@Auberginian - No, I didn't say whether I like the idea or not. I disagree with the assertion, which does not make it wrong. To imply so is disingenuous at best. I agree @LeviRocks is within their rights to believe whatever they wish to believe in. It is best to not insert words or intent into a post, PAW is generally clearer than PAI. ;-)
By design anything not provided by the designer (WotC) is the venue of solely the DM. And even what is provided is all applicable by the DM's whim. (Though they will need players, lest they DM for none).
But let's look at the impracticability of said price guide. What is the price of wood today? In the U.S., EU, China, Brazil, Chad, or Saudi Arabia? Each has a different market. Type of wood matters as well, there is a pretty big difference between softwoods, hardwoods, and bamboos in each of those places. What quality is the wood? Are we talking retail, wholesale, or manufacturers cost? What is the economic mobility? Can the political structure restrict trade? Who actually owns the trees? What kind of exchange system is used?
That's just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. So once again, I'll state, the price of wood, is whatever the DM states, no guide is necessary. That does not mean someone can't make such a guide, for their world and then offer to share with others.
We do have indirect indicators, though like most things with D&D prices they're a bit inconsistent; specifically, you can look at the price of manufactured goods that are in large part wood, though you'll wind up with a huge range (a torch is 1 cp and 1 lb, a club is 1 sp and 2 lb; a rowboat is 50 gp and 100 lb, which gives us a range of 1-50 cp/lb). Of course, one of those is made of firewood and the other two aren't, so I'd probably give an average estimate of 1 cp/lb for firewood and 1 sp/lb for boards.
Yes, the price will vary depending on the quality, and origin of the wood, like in the real world, but in the real world, each rowboat you buy doesn't have an asserted price. It varies depending on the type of material, quality, age, and design, and many other factors. D&D prices don't work that way. A DM can decide that the Rowboat the players want to buy is of better quality, and raise the price from 50 gp to 70 gp, but that's not how D&D prices work. It gives a number to be used as a standard price that makes sense based on all the other listed prices of items and animals, and gives a defined number for the objects price in precise amounts.
That is why in the Weapon section of the PHB, it doesn't say the price for a longbow is between 25gp and 150 gp, it gives a specific price to be based off of.
So, the reason there are even prices for objects in D&D is as a base. ANY DM CAN CHANGE ANYTHING IN D&D IF THEY WANT, THE RULEBOOKS ARE JUST GUIDELINES! Everyone who plays D&D should know this, and if you want to make a log of wood in your desert be worth 1000 gp, you can do so, but if I want a basis, a normal price for wood, like they provide for Iron, Gold, Platinum, Meat, Goats, and Cheese (and many many many other items and animals), is that a sticking point for you (du dum, crash)?
Why are you not complaining that they give a price for elephants, if you are complaining about the notion that maybe, the stuff that trees are made of should have a given price?
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It's not per bad for the game to list a price for wood. It's just not a particular significant failure, nor is it something the game should really depend on, because for most construction purposes you need to know the total price of all materials combined, not the cost of any one material, and for game purposes it rarely matters whether 100 gp worth of wood weighs half a ton or ten tons, in either case PCs aren't carrying it about.
I"m not complaining they gave any price, just like I'm not complaining they didn't give any price. Neither does any good, nor cannot be fixed or adjusted by the DM. Which is still my stance, the DM determines everything in their world, as Rule 0 dictates... Cause if the DM thinks a character should have something, they will get it...
I've done Conan campaigns where Steel was the currency, I've done campaigns based upon Asian Mythology where clay discs were the currency, I've done Lost Tribe campaigns were everything was bartered and I've done campaigns right from the rules and sourcebooks. All of them have plus and minuses.
What I do know, is that characters, just like players will tend to make decisions based upon value on time and threat of well being. So if adventuring does not provide a significant increase in the rate of acquisition of assets, then the characters will need a threat of well being to get them to adventure. Whether that adventure involves wilderness, caves, dungeons, dragons, monsters, politics, intrigue, or any other idea one can come up with doesn't matter. There needs to be a motivation to do it, to risk the present security of finances, family, and society perhaps at the cost of one's life.
