A part of my campaign I have the players moving downriver on a raft in some cases there will be combat (Hawk, Blood Hawks, Crocodile) and other times there will be rough rapids and rocks to maneuver around. oh, there is a waterfall at the end but that's not too important. I looked around and I have not seen rules for tiny craft outside of movement and capacity. Since there is going to be some action on the raft I wanted to try to factor in balance (combat-related) and strength (steering and sudden stopping) so I put some rules together and I'd wonder if anyone could give some feedback or suggestions for improvement. Also, I could just be overthinking this and nothing really needs to be done and just play by the standard rules.
Movement Avoidance (example rocks or fallen trees)
The player(s) can push off with the oar(s) (Group Check Strength(Athletics) check DC 15 to avoid object) The player upfront could try to push off the rock with their oar(s) (Str(Athletics) DC 15 or you lose balance; On a fail roll a base Strength check DC 10 saving throw a failure results dropping the oar in the water or it breaks).
The person(s) who mans the ore(s) could lean into the rocks (Individual Dex(Acrobatics) Save DC 10-15 depending on the size of the object or lose balance, and the boat takes damage)
Maintaining Balance
A player can tie themself to the raft (advantage on checks to keep balance could balance disadvantage on combat rolls.
If a player loses their balance and is on an edge of the raft then they could fall off unless you can make a DC 15 Dex(Acrobatics) saving throw. The player could grab an ally to reduce the DC to 10, but then the ally also needs to make a DC 10 Str(Athletics) save or lose balance. If the ally grabs at the player then the player DC is only 10 but the ally is 15.
Losing Balance in the center of the raft results in playing being prone.
Combat
The player is at a disadvantage since swinging an item or using a ranged weapon that requires precise aiming would be a disadvantage on rolls. If the player is tied down as explained above to maintain balance then normal attack rolls.
On critical fails the player can lose their balance and then either fall off the raft or fall prone depending on the location on the raft.
I’d be hesitant to let the oars break, because, law of averages, after enough checks, they all will. Dropping them at least will let the players have the option to recover them. Unless they have the means to make new ones, or you want to really make things tense as time goes on, which could be pretty cool.
I like the idea of tying themselves to the raft. I’d say it lets them avoid Checks to fall off. But I’d say that is giving themselves the restrained condition. They can’t fall off, but can’t move from that square without spending an action to untie. Gives them an interesting tactical choice — melee types can’t get in position, squishies can’t run away. The DCs for the checks, I’m guessing you have them set appropriately for the party level, those numbers could be easy or hard depending on that. Is falling off a DEX save or an acrobatics check? Those are different things. You should be clear up front so players can plan accordingly. Ditto the str or athletics check from an ally.
Giving them disadvantage on attack rolls is a big penalty. It makes sense, but it will make the fights much, much harder. Just plan for that accordingly. Or maybe have them make a DEX save (an easy one) at the start of their turn, make the save, no disadvantage. Critical fails are a house rule in terms of saves and skill checks, just so you realize that. Because a lot of people don’t. And I thought you already said they fall off or fall down if they fail, so do they double fall down?
I’d be hesitant to let the oars break, because, law of averages, after enough checks, they all will. Dropping them at least will let the players have the option to recover them. Unless they have the means to make new ones, or you want to really make things tense as time goes on, which could be pretty cool.
I like the idea of tying themselves to the raft. I’d say it lets them avoid Checks to fall off. But I’d say that is giving themselves the restrained condition. They can’t fall off, but can’t move from that square without spending an action to untie. Gives them an interesting tactical choice — melee types can’t get in position, squishies can’t run away. The DCs for the checks, I’m guessing you have them set appropriately for the party level, those numbers could be easy or hard depending on that. Is falling off a DEX save or an acrobatics check? Those are different things. You should be clear up front so players can plan accordingly. Ditto the str or athletics check from an ally.
Giving them disadvantage on attack rolls is a big penalty. It makes sense, but it will make the fights much, much harder. Just plan for that accordingly. Or maybe have them make a DEX save (an easy one) at the start of their turn, make the save, no disadvantage. Critical fails are a house rule in terms of saves and skill checks, just so you realize that. Because a lot of people don’t. And I thought you already said they fall off or fall down if they fail, so do they double fall down?
Valid point on the oars and the breaking condition I was taking it from the perspective of my game where the raft (a bunch of logs roped together) as well as the oar or pole coming from a tree branch(s). But you are right and they could break more frequently so I will stick with the dropping.
