At level two, I want to give my players a cursed artefact that contains a Djinn. The Djinn will act friendly towards the party and help them for two full levels, and will even grant them three wishes a la Disney.
At level four, I am going to send my players into a dungeon. I will send them there Mines of Moria style, where the dungeon is the only way to get to the next area. If the players have any wishes left and they wish for the Djinn to transport them, they will still end up in the dungeon, and I will explain this as the Djinn not being able to transport them due to some magical force. I will then tell them that the Djinn has got them as close as it can in an attempt to fulfil their wish, that it still counts as the use of a wish and that they must now continue the rest of the way on foot.
Either way, they will end up in a dungeon that they have no map for, and no way to navigate. Not to worry though, their friendly Djinn will pop up and tell them that he knows this place and can help them make their way through it. He will then start leading them to what they believe to be the exit. What the Djinn would be doing, though, is leading them into a trap.
The Djinn has only been pretending all that time so that it could use the party to get itself into the dungeon, where it could be freed from its curse and fully restored by the blue fire.
After leading the party into a central chamber, with a blue fire burning in the centre, the Djinn and the cursed object that he is bound to will disappear. Shortly after that, the player's characters will hear an enormous explosion as the Djinn throws himself and the object binding him into the blue flames. A blast of blue fire will fill the room, causing minor AOE damage to the party and as it does a voice like the thunder of a crackling flame will boom from all corners.
"In fire, I take form!"
Freed from his cursed object, the party will now see the pure form of the Djinn; gates will come down on the entrances and exits to the room, and the players must now fight and defeat the Djinn before they can find their way out of the camber.
After defeating the Djinn and making it out of the chamber, the party will find a series of rooms in which they can rest and recover their strength. There won't be any more monsters to fight, and they can loot the rooms for treasure if they want. The very last of these rooms will contain a platform that they can use to transport out of the dungeon, and continue towards their next objective.
What do you guys think; does this fight sound too deadly, for four, level four characters? I know that fighting a Djinn will be a deadly fight for them, but is it too much?
Three attacks each round at +9 for 2d6+5 +d6 (lightning or thunder)
Thunderwave at will - as often and as many times as they like.
Create Whirlwind to sweep around the room and gather up the party into a restrained bundle unable to make melee attacks with a DC18 strength save/check.
AC17, 161 hit points, fly 90'.
Summon up an air elemental ally once/day. Plane shift away if it looks like things are going badly.
If played properly, I don't think a party of 4 level 4s has any hope of survival. You can change or modify the creature or encounter in all sorts of ways but using the Djinni as is ... I would expect a TPK.
If you know that your party has the ability to sustain themselves in a fight, through multiple potions and/or healing, then all I would suggest is lowering its hit points to somewhere around the range where they could defeat it in 3-4 rounds. I would also lower its AC to 15, unless the group has a few +1 weapons.
As for the attacks, I would keep the damage but lowered its to hit modifier from +9 to +6, that way it has chances of missing.
You could just flavor this as the Djinn not being at peak performance after being stuck in the lamp for so long.
I would not do this. A CR11 creature can be nerfed only so much. A party of level 4 players is NOT a party of level 5+ players. At level 5, they get extra attacks. At level 5, they get powerful magic. At level 5, they get fly and haste and revivify to give them a chance of countering the creature's superior mobility. A group of level 5 characters, fresh off a long rest, with a handful of healing potions, proper tactics, and some luck, could potentially nova and create enough threat to force a djinni to flee. A group of level 4 characters... just doesn't have anything going for them. Like, best-case scenario, you've got a lore bard, a divination wizard, a battlemaster, and... some kind of striker. The lore bard and wizard can hamper the djinni enough that it might be ineffective in the first round of combat, and the battlemaster might be able to trip it, and the striker might... I don't know, grapple it or get a lucky crit in? But without the extra sneak attack damage for rogue, the extra smite damage from a paladin, the extra rage damage from barbarian, without the extra attacks, without the super-charged 3rd-level spells, there's nothing they can do TO the thing.
Best-case, it frees itself, harasses them for a round or two, and leaves them to die. You create a challenge where they need to escape the dungeon as it collapses, and they live to fight another day.