Search online for a pdf called "Grain Into Gold: A Fantasy World Economy". Pages 12 & 13 should help. (The original question of the post, not the "should 5e have wood prices" discussion this has turned into.)
I"m not complaining they gave any price, just like I'm not complaining they didn't give any price. Neither does any good, nor cannot be fixed or adjusted by the DM. Which is still my stance, the DM determines everything in their world, as Rule 0 dictates... Cause if the DM thinks a character should have something, they will get it...
I've done Conan campaigns where Steel was the currency, I've done campaigns based upon Asian Mythology where clay discs were the currency, I've done Lost Tribe campaigns were everything was bartered and I've done campaigns right from the rules and sourcebooks. All of them have plus and minuses.
What I do know, is that characters, just like players will tend to make decisions based upon value on time and threat of well being. So if adventuring does not provide a significant increase in the rate of acquisition of assets, then the characters will need a threat of well being to get them to adventure. Whether that adventure involves wilderness, caves, dungeons, dragons, monsters, politics, intrigue, or any other idea one can come up with doesn't matter. There needs to be a motivation to do it, to risk the present security of finances, family, and society perhaps at the cost of one's life.
Okay, I like that you customize the worlds, and don't need this, but that doesn't make it any less useful for new DMs or DMs who don't want to have to scramble to find a balanced price.
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Okay, I like that you customize the worlds, and don't need this, but that doesn't make it any less useful for new DMs or DMs who don't want to have to scramble to find a balanced price.
The balanced price is "spending a day woodchopping, if you are proficient with woodworking, as a day practicing a modest job. Otherwise it counts as a day practicing a poor job." The amount of wood that actually is doesn't particularly matter.
Okay, I like that you customize the worlds, and don't need this, but that doesn't make it any less useful for new DMs or DMs who don't want to have to scramble to find a balanced price.
The balanced price is "spending a day woodchopping, if you are proficient with woodworking, as a day practicing a modest job. Otherwise it counts as a day practicing a poor job." The amount of wood that actually is doesn't particularly matter.
Yet again, you are incorrect. Sure, you can calculate the amount of money a person can make in a day from wood working, but that doesn't make the price of wood useless, any less than having a price for cheese is unnecessary because you can calculate how much farmers make.
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Yet again, you are incorrect. Sure, you can calculate the amount of money a person can make in a day from wood working, but that doesn't make the price of wood useless, any less than having a price for cheese is unnecessary because you can calculate how much farmers make.
The reason for having a price for cheese is in case the PCs find a wagonload of cheese in the bandit's hideout, not because it's otherwise useful to the game. Yes, it's possible that the bandits stole a lumber wagon as well, in which case it would be nice to know the value, but this is not relevant to balance; all you need for balance is "X gp of trade goods".
If you want a balance issue: cost of living rules are totally inconsistent with trade good prices. A day's rations is 2 lb and 5 sp. A day of modest lifestyle is 1 gp. A pound of flour and a chicken (which is way more than a day's food) is 2 cp.
Yet again, you are incorrect. Sure, you can calculate the amount of money a person can make in a day from wood working, but that doesn't make the price of wood useless, any less than having a price for cheese is unnecessary because you can calculate how much farmers make.
The reason for having a price for cheese is in case the PCs find a wagonload of cheese in the bandit's hideout, not because it's otherwise useful to the game.
And the reason there should be a price for wood could be the same situation, but all the cheese is wood!
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I would sell them the wood by the wagon load. A wagon load of wood might be 10s of gold pieces.
But a better approach to getting a house built is to contact the guilds after buying the land and asking them to produce a design and an estimate. Then the party only needs to agree to let them build the house and they can stay at arms length away from the details.
How much are the nails going to cost? How about the plaster for the walls? And the stone foundation to rise above the splash zone? And the fireplace and chimney?