It's funny you mention the tie-down with restraint as I had that idea originally and thought it would be too restrictive but reading it your way does make that idea more sound. I am reviewing the Base Strength vs Strength(Athletics) and the Base Dexterity vs Dexterity(Acrobatics) roll to determine which one would be best suited. Though typing this out maybe if the player has proficiency in Athletics or Acrobatics I may allow that stat to be used instead of the base skill check.
I do like the pre-Dex save to determine balance impacting combat disadvantage. I was using a real-world example of times on boats casting with fishing rode while the craft was moving and those subtle movements can throw you off your cast hence the auto disadvantage. I think I would have noticed that there was more missing than hits especially since the monsters would not be hampered but such restrictions.
Yeah, for years on end back to 2e I've used critical fails on checks well as attacks, but it is something to think about for this type of activity.
I might have 'double' though the issue and fail usually is fall off or fall prone so yeah, no double fall down. Good catch.
Thanks for the feedback. It was really helpful. Of course, I'll have all these rules in place and the party will instead some why and decide to walk.
Kudos! That's a really interesting idea. Having dynamic battlegrounds always improves the fun.
It's also a great use for the underused Vehicles (Water) proficiency.
I suggest a pre-voyage scene about rigging the raft. A flubbed Vehicles (Water) roll here might cause grief many km downriver when rigging becomes untied. A bad Woodworker's Tools roll might mean part of the raft becomes unattached at a bad part of the rapids.
Also, force the players to make choices and pay costs. A friend is falling off the raft? You can grab them, but it costs you your Reaction. On your turn, you can attack cautiously (disadvantage on attack roll) to keep your footing (advantage on DEX roll to stay upright). A hawk is coming in to attack you but the bale of expensive silks just fell off the raft - which do you deal with? If you are the one on the steering oar, do you steer or fight? You can't do both.
Steering the raft would, in my opinion, be STR (Vehicles (Water)) rolls. Bad rolls mean the raft either hits obstacles and loses HP or moves somewhere bad on the water and causes penalties to further rolls until the raft is steered back on course. Hitting obstacles means everyone on the raft has to make DEX (Acrobatcs) rolls or fall prone (maybe if they are already prone and fail the roll, that's when they fall off the raft).
I also have this idea of making a raft out of popsicle sticks and twine and using that for the battle, but that has to wait for when lockdowns end.
Kudos! That's a really interesting idea. Having dynamic battlegrounds always improves the fun.
It's also a great use for the underused Vehicles (Water) proficiency.
I suggest a pre-voyage scene about rigging the raft. A flubbed Vehicles (Water) roll here might cause grief many km downriver when rigging becomes untied. A bad Woodworker's Tools roll might mean part of the raft becomes unattached at a bad part of the rapids.
Also, force the players to make choices and pay costs. A friend is falling off the raft? You can grab them, but it costs you your Reaction. On your turn, you can attack cautiously (disadvantage on attack roll) to keep your footing (advantage on DEX roll to stay upright). A hawk is coming in to attack you but the bale of expensive silks just fell off the raft - which do you deal with? If you are the one on the steering oar, do you steer or fight? You can't do both.
Steering the raft would, in my opinion, be STR (Vehicles (Water)) rolls. Bad rolls mean the raft either hits obstacles and loses HP or moves somewhere bad on the water and causes penalties to further rolls until the raft is steered back on course. Hitting obstacles means everyone on the raft has to make DEX (Acrobatcs) rolls or fall prone (maybe if they are already prone and fail the roll, that's when they fall off the raft).
I also have this idea of making a raft out of popsicle sticks and twine and using that for the battle, but that has to wait for when lockdowns end.
I completely forgot about Vehicle proficiency. Did you pull that Strength ability check based on an entry in players or dmg because I just saw the Vehicles proficiency but nothing which to use or was this just based on my raft description?
Though I know for a fact none of them have that but asking for a roll from time to time during the length of the trip might be something to look at as long as I can justify with the positive/negative weights out to be. The players will be given a raft by a Lizardfolk tribe so it will be all set up but on the off chance it takes damage during combat, it might be a good idea to know how to handle repairs if they decide to act on that.
There is some good stuff you mentioned as well about the player reactions in which I had something worked out similar so that helps reinforce the possible use.
The player(s) can push off with the oar(s) check water conditions to avoid an object.
Strength Check
Group Check(Strength)
Hitting an object each individual Dexterity(Acrobatics) depending on water conditions and the size of the object or lose balance and are rendered prone or could fall off the boat, and the boat takes damage*. On a fail roll, a base Strength check DC 8 a failure results dropping the oar.
*Your Dexterity (Acrobatics) check covers your attempt to stay on your feet in a tricky situation, such as when you're trying to run across a sheet of ice, balance on a tightrope, or stay upright on a rocking ship's deck. (PHB)
Maintaining Balance
A player can tie themself to the raft (advantage on checks to keep balance could balance disadvantage on combat rolls.