Let the players have an option to retreat (they probably won’t, players hate to retreat). Then they’ve got this traitorous djinn out there as a recurring enemy, and it will be very satisfying when they are strong enough and actually do defeat it. Also, after the djinn is released, why would it stick around to fight the PCs? Why not just float away and leave them there? It’s got nothing to gain from the fight. Maybe it would summon some CR appropriate minion on its way out. Then we’re back to the recurring enemy thing. Or it could announce to them it feels like it owes them a favor for freeing it, so it won’t kill them and now they’re even. But now the PCs need to find their way out of the dungeon on their own, and it happens to be a lair for level appropriate monsters.
Quick question: Why? Why would the Djinn attack them? It has no reason to try and murder its saviors. It'd more likely thank them and go about its business.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
There is a huge difference between level 4 and level 5. The proficiency bonus alone is the equivalent of an ASI and on top of that full casters get 3rd level spells (IMO the step from 2nd to 3rd level spells is the largest in the game), martial classes get a second attack and cantrips do double damage. The extra hitpoints will also reduce the likelyhood of being one shot.
Would there be a way of getting the players up to level 5 before this encounter? You might still want to debuff the Djinni a bit, depending on how optimized and well equiped the party is but at least can be defeated while still being essentially a Djinni.
Whilst the encounter sounds quite cool it’s not suited to level four characters and it feels a little contrived.
Three wishes is A LOT of power to give the characters. What if one of them is nice and wishes him free? Why /can’t/ they just wish to teleport to their next location?
The party is going to feel a gut punch when the djinn "betrays" them. But that was his goal in the first place =)
The djinn wants to be in the dungeon so you can have the djinn look confused as to why his transport wish didn't work. The well of power or whatever it is can be sold as the reason he can't transport, like it's drawing him to it against his will.
The gates coming down is a dick move. Let the party run if they want to. You can have the djinn be a return nemesis.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Hi, guys
At level two, I want to give my players a cursed artefact that contains a Djinn. The Djinn will act friendly towards the party and help them for two full levels, and will even grant them three wishes a la Disney.
At level four, I am going to send my players into a dungeon. I will send them there Mines of Moria style, where the dungeon is the only way to get to the next area. If the players have any wishes left and they wish for the Djinn to transport them, they will still end up in the dungeon, and I will explain this as the Djinn not being able to transport them due to some magical force. I will then tell them that the Djinn has got them as close as it can in an attempt to fulfil their wish, that it still counts as the use of a wish and that they must now continue the rest of the way on foot.
Either way, they will end up in a dungeon that they have no map for, and no way to navigate. Not to worry though, their friendly Djinn will pop up and tell them that he knows this place and can help them make their way through it. He will then start leading them to what they believe to be the exit. What the Djinn would be doing, though, is leading them into a trap.
The Djinn has only been pretending all that time so that it could use the party to get itself into the dungeon, where it could be freed from its curse and fully restored by the blue fire.
After leading the party into a central chamber, with a blue fire burning in the centre, the Djinn and the cursed object that he is bound to will disappear. Shortly after that, the player's characters will hear an enormous explosion as the Djinn throws himself and the object binding him into the blue flames. A blast of blue fire will fill the room, causing minor AOE damage to the party and as it does a voice like the thunder of a crackling flame will boom from all corners.
"In fire, I take form!"
Freed from his cursed object, the party will now see the pure form of the Djinn; gates will come down on the entrances and exits to the room, and the players must now fight and defeat the Djinn before they can find their way out of the camber.
After defeating the Djinn and making it out of the chamber, the party will find a series of rooms in which they can rest and recover their strength. There won't be any more monsters to fight, and they can loot the rooms for treasure if they want. The very last of these rooms will contain a platform that they can use to transport out of the dungeon, and continue towards their next objective.
What do you guys think; does this fight sound too deadly, for four, level four characters? I know that fighting a Djinn will be a deadly fight for them, but is it too much?
Foxes XD
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I just looked up the stats on a Djinni.
CR11.
Three attacks each round at +9 for 2d6+5 +d6 (lightning or thunder)
Thunderwave at will - as often and as many times as they like.
Create Whirlwind to sweep around the room and gather up the party into a restrained bundle unable to make melee attacks with a DC18 strength save/check.
AC17, 161 hit points, fly 90'.
Summon up an air elemental ally once/day. Plane shift away if it looks like things are going badly.
If played properly, I don't think a party of 4 level 4s has any hope of survival. You can change or modify the creature or encounter in all sorts of ways but using the Djinni as is ... I would expect a TPK.
Multiattack. The djinni makes three scimitar attacks.
Scimitar. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 12 (2d6 + 5) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) lightning or thunder damage (djinni's choice).
Id say with +9 to hit and 45 damage per turn he could quiet easily kill all 4 before they drop him.
Along with AC 17, 161 HP and a fly speed might even be able to do it without ever even getting hit...
I do like the sound of the story, maybe just needs the Djinn scaled back.
All posts come with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
If you know that your party has the ability to sustain themselves in a fight, through multiple potions and/or healing, then all I would suggest is lowering its hit points to somewhere around the range where they could defeat it in 3-4 rounds. I would also lower its AC to 15, unless the group has a few +1 weapons.
As for the attacks, I would keep the damage but lowered its to hit modifier from +9 to +6, that way it has chances of missing.
You could just flavor this as the Djinn not being at peak performance after being stuck in the lamp for so long.
Hopefully this helps.
I would not do this. A CR11 creature can be nerfed only so much. A party of level 4 players is NOT a party of level 5+ players. At level 5, they get extra attacks. At level 5, they get powerful magic. At level 5, they get fly and haste and revivify to give them a chance of countering the creature's superior mobility. A group of level 5 characters, fresh off a long rest, with a handful of healing potions, proper tactics, and some luck, could potentially nova and create enough threat to force a djinni to flee. A group of level 4 characters... just doesn't have anything going for them. Like, best-case scenario, you've got a lore bard, a divination wizard, a battlemaster, and... some kind of striker. The lore bard and wizard can hamper the djinni enough that it might be ineffective in the first round of combat, and the battlemaster might be able to trip it, and the striker might... I don't know, grapple it or get a lucky crit in? But without the extra sneak attack damage for rogue, the extra smite damage from a paladin, the extra rage damage from barbarian, without the extra attacks, without the super-charged 3rd-level spells, there's nothing they can do TO the thing.
Best-case, it frees itself, harasses them for a round or two, and leaves them to die. You create a challenge where they need to escape the dungeon as it collapses, and they live to fight another day.
Why make the Gates come down?
Let the players have an option to retreat (they probably won’t, players hate to retreat). Then they’ve got this traitorous djinn out there as a recurring enemy, and it will be very satisfying when they are strong enough and actually do defeat it.
Also, after the djinn is released, why would it stick around to fight the PCs? Why not just float away and leave them there? It’s got nothing to gain from the fight. Maybe it would summon some CR appropriate minion on its way out. Then we’re back to the recurring enemy thing.
Or it could announce to them it feels like it owes them a favor for freeing it, so it won’t kill them and now they’re even. But now the PCs need to find their way out of the dungeon on their own, and it happens to be a lair for level appropriate monsters.
Why not make it a different more CR levelled creature that has been trapped as a Djinn Jafar style. Mage, Night Hag etc.
so it is a Djinn when they find it but when it breaks the curse it reverts to type.
Quick question: Why? Why would the Djinn attack them? It has no reason to try and murder its saviors. It'd more likely thank them and go about its business.
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
There is a huge difference between level 4 and level 5. The proficiency bonus alone is the equivalent of an ASI and on top of that full casters get 3rd level spells (IMO the step from 2nd to 3rd level spells is the largest in the game), martial classes get a second attack and cantrips do double damage. The extra hitpoints will also reduce the likelyhood of being one shot.
Would there be a way of getting the players up to level 5 before this encounter? You might still want to debuff the Djinni a bit, depending on how optimized and well equiped the party is but at least can be defeated while still being essentially a Djinni.
Whilst the encounter sounds quite cool it’s not suited to level four characters and it feels a little contrived.
Three wishes is A LOT of power to give the characters. What if one of them is nice and wishes him free? Why /can’t/ they just wish to teleport to their next location?
Maybe give the weakened djinn the statistics of an air elemental, but with the djinn's mental scores?
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
The party is going to feel a gut punch when the djinn "betrays" them. But that was his goal in the first place =)
The djinn wants to be in the dungeon so you can have the djinn look confused as to why his transport wish didn't work. The well of power or whatever it is can be sold as the reason he can't transport, like it's drawing him to it against his will.
The gates coming down is a dick move. Let the party run if they want to. You can have the djinn be a return nemesis.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
It shouldn't be too bad, a while ago I threw an aboleth and a vampire at 2 level 6 players and it didn't go too bad. They even survived
Because you let them.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale