I do think the dungeon as it's written has some logical inconsistencies in its arrangement that require further explanation.
For example, we know from the introduction that the kobold occupation is relatively recent. And we know from Yusdrayl that they've occupied the areas around the entrance for at least a month since they met with the previous human adventure party. Yet that party apparently fought and defeated goblins in the entrance tower. How did those goblins get there? And how is it that the goblins can get in and out to trade magic fruit at Oakhurst if they are at war with the kobolds. And why would the kobolds then keep their precious dragon both far from their own guards and right on the edge of the goblin territory.
Of course, I'm sure we can all come up with a reasonable story to explain all of this, but that ought to be in the introductory backstory. If a module requires a detailed reading of all of the encounters and the construction of a sensible narrative to explain it all, it makes me wonder how much prep time this is going to save me.
5e adventures seem like more of writing workshop than previous editions. Many older adventures seemed easier to start with less prep, however, I think 5e encourages more improvisation.
I can’t remember where I read a cool narrative that solved some of the apparent inconsistencies, but I do remember that the ravine was a “back entrance” to the sunless citadel for the goblins. The narrative I read explained that there is cave mouth that exits from the ravine cavern further down the way.
In my narrative, I place the ravine of the Sunless Citadel south west of Oakhurst and Northwest of Neverwinter. The caves that exit from the ravine are much closer to the coast, and are not too far from a protected cove that might have been used for smuggling at one time....
I am very curious about the tunnel leading into the underdark behind Yusdrayl’s throne room. It seems like there is a potentially interesting adventure deep into Kobold territory, and considering how popular Meepo is, I have considered putting some real though into developing a Kobold story line behind Yusdrayl moving into the Citadel.
There is another tunnel into the underdark in the lower level of the citadel past Balsags room. I have thought about the menacing things that could come out of that tunnel, and think it could be a good way for the Drow to come in and snatch unsuspecting characters on their way back out of the dungeon, and transition them right into the jail cell at the beginning of Out of the Abyss.
Encouraging improvisation is fine, but I still need a foundation to improvise on. If I just make stuff up as it comes along in the adventure, I'll end up improvising myself into a corner.
I think I'll go with the goblins occupying the whole of citadel until the kobolds show up to displace them. The previous adventuring party turn up just in time to turn things in the kobolds' favour. The dragon is taken by Balsag in a recent raid, while Meepo hid. By that point the dragon cage would be at the back of the kobold territory.
Encouraging improvisation is fine, but I still need a foundation to improvise on. If I just make stuff up as it comes along in the adventure, I'll end up improvising myself into a corner.
I think I'll go with the goblins occupying the whole of citadel until the kobolds show up to displace them. The previous adventuring party turn up just in time to turn things in the kobolds' favour. The dragon is taken by Balsag in a recent raid, while Meepo hid. By that point the dragon cage would be at the back of the kobold territory.
That sounds like a good foundation for the Kobolds. I like how you put the dragon in the back of Kobold territory, but that crafty Balsag came from a direction that the Kobolds were not expecting, Meepo hid, and now he is ashamed, but wants a chance to redeem himself. Cool.
Any suggestions for playing the Hobgoblins?
I’m guessing that they are relatively recent additions to the goblin clan, and they have upset the previously established order. Before the Hobgoblins got there, perhaps Belak had a stronger influence over the goblin tribe, and a better relationship with their previous chief. 5e Hobgoblins seem much more interesting than previous editions, but maybe I have never given the hobgoblin enough attention before. I really like the idea of the warrior culture of the Hobgoblin.
Cool. Because one of my players is playing a druid, I think I'll connect her to Belak in some way. The connection between vampires and the Gulthias tree hasn't escaped my notice, but I don't want to pre-plan too much as I'm expecting that they'll jump straight into the next adventure once they've cleared the citadel.
I haven't given much thought to the hobgoblins yet. I just assumed they were an integral part of the settlement, but there might be some good material there.
Another thought is that after the kobolds won their initial victory they pushed the goblins further back. But this left them overstretched and allowed Balsag to break through with a strike team and steal their dragon. (According to the text that this was about a week ago - but I might make it more recent to explain Meepo's current demeanour.) They have now pulled their people together to more effectively defend themselves. This also gives an explanation for why Yusdrayl hasn't used the dragon door key herself: they haven't discovered the dragon door yet.
Does the Gulthias Tree grant Belak some spells like animate dead? I can’t figure out how he would be controlling the skeletons down on the grove level based on the abilities he is listed with. I thought about putting the Night Caller whistle in his inventory instead of locked inside the shrine, which could account for his skeleton helpers.
Also, any thoughts about freeing the enthralled characters? Do you think a Greater Restoration would be sufficient?
How much information about the Gulthias Tree is included in the Curse of Strahd?
Also, any thoughts about freeing the enthralled characters? Do you think a Greater Restoration would be sufficient?
That is an interesting question, and one that I have been wondering for the sake of the greater reward for the adventurers. I don't think it is possible based on the description of the Thrall and on Belak's comments about those players.
Speaking on the inconsistencies, I am prepping this adventure and trying to reconcile being attacked by the Wyrmling, and saving Meepo and the Wyrmling alive to return it. Lets say that my part simply kills the dragon, which I think very possible (we have played together for about 3 years, they will totally just kill it), how do I get the players out past the Kobolds? If Meepo lives he will likely tell the others that we killed their dragon, and then the kobolds should attack.
The adventure never gives any content about that other than if the dragon is returned there is a possible reward. Otherwise, you just get the aftermath.
Can anyone else lend insight on how they have successfully DM'd this situation?
Like some DM's I've been though the adventure several times now. Mostly as a player. Last saturday my players made it back to Oakhurst for shopping and are now on the road towards Brindoll and Blasingdell. Their current tour is my way of getting them to feel the size of Elsir Vale. Get invested in some of the villages along the way. So that when Red Hand of Doom begins they have more incentive to work hard to safe it.
Sunless Citadel is ideal for newcomers, both players and DM's alike. It is fairly straightforward with a small village of Oakhurst and a handful of NPC's. All quest hooks eventually lead to the Citadel for a linear dungeon crawl. However there is still space for social interactions and to show there is no black & white clear evul in the world. Just like any module, there are issues that need to be addressed. It really depends on the kind of adventure/campaign you're running and make it fit as such. Personally I enjoy reading modules and trying to puzzle a work around to tie it all together. Look at possible issues and deal with it, but also looking at the possibilities and expand on those.
