My evil paladin is currently making deals with Asmodeus and I think it would be cool to have him summon his first devil at one point and giving him an Imp "familiar" He doesnt have control over it like you normally do with a familiar but it would be this funny submissive but always slightly cranky companion he would have.
The thing is... This player has said that he wants to, at one point, wants to become a good paladin again and renounce his god before starting to follow a good diety. I was wondering if it would be possible for the Imp to have an alignment change together with the paladin and then possibly having the new god change the imp into a Couatl but stats more like a Flying Snake and make it a homebrew.
If this creature dies they could revive it by re-summoning it at the costs of a bit of gold to buy the right materials.
Would this be a thing that i could do in my game without Messing with the general rules for good an evil?
Changing it into a flying snake-style couatl would be the way to go, though I don’t think you need to resort to deific interference.
Devils and demons can’t become good and remain devils and demons. Fiends aren’t like mortals; morality isn’t a choice for them. Evil is fundamentally a part of their metaphysical nature. If one were to become good, it would cease to be a fiend (automatically, no deity required). Having an imp become a little couatl seems a really neat way to portray this.
I would have the imp masquerade as a good creature and mean while try to turn him back to his evil ways , tempting him or pushing him to make decisions that are selfish and generally do what a insidious evil little devil would do .
The short version is, you’re the DM, you can do what you want.
Longer version, I don’t see anything game breaking here. Seems like you are doing it mostly for flavor, so it should all be fine. And while saga is right about demons not being good, there are exceptions to every rule. If the PC has a special connection to this imp, maybe it does change. Whatever revelation the paladin has could also apply to the imp, and turning into a couatl as a physical manifestation of the change sounds really cool. Or this might be the one and only good imp in the multiverse. if it’s your campaign, you can certainly make that be a thing. And since they are effectively immortal, you can have it reappear in future campaigns, to add a bit of depth and flavor to your world.
Technically if a devil or demon turned good, since it's by definition a creature of pure evil, it would cease to exist. Alternatively, the imp could turn into a small "guardian-angel" celestial. (I would definitely make an exception for this, since the whole character relationship is cute. Most people who ask this question want to get with a succubus...ew.)
Technically if a devil or demon turned good, since it's by definition a creature of pure evil, it would cease to exist. Alternatively, the imp could turn into a small "guardian-angel" celestial. (I would definitely make an exception for this, since the whole character relationship is cute. Most people who ask this question want to get with a succubus...ew.)
It wouldn't cease to exist, it would become something different. This is what happened to Zariel. She's not an evil angel, she's an evil devil who used to be a good angel.
You could homebrew a gradual physical and racial change that tracks with the alignment change, so that the imp ceases to be a true imp, but some freak hybrid of a some new type of celestial pet and an imp. Until the alignment is so locked in that he’s fully this new celestial. Maybe he becomes like a Shoulder Angel! Maybe he becomes both and splits into twins that look like the Paladin! Now I’m just throwing stuff at the wall. I was going to say stuff like he loses his stinger at the same time he starts communicating telepathically. His loses invisibility as he gains the ability to go supernova bright and blind creatures. But now I’m stuck on him becoming the shoulder angel and devil. That would require some homebrewing, but it would amount to him having two familiars with separate abilities and features.
Technically if a devil or demon turned good, since it's by definition a creature of pure evil, it would cease to exist. Alternatively, the imp could turn into a small "guardian-angel" celestial. (I would definitely make an exception for this, since the whole character relationship is cute. Most people who ask this question want to get with a succubus...ew.)
Incorrect.
it would mean it drew from the deck of many things.
to OP:
it’s possible with wish spells, and a draw of a specific card from the deck of many things.
According to the book a evil angel is rare while a good demon is almost never heard of so make it a challenge to try to reform it maybe have that challenge part of the paladins redemption
Generally, Saga is correct. A devil/demon is the result of a mortal soul that chose to act a certain way in life, expressing a given alignment. After death, the soul was transformed into an embodiment of that alignment. These creatures do not have the option of "changing their ways"; evil is an intrinsic part of their being. Should something drastic/powerful enough happen to the creature (said card from the DoMT is possibly one of my favorite backstory tools), it would cease to be what it is. An imp turning into a couatl is one way to represent this.
As the DM, you can run it any which way works for your game. If the paladin has worked his ass off on repenting, truly earned his stripes back, then his familiar can accompany him. Elsewise the imp could whisper evil in his ear, perhaps torment him with warnings of what happens to those who break a contract with Asmodeus (which, by the way, is absolutely a plot point; Asmodeus does not take that well), and generally try to tempt the paladin back to the Path of Evil. Perhaps ever more desperately; the imp could potentially feel the paladin's nature slowly changing, and being bound up to this mortal's soul, it may start panicking as its own nature goes along for the ride.
You are the DM. You can do whatever you like. That is the nature of this game we play.
IMO devils and demons get their powers and very existence from the nature of their plane of origin and the comitting of evil deeds. Therefore any change towards a good alignment should result in a significant loss of power. Most of a fiend turned goods abilities would most likely be reversed. Such as being shrouded in flames would become shrouded light/radiance. I also feel to best make this change believable the fiend turned good should have some sort of sponsor and or have performed some epic quest or world for the better changing task. Or perhaps even fall in love. Perhaps this fiend has a spark of humanity unkown or long forgotten.
Alignment in the Multiverse, PHB 122 A devil does not choose to be lawful evil, and it doesn't tend toward lawful evil, but rather it is lawful evil in its essence. If it somehow ceased to be lawful evil, it would cease to be a devil.
But your game, your rule. I have (had?) a devil in my homebrew that turned good. He was a masochist and realized the tormenting pain of doing good things as an evil creature and received great sexual pleasure from that. He's part of campaign setting lore now, as one of my world's folk heroes as a selfish adventurer.
I have (had?) a devil in my homebrew that turned good. He was a masochist and realized the tormenting pain of doing good things as an evil creature and received great sexual pleasure from that. He's part of campaign setting lore now, as one of my world's folk heroes as a selfish adventurer.
I have (had?) a devil in my homebrew that turned good. He was a masochist and realized the tormenting pain of doing good things as an evil creature and received great sexual pleasure from that. He's part of campaign setting lore now, as one of my world's folk heroes as a selfish adventurer.
omg l love that idea! do you mind lf l use it?
T.S. Eliot once stated, “Good writers borrow, great writers steal.” Be my guest!
I have (had?) a devil in my homebrew that turned good. He was a masochist and realized the tormenting pain of doing good things as an evil creature and received great sexual pleasure from that. He's part of campaign setting lore now, as one of my world's folk heroes as a selfish adventurer.
omg l love that idea! do you mind lf l use it?
T.S. Eliot once stated, “Good writers borrow, great writers steal.” Be my guest!
While devils/demons are traditionally evil i have made the good on very rare occasions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
They're lawful evil. So, I can't see it being fully converted as they see a devil lord as the "law."
But maybe its connected to the PC enough to cause a small crisis or morality allowing the imp to sacrifice itself to save the paladin. Maybe the PC is strongly attached to the Imp. Have the devil lord rend the Imp body and essence for failing to keep the paladin under control.
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Dear Dungeonmasters,
My evil paladin is currently making deals with Asmodeus and I think it would be cool to have him summon his first devil at one point and giving him an Imp "familiar" He doesnt have control over it like you normally do with a familiar but it would be this funny submissive but always slightly cranky companion he would have.
The thing is... This player has said that he wants to, at one point, wants to become a good paladin again and renounce his god before starting to follow a good diety. I was wondering if it would be possible for the Imp to have an alignment change together with the paladin and then possibly having the new god change the imp into a Couatl but stats more like a Flying Snake and make it a homebrew.
If this creature dies they could revive it by re-summoning it at the costs of a bit of gold to buy the right materials.
Would this be a thing that i could do in my game without Messing with the general rules for good an evil?
Changing it into a flying snake-style couatl would be the way to go, though I don’t think you need to resort to deific interference.
Devils and demons can’t become good and remain devils and demons. Fiends aren’t like mortals; morality isn’t a choice for them. Evil is fundamentally a part of their metaphysical nature. If one were to become good, it would cease to be a fiend (automatically, no deity required). Having an imp become a little couatl seems a really neat way to portray this.
I would have the imp masquerade as a good creature and mean while try to turn him back to his evil ways , tempting him or pushing him to make decisions that are selfish and generally do what a insidious evil little devil would do .
The short version is, you’re the DM, you can do what you want.
Longer version, I don’t see anything game breaking here. Seems like you are doing it mostly for flavor, so it should all be fine. And while saga is right about demons not being good, there are exceptions to every rule. If the PC has a special connection to this imp, maybe it does change. Whatever revelation the paladin has could also apply to the imp, and turning into a couatl as a physical manifestation of the change sounds really cool. Or this might be the one and only good imp in the multiverse. if it’s your campaign, you can certainly make that be a thing. And since they are effectively immortal, you can have it reappear in future campaigns, to add a bit of depth and flavor to your world.