If they deal with the guilds they don't have to worry about getting screwed by cheap materials or anything else. The guilds have a reputation to protect.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
To super roughly eyeball it, let's work backwards from a real house.
For construction lumber, IRL, google says a 2,000 sq. ft. home has about $10,000 worth of lumber. Lets pretend that house sells for $300,000. So ~3% of the house cost is lumber.
But this is D&D, wood is more plentiful, labor is cheaper, land is cheaper, and there's just way less 'other' stuff in D&D houses. Let's say that all mixes out to increase wood as a % of the total to say 15%.
DMG chapter 6 has small estates ranging from 100gp - 1,000gp. Let's go with small estate at 100gp since you want just a house.
100gp * 15% = 15 gp.
So 15 gp for lumber to build a house.
Non-construction-wise, if you're curious about other wood prices, look at the description of this pub (no need to buy as its on the landing page - look at the chart on the bottom), it has some by-pound costs of woods based on legacy publications. There's also 16 different types of non-construction woods in this pub ('non-construction' as the trees are way rarer and more expensive than traditional oaks, pines, etc used for construction).
Trade Goods are listed in the PH. Iron is one of them, listed at 1sp/pound. Iron requires some refinement, so there is processing that goes into making the good from "raw" ore. Wood is both easier to extract and can be unprocessed (logs) or processed (boards/planks, etc). I'd probably set logs at 2cp/lb and planks at 5cp/pound. But economies of scale are a thing, so buying the wood by pound is less accurate than "buying the wood for a house (that uses many pounds of wood) in this situation.
I'd recommend using the DMG Stronghold pricing found in Chapter 6, Downtime Activities. It lists the costs for both land and the cost and time to build various buildings. A simple house is probably not on the list, but you could use whats there to estimate a house's total cost. For example, if it is a very nice house on a large estate, you could say 1000gp for the land and 25,000gp for the house and grounds. A simple (but well appointed) home might be 100gp for the land and 500-1000 gp for the house (i'm saying a simple house is 10%-20% the cost of a trading post or guildhall). That would be the entire house and furnishings, not just the wood though.
I do it as 2 GP per plank, with 5 planks taking up a 5 by 5 space for the walls. Upon cutting down wood the party rolls a d20 to determine the quality of the wood, with bad quality costing 1 GP and having a lower AC, normal wood costing 2 GP, and high quality wood having an increased AC and costing up to 4 GP
I do it as 2 GP per plank, with 5 planks taking up a 5 by 5 space for the walls. Upon cutting down wood the party rolls a d20 to determine the quality of the wood, with bad quality costing 1 GP and having a lower AC, normal wood costing 2 GP, and high quality wood having an increased AC and costing up to 4 GP
2gp per plank! a small estate is only 100gp, so that's a maximum of 50 boards to make a house, assuming the land, and everything in the house and on the land is free...and the cost to build everything was also free.
you're one of those contractors that shows up after a big storm in just a wagon asking for 50% up front, aren't you.
The people getting angry in here are so funny to me. I agree with the comment that if the PH is going to give us the price of trade goods such as copper, salt, flour, etc there should be some sort of base idea for wood pricing listed to.
In any case, spot checking the PHB prices against real commodity prices shows that they're unrelated to reality.
@Auberginian - No, I didn't say whether I like the idea or not. I disagree with the assertion, which does not make it wrong. To imply so is disingenuous at best. I agree @LeviRocks is within their rights to believe whatever they wish to believe in. It is best to not insert words or intent into a post, PAW is generally clearer than PAI. ;-)
By design anything not provided by the designer (WotC) is the venue of solely the DM. And even what is provided is all applicable by the DM's whim. (Though they will need players, lest they DM for none).