Since my campaign has Red Hand of Doom and Tiamat at its core the Dragon Cult plays a prominent role. In my setting the goblins were there raiding the place and working with Belak while maintaining some distance. The hobgoblins were sent by the Red Hand, with the white wyrm, to take over. Safe guarding the wyrm for a possible ritual down the line and also making sure a white dragon is in play since RHOD doesn't have one. Grendl the Shaman was annoyed to lose control over her goblins causing some inner struggle and power play potential there. Eventually the kobolds, under Yusdrayl's command, enter the Citadel since she thinks to be the right heirs of calling this home. Naturally a war between the two groups started. During the struggles the kobolds took control over the white wyrm and is now being used as a pawn of power between the warring groups. Meaning the hobgoblins, with the bugbears using the goblins in a counter attack too get the wyrm back on their side where it originally came from. The cleric in my group did insight on Yusdrayl to learn that she wasn't telling the truth when claiming the dragon was hers. She believes all dragon related things belong to kobolds, but there was more at play. This setup allowed for a lot of social encounters instead of just being a murder hobo. Due to the power struggle the factions didn't have the strength to terrorize the region making it quite peaceful for Oakhurst. With one faction gone how would that situation change? Lots of options. Then once they get to lvl 6-10 into RHOD the bad guys/commanders can make reference to what has happened as well regarding the Wyrm. Same for Forge of Fury where the Duergar will use the Underdark route to travel across the Elsir Vale and supply the Red Hand Horde with crafted armors. Depending on how players deal with that there can be remarks/tie ins as well during RHOD itself.
Oakhurst I didn't alter all that much. I find the original quest hook of the "missing Hucrele children" to be a fairly weak starting point. There is a paladin with his ranger buddy that came through town. Looks like there is already an adventuring party on the case. Why would the players care? So I altered that into the children having run away to finally live the adventurer's dream. Having left a note behind for the mother who is now very worried. They haven't returned in a week or two and wants the group to see how it all turned out. Next to that is also the potential quest hook of mysterious deaths around the farms.
This is a very fun, optional questhook, to work into the story. It has so much more interesting potential. I turned it into an investigation/CSI Oakhurst moment. It also works into the reason of Belak using the goblins to sell the fruits to people. But I have some issues with that aspect. Belak's reason is to spread the seeds of Gulthias Tree and gradually infest the area with Bligh Twights. You can have the livestock sporadically die under mysterious circumstances at night. With small penetration wounds that have some wood splinters here and there. Some child snuck out of bed, looked outside the window and was able to see small creatures moving through the fields. But the parents dismissed it since...she's just a child. I had a firbolg ranger speak with the cow Betsy to get a vague description and a general direction this creature moved towards. You can then also tie in Sir Braford to have been sent by his order to investigate. In his area the Twig blights had already spread too and started occasionally killing people in the woods. His investigation led to asking questions around Oakhurst and move towards the Citadel as well. The constable gets bothered by the farmer collective and is under pressure to solve it, but her guards/hunters are pretty low trained and thus unsuited for the job. You can add a chase scene if your players investigate at night and see a few twigs appear from the treeline etc. Lots of fun and interesting starting points imo.
However Belak and the fruit. Apparently he sends out the goblins to sell the fruit. Selling the fruit brings in enough money for the druid and to have enough profit the goblins no longer raid merchant convoys. Lack of attacks can be explained due to the war conflict with the kobolds. Those lizards also control the first, entry, part of the Citadel. How would goblins even move through kobold territory just to sell a fruit? How would the goblins sell captured players back to town in similar fashion? In my opinion the sales of fruits stopped when the kobolds arrived, but by then enough blighted seeds had been spread to expand naturally of its own. As for trading back captured players I don't think the goblins even do that. They didn't return Erky who has been there for months. Braford and Hucrele were taken down on Belak's orders while the son of Hucrele and the ranger were killed. That change probably occurred, because of the arrival of Hob Goblins in my setting that added a different system.
That leaves Meepo. I'm not a fan of sniveling weaklings. Not sure how my players would interact there was no real plan in place. Two players ran in ready to kill him out of caution, more then murderhobo behavior. However the cleric, only one speaking Draconic, started a conversation. The moment the first two players stated their action they moved into sight to get a better view of Meepo. At which point I decided to play him rather depressed and sad and catatonic. When Meepo led the players to Yusdrayl she spit on him with disdain and had no issue letting him go with the group as a guide. Didn't care whether he lived or died. Because of the plans she had with the Wyrm and that now went down the drain. During several fights Meepo made some incredible, highly unlikely, kill shots. The party thought of him as a badass sniper with the slingshot. When Meepo used his spear it led to amusing misses and comedy. The wyrmling used his breath attack that froze Meepo. I had him die and when taking the mini of the map the players looked at me and were a but upset. So instead gave him the same death saves as players would. Giving them the chance to save him. They really wanted him to go on their journey, but made a mistake in the end. The cleric decided to talk with the Wyrm and set it free. Causing an uproar from the kobolds and thus ran from the Citadel without looking back and missing the chance of getting Meepo. I already had a char sheet ready for Meepo that would play into him being this Sniper badass. Also had taken a look at some Feats Red Hand of Doom offers and was going to give some to Meepo. Even had a backstory ready to explore his personality and all the doubts occuring...having a crisis of personality/religion basically. Because of that introduced an NPC that would pretty much be a Brass Dragon in disguise. A recurring NPC in different shapes along the journey. That would become a mind blown twist/connection at the end of RHOD and or into Rise of Tiamat module. Ah well.... I still use that NPC in another way then.
Depending on the developments, aftermath, of Red Hand of Doom... Meepo could become a sniperlord leading his own band of kobolds. Attempting to take over some cities that lay in ruin from the army passing through.
Also I pronounce Belak as Bae-Lak and Ballsac is...well even in english the same as it is in dutch basically.
Going through the floors my issue was with the open tunnels towards the Underdark. You can position kobolds there as guards. When the players arrive you could have them fight against some simpler Underdark enemies. Which are still a struggle to deal with when they combine their prowess. It could deter the players from going further, but still not my favorite approach. Instead I kept it simple. Just have the tunnel collapse and thus create a safe room they can use for resting.
Another thing was room 14, I think it was, which the players have to break open. The first long corridor which they go through into Meepo's area. It has this weird contraption that house a Mephit in each barrel. For starting players these can be quite dangerous creatures. They can get 1 more Mephit of their kind to aid and have fairly strong AoE attacks...even upon their own death. And there is the contraption itself that makes no sense since its very unclear of what it is and what it was used for. I simply turned it into some sort of Alchemical brewery room and left it at that.
I also enjoy how the Citadel gradually introduces new opponents. This lets you clearly show different types of personality and intelligence/strategies used. Also a great way to introduce new combat mechanics to your players in easy understandable steps. Instead of overloading them with information.
I liked the setup for the goblinville encounter with the little room where the hobgoblins reside. If you have players that scout, and made certain agreements with Yusdrayl, it can turn into quite a "large" tactically fun encounter. At this stage a change in scenery occurs as well. Underdark purple fungi as nutrition/light source is introduced. As the players explore further they learn, around the arboretums, that attempts are made to cultivate such flora. If you have more experienced players, that want more challenge, you can introduce Spores and Entangling vines and such as enemies from here on out. Might spruce up some of the encounters, because Grove Level is pretty straight forward with mostly flavor and exposition. You players can run into the area with the 6 rooms where goblin commoners are working. Are your players murderhobo's or will they feel bad about killing commoners? Options for character development there. Also to get a feel what your group prefers and use that for future content.