A player can tie themself to the raft which will void falling off the raft checks. The player can move from that square by spending an action to untie.
Losing balance individual Dexterity(Acrobatics) depending on water conditions and the size of the object or lose balance and are rendered prone or could fall off the boat. On a fail roll, a base Strength check DC 8 a failure results dropping their weapon.
The player could grab an ally whose balance is lost to reduce the DC by 5, based on water conditions. The Ally needs to make a DC 10 Dexterity(Acrobatics) check or lose balance themself. Preforming this costs the Ally their reaction for their next turn.
Losing Balance in the center of the raft results in playing being prone.
Combat
The player makes a Dexterity(Acrobatics), based on water conditions. On a failure, the player is on a disadvantage attack rolls with melee and ranged weapon.
On fail, the player can lose their balance and then either fall off the raft or fall prone depending on the location on the raft. (See balance rules.)
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A part of my campaign I have the players moving downriver on a raft in some cases there will be combat (Hawk, Blood Hawks, Crocodile) and other times there will be rough rapids and rocks to maneuver around. oh, there is a waterfall at the end but that's not too important. I looked around and I have not seen rules for tiny craft outside of movement and capacity. Since there is going to be some action on the raft I wanted to try to factor in balance (combat-related) and strength (steering and sudden stopping) so I put some rules together and I'd wonder if anyone could give some feedback or suggestions for improvement. Also, I could just be overthinking this and nothing really needs to be done and just play by the standard rules.
Movement Avoidance (example rocks or fallen trees)
The player(s) can push off with the oar(s) (Group Check Strength(Athletics) check DC 15 to avoid object)
The player upfront could try to push off the rock with their oar(s) (Str(Athletics) DC 15 or you lose balance; On a fail roll a base Strength check DC 10 saving throw a failure results dropping the oar in the water or it breaks).
The person(s) who mans the ore(s) could lean into the rocks (Individual Dex(Acrobatics) Save DC 10-15 depending on the size of the object or lose balance, and the boat takes damage)
Maintaining Balance
A player can tie themself to the raft (advantage on checks to keep balance could balance disadvantage on combat rolls.
If a player loses their balance and is on an edge of the raft then they could fall off unless you can make a DC 15 Dex(Acrobatics) saving throw. The player could grab an ally to reduce the DC to 10, but then the ally also needs to make a DC 10 Str(Athletics) save or lose balance. If the ally grabs at the player then the player DC is only 10 but the ally is 15.
Losing Balance in the center of the raft results in playing being prone.
Combat
The player is at a disadvantage since swinging an item or using a ranged weapon that requires precise aiming would be a disadvantage on rolls. If the player is tied down as explained above to maintain balance then normal attack rolls.
On critical fails the player can lose their balance and then either fall off the raft or fall prone depending on the location on the raft.
I’d be hesitant to let the oars break, because, law of averages, after enough checks, they all will. Dropping them at least will let the players have the option to recover them. Unless they have the means to make new ones, or you want to really make things tense as time goes on, which could be pretty cool.
I like the idea of tying themselves to the raft. I’d say it lets them avoid Checks to fall off. But I’d say that is giving themselves the restrained condition. They can’t fall off, but can’t move from that square without spending an action to untie. Gives them an interesting tactical choice — melee types can’t get in position, squishies can’t run away.
The DCs for the checks, I’m guessing you have them set appropriately for the party level, those numbers could be easy or hard depending on that.
Is falling off a DEX save or an acrobatics check? Those are different things. You should be clear up front so players can plan accordingly. Ditto the str or athletics check from an ally.
Giving them disadvantage on attack rolls is a big penalty. It makes sense, but it will make the fights much, much harder. Just plan for that accordingly. Or maybe have them make a DEX save (an easy one) at the start of their turn, make the save, no disadvantage.
Critical fails are a house rule in terms of saves and skill checks, just so you realize that. Because a lot of people don’t. And I thought you already said they fall off or fall down if they fail, so do they double fall down?
Valid point on the oars and the breaking condition I was taking it from the perspective of my game where the raft (a bunch of logs roped together) as well as the oar or pole coming from a tree branch(s). But you are right and they could break more frequently so I will stick with the dropping.
It's funny you mention the tie-down with restraint as I had that idea originally and thought it would be too restrictive but reading it your way does make that idea more sound. I am reviewing the Base Strength vs Strength(Athletics) and the Base Dexterity vs Dexterity(Acrobatics) roll to determine which one would be best suited. Though typing this out maybe if the player has proficiency in Athletics or Acrobatics I may allow that stat to be used instead of the base skill check.
I do like the pre-Dex save to determine balance impacting combat disadvantage. I was using a real-world example of times on boats casting with fishing rode while the craft was moving and those subtle movements can throw you off your cast hence the auto disadvantage. I think I would have noticed that there was more missing than hits especially since the monsters would not be hampered but such restrictions.
Yeah, for years on end back to 2e I've used critical fails on checks well as attacks, but it is something to think about for this type of activity.
I might have 'double' though the issue and fail usually is fall off or fall prone so yeah, no double fall down. Good catch.
Thanks for the feedback. It was really helpful. Of course, I'll have all these rules in place and the party will instead some why and decide to walk.
Kudos! That's a really interesting idea. Having dynamic battlegrounds always improves the fun.
It's also a great use for the underused Vehicles (Water) proficiency.
I suggest a pre-voyage scene about rigging the raft. A flubbed Vehicles (Water) roll here might cause grief many km downriver when rigging becomes untied. A bad Woodworker's Tools roll might mean part of the raft becomes unattached at a bad part of the rapids.
Also, force the players to make choices and pay costs. A friend is falling off the raft? You can grab them, but it costs you your Reaction. On your turn, you can attack cautiously (disadvantage on attack roll) to keep your footing (advantage on DEX roll to stay upright). A hawk is coming in to attack you but the bale of expensive silks just fell off the raft - which do you deal with? If you are the one on the steering oar, do you steer or fight? You can't do both.
Steering the raft would, in my opinion, be STR (Vehicles (Water)) rolls. Bad rolls mean the raft either hits obstacles and loses HP or moves somewhere bad on the water and causes penalties to further rolls until the raft is steered back on course. Hitting obstacles means everyone on the raft has to make DEX (Acrobatcs) rolls or fall prone (maybe if they are already prone and fail the roll, that's when they fall off the raft).
I also have this idea of making a raft out of popsicle sticks and twine and using that for the battle, but that has to wait for when lockdowns end.
I completely forgot about Vehicle proficiency. Did you pull that Strength ability check based on an entry in players or dmg because I just saw the Vehicles proficiency but nothing which to use or was this just based on my raft description?
Though I know for a fact none of them have that but asking for a roll from time to time during the length of the trip might be something to look at as long as I can justify with the positive/negative weights out to be. The players will be given a raft by a Lizardfolk tribe so it will be all set up but on the off chance it takes damage during combat, it might be a good idea to know how to handle repairs if they decide to act on that.
There is some good stuff you mentioned as well about the player reactions in which I had something worked out similar so that helps reinforce the possible use.
Thanks for the feedback!
So this is what I put together.
Movement
Water Condition / Current (Rowboat)
Task
DC
Movement
Exhaustion
Very Easy
5
15 ft
Easy
10
15 ft
Moderate
15
20 ft
Hard
20
25 ft
3 fail
Very Hard
25
30 ft
2 fail
Nearly Impossible
30
35 ft
1 fail
Movement Avoidance
The player(s) can push off with the oar(s) check water conditions to avoid an object.
Strength Check
Group Check(Strength)
Hitting an object each individual Dexterity(Acrobatics) depending on water conditions and the size of the object or lose balance and are rendered prone or could fall off the boat, and the boat takes damage*. On a fail roll, a base Strength check DC 8 a failure results dropping the oar.
*Your Dexterity (Acrobatics) check covers your attempt to stay on your feet in a tricky situation, such as when you're trying to run across a sheet of ice, balance on a tightrope, or stay upright on a rocking ship's deck. (PHB)
Maintaining Balance
A player can tie themself to the raft (advantage on checks to keep balance could balance disadvantage on combat rolls.
A player can tie themself to the raft which will void falling off the raft checks. The player can move from that square by spending an action to untie.
Losing balance individual Dexterity(Acrobatics) depending on water conditions and the size of the object or lose balance and are rendered prone or could fall off the boat. On a fail roll, a base Strength check DC 8 a failure results dropping their weapon.
The player could grab an ally whose balance is lost to reduce the DC by 5, based on water conditions. The Ally needs to make a DC 10 Dexterity(Acrobatics) check or lose balance themself. Preforming this costs the Ally their reaction for their next turn.
Losing Balance in the center of the raft results in playing being prone.
Combat
The player makes a Dexterity(Acrobatics), based on water conditions. On a failure, the player is on a disadvantage attack rolls with melee and ranged weapon.
On fail, the player can lose their balance and then either fall off the raft or fall prone depending on the location on the raft. (See balance rules.)