I mean there's precedent for Celestials and angels turning evil (Zariel), so I suppose it's not entirely outlandish to propose it going the other way.
Technically if a devil or demon turned good, since it's by definition a creature of pure evil, it would cease to exist. Alternatively, the imp could turn into a small "guardian-angel" celestial. (I would definitely make an exception for this, since the whole character relationship is cute. Most people who ask this question want to get with a succubus...ew.)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
It wouldn't cease to exist, it would become something different. This is what happened to Zariel. She's not an evil angel, she's an evil devil who used to be a good angel.
You could homebrew a gradual physical and racial change that tracks with the alignment change, so that the imp ceases to be a true imp, but some freak hybrid of a some new type of celestial pet and an imp. Until the alignment is so locked in that he’s fully this new celestial. Maybe he becomes like a Shoulder Angel! Maybe he becomes both and splits into twins that look like the Paladin! Now I’m just throwing stuff at the wall. I was going to say stuff like he loses his stinger at the same time he starts communicating telepathically. His loses invisibility as he gains the ability to go supernova bright and blind creatures. But now I’m stuck on him becoming the shoulder angel and devil. That would require some homebrewing, but it would amount to him having two familiars with separate abilities and features.
Incorrect.
it would mean it drew from the deck of many things.
to OP:
it’s possible with wish spells, and a draw of a specific card from the deck of many things.
Blank
According to the book a evil angel is rare while a good demon is almost never heard of so make it a challenge to try to reform it maybe have that challenge part of the paladins redemption
Generally, Saga is correct. A devil/demon is the result of a mortal soul that chose to act a certain way in life, expressing a given alignment. After death, the soul was transformed into an embodiment of that alignment. These creatures do not have the option of "changing their ways"; evil is an intrinsic part of their being. Should something drastic/powerful enough happen to the creature (said card from the DoMT is possibly one of my favorite backstory tools), it would cease to be what it is. An imp turning into a couatl is one way to represent this.
As the DM, you can run it any which way works for your game. If the paladin has worked his ass off on repenting, truly earned his stripes back, then his familiar can accompany him. Elsewise the imp could whisper evil in his ear, perhaps torment him with warnings of what happens to those who break a contract with Asmodeus (which, by the way, is absolutely a plot point; Asmodeus does not take that well), and generally try to tempt the paladin back to the Path of Evil. Perhaps ever more desperately; the imp could potentially feel the paladin's nature slowly changing, and being bound up to this mortal's soul, it may start panicking as its own nature goes along for the ride.
Could be fun.
Please do not contact or message me.
You are the DM. You can do whatever you like. That is the nature of this game we play.
IMO devils and demons get their powers and very existence from the nature of their plane of origin and the comitting of evil deeds. Therefore any change towards a good alignment should result in a significant loss of power. Most of a fiend turned goods abilities would most likely be reversed. Such as being shrouded in flames would become shrouded light/radiance. I also feel to best make this change believable the fiend turned good should have some sort of sponsor and or have performed some epic quest or world for the better changing task. Or perhaps even fall in love. Perhaps this fiend has a spark of humanity unkown or long forgotten.
GOOD LUCK!
Alignment in the Multiverse, PHB 122
A devil does not choose to be lawful evil, and it doesn't tend toward lawful evil, but rather it is lawful evil in its essence. If it somehow ceased to be lawful evil, it would cease to be a devil.
But your game, your rule.
I have (had?) a devil in my homebrew that turned good. He was a masochist and realized the tormenting pain of doing good things as an evil creature and received great sexual pleasure from that. He's part of campaign setting lore now, as one of my world's folk heroes as a selfish adventurer.
...cryptographic randomness!
omg l love that idea! do you mind lf l use it?
There is a devil converted to good in the Avernus module, so there you go - it's official.
Does brain damage count as converted to good?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
T.S. Eliot once stated, “Good writers borrow, great writers steal.”
Be my guest!
...cryptographic randomness!
thanks!
While devils/demons are traditionally evil i have made the good on very rare occasions.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
- Litany Against Fear, Frank Herbert
Hmm. I'd kill the Imp.
They're lawful evil. So, I can't see it being fully converted as they see a devil lord as the "law."
But maybe its connected to the PC enough to cause a small crisis or morality allowing the imp to sacrifice itself to save the paladin.
Maybe the PC is strongly attached to the Imp. Have the devil lord rend the Imp body and essence for failing to keep the paladin under control.