When going south there is this little secluded area, room 46?, that feels off. It makes for a great resting place, but my players kept looking for secrets and traps. I agreed that this room deserves something. So when placing an offering on the plate they could wake up with a blessing in the shape of a simple Inspiration Die. Especially since they might need it for the final fight.
The Fire Snakes are fun opponents. By itself its not much, but the fire backlash on melee characters can add up. When my group went to the arboretums they smelled sulphur, but didn't see anything else. They resumed exploring next door with some skeletons and twig blights. After two or three rounds the Fire Snake from next door came to see what the ruckus was about. That was a much more interesting and deadly encounter too offset the other easy roflstomp fights.
The shadow in Ashardalon's shrine room was weird. I wonder where it came from. Did the dragonpriests created it? For what purpose? It seems to guard this statue, but its all rather vague. Since he rolled a 1 on initiative it was an easy enough conflict not worth nothing. Same as how I felt about it in general hehe.
For Belak's fight there is little exposition in the module. The players can learn about him and his toad in Oakhurst, if an NPC even remembers him passing through 15 years ago. When my players broke into his study and searched the desk and bookcases they didn't find that lame tome. The one with the warding sigil that explodes in the players face for no real reason. Instead they found a collection of diaries and research notes. Depending if the players want to take the time to read through them or just quickly peruse they get x amount of info. As quick summary these diaries can explain how Belak was shunned by his druid grove for wanting to look into unnatural life. He then learned about a legend stating how a vampire was slain and a tree grew from the corpse. That's how he came to pass through Oakhurst towards the Citadel where he did his research. Over time he noticed his thoughts weren't just his own and that something was starting to influence Belak. However since Belak's interests somewhat allign this presence didn't fully charm/dominate him. But the writings of diaries become more erratic and eventually stop all together. This should be enough info to give players the idea there is more going on here.
The Gulthias Tree can't do most things a vampire does, but it can still have a Charm spell on a recharge of 6, maybe 5 even. My players read the information, but ignored it thinking it was some kind of trick/deception. After killing Belak out of the gate they realized that Hucrele and Braford's eyes were still glazed over. Gradually most of the group got charmed and the perfect start of the fight turned into a hell of a fight where they hunted each other. Party druid died and the cleric had 2 successful and 2 failed death saves. Depending on how good your players are you can add those Underdark Spores and Vines etc. You can always add them for narrative purposes and during the fight decide to activate them or not. In the least it just adds to the eerie surrounding they're fighting in.
Also the reason I think Belak wanted the adventurers of the first group brought to him was for experimentation. Along the way my players found diseased rats. Described as also having elements of wood corruption coming through their skin. On the second floor they find the table if the round tied down onto it. So my reasoning was that Belak reached the stage of testing on humans now. With his timely visitors it would mean less attention then going back to the surface and kidnap someone.
Its also possible to play with the Charm situation. This is two fold. One aspect is to create more exposition and explanation as to what the tree is. While the second is to keep charmed players still engaged and involved allowing the fight to not become overwhelming. If your player(s) is charmed for 2 rounds they start seeing visions of the staked vampire and growth of the tree. Third charmed round there is a clear psychic connection where they can now interact with the vampiric essence/soul. starting 4th round they can even start attacking it in that "dimension" where all their attacks are now psychic damage instead of their normal type. Maybe half the damage output since the HP of the tree itself isn't that high. However this also applies to Hucrele and Braford. They're minds being dominated to the point they couldn't even fight back psychically. And if they survived they'd be so traumatized and shaken up that they'd be a mess for the rest of their lives. In my scenario those NPC's wouldn't have made it out alive anyway, but the players killed them out of self preservation anyway.
Also take a look at the 3.5 adventure module Heart of Nightfang Spire for more info regarding Gulthias and his goals.
I found the fight, as written, to be relatively poor and simple. When plugging in the information it was seen as CR Deadly...as if that stops me hehe. CR is fairly meaningless imo. Added more twig blights and twig vines around the Tree itself. They're slow moving, do little damage, low hp....perfect if you got players with AoE like a druid's Moonbeam for example. Might want to adjust some spell choices Belak has, because they didn't allow that much offensive potential either. Which caused him to be mostly a sitting duck when focused fire is applied to him. Which I found an issue with all opponents actually. They're HP by default was too low, even after I upped it towards the max suggested die roll. Only the Toad felt strong, tanky and challenging with sufficient HP. I like that toad since it could jump to cover longer distances, could strangle and caused players to spend resources to take it down.
For example, we know from the introduction that the kobold occupation is relatively recent. And we know from Yusdrayl that they've occupied the areas around the entrance for at least a month since they met with the previous human adventure party. Yet that party apparently fought and defeated goblins in the entrance tower. How did those goblins get there? And how is it that the goblins can get in and out to trade magic fruit at Oakhurst if they are at war with the kobolds. And why would the kobolds then keep their precious dragon both far from their own guards and right on the edge of the goblin territory. I do think the dungeon as it's written has some logical inconsistencies in its arrangement that require further explanation.
I had similar issues with various moments. I think the goblins were pinned to the wall when the kobolds first entered themselves. Just describe the corpses as being fairly well decomposed. However there is also a trapped door under the masonry rubble just outside the entrance. That was weird. So had it already marked and opened for players to spot. Previous group of Sir Braford did that and also introduces to players that traps are a thing to look out for.
1. I think it wasn't the adventurers of Sir Braford that killed the goblins at the entrance. Those goblins were pierced with spear to the wall. Sherowyn hucrele is a spell caster, Braford uses a sword and the other guy is a ranger. So that would mean Halgen Hucrele is a spear user? I find it more likely that the kobolds killed the goblins when they entered the territory and started a war over it.
2. Trading fruit in doesn't happen all year round. It only happens around the middle of summer and middle of winter. Those are the only times the fruits bloom. Depending on when you have your adventure, time wise, it could all fit just fine. Goblins traded fruit of the middle of summer. Few weeks later the kobolds invade. Shortly after sir Braford and his troupe come along. Could also use the idea someone else mentioned about the two underdark passages in the Citadel. That those would lead out in a field somewhere that the goblins use as a backdoor entrance.
3. The wyrm isn't kept far from kobold guards. Meepo is there and right next to him there is a kobold guard post looking straight at the door towards the goblin territory. There is another small passage near the kobold colony room. It is trapped, but at the far end is a low wall that goblins could climb over and invade from there. That route would go past a trap, past the 2 kobold guards guarding the colonies door, 3 patrolling "elite" kobolds" and they in turn can easily alert the 3-4 kobold guard rooms that hold 3 kobolds each. So the Wyrm is actually fairly well guarded. That is why I don't believe the goblins simply stole the wyrm. It makes more sense they were the "footsoldiers" listening to the strategic commands of the hobgoblins supported by brute bugbear force.
