the 100 gp to have their weapons silvered before leaving on that quest. But if there was a logical narrative that would encourage the players to silver their weapon, that could help them survive. Maybe have signs up outside the smith’s about offering next day pickup on all weapon silvering. You can talk the rats out, though. I was in a party that did it after assuring the rats we killed several of the the orcs that drove them out and they now had the numbers needed to retake their home. However, just leaving Don Jon there still fulfills the quest. Doesn’t have to be your problem. Maybe he puts them to work in the mine.
I'm a new DM and following the story as written. Shouldn't the adventure take this need for silvered weapons into consideration? If I did not pre-read the adventure or scrutinize the wererat stats, I would've walked my players into a TPK, this time being the DM's fault and not the players. I don't think the rulebook included in this box set even talks about silvered weapons, how to make it, how much it costs, etc. Is this an oversight on the part of those that made the adventure?
According to the adventure, the wererat fight can be delayed by clearing out the orcs in their previous lair, but the adventure says the wererats have no intention of leaving the mine so when the players return, I expect a fight to break out. Or was this quest designed so that it's more of a talk-quest rather than a clear-out-the-bad-guys quest? The first encouter, after all, has the wererat guards offer to escort the PCs to the wererat overseer. Can the PCs just explore the mine without having to fight the wererats? But the adventure has Don-Jon asking the PCs to eradicate the wererats and the last area of the mine has dwarf miners who I assume want to take back control of the mine from the wererats. If we were to leave the wererats in control of the mine, Don-Jon will be turned into one as well which I don't think will sit well with the players.
Magical weapons aren't necessary for dealing with wererats. Non-magical weapons just need to be silvered. For players playing melee-based characters, let them dump 100gp each into getting their weapons silvered and they'll be ready to roll for a fight with wererats. For any of your players who are playing casters (or have a caster sidekick), their spells - including cantrips - are effective against the wererats too.
EDIT: kbcollier posted some great points while I was double-checking the information on getting weapons silvered.
Nothing in the book suggests this and there is no story for getting the weapons silvered. Initially, I thought I might have just missed it and the adventure does cover this but reading it again, there's nothing.
I would say the lack of instruction about getting silvered weapons when this kit is designed for new DMs and players AND wererats feature in so much of the adventure is an oversight on the part of the writers. Fortunately, you have resources like the community here at DnDB to encourage you to give your players the best experience possible by going off-script and giving them weapons that will help.
I will say I’ve never heard any other group have so many TPKs in this. I’ve never heard anyone else describe DoIP as deadly. Every time I’ve run or played this campaign, I feel like the players make too quick a job of many enemies. I must assume it’s the 2 man party size. I’ve run with 3 and not had any problems.
Thanks for that, at least I know now that it's not something I've missed. I've spent quite a good amount of time wondering and looking for how the party was supposed to be prepared for this quest, I'm disappointed that it's been missed!
As for the TPK, it's probably due to three things: small group size, inexperienced players, and inexperienced DM! :D To illustrate, once I let my players "figure out" that the ochre jellies were slow movers, they then proceeded to just engage it from afar. My players are probably not using all available resources (my level 2 fighter forgot his Action Surge option for the whole session!!) and I'm also missing a lot of things such as reminding them of their options or describing the monsters in enough detail for them to figure out certain things.
Yep. That all sounds pretty standard for new groups. I haven’t been at this very long, myself. So I’m pretty familiar with forgetting half your class and racial features.
What I suggest is to give the Orcs at the temple of Savras some silvered weapons. That way if the players parley with the wererats, they'll be sent there and at least have the tools for the inevitable confrontation on their return. This makes sense because, as written, there is no way the orcs (even with the ogres help), could have driven off the wererats, as they have no way of harming them. What I plan to do in my game tonight is a) add an Eye of Grumsh to their forces (it will make a nice boss character, and provide a source of magic for the orcs); and b) have all the orcs they encounter "armed" with silver cutlery - a knife here, a fork there, maybe even a spoon - as a backup weapon. In the camp, they'll find an empty cultery case (perhaps with a few spare spoons), and if they manage to collect all the pieces and re-assemble it, the set will be worth 10gp. Attacking with a knife or fork does 1 point of damage (like an unarmed attack), but counts as silver. That way the orcs will have at least have had a fighting chance of driving off the orcs, and it gives the players a way of actually hurting the wererats later on.