But let's look at the impracticability of said price guide. What is the price of wood today? In the U.S., EU, China, Brazil, Chad, or Saudi Arabia? Each has a different market. Type of wood matters as well, there is a pretty big difference between softwoods, hardwoods, and bamboos in each of those places. What quality is the wood? Are we talking retail, wholesale, or manufacturers cost? What is the economic mobility? Can the political structure restrict trade? Who actually owns the trees? What kind of exchange system is used?
That's just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. So once again, I'll state, the price of wood, is whatever the DM states, no guide is necessary. That does not mean someone can't make such a guide, for their world and then offer to share with others.
We do have indirect indicators, though like most things with D&D prices they're a bit inconsistent; specifically, you can look at the price of manufactured goods that are in large part wood, though you'll wind up with a huge range (a torch is 1 cp and 1 lb, a club is 1 sp and 2 lb; a rowboat is 50 gp and 100 lb, which gives us a range of 1-50 cp/lb). Of course, one of those is made of firewood and the other two aren't, so I'd probably give an average estimate of 1 cp/lb for firewood and 1 sp/lb for boards.
Yes, the price will vary depending on the quality, and origin of the wood, like in the real world, but in the real world, each rowboat you buy doesn't have an asserted price. It varies depending on the type of material, quality, age, and design, and many other factors. D&D prices don't work that way. A DM can decide that the Rowboat the players want to buy is of better quality, and raise the price from 50 gp to 70 gp, but that's not how D&D prices work. It gives a number to be used as a standard price that makes sense based on all the other listed prices of items and animals, and gives a defined number for the objects price in precise amounts.
That is why in the Weapon section of the PHB, it doesn't say the price for a longbow is between 25gp and 150 gp, it gives a specific price to be based off of.
So, the reason there are even prices for objects in D&D is as a base. ANY DM CAN CHANGE ANYTHING IN D&D IF THEY WANT, THE RULEBOOKS ARE JUST GUIDELINES! Everyone who plays D&D should know this, and if you want to make a log of wood in your desert be worth 1000 gp, you can do so, but if I want a basis, a normal price for wood, like they provide for Iron, Gold, Platinum, Meat, Goats, and Cheese (and many many many other items and animals), is that a sticking point for you (du dum, crash)?
Why are you not complaining that they give a price for elephants, if you are complaining about the notion that maybe, the stuff that trees are made of should have a given price?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
It's not per bad for the game to list a price for wood. It's just not a particular significant failure, nor is it something the game should really depend on, because for most construction purposes you need to know the total price of all materials combined, not the cost of any one material, and for game purposes it rarely matters whether 100 gp worth of wood weighs half a ton or ten tons, in either case PCs aren't carrying it about.
I"m not complaining they gave any price, just like I'm not complaining they didn't give any price. Neither does any good, nor cannot be fixed or adjusted by the DM. Which is still my stance, the DM determines everything in their world, as Rule 0 dictates... Cause if the DM thinks a character should have something, they will get it...
I've done Conan campaigns where Steel was the currency, I've done campaigns based upon Asian Mythology where clay discs were the currency, I've done Lost Tribe campaigns were everything was bartered and I've done campaigns right from the rules and sourcebooks. All of them have plus and minuses.
What I do know, is that characters, just like players will tend to make decisions based upon value on time and threat of well being. So if adventuring does not provide a significant increase in the rate of acquisition of assets, then the characters will need a threat of well being to get them to adventure. Whether that adventure involves wilderness, caves, dungeons, dragons, monsters, politics, intrigue, or any other idea one can come up with doesn't matter. There needs to be a motivation to do it, to risk the present security of finances, family, and society perhaps at the cost of one's life.
Search online for a pdf called "Grain Into Gold: A Fantasy World Economy". Pages 12 & 13 should help. (The original question of the post, not the "should 5e have wood prices" discussion this has turned into.)
Okay, I like that you customize the worlds, and don't need this, but that doesn't make it any less useful for new DMs or DMs who don't want to have to scramble to find a balanced price.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The balanced price is "spending a day woodchopping, if you are proficient with woodworking, as a day practicing a modest job. Otherwise it counts as a day practicing a poor job." The amount of wood that actually is doesn't particularly matter.
Yet again, you are incorrect. Sure, you can calculate the amount of money a person can make in a day from wood working, but that doesn't make the price of wood useless, any less than having a price for cheese is unnecessary because you can calculate how much farmers make.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The reason for having a price for cheese is in case the PCs find a wagonload of cheese in the bandit's hideout, not because it's otherwise useful to the game. Yes, it's possible that the bandits stole a lumber wagon as well, in which case it would be nice to know the value, but this is not relevant to balance; all you need for balance is "X gp of trade goods".
If you want a balance issue: cost of living rules are totally inconsistent with trade good prices. A day's rations is 2 lb and 5 sp. A day of modest lifestyle is 1 gp. A pound of flour and a chicken (which is way more than a day's food) is 2 cp.
And the reason there should be a price for wood could be the same situation, but all the cheese is wood!
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I haven't read all the responses, but a few.
I would sell them the wood by the wagon load. A wagon load of wood might be 10s of gold pieces.
But a better approach to getting a house built is to contact the guilds after buying the land and asking them to produce a design and an estimate. Then the party only needs to agree to let them build the house and they can stay at arms length away from the details.
How much are the nails going to cost? How about the plaster for the walls? And the stone foundation to rise above the splash zone? And the fireplace and chimney?
If they deal with the guilds they don't have to worry about getting screwed by cheap materials or anything else. The guilds have a reputation to protect.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
To super roughly eyeball it, let's work backwards from a real house.
So 15 gp for lumber to build a house.
Non-construction-wise, if you're curious about other wood prices, look at the description of this pub (no need to buy as its on the landing page - look at the chart on the bottom), it has some by-pound costs of woods based on legacy publications. There's also 16 different types of non-construction woods in this pub ('non-construction' as the trees are way rarer and more expensive than traditional oaks, pines, etc used for construction).
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Trade Goods are listed in the PH. Iron is one of them, listed at 1sp/pound. Iron requires some refinement, so there is processing that goes into making the good from "raw" ore. Wood is both easier to extract and can be unprocessed (logs) or processed (boards/planks, etc). I'd probably set logs at 2cp/lb and planks at 5cp/pound. But economies of scale are a thing, so buying the wood by pound is less accurate than "buying the wood for a house (that uses many pounds of wood) in this situation.
I'd recommend using the DMG Stronghold pricing found in Chapter 6, Downtime Activities. It lists the costs for both land and the cost and time to build various buildings. A simple house is probably not on the list, but you could use whats there to estimate a house's total cost. For example, if it is a very nice house on a large estate, you could say 1000gp for the land and 25,000gp for the house and grounds. A simple (but well appointed) home might be 100gp for the land and 500-1000 gp for the house (i'm saying a simple house is 10%-20% the cost of a trading post or guildhall). That would be the entire house and furnishings, not just the wood though.
You realize that this thread is a year old?
Seems like someone asked the question here again 6 days ago...sorry if I don't vet the OP date on every thread that bumps.
I do it as 2 GP per plank, with 5 planks taking up a 5 by 5 space for the walls. Upon cutting down wood the party rolls a d20 to determine the quality of the wood, with bad quality costing 1 GP and having a lower AC, normal wood costing 2 GP, and high quality wood having an increased AC and costing up to 4 GP
2gp per plank! a small estate is only 100gp, so that's a maximum of 50 boards to make a house, assuming the land, and everything in the house and on the land is free...and the cost to build everything was also free.
you're one of those contractors that shows up after a big storm in just a wagon asking for 50% up front, aren't you.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
The people getting angry in here are so funny to me. I agree with the comment that if the PH is going to give us the price of trade goods such as copper, salt, flour, etc there should be some sort of base idea for wood pricing listed to.
I found this reddit post that did some decent math that I use as my basis! https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/ajpvkx/the_value_of_wood_as_a_trade_good/ and I think there's a fairly productive conversation going on in it.