Encouraging improvisation is fine, but I still need a foundation to improvise on. If I just make stuff up as it comes along in the adventure, I'll end up improvising myself into a corner.
That's why you read the entire adventure module at least once in its entirety before even starting to play. So that you have an overall grasp of the situation and events. As for prep its not that difficult to make minor adjustments to these little issues. So improvising on the spot in regards to these things means bad preparation before a session.
5e adventures seem like more of writing workshop than previous editions. Many older adventures seemed easier to start with less prep, however, I think 5e encourages more improvisation.
I can’t remember where I read a cool narrative that solved some of the apparent inconsistencies, but I do remember that the ravine was a “back entrance” to the sunless citadel for the goblins. The narrative I read explained that there is cave mouth that exits from the ravine cavern further down the way.
I am very curious about the tunnel leading into the underdark behind Yusdrayl’s throne room. It seems like there is a potentially interesting adventure deep into Kobold territory, and considering how popular Meepo is, I have considered putting some real though into developing a Kobold story line behind Yusdrayl moving into the Citadel.
There is another tunnel into the underdark in the lower level of the citadel past Balsags room. I have thought about the menacing things that could come out of that tunnel, and think it could be a good way for the Drow to come in and snatch unsuspecting characters on their way back out of the dungeon, and transition them right into the jail cell at the beginning of Out of the Abyss.
You can do various things with those tunnels. When goblins capture the players in overwhelming numbers, they could then trade with the drow. Meaning you have a start into a cool Underdark story line if you so desire.
I hadn't even considered the idea of using the two Underdark tunnels for something else. Such as a back entrance in and out of the Citadel. On the grove level Balsac uses that tunnel to get to the surface to do his hunting. Goblins could use it to keep trading and raiding.
Speaking on the inconsistencies, I am prepping this adventure and trying to reconcile being attacked by the Wyrmling, and saving Meepo and the Wyrmling alive to return it. Lets say that my part simply kills the dragon, which I think very possible (we have played together for about 3 years, they will totally just kill it), how do I get the players out past the Kobolds? If Meepo lives he will likely tell the others that we killed their dragon, and then the kobolds should attack.
The adventure never gives any content about that other than if the dragon is returned there is a possible reward. Otherwise, you just get the aftermath.
Can anyone else lend insight on how they have successfully DM'd this situation?
That's a good one.
My players killed all the goblins and cleared the entire Grove Level. The kobolds were left alive, but they had a strained relationship with Yusdrayl. She said she'd help if the wyrm was returned, but no one negotiated the details. Upon returning the wyrm she offered the magical items on her table. Players were unhappy with that since they expected tactical manpower as assistance. And the cleric insight checked her to see she wasn't telling something. Which all led to very intense social encounters with threats and such either way. After killing Belak the players made their way back to the first floor. At that time the kobolds were already moving into Goblin territory. Moving stuff around and settling in. Yusdrayl moved herself to the room where you fight the wyrm. Since the kobolds were moving they were all spread out. Guards weren't in their positions since there are no real threats any more. However they hadn't moved the wyrm to a new area since they were still making space for it. After the players say they cleared the entire bottom floor Yusdrayl thinks about moving the Wyrm there since its more spacious. And she might not know, but the wyrm could use burrow at a later age and just make his own way out of that area if he wants too.
So that pretty much opened a short window for the cleric who distrusts Yusdrayl. He wants to set the dragon free. Took several charisma checks to lower the very aggressive evil stance of the wyrm. However even a young wyrm can be tricky and manipulative enough to use the player and get out of his chains. So the combined strength and Shatterspike weapon of the cleric + the wyrm broke the chains and cage. Wyrm promised to leave the party alone and also leave the region back to the colder north where his parent is. But not before revealing minor info about the cult of Red Hand that captured him in the first place and moved him to the Citadel with the hobgoblin guards. Which then raised the question from some players "so we could've negotiated with the goblins against the hobgoblins?" :P
However as soon as the dragon broke free...the few moving kobolds ran of to alert Yusdrayl. However the kobolds were commoners assisting in moving their colony elsewhere. And Yusdrayl was on the far end of the dungeon. Allowing the players and the dragon to get away, before trouble arrived.
The Wyrm goes ballistic when seeing Meepo. Probably going for him first. If Meepo somehow survives he could jump in at the moment players want to deliver the final blow. Trying to convince them to keep the Wyrm alive. If they kill the dragon nonetheless. Turn it into a social encounter with Yusdrayl. Depending how that turns out the kobolds standing changes. Which can go in any direction depending on DM discretion.
Well, the group that I am DM'ing went through the first floor of the Citadel. Went to the locked room with the Dragon last, and the Dragon immediately attacked Meebo. My players, unlike what I thought they would do (classic, I know) they instead appealed to the dragon by saying that it would be worshipped and adorned, what is wrong? They successfully negotiated the Dragons return with Meebo, and those two left the group, and we continue forward in our next session. I am pretty impressed.
With all that said, I want to thank @giblix, whose comments helped me get around my own thoughts on this one a little bit.
I'm pretty sure that Balsag is intended to be pronounced in a funny way, because if you read the description of the shaft that leads from the first level to the second, you'll see that it's basically a cleverly disguised dirty joke. (Note, in the interests of not getting moderated AND not ruining the joke, I won't explain further - just go read it and you'll see.)
I'm surprised that from what I can see, no one has realised that the Gulthias tree is actually named after the Vampire that was staked at the spot the tree grew in, the orginal module it never mentions what happened to his body, he eventually appears in Heart of Nightfang Spire, where it turns out he is quite mad after being 'dead' so long, it also turns out he was a leader of a cult which worships the great red Dragon Ashardalon who was trying to become a god.
Personally, while the 3rd edition modules arn't totally constatant with each other and are a very lose 'adventure path', I'd have it so that Gulthias was actually released by the heroes if they complete TSC adventure......
Also it's interesting that Gulthias Trees ended up in Barovia in Curse of Stradh and Twig Blights (the offspring of the Tree's Fruits) made it into the Free Basic Rules........... That's a campaign thread there in and of itself :smiles with pointed teeth:
EDIT: ops, turns out at least one person did make the connection, in their very, very long post LOL :D
Also, any thoughts about freeing the enthralled characters? Do you think a Greater Restoration would be sufficient?
That is an interesting question, and one that I have been wondering for the sake of the greater reward for the adventurers. I don't think it is possible based on the description of the Thrall and on Belak's comments about those players.
I'm hoping to run this soon and I'm thinking about setting it just before Mid-Summer with the option of the party using the fruit of the Gulthias Tree to heal Sharwyn and Sir Braford. It states that the fruit can cure most ailments/diseases and can be split by up to four people and still be effective. So they could use half of the fruit to heal the two thralls and keep the other half for an emergency.