Bob Worldbuilder on youtube had an exhaustingly indepth walkthrough/review of DoIP, which hits a lot of the issues with the module (I like it, not as much as LmoP, but I definately like it.)
My advice-
1) Have the characters each take a sidekick. An expert and a mage would be ideal. If they dont't like the personalities of the ones in the module, just you the background and bon/ideals of the wizard and rogue pregens from LMoP. As many have said, these adventures are balanced for the action economy of 4-5 characters of the given level. You're working with half that, and a lack of arcane/blast spells and specific skill sets.
2) Next adventure should be Umbrage Hill- the ability to get Healing potions will be needed asap.
3)Lastly- this doesn't require an out and out +1 weapon. Having a silvered or moon-touched weapon be found or gifted is easy enough. Heck make it something the players aren't expecting, the Folk Hero Fighter would do as well with a Rapier as a two handed sword, and the Dwarf Cleric is prof is Battle Axes and Warhammers as well as all Simple weapons. Something as simple as a cache of 3 or 4 silvered short swords (for the players and sidekicks), would make this playable. Its a major oversight of the adventure that is easily fixed.
Most hardcovers are geared for a 4 PC group. You have 2 PCs. Either run side kicks, have them run 2 PC each, or adjust the encounters down. If this was adventure league I would say you are running a VERY Weak group. Cut the monsters HP down by about half. Cut the number down by a half. Allow the group to RUN AWAY.
I had fun with this one. My players were welcomed into the mine by the rats and had a strained converation about ownership of the mine, all pleasant smiles and veiled threats. The rat queen made it clear she would welcome any party member who wanted to join her "mining company" as some of the old miners had been "convinced" to. "just a small formality is all that is required" with a flash of pointy teeth, etc. The party were not fooled, but told the queen they would leave and report back to the mining consortium about the new ownership and possible ways forward. They convinced the rats that they could find their own way out, and on the way back to the entrance dashed off down a side passage to start exploring.
After a couple of empty rooms, the rogue alerted the party to an approaching wererat, so they set up an ambush. It was only when the first blow struck that the party realised none of their weapons would work. What followed was a frantic pile-on where the paladin, the rogue and Don Jon restrained the struggling, shifting rat while the cleric first covered them in silence (so no alarm could be raised) and then in tandem with the mage blasted the thing with fire until it went down.
The party fled for their lives and once back in town asked about getting weapons silvered. They didn't have the money to afford this, so they started questing around for cash. The 2,500gp from the bell in the Shrine of Savras sorted that problem pretty quick! I told them it would take several days to silver the weapons, which has meant they have had time for more quests and levelling.
1) There is another magic sword available at the Tower of Storms on the coast. The friendly crab can be convinced to retrieve it for the party which helps avoid the sharks.
2) Modules are typically designed around a party of 4. You will have to adjust the encounters a bit or add an NPC or sidekick to the party if you want to run it as is.
3)The wererats are a challenging encounter however the book does list several possible options leading to a diplomatic resolution.
- the mine needs employees to mine the ore. The wererats need a home. Wererats are lawful, they live together and the characters might be able to convince them that instead of getting the entire town out here on a witch hunt killing lycanthropes, they might be better off working the mine and living here while earning a wage and keeping a low profile.
- although the module says that the wererats won't return to their old home, as DM you could change this so that if the players clear out their old habitation then perhaps the wererats will move back (this also postpones a confrontation until the players are likely higher level and might have magical weapons).
- if a group of two level 3 characters attacks the wererats without magic or silvered weapons they have no hope since they can't even damage the wererats. The wererats know this though. If the players get antagonistic the wererats could just laugh at them, tie them up and then it is up to you as the DM to decide what the wererats would do with them. The wererats could kill them but it doesn't really benefit the wererats very much. In this case, the wererats could strike a deal of some sort with the characters ... sparing them in return for some sort of service.
Basically, this encounter is only a TPK if the DM decides that it will be since the players can't do anything to the wererats except perhaps a spell or two.
Oops ... just noticed this was originally posted in January so comments above might not be useful to the OP :)
I know this is super late, but the encounter at the Shrine of Savros is also pretty much a guaranteed tpk. Suspected this during my prep and my suspicions were confirmed during my very first session when I almost immediately one shot two or my three players with the TWO OGRES AND 7 TOTAL ORCS that they had to fight in an encounter that was modified for the party size and level using the table given in the campaign book. I made the decision to modify the encounter and reran it cause it was literally unwinnable and it was their second combat.
I know this is super late, but the encounter at the Shrine of Savros is also pretty much a guaranteed tpk. Suspected this during my prep and my suspicions were confirmed during my very first session when I almost immediately one shot two or my three players with the TWO OGRES AND 7 TOTAL ORCS that they had to fight in an encounter that was modified for the party size and level using the table given in the campaign book. I made the decision to modify the encounter and reran it cause it was literally unwinnable and it was their second combat.
I think they may be intended to be spread throughout the shrine like in Butterskull Ranch. When I ran it, I placed the orcs inside and the ogres outside. Additionally, the ogres were in separate sections of the courtyard, and took some time to reach the players so they weren’t overwhelmed by them at once. The orcs inside opted to lay a trap, instead of engage, and several tried to ambush the players at the door, while the others guarded the alter.
I don’t think the module was clear enough about it, though.
On the OP’s post- the wererats definitely seemed like a mistake to me. When I was a player in this, we had to flee, and one of our group ended up a wererat. While that was incredibly fun, the balance was iffy. When I ran it later, I included a mysterious silver weapon salesman prior to the mine.
I know this is super late, but the encounter at the Shrine of Savros is also pretty much a guaranteed tpk. Suspected this during my prep and my suspicions were confirmed during my very first session when I almost immediately one shot two or my three players with the TWO OGRES AND 7 TOTAL ORCS that they had to fight in an encounter that was modified for the party size and level using the table given in the campaign book. I made the decision to modify the encounter and reran it cause it was literally unwinnable and it was their second combat.
As Undaunted said, the Orcs were spread around three of the corners of the courtyard, and the ogres were in the fourth.
So unless the party are stupid and don't scout ahead, then they should be able to take a group at one corner fairly quickly before reinforcements turn up.
Also, note the comment about the Ogres - they aren't allied to the Orcs at all, so there's no reason that they will charge into combat to rescue their comrades - hey they might even pick up the corpses of the orcs as they fall, rather than get involved in a fight at all.
Well my players are still super new and know next to nothing and are still trying to play like a video game I think. They did a bare minimum of planning and tried to snipe the orc in the guard tower but missed and he alerted the rest of his orc friends to the party. I had the orcs push out after to try to encourage them to run but they, being in the video game combat mindset, assumed that since it was a location they discovered at level one and went to it at level two they should be able to win this some how. Admittedly they did better than I expected but still, not great. And on top of that I've never dm'd before this, and I've never played either so we're all learning together haha.
I know this is super late, but the encounter at the Shrine of Savros is also pretty much a guaranteed tpk. Suspected this during my prep and my suspicions were confirmed during my very first session when I almost immediately one shot two or my three players with the TWO OGRES AND 7 TOTAL ORCS that they had to fight in an encounter that was modified for the party size and level using the table given in the campaign book. I made the decision to modify the encounter and reran it cause it was literally unwinnable and it was their second combat.
As Undaunted said, the Orcs were spread around three of the corners of the courtyard, and the ogres were in the fourth.
So unless the party are stupid and don't scout ahead, then they should be able to take a group at one corner fairly quickly before reinforcements turn up.
Also, note the comment about the Ogres - they aren't allied to the Orcs at all, so there's no reason that they will charge into combat to rescue their comrades - hey they might even pick up the corpses of the orcs as they fall, rather than get involved in a fight at all.
I'd have to disagree.
1) The courtyard is only 120'x120' wall to wall. Orcs have the aggressive trait allowing them to bonus action dash when running at an enemy. Combined with the dash action, any orc can cover 90' in one round. If the party engages a group of orcs in one courtyard, there is no way they won't be heard when the next orcs in an adjacent courtyard are only 80' away.
2) The single guard in the tower can alert the entire compound with a shout so I would say that any orc shouting stands a good chance of alerting the entire compound.
3) The ogres have joined the orcs. The module says that all of the ogres and orcs respond if alerted by the guard so I would think the same would go for any other combat developing. Of course the DM could change the module to save the characters but as written, there is nothing that says the ogres haven't joined the orcs.
"Recently, ogres wandered by the shrine, saw the ores, and decided to join them."
There are of course many things the DM could do to change the module to provide a more reasonable challenge but in many if not most cases, the shrine as written is a TPK waiting to happen for most parties.
Consider the balance as written:
Level 1: 2 orcs per character plus 1 ogre in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower. Level 2-3: 3 orcs per character plus 2 ogres in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower Level 4-5: 4 orcs per character plus 3 ogres in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower Level 6: 4 orcs per character plus 4 ogres in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower
All of these scale by party size. This encounter only becomes possibly survivable at level 5 and that is greatly assisted if the party has fireball or another large scale area of effect that can take out a lot of orcs at once.
What does the D&D Beyond encounter builder have to say for a party of 5 characters at each level scaled using the information given?
Level 1: Deadly is 500xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 4650 = 9.3+ times deadly - almost TEN times a deadly encounter for a level 1- add to that - most level 1 characters can be 1-shotted by an orc and instantly killed by a crit.
Level 2: Deadly is 1000xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 10,000 = 10 times deadly
Level 3: Deadly is 2000xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 10000 = 5 times deadly
Level 4: Deadly is 2500xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 13,800 = 5+ times deadly
Level 5: Deadly is 5500xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 13,800 = 2.5+ times deadly
Level 6: Deadly is 7000xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 15,600 = 2.2+ times deadly
The bottom line is that I don't know what the designer of this encounter was thinking. Characters that run into it before level 5/6 are almost certainly going to be TPKed if run as written. The problem is that DoIP is intended to be a beginner campaign for new DMs as well as players and a DM who runs this as written stands a great chance of wiping the characters out without breaking a sweat.
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Having run this adventure, I would warn a beginner DM about both the Irontoe mine and the Shrine of Savras as being particularly risky as written at any level. The encounter with the Oozes or the Manticore encounter can be deadly to a low level party if they don't understand the appropriate tactics to use. Other than that, most of the rest is ok if I recall.
I got the D&D Essentials kit for Christmas and we've been running a few sessions and having fun. My PCs are set to explore the Butterskull Ranch quest next after just finishing the two initial quests: Dwarven Excavation and Gnomengarde. So far, the PCs got all the gold and quest rewards as stated in the adventures and my players chose the Hill Dwarf Soldier Cleric and the Human Folk Hero Fighter from the Starter Set pre-gens.
As per the adventure, the PCs can still do the Umbrage Hill quest from the starting quest selection and also have the Logger's Camp quest and the Mountain's Toe quest. Reading ahead, it seems that the PCs will come out of the Butterskull Ranch quest with just some more gold and a mithral chain mail armor. The Logger's Camp quest seems to only give the 100gp reward from Harbin Wester and nothing else.
What's really bothering me is after reading the Mountain's Toe quest, it seems that this will result in a TPK that the party can't really do anthing about. The Wererats are immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing attacks, there's no way for my PCs to get any magical weapons prior to this quest, and really, aside from the Dragon Barrow quest (designed for level 5 PCs, my PCs are currently level 3), there really aren't any magical weapons specified in this adventure. The sidequest of the Shrine of Savras doesn't give the PCs any good weapons as well, except for a butt-load of gold! How are the PCs supposed to deal with this adventure? Just talk to the wererats and leave Don-Jon to their mercy? Knowing my players, they'd like to wipe out these bad guys but like I said, I fear this will result in a TPK again.
I say "again" because we're still new to D&D, we played before but stopped, then picked it up again now. IIRC, their old PCs made it to level 2 or 3 when we stopped playing the Lost Mine of Phandelver. With this adventure, the players got TPK'ed by the ochre jelly (we reset after that), then got TPK'ed by the orcs on the way out (reset again), and then got TPK'ed by the mimic in Gnomengarde where I just ruled that the gnomes managed to rescue them after the mimic left them for dead and when they encountered the mimic again, I just had the mimic start at half of its total HP and even then, the PCs were quite bruised and injured by the time they took the mimic down.
Am I missing something in this adventure?
Are you using the sidekicks? Running with just the two players seems a bit rough. I think a 3rd turn in combat is a must for most published adventures. Most are written for 4 or 5 member parties. They built the sidekick mechanic just for groups with only two players.
As to the wererats, you’re the DM. You can drop silvered weapons into the game anywhere. They could find some at Butterskull ranch, saying these orcs drove the wererats into the mines. Or Don Jon carries a silver dagger. It would be metagamey to suggest they pay the 100 gp to have their weapons silvered before leaving on that quest. But if there was a logical narrative that would encourage the players to silver their weapon, that could help them survive. Maybe have signs up outside the smith’s about offering next day pickup on all weapon silvering. You can talk the rats out, though. I was in a party that did it after assuring the rats we killed several of the the orcs that drove them out and they now had the numbers needed to retake their home. However, just leaving Don Jon there still fulfills the quest. Doesn’t have to be your problem. Maybe he puts them to work in the mine.
Magical weapons aren't necessary for dealing with wererats. Non-magical weapons just need to be silvered. For players playing melee-based characters, let them dump 100gp each into getting their weapons silvered and they'll be ready to roll for a fight with wererats. For any of your players who are playing casters (or have a caster sidekick), their spells - including cantrips - are effective against the wererats too.
EDIT: kbcollier posted some great points while I was double-checking the information on getting weapons silvered.
Not using sidekicks as there are two PCs; the book mentions sidekicks only if running for one player.
I'm a new DM and following the story as written. Shouldn't the adventure take this need for silvered weapons into consideration? If I did not pre-read the adventure or scrutinize the wererat stats, I would've walked my players into a TPK, this time being the DM's fault and not the players. I don't think the rulebook included in this box set even talks about silvered weapons, how to make it, how much it costs, etc. Is this an oversight on the part of those that made the adventure?
According to the adventure, the wererat fight can be delayed by clearing out the orcs in their previous lair, but the adventure says the wererats have no intention of leaving the mine so when the players return, I expect a fight to break out. Or was this quest designed so that it's more of a talk-quest rather than a clear-out-the-bad-guys quest? The first encouter, after all, has the wererat guards offer to escort the PCs to the wererat overseer. Can the PCs just explore the mine without having to fight the wererats? But the adventure has Don-Jon asking the PCs to eradicate the wererats and the last area of the mine has dwarf miners who I assume want to take back control of the mine from the wererats. If we were to leave the wererats in control of the mine, Don-Jon will be turned into one as well which I don't think will sit well with the players.
Nothing in the book suggests this and there is no story for getting the weapons silvered. Initially, I thought I might have just missed it and the adventure does cover this but reading it again, there's nothing.
I would say the lack of instruction about getting silvered weapons when this kit is designed for new DMs and players AND wererats feature in so much of the adventure is an oversight on the part of the writers. Fortunately, you have resources like the community here at DnDB to encourage you to give your players the best experience possible by going off-script and giving them weapons that will help.
I will say I’ve never heard any other group have so many TPKs in this. I’ve never heard anyone else describe DoIP as deadly. Every time I’ve run or played this campaign, I feel like the players make too quick a job of many enemies. I must assume it’s the 2 man party size. I’ve run with 3 and not had any problems.
Thanks for that, at least I know now that it's not something I've missed. I've spent quite a good amount of time wondering and looking for how the party was supposed to be prepared for this quest, I'm disappointed that it's been missed!
As for the TPK, it's probably due to three things: small group size, inexperienced players, and inexperienced DM! :D To illustrate, once I let my players "figure out" that the ochre jellies were slow movers, they then proceeded to just engage it from afar. My players are probably not using all available resources (my level 2 fighter forgot his Action Surge option for the whole session!!) and I'm also missing a lot of things such as reminding them of their options or describing the monsters in enough detail for them to figure out certain things.
Yep. That all sounds pretty standard for new groups. I haven’t been at this very long, myself. So I’m pretty familiar with forgetting half your class and racial features.
What I suggest is to give the Orcs at the temple of Savras some silvered weapons. That way if the players parley with the wererats, they'll be sent there and at least have the tools for the inevitable confrontation on their return.
This makes sense because, as written, there is no way the orcs (even with the ogres help), could have driven off the wererats, as they have no way of harming them. What I plan to do in my game tonight is a) add an Eye of Grumsh to their forces (it will make a nice boss character, and provide a source of magic for the orcs); and b) have all the orcs they encounter "armed" with silver cutlery - a knife here, a fork there, maybe even a spoon - as a backup weapon. In the camp, they'll find an empty cultery case (perhaps with a few spare spoons), and if they manage to collect all the pieces and re-assemble it, the set will be worth 10gp. Attacking with a knife or fork does 1 point of damage (like an unarmed attack), but counts as silver.
That way the orcs will have at least have had a fighting chance of driving off the orcs, and it gives the players a way of actually hurting the wererats later on.
Bob Worldbuilder on youtube had an exhaustingly indepth walkthrough/review of DoIP, which hits a lot of the issues with the module (I like it, not as much as LmoP, but I definately like it.)
My advice-
1) Have the characters each take a sidekick. An expert and a mage would be ideal. If they dont't like the personalities of the ones in the module, just you the background and bon/ideals of the wizard and rogue pregens from LMoP. As many have said, these adventures are balanced for the action economy of 4-5 characters of the given level. You're working with half that, and a lack of arcane/blast spells and specific skill sets.
2) Next adventure should be Umbrage Hill- the ability to get Healing potions will be needed asap.
3)Lastly- this doesn't require an out and out +1 weapon. Having a silvered or moon-touched weapon be found or gifted is easy enough. Heck make it something the players aren't expecting, the Folk Hero Fighter would do as well with a Rapier as a two handed sword, and the Dwarf Cleric is prof is Battle Axes and Warhammers as well as all Simple weapons. Something as simple as a cache of 3 or 4 silvered short swords (for the players and sidekicks), would make this playable. Its a major oversight of the adventure that is easily fixed.
Most hardcovers are geared for a 4 PC group. You have 2 PCs. Either run side kicks, have them run 2 PC each, or adjust the encounters down. If this was adventure league I would say you are running a VERY Weak group. Cut the monsters HP down by about half. Cut the number down by a half. Allow the group to RUN AWAY.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
I had fun with this one. My players were welcomed into the mine by the rats and had a strained converation about ownership of the mine, all pleasant smiles and veiled threats. The rat queen made it clear she would welcome any party member who wanted to join her "mining company" as some of the old miners had been "convinced" to. "just a small formality is all that is required" with a flash of pointy teeth, etc. The party were not fooled, but told the queen they would leave and report back to the mining consortium about the new ownership and possible ways forward. They convinced the rats that they could find their own way out, and on the way back to the entrance dashed off down a side passage to start exploring.
After a couple of empty rooms, the rogue alerted the party to an approaching wererat, so they set up an ambush. It was only when the first blow struck that the party realised none of their weapons would work. What followed was a frantic pile-on where the paladin, the rogue and Don Jon restrained the struggling, shifting rat while the cleric first covered them in silence (so no alarm could be raised) and then in tandem with the mage blasted the thing with fire until it went down.
The party fled for their lives and once back in town asked about getting weapons silvered. They didn't have the money to afford this, so they started questing around for cash. The 2,500gp from the bell in the Shrine of Savras sorted that problem pretty quick! I told them it would take several days to silver the weapons, which has meant they have had time for more quests and levelling.
A few comments (having run this myself).
1) There is another magic sword available at the Tower of Storms on the coast. The friendly crab can be convinced to retrieve it for the party which helps avoid the sharks.
2) Modules are typically designed around a party of 4. You will have to adjust the encounters a bit or add an NPC or sidekick to the party if you want to run it as is.
3)The wererats are a challenging encounter however the book does list several possible options leading to a diplomatic resolution.
- the mine needs employees to mine the ore. The wererats need a home. Wererats are lawful, they live together and the characters might be able to convince them that instead of getting the entire town out here on a witch hunt killing lycanthropes, they might be better off working the mine and living here while earning a wage and keeping a low profile.
- although the module says that the wererats won't return to their old home, as DM you could change this so that if the players clear out their old habitation then perhaps the wererats will move back (this also postpones a confrontation until the players are likely higher level and might have magical weapons).
- if a group of two level 3 characters attacks the wererats without magic or silvered weapons they have no hope since they can't even damage the wererats. The wererats know this though. If the players get antagonistic the wererats could just laugh at them, tie them up and then it is up to you as the DM to decide what the wererats would do with them. The wererats could kill them but it doesn't really benefit the wererats very much. In this case, the wererats could strike a deal of some sort with the characters ... sparing them in return for some sort of service.
Basically, this encounter is only a TPK if the DM decides that it will be since the players can't do anything to the wererats except perhaps a spell or two.
Oops ... just noticed this was originally posted in January so comments above might not be useful to the OP :)
Helpful to me! 4 years later!
I know this is super late, but the encounter at the Shrine of Savros is also pretty much a guaranteed tpk. Suspected this during my prep and my suspicions were confirmed during my very first session when I almost immediately one shot two or my three players with the TWO OGRES AND 7 TOTAL ORCS that they had to fight in an encounter that was modified for the party size and level using the table given in the campaign book. I made the decision to modify the encounter and reran it cause it was literally unwinnable and it was their second combat.
I think they may be intended to be spread throughout the shrine like in Butterskull Ranch. When I ran it, I placed the orcs inside and the ogres outside. Additionally, the ogres were in separate sections of the courtyard, and took some time to reach the players so they weren’t overwhelmed by them at once. The orcs inside opted to lay a trap, instead of engage, and several tried to ambush the players at the door, while the others guarded the alter.
I don’t think the module was clear enough about it, though.
On the OP’s post- the wererats definitely seemed like a mistake to me. When I was a player in this, we had to flee, and one of our group ended up a wererat. While that was incredibly fun, the balance was iffy. When I ran it later, I included a mysterious silver weapon salesman prior to the mine.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
As Undaunted said, the Orcs were spread around three of the corners of the courtyard, and the ogres were in the fourth.
So unless the party are stupid and don't scout ahead, then they should be able to take a group at one corner fairly quickly before reinforcements turn up.
Also, note the comment about the Ogres - they aren't allied to the Orcs at all, so there's no reason that they will charge into combat to rescue their comrades - hey they might even pick up the corpses of the orcs as they fall, rather than get involved in a fight at all.
Well my players are still super new and know next to nothing and are still trying to play like a video game I think. They did a bare minimum of planning and tried to snipe the orc in the guard tower but missed and he alerted the rest of his orc friends to the party. I had the orcs push out after to try to encourage them to run but they, being in the video game combat mindset, assumed that since it was a location they discovered at level one and went to it at level two they should be able to win this some how. Admittedly they did better than I expected but still, not great. And on top of that I've never dm'd before this, and I've never played either so we're all learning together haha.
I'd have to disagree.
1) The courtyard is only 120'x120' wall to wall. Orcs have the aggressive trait allowing them to bonus action dash when running at an enemy. Combined with the dash action, any orc can cover 90' in one round. If the party engages a group of orcs in one courtyard, there is no way they won't be heard when the next orcs in an adjacent courtyard are only 80' away.
2) The single guard in the tower can alert the entire compound with a shout so I would say that any orc shouting stands a good chance of alerting the entire compound.
3) The ogres have joined the orcs. The module says that all of the ogres and orcs respond if alerted by the guard so I would think the same would go for any other combat developing. Of course the DM could change the module to save the characters but as written, there is nothing that says the ogres haven't joined the orcs.
"Recently, ogres wandered by the shrine, saw the ores, and decided to join them."
There are of course many things the DM could do to change the module to provide a more reasonable challenge but in many if not most cases, the shrine as written is a TPK waiting to happen for most parties.
Consider the balance as written:
Level 1: 2 orcs per character plus 1 ogre in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower.
Level 2-3: 3 orcs per character plus 2 ogres in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower
Level 4-5: 4 orcs per character plus 3 ogres in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower
Level 6: 4 orcs per character plus 4 ogres in the courtyard, 1 orc atop the northeast tower
All of these scale by party size. This encounter only becomes possibly survivable at level 5 and that is greatly assisted if the party has fireball or another large scale area of effect that can take out a lot of orcs at once.
What does the D&D Beyond encounter builder have to say for a party of 5 characters at each level scaled using the information given?
Level 1: Deadly is 500xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 4650 = 9.3+ times deadly - almost TEN times a deadly encounter for a level 1- add to that - most level 1 characters can be 1-shotted by an orc and instantly killed by a crit.
Level 2: Deadly is 1000xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 10,000 = 10 times deadly
Level 3: Deadly is 2000xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 10000 = 5 times deadly
Level 4: Deadly is 2500xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 13,800 = 5+ times deadly
Level 5: Deadly is 5500xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 13,800 = 2.5+ times deadly
Level 6: Deadly is 7000xp, the adjusted XP using the given scaling = 15,600 = 2.2+ times deadly
The bottom line is that I don't know what the designer of this encounter was thinking. Characters that run into it before level 5/6 are almost certainly going to be TPKed if run as written. The problem is that DoIP is intended to be a beginner campaign for new DMs as well as players and a DM who runs this as written stands a great chance of wiping the characters out without breaking a sweat.
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Having run this adventure, I would warn a beginner DM about both the Irontoe mine and the Shrine of Savras as being particularly risky as written at any level. The encounter with the Oozes or the Manticore encounter can be deadly to a low level party if they don't understand the appropriate tactics to use. Other than that, most of the rest is ok if I recall.