Also, any thoughts about freeing the enthralled characters? Do you think a Greater Restoration would be sufficient?
That is an interesting question, and one that I have been wondering for the sake of the greater reward for the adventurers. I don't think it is possible based on the description of the Thrall and on Belak's comments about those players.
I'm hoping to run this soon and I'm thinking about setting it just before Mid-Summer with the option of the party using the fruit of the Gulthias Tree to heal Sharwyn and Sir Braford. It states that the fruit can cure most ailments/diseases and can be split by up to four people and still be effective. So they could use half of the fruit to heal the two thralls and keep the other half for an emergency.
They'd have to be restored before the heroes destroy the tree though, as (under 3rd ed's rules) once the tree was destroyed, all suplicants were killed as well......
Not sure if it works the same way in 5th ed mind you........
One the PCs in my group referred to Meepo as Meatball. Meatball got tossed down a hallway to check for traps. He found a spiked pit trap. RIP Meatball.
Also, any thoughts about freeing the enthralled characters? Do you think a Greater Restoration would be sufficient?
That is an interesting question, and one that I have been wondering for the sake of the greater reward for the adventurers. I don't think it is possible based on the description of the Thrall and on Belak's comments about those players.
I'm hoping to run this soon and I'm thinking about setting it just before Mid-Summer with the option of the party using the fruit of the Gulthias Tree to heal Sharwyn and Sir Braford. It states that the fruit can cure most ailments/diseases and can be split by up to four people and still be effective. So they could use half of the fruit to heal the two thralls and keep the other half for an emergency.
They'd have to be restored before the heroes destroy the tree though, as (under 3rd ed's rules) once the tree was destroyed, all suplicants were killed as well......
Not sure if it works the same way in 5th ed mind you........
In 5E they die 24 hours after the tree is destroyed.
It is still just a guide line. No one follows the adventure modules strictly. Every DM modifies the modules in one way or another.
You can make adjustments and have the players save the enchanted/charmed characters. Its tricky to have them fill in on the possibility. Perhaps drop a research journal somewhere of Belak with such information. Then the players still have to get the fruit somehow. Before the fight begins and they end up killing everyone. You could try to turn it into a social encounter where Belak doesn't automatically activate all his defences for combat. Fits with his bio that he feels unstoppable and cocky. So he might want to taunt and invite the players. If the players destroy the tree first then all "charm" effects wear off. The fight is super easy since every twig blight and npc attacks Belak and then each other. This is scenario three. In which the group can just clean up, talk with the two NPC's, grab the fruit and deal with the tree further. My group threw Alchemist's Fire they had found in the dungeon on the tree...so it'll never stop burning...unless somehow intervened.
In short you have to change a lot of the parameters. Since almost everything is aimed to it being an option, but a very unlikely one to succeed.
I have a question about the dungeon itself. The whole thing during some cataclysm got buried and the upper level are what were the outbuildings of the castle? How is it that under all of that there is a courtyard with the tree? I know the answer is, "It just is". but that sounds kind of lame to tell the players.
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“Surviving Port Nyanzaru” - Dungeon Master Tier 1
Encouraging improvisation is fine, but I still need a foundation to improvise on. If I just make stuff up as it comes along in the adventure, I'll end up improvising myself into a corner.
I think I'll go with the goblins occupying the whole of citadel until the kobolds show up to displace them. The previous adventuring party turn up just in time to turn things in the kobolds' favour. The dragon is taken by Balsag in a recent raid, while Meepo hid. By that point the dragon cage would be at the back of the kobold territory.
“Surviving Port Nyanzaru” - Dungeon Master Tier 1
I want to point out something fun when it comes to the inconsistencies that you can tie in to your lore:
If you haven't played Strahd:
The tunnel in Sunless Citadel leads to the Underdark.
The Underdark is actually much like the Feywyld and exists in it's own little plane.
Inside this plane there exists a lot of evil and nastiness.
Inside this evil, nasty plane exists evil an nastiness that even the evil and nasty folk think is too evil and nasty.
So they created pocket dimensions to place these really evil and nasty people.
One of these really evil and nasty people is Baron Strahd.
In Barovia, Strahd's pocket dimension, exists a druidic cult that worships the Gulthias tree...
--Hows that for a really fun way to tie things together?
Cool. Because one of my players is playing a druid, I think I'll connect her to Belak in some way. The connection between vampires and the Gulthias tree hasn't escaped my notice, but I don't want to pre-plan too much as I'm expecting that they'll jump straight into the next adventure once they've cleared the citadel.
I haven't given much thought to the hobgoblins yet. I just assumed they were an integral part of the settlement, but there might be some good material there.
Another thought is that after the kobolds won their initial victory they pushed the goblins further back. But this left them overstretched and allowed Balsag to break through with a strike team and steal their dragon. (According to the text that this was about a week ago - but I might make it more recent to explain Meepo's current demeanour.) They have now pulled their people together to more effectively defend themselves. This also gives an explanation for why Yusdrayl hasn't used the dragon door key herself: they haven't discovered the dragon door yet.
Does the Gulthias Tree grant Belak some spells like animate dead? I can’t figure out how he would be controlling the skeletons down on the grove level based on the abilities he is listed with. I thought about putting the Night Caller whistle in his inventory instead of locked inside the shrine, which could account for his skeleton helpers.
Also, any thoughts about freeing the enthralled characters? Do you think a Greater Restoration would be sufficient?
How much information about the Gulthias Tree is included in the Curse of Strahd?
“Surviving Port Nyanzaru” - Dungeon Master Tier 1
That is an interesting question, and one that I have been wondering for the sake of the greater reward for the adventurers. I don't think it is possible based on the description of the Thrall and on Belak's comments about those players.
Speaking on the inconsistencies, I am prepping this adventure and trying to reconcile being attacked by the Wyrmling, and saving Meepo and the Wyrmling alive to return it. Lets say that my part simply kills the dragon, which I think very possible (we have played together for about 3 years, they will totally just kill it), how do I get the players out past the Kobolds? If Meepo lives he will likely tell the others that we killed their dragon, and then the kobolds should attack.
The adventure never gives any content about that other than if the dragon is returned there is a possible reward. Otherwise, you just get the aftermath.
Can anyone else lend insight on how they have successfully DM'd this situation?
Like some DM's I've been though the adventure several times now. Mostly as a player. Last saturday my players made it back to Oakhurst for shopping and are now on the road towards Brindoll and Blasingdell. Their current tour is my way of getting them to feel the size of Elsir Vale. Get invested in some of the villages along the way. So that when Red Hand of Doom begins they have more incentive to work hard to safe it.
Sunless Citadel is ideal for newcomers, both players and DM's alike. It is fairly straightforward with a small village of Oakhurst and a handful of NPC's. All quest hooks eventually lead to the Citadel for a linear dungeon crawl. However there is still space for social interactions and to show there is no black & white clear evul in the world. Just like any module, there are issues that need to be addressed. It really depends on the kind of adventure/campaign you're running and make it fit as such. Personally I enjoy reading modules and trying to puzzle a work around to tie it all together. Look at possible issues and deal with it, but also looking at the possibilities and expand on those.
Since my campaign has Red Hand of Doom and Tiamat at its core the Dragon Cult plays a prominent role. In my setting the goblins were there raiding the place and working with Belak while maintaining some distance. The hobgoblins were sent by the Red Hand, with the white wyrm, to take over. Safe guarding the wyrm for a possible ritual down the line and also making sure a white dragon is in play since RHOD doesn't have one. Grendl the Shaman was annoyed to lose control over her goblins causing some inner struggle and power play potential there. Eventually the kobolds, under Yusdrayl's command, enter the Citadel since she thinks to be the right heirs of calling this home. Naturally a war between the two groups started. During the struggles the kobolds took control over the white wyrm and is now being used as a pawn of power between the warring groups. Meaning the hobgoblins, with the bugbears using the goblins in a counter attack too get the wyrm back on their side where it originally came from. The cleric in my group did insight on Yusdrayl to learn that she wasn't telling the truth when claiming the dragon was hers. She believes all dragon related things belong to kobolds, but there was more at play. This setup allowed for a lot of social encounters instead of just being a murder hobo. Due to the power struggle the factions didn't have the strength to terrorize the region making it quite peaceful for Oakhurst. With one faction gone how would that situation change? Lots of options. Then once they get to lvl 6-10 into RHOD the bad guys/commanders can make reference to what has happened as well regarding the Wyrm. Same for Forge of Fury where the Duergar will use the Underdark route to travel across the Elsir Vale and supply the Red Hand Horde with crafted armors. Depending on how players deal with that there can be remarks/tie ins as well during RHOD itself.
Oakhurst I didn't alter all that much. I find the original quest hook of the "missing Hucrele children" to be a fairly weak starting point. There is a paladin with his ranger buddy that came through town. Looks like there is already an adventuring party on the case. Why would the players care? So I altered that into the children having run away to finally live the adventurer's dream. Having left a note behind for the mother who is now very worried. They haven't returned in a week or two and wants the group to see how it all turned out. Next to that is also the potential quest hook of mysterious deaths around the farms.
This is a very fun, optional questhook, to work into the story. It has so much more interesting potential. I turned it into an investigation/CSI Oakhurst moment. It also works into the reason of Belak using the goblins to sell the fruits to people. But I have some issues with that aspect. Belak's reason is to spread the seeds of Gulthias Tree and gradually infest the area with Bligh Twights. You can have the livestock sporadically die under mysterious circumstances at night. With small penetration wounds that have some wood splinters here and there. Some child snuck out of bed, looked outside the window and was able to see small creatures moving through the fields. But the parents dismissed it since...she's just a child. I had a firbolg ranger speak with the cow Betsy to get a vague description and a general direction this creature moved towards. You can then also tie in Sir Braford to have been sent by his order to investigate. In his area the Twig blights had already spread too and started occasionally killing people in the woods. His investigation led to asking questions around Oakhurst and move towards the Citadel as well. The constable gets bothered by the farmer collective and is under pressure to solve it, but her guards/hunters are pretty low trained and thus unsuited for the job. You can add a chase scene if your players investigate at night and see a few twigs appear from the treeline etc. Lots of fun and interesting starting points imo.
However Belak and the fruit. Apparently he sends out the goblins to sell the fruit. Selling the fruit brings in enough money for the druid and to have enough profit the goblins no longer raid merchant convoys. Lack of attacks can be explained due to the war conflict with the kobolds. Those lizards also control the first, entry, part of the Citadel. How would goblins even move through kobold territory just to sell a fruit? How would the goblins sell captured players back to town in similar fashion? In my opinion the sales of fruits stopped when the kobolds arrived, but by then enough blighted seeds had been spread to expand naturally of its own. As for trading back captured players I don't think the goblins even do that. They didn't return Erky who has been there for months. Braford and Hucrele were taken down on Belak's orders while the son of Hucrele and the ranger were killed. That change probably occurred, because of the arrival of Hob Goblins in my setting that added a different system.
That leaves Meepo. I'm not a fan of sniveling weaklings. Not sure how my players would interact there was no real plan in place. Two players ran in ready to kill him out of caution, more then murderhobo behavior. However the cleric, only one speaking Draconic, started a conversation. The moment the first two players stated their action they moved into sight to get a better view of Meepo. At which point I decided to play him rather depressed and sad and catatonic. When Meepo led the players to Yusdrayl she spit on him with disdain and had no issue letting him go with the group as a guide. Didn't care whether he lived or died. Because of the plans she had with the Wyrm and that now went down the drain. During several fights Meepo made some incredible, highly unlikely, kill shots. The party thought of him as a badass sniper with the slingshot. When Meepo used his spear it led to amusing misses and comedy. The wyrmling used his breath attack that froze Meepo. I had him die and when taking the mini of the map the players looked at me and were a but upset. So instead gave him the same death saves as players would. Giving them the chance to save him. They really wanted him to go on their journey, but made a mistake in the end. The cleric decided to talk with the Wyrm and set it free. Causing an uproar from the kobolds and thus ran from the Citadel without looking back and missing the chance of getting Meepo. I already had a char sheet ready for Meepo that would play into him being this Sniper badass. Also had taken a look at some Feats Red Hand of Doom offers and was going to give some to Meepo. Even had a backstory ready to explore his personality and all the doubts occuring...having a crisis of personality/religion basically. Because of that introduced an NPC that would pretty much be a Brass Dragon in disguise. A recurring NPC in different shapes along the journey. That would become a mind blown twist/connection at the end of RHOD and or into Rise of Tiamat module. Ah well.... I still use that NPC in another way then.
Depending on the developments, aftermath, of Red Hand of Doom... Meepo could become a sniperlord leading his own band of kobolds. Attempting to take over some cities that lay in ruin from the army passing through.
Also I pronounce Belak as Bae-Lak and Ballsac is...well even in english the same as it is in dutch basically.
Going through the floors my issue was with the open tunnels towards the Underdark. You can position kobolds there as guards. When the players arrive you could have them fight against some simpler Underdark enemies. Which are still a struggle to deal with when they combine their prowess. It could deter the players from going further, but still not my favorite approach. Instead I kept it simple. Just have the tunnel collapse and thus create a safe room they can use for resting.
Another thing was room 14, I think it was, which the players have to break open. The first long corridor which they go through into Meepo's area. It has this weird contraption that house a Mephit in each barrel. For starting players these can be quite dangerous creatures. They can get 1 more Mephit of their kind to aid and have fairly strong AoE attacks...even upon their own death. And there is the contraption itself that makes no sense since its very unclear of what it is and what it was used for. I simply turned it into some sort of Alchemical brewery room and left it at that.
I also enjoy how the Citadel gradually introduces new opponents. This lets you clearly show different types of personality and intelligence/strategies used. Also a great way to introduce new combat mechanics to your players in easy understandable steps. Instead of overloading them with information.
I liked the setup for the goblinville encounter with the little room where the hobgoblins reside. If you have players that scout, and made certain agreements with Yusdrayl, it can turn into quite a "large" tactically fun encounter. At this stage a change in scenery occurs as well. Underdark purple fungi as nutrition/light source is introduced. As the players explore further they learn, around the arboretums, that attempts are made to cultivate such flora. If you have more experienced players, that want more challenge, you can introduce Spores and Entangling vines and such as enemies from here on out. Might spruce up some of the encounters, because Grove Level is pretty straight forward with mostly flavor and exposition. You players can run into the area with the 6 rooms where goblin commoners are working. Are your players murderhobo's or will they feel bad about killing commoners? Options for character development there. Also to get a feel what your group prefers and use that for future content.
When going south there is this little secluded area, room 46?, that feels off. It makes for a great resting place, but my players kept looking for secrets and traps. I agreed that this room deserves something. So when placing an offering on the plate they could wake up with a blessing in the shape of a simple Inspiration Die. Especially since they might need it for the final fight.
The Fire Snakes are fun opponents. By itself its not much, but the fire backlash on melee characters can add up. When my group went to the arboretums they smelled sulphur, but didn't see anything else. They resumed exploring next door with some skeletons and twig blights. After two or three rounds the Fire Snake from next door came to see what the ruckus was about. That was a much more interesting and deadly encounter too offset the other easy roflstomp fights.
The shadow in Ashardalon's shrine room was weird. I wonder where it came from. Did the dragonpriests created it? For what purpose? It seems to guard this statue, but its all rather vague. Since he rolled a 1 on initiative it was an easy enough conflict not worth nothing. Same as how I felt about it in general hehe.
For Belak's fight there is little exposition in the module. The players can learn about him and his toad in Oakhurst, if an NPC even remembers him passing through 15 years ago. When my players broke into his study and searched the desk and bookcases they didn't find that lame tome. The one with the warding sigil that explodes in the players face for no real reason. Instead they found a collection of diaries and research notes. Depending if the players want to take the time to read through them or just quickly peruse they get x amount of info. As quick summary these diaries can explain how Belak was shunned by his druid grove for wanting to look into unnatural life. He then learned about a legend stating how a vampire was slain and a tree grew from the corpse. That's how he came to pass through Oakhurst towards the Citadel where he did his research. Over time he noticed his thoughts weren't just his own and that something was starting to influence Belak. However since Belak's interests somewhat allign this presence didn't fully charm/dominate him. But the writings of diaries become more erratic and eventually stop all together. This should be enough info to give players the idea there is more going on here.
The Gulthias Tree can't do most things a vampire does, but it can still have a Charm spell on a recharge of 6, maybe 5 even. My players read the information, but ignored it thinking it was some kind of trick/deception. After killing Belak out of the gate they realized that Hucrele and Braford's eyes were still glazed over. Gradually most of the group got charmed and the perfect start of the fight turned into a hell of a fight where they hunted each other. Party druid died and the cleric had 2 successful and 2 failed death saves. Depending on how good your players are you can add those Underdark Spores and Vines etc. You can always add them for narrative purposes and during the fight decide to activate them or not. In the least it just adds to the eerie surrounding they're fighting in.
Also the reason I think Belak wanted the adventurers of the first group brought to him was for experimentation. Along the way my players found diseased rats. Described as also having elements of wood corruption coming through their skin. On the second floor they find the table if the round tied down onto it. So my reasoning was that Belak reached the stage of testing on humans now. With his timely visitors it would mean less attention then going back to the surface and kidnap someone.
Its also possible to play with the Charm situation. This is two fold. One aspect is to create more exposition and explanation as to what the tree is. While the second is to keep charmed players still engaged and involved allowing the fight to not become overwhelming. If your player(s) is charmed for 2 rounds they start seeing visions of the staked vampire and growth of the tree. Third charmed round there is a clear psychic connection where they can now interact with the vampiric essence/soul. starting 4th round they can even start attacking it in that "dimension" where all their attacks are now psychic damage instead of their normal type. Maybe half the damage output since the HP of the tree itself isn't that high. However this also applies to Hucrele and Braford. They're minds being dominated to the point they couldn't even fight back psychically. And if they survived they'd be so traumatized and shaken up that they'd be a mess for the rest of their lives. In my scenario those NPC's wouldn't have made it out alive anyway, but the players killed them out of self preservation anyway.
Also take a look at the 3.5 adventure module Heart of Nightfang Spire for more info regarding Gulthias and his goals.
I found the fight, as written, to be relatively poor and simple. When plugging in the information it was seen as CR Deadly...as if that stops me hehe. CR is fairly meaningless imo. Added more twig blights and twig vines around the Tree itself. They're slow moving, do little damage, low hp....perfect if you got players with AoE like a druid's Moonbeam for example. Might want to adjust some spell choices Belak has, because they didn't allow that much offensive potential either. Which caused him to be mostly a sitting duck when focused fire is applied to him. Which I found an issue with all opponents actually. They're HP by default was too low, even after I upped it towards the max suggested die roll. Only the Toad felt strong, tanky and challenging with sufficient HP. I like that toad since it could jump to cover longer distances, could strangle and caused players to spend resources to take it down.
I had similar issues with various moments. I think the goblins were pinned to the wall when the kobolds first entered themselves. Just describe the corpses as being fairly well decomposed. However there is also a trapped door under the masonry rubble just outside the entrance. That was weird. So had it already marked and opened for players to spot. Previous group of Sir Braford did that and also introduces to players that traps are a thing to look out for.
1. I think it wasn't the adventurers of Sir Braford that killed the goblins at the entrance. Those goblins were pierced with spear to the wall. Sherowyn hucrele is a spell caster, Braford uses a sword and the other guy is a ranger. So that would mean Halgen Hucrele is a spear user? I find it more likely that the kobolds killed the goblins when they entered the territory and started a war over it.
2. Trading fruit in doesn't happen all year round. It only happens around the middle of summer and middle of winter. Those are the only times the fruits bloom. Depending on when you have your adventure, time wise, it could all fit just fine. Goblins traded fruit of the middle of summer. Few weeks later the kobolds invade. Shortly after sir Braford and his troupe come along. Could also use the idea someone else mentioned about the two underdark passages in the Citadel. That those would lead out in a field somewhere that the goblins use as a backdoor entrance.
3. The wyrm isn't kept far from kobold guards. Meepo is there and right next to him there is a kobold guard post looking straight at the door towards the goblin territory. There is another small passage near the kobold colony room. It is trapped, but at the far end is a low wall that goblins could climb over and invade from there. That route would go past a trap, past the 2 kobold guards guarding the colonies door, 3 patrolling "elite" kobolds" and they in turn can easily alert the 3-4 kobold guard rooms that hold 3 kobolds each. So the Wyrm is actually fairly well guarded. That is why I don't believe the goblins simply stole the wyrm. It makes more sense they were the "footsoldiers" listening to the strategic commands of the hobgoblins supported by brute bugbear force.
That's why you read the entire adventure module at least once in its entirety before even starting to play. So that you have an overall grasp of the situation and events. As for prep its not that difficult to make minor adjustments to these little issues. So improvising on the spot in regards to these things means bad preparation before a session.
You can do various things with those tunnels. When goblins capture the players in overwhelming numbers, they could then trade with the drow. Meaning you have a start into a cool Underdark story line if you so desire.
I hadn't even considered the idea of using the two Underdark tunnels for something else. Such as a back entrance in and out of the Citadel. On the grove level Balsac uses that tunnel to get to the surface to do his hunting. Goblins could use it to keep trading and raiding.
That's a good one.
My players killed all the goblins and cleared the entire Grove Level. The kobolds were left alive, but they had a strained relationship with Yusdrayl. She said she'd help if the wyrm was returned, but no one negotiated the details. Upon returning the wyrm she offered the magical items on her table. Players were unhappy with that since they expected tactical manpower as assistance. And the cleric insight checked her to see she wasn't telling something. Which all led to very intense social encounters with threats and such either way. After killing Belak the players made their way back to the first floor. At that time the kobolds were already moving into Goblin territory. Moving stuff around and settling in. Yusdrayl moved herself to the room where you fight the wyrm. Since the kobolds were moving they were all spread out. Guards weren't in their positions since there are no real threats any more. However they hadn't moved the wyrm to a new area since they were still making space for it. After the players say they cleared the entire bottom floor Yusdrayl thinks about moving the Wyrm there since its more spacious. And she might not know, but the wyrm could use burrow at a later age and just make his own way out of that area if he wants too.
So that pretty much opened a short window for the cleric who distrusts Yusdrayl. He wants to set the dragon free. Took several charisma checks to lower the very aggressive evil stance of the wyrm. However even a young wyrm can be tricky and manipulative enough to use the player and get out of his chains. So the combined strength and Shatterspike weapon of the cleric + the wyrm broke the chains and cage. Wyrm promised to leave the party alone and also leave the region back to the colder north where his parent is. But not before revealing minor info about the cult of Red Hand that captured him in the first place and moved him to the Citadel with the hobgoblin guards. Which then raised the question from some players "so we could've negotiated with the goblins against the hobgoblins?" :P
However as soon as the dragon broke free...the few moving kobolds ran of to alert Yusdrayl. However the kobolds were commoners assisting in moving their colony elsewhere. And Yusdrayl was on the far end of the dungeon. Allowing the players and the dragon to get away, before trouble arrived.
The Wyrm goes ballistic when seeing Meepo. Probably going for him first. If Meepo somehow survives he could jump in at the moment players want to deliver the final blow. Trying to convince them to keep the Wyrm alive. If they kill the dragon nonetheless. Turn it into a social encounter with Yusdrayl. Depending how that turns out the kobolds standing changes. Which can go in any direction depending on DM discretion.
I've been going with Ball-sahg, like saga. I definitely laughed when I got to his name
Well, the group that I am DM'ing went through the first floor of the Citadel. Went to the locked room with the Dragon last, and the Dragon immediately attacked Meebo. My players, unlike what I thought they would do (classic, I know) they instead appealed to the dragon by saying that it would be worshipped and adorned, what is wrong? They successfully negotiated the Dragons return with Meebo, and those two left the group, and we continue forward in our next session. I am pretty impressed.
With all that said, I want to thank @giblix, whose comments helped me get around my own thoughts on this one a little bit.
I'm pretty sure that Balsag is intended to be pronounced in a funny way, because if you read the description of the shaft that leads from the first level to the second, you'll see that it's basically a cleverly disguised dirty joke. (Note, in the interests of not getting moderated AND not ruining the joke, I won't explain further - just go read it and you'll see.)
I'm surprised that from what I can see, no one has realised that the Gulthias tree is actually named after the Vampire that was staked at the spot the tree grew in, the orginal module it never mentions what happened to his body, he eventually appears in Heart of Nightfang Spire, where it turns out he is quite mad after being 'dead' so long, it also turns out he was a leader of a cult which worships the great red Dragon Ashardalon who was trying to become a god.
Personally, while the 3rd edition modules arn't totally constatant with each other and are a very lose 'adventure path', I'd have it so that Gulthias was actually released by the heroes if they complete TSC adventure......
Also it's interesting that Gulthias Trees ended up in Barovia in Curse of Stradh and Twig Blights (the offspring of the Tree's Fruits) made it into the Free Basic Rules........... That's a campaign thread there in and of itself :smiles with pointed teeth:
EDIT: ops, turns out at least one person did make the connection, in their very, very long post LOL :D
"I am The Ancient, I am The Land"
I'm hoping to run this soon and I'm thinking about setting it just before Mid-Summer with the option of the party using the fruit of the Gulthias Tree to heal Sharwyn and Sir Braford. It states that the fruit can cure most ailments/diseases and can be split by up to four people and still be effective. So they could use half of the fruit to heal the two thralls and keep the other half for an emergency.
They'd have to be restored before the heroes destroy the tree though, as (under 3rd ed's rules) once the tree was destroyed, all suplicants were killed as well......
Not sure if it works the same way in 5th ed mind you........
"I am The Ancient, I am The Land"
One the PCs in my group referred to Meepo as Meatball. Meatball got tossed down a hallway to check for traps. He found a spiked pit trap. RIP Meatball.
:-/
-paws
In 5E they die 24 hours after the tree is destroyed.
It is still just a guide line. No one follows the adventure modules strictly. Every DM modifies the modules in one way or another.
You can make adjustments and have the players save the enchanted/charmed characters. Its tricky to have them fill in on the possibility. Perhaps drop a research journal somewhere of Belak with such information. Then the players still have to get the fruit somehow. Before the fight begins and they end up killing everyone. You could try to turn it into a social encounter where Belak doesn't automatically activate all his defences for combat. Fits with his bio that he feels unstoppable and cocky. So he might want to taunt and invite the players. If the players destroy the tree first then all "charm" effects wear off. The fight is super easy since every twig blight and npc attacks Belak and then each other. This is scenario three. In which the group can just clean up, talk with the two NPC's, grab the fruit and deal with the tree further. My group threw Alchemist's Fire they had found in the dungeon on the tree...so it'll never stop burning...unless somehow intervened.
In short you have to change a lot of the parameters. Since almost everything is aimed to it being an option, but a very unlikely one to succeed.
I have a question about the dungeon itself. The whole thing during some cataclysm got buried and the upper level are what were the outbuildings of the castle? How is it that under all of that there is a courtyard with the tree? I know the answer is, "It just is". but that sounds kind of lame to tell the players.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale