I previously posted about running a couple of games, and I am now two sessions into the one I am running for my coworkers. For the sake of brevity, I will try to keep the back story short. I decided to do a team building exercise/create content for our YouTube channel at my job, I work at a library so most of the players are librarians and circulation supervisors I have some original content (their main quest) but I am integrating it with published adventures they are currently running "Lost Mine of Phandelvar" and it's going great.
Here's my question, the group is huge. In the 90s I'd have a maximum group of 4 players for a table top game. I currently have 11 players and I just want to make sure I keep the monster encounters tough, and the pace of the game fun and fast. I've been using D&D beyond to keep track of monster stats etc. (I totally messed up first game), I am not looking for tools per say, I think there are plenty of great suggestions posted here already. I wanted to pick your brains to see what I should do run the game, I guess better and smarter. They just finished "Goblin Arrows" and are moving on to Phandalin, and I am wondering if I should just double the monsters (that seemed to work better in the first part), or if I should introduce other elements to keep it interesting.
Also, how should I handle some late starters, three of my players started late, I was able to work one of them in and thought I had the other one squared away as well but the player left in the middle in the game so I had their character run screaming from the cave. Everyone else has hit level two, except the one who left early and the other one who keeps having problems showing up (not their fault just a bunch of terrible circumstances).
Also worried about the player who left level of dedicating to playing, I gave them all the info to read and use and have been frequently updating them with new information weekly but they don't seem to actually be reading the material. What would be a good way to handle that situation?
Thanks in advance and I am sorry if I am cluttering the space with a repeat question, not intentional.
Honestly I think you may need to split it into 2 different games. 11+ people is rather insane to try to run as one group (if I've understood your post correctly).
While adding more enemies, or beefing up the existing enemies will make the encounters more challenging, with that many players it's also likely to bog down combat and make it longer.
If you insist on keeping all 11+ players as one group, I recommend deputizing at least two players to help keep track of things in combat, like deputy DMs whose job it is to make sue all the players stay on track during combat. Make them responsible for tracking initiative, as well as looking up rules on DDB if/when they come up in combat so you can focus on the encounter.
Maybe get a white board? Have someone whose job it is to take all session notes.
If you do decide to split it in to two groups, you can either run them through the same adventure, or different adventures in the same campaign so that their groups might occasionally cross over, or certain players can "guest star" from time to time in the other group's story.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Yes, it's 11/10 people right now I am now having to decline other libraries who are asking to join the game. I honestly thought that some people would drop out before the game got started but I didn't realize everyone was so interested in playing. I'm in a quandary because I want everyone to have a good time and I'm mostly good at keeping track of initiative and so are they.
Because of the newness of Library D&D and the convincing I had to do to get this approved, if I decided to do that there wouldn't be a split party some people would just be out and not able to play until I prove the game is "viable" as a team building program. It is insane, and combat is slower but so far they do work pretty cohesively as a team. There are two people who I think I could ask to be deputy DMs they have already been super helpful with keeping track etc.
I think I might use the white board idea, to keep track, I got an idea form DM Scottys page about keeping track of spell slots with poker chips for everyone.
When running a table with a large number of players, I have always found it easier to scale-up a smaller number of foes for them to be challenged by than to scale the number of foes.
So, as an example, where an adventure written assuming a normal-sized party might call for 3 wolves (a "hard" encounter for a 1st level party) I would probably change that to be 2 winter wolves without breath weapons, rather than add more wolves to reach similar level of challenge (which would be like 9 wolves) because it is easier to keep the game moving with 7 less things to keep track of.
My opinion on party experience: Ask your group of players if they feel that not being present to play is enough of a negative consequence for not being present to play, or if they also need the characters of people that missed out on some play time to be marginally weaker too. My experience is that, given the choice, most folks choose to consider missing play time enough of a drawback, so they don't mind every character staying at the same level of experience despite some of them having played for more time.
As to dedication... I don't think asking more of a person than to show up regularly, or at least be timely and clear with informing absences that will happen, and to be a team player (meaning work with the group of players so everyone has fun - not necessarily being an in-character team player) ever goes well. That means I encourage not expecting anyone to read anything, nor making someone feel unwelcome at the table because their level of interest and/or time available isn't as much as someone else. So I take a very relaxed stance on players showing up when they can, as long as when the player is present they are contributing to the group's shared enjoyment. If there is someone not contributing to the group's enjoyment, that's when I suggest immediate attention along the lines of helping the person find the ability to work with the group, or showing them the door.
So, as an example, where an adventure written assuming a normal-sized party might call for 3 wolves (a "hard" encounter for a 1st level party) I would probably change that to be 2 winter wolves without breath weapons, rather than add more wolves to reach similar level of challenge (which would be like 9 wolves) because it is easier to keep the game moving with 7 less things to keep track of.
I know it's just an example, but I can't help suggesting that you might be better off with dire wolves instead of debuffed winter wolves.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
So, as an example, where an adventure written assuming a normal-sized party might call for 3 wolves (a "hard" encounter for a 1st level party) I would probably change that to be 2 winter wolves without breath weapons, rather than add more wolves to reach similar level of challenge (which would be like 9 wolves) because it is easier to keep the game moving with 7 less things to keep track of.
I know it's just an example, but I can't help suggesting that you might be better off with dire wolves instead of debuffed winter wolves.
Or you can just increase the HP of the wolves and increase the DC of their trip attack?
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
So, as an example, where an adventure written assuming a normal-sized party might call for 3 wolves (a "hard" encounter for a 1st level party) I would probably change that to be 2 winter wolves without breath weapons, rather than add more wolves to reach similar level of challenge (which would be like 9 wolves) because it is easier to keep the game moving with 7 less things to keep track of.
I know it's just an example, but I can't help suggesting that you might be better off with dire wolves instead of debuffed winter wolves.
Or you can just increase the HP of the wolves and increase the DC of their trip attack?
I thought about doing that! But wasn't sure if I should. I think that might work better, or switching in harder enemies as suggested above. Just so I don't have to keep track of 10 skeletons etc. later on. Since they are getting close to fighting the Nothic and Undead in this portion of the game I was starting to get worried I would have huge rounds that slogged on forever; also I don't have that many minis.... but I was thinking of throwing in an old Hill Giant skeleton from second edition and modifying that so they didn't get too confident when fighting the undead.
When you run the encounter under Tresendar Manor where the nothic is, remember that in the history of Phandalin, it is mentioned that the lord of Tresendar manor was killed when an invasion of orcs emerged from under the manor. When my PCs played through that part I added that there was a narrow passage at one end of the deep crevasse that led even deeper into the ground, and eventually to a deep hole that descended to the Underdark, thus explaining where the orcs originally came from.
You could use a similar device to either add more enemies if they kill the nothic to easil by having undead or even more nothics climb up out of the crevasse.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
When you run the encounter under Tresendar Manor where the nothic is, remember that in the history of Phandalin, it is mentioned that the lord of Tresendar manor was killed when an invasion of orcs emerged from under the manor. When my PCs played through that part I added that there was a narrow passage at one end of the deep crevasse that led even deeper into the ground, and eventually to a deep hole that descended to the Underdark, thus explaining where the orcs originally came from.
You could use a similar device to either add more enemies if they kill the nothic to easil by having undead or even more nothics climb up out of the crevasse.
That's a good idea, I might work it in as part of their larger overarching quest which involves an inter-dimensional library, they don't know it yet but the book they are currently searching for (The Book of Greyhawk) has missing pages that are releasing bits of that reality into the game. At the moment they are just searching for one book but there are actually two that are there. I'm hoping to eventually suck them into one of the books but that's a little bit down the line story wise.
Eleven players is way too large a group for any Dungeon Master, so I commend you for sticking to it. With so many players you risk there being tension at your table with everyone sharing the limelight. That being said, here are some things I would try if in your shoes to speed things along.
Don't Use Miniatures - Use Narrative Combat I find that when I use narrative combat that it moves a lot faster. Let the table know that to speed things along, you'll be describing what's happening. Write down on a piece of paper all of the monsters they're fighting where they can see it and let them describe how they attack each one. Let players know that on their turn they merely need to describe what their character is doing and to which monster: "Cassandra runs up to the Orc and slashes at him with her sword."
Combine Attack + Damage Rolls Ask your players to get into the habit of rolling both the attack and damage dice in a single roll -- that way they aren't having to go through their dice rolling ritual again after you declare they hit their target: "For Cassandra's attack, I rolled an 18 with 10 damage." If you want to speed things up even more, tell them the monsters' AC and ask them to announce whether they hit or not.
Use Low-HP Mobs Narratively speaking, a group of monsters that's smaller than your band of adventurers likely wouldn't want to start a fight (they'd probably flee at the sight of 11 armed adventurers ready to spill blood). That said, you need to create encounters where your party is outnumbered, which will require you to use low HP monsters more often than usual. Have them fight a swarm of kobolds, a cave of bats, or a warband of goblins, and let them enjoy the thrill of cutting through them all like a well coordinated fighting unit. Avoid creating encounters with fewer monsters with high hit point totals as it will slow down the story. That said...
Split Up Monster Initiatives If your players encounter 20 kobolds in a den, split them up into 5 groups of 4 with their own unique initiative. That way, you'll have more turns to break up the players' rhythm. Let two players act, then have the kobolds act; then another four players act, then more kobolds; and then another five players, and then the last group of kobolds. If you're not showing them the initiative order, don't be afraid to fudge things a little behind the screen to keep it interesting.
Eleven players is way too large a group for any Dungeon Master, so I commend you for sticking to it. With so many players you risk there being tension at your table with everyone sharing the limelight. That being said, here are some things I would try if in your shoes to speed things along.
Don't Use Miniatures - Use Narrative Combat I find that when I use narrative combat that it moves a lot faster. Let the table know that to speed things along, you'll be describing what's happening. Write down on a piece of paper all of the monsters they're fighting where they can see it and let them describe how they attack each one. Let players know that on their turn they merely need to describe what their character is doing and to which monster: "Cassandra runs up to the Orc and slashes at him with her sword."
Combine Attack + Damage Rolls Ask your players to get into the habit of rolling both the attack and damage dice in a single roll -- that way they aren't having to go through their dice rolling ritual again after you declare they hit their target: "For Cassandra's attack, I rolled an 18 with 10 damage." If you want to speed things up even more, tell them the monsters' AC and ask them to announce whether they hit or not.
Use Low-HP Mobs Narratively speaking, a group of monsters that's smaller than your band of adventurers likely wouldn't want to start a fight (they'd probably flee at the sight of 11 armed adventurers ready to spill blood). That said, you need to create encounters where your party is outnumbered, which will require you to use low HP monsters more often than usual. Have them fight a swarm of kobolds, a cave of bats, or a warband of goblins, and let them enjoy the thrill of cutting through them all like a well coordinated fighting unit. Avoid creating encounters with fewer monsters with high hit point totals as it will slow down the story. That said...
Split Up Monster Initiatives If your players encounter 20 kobolds in a den, split them up into 5 groups of 4 with their own unique initiative. That way, you'll have more turns to break up the players' rhythm. Let two players act, then have the kobolds act; then another four players act, then more kobolds; and then another five players, and then the last group of kobolds. If you're not showing them the initiative order, don't be afraid to fudge things a little behind the screen to keep it interesting.
These are great additions, I'm not used to miniature combat but I have only used it so far for "Boss Battle" style combat. I am definitely using that attack and dmg roll together, that idea will speed things up immensely, I will have to dig through the monster guide a bit more for the LMoP because I am running it pretty straight to the narrative, except for the added quest for an overarching campaign. I guess I will beef up the bandits and skeleton encounters, and keep it similar to what I did for the goblin encounter (I just piled on the goblins). Thank you for all the great advice, hopefully one of these days I'll be able to return the favor to you guys.
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Hi everyone,
I previously posted about running a couple of games, and I am now two sessions into the one I am running for my coworkers. For the sake of brevity, I will try to keep the back story short. I decided to do a team building exercise/create content for our YouTube channel at my job, I work at a library so most of the players are librarians and circulation supervisors I have some original content (their main quest) but I am integrating it with published adventures they are currently running "Lost Mine of Phandelvar" and it's going great.
Here's my question, the group is huge. In the 90s I'd have a maximum group of 4 players for a table top game. I currently have 11 players and I just want to make sure I keep the monster encounters tough, and the pace of the game fun and fast. I've been using D&D beyond to keep track of monster stats etc. (I totally messed up first game), I am not looking for tools per say, I think there are plenty of great suggestions posted here already. I wanted to pick your brains to see what I should do run the game, I guess better and smarter. They just finished "Goblin Arrows" and are moving on to Phandalin, and I am wondering if I should just double the monsters (that seemed to work better in the first part), or if I should introduce other elements to keep it interesting.
Also, how should I handle some late starters, three of my players started late, I was able to work one of them in and thought I had the other one squared away as well but the player left in the middle in the game so I had their character run screaming from the cave. Everyone else has hit level two, except the one who left early and the other one who keeps having problems showing up (not their fault just a bunch of terrible circumstances).
Also worried about the player who left level of dedicating to playing, I gave them all the info to read and use and have been frequently updating them with new information weekly but they don't seem to actually be reading the material. What would be a good way to handle that situation?
Thanks in advance and I am sorry if I am cluttering the space with a repeat question, not intentional.
Honestly I think you may need to split it into 2 different games. 11+ people is rather insane to try to run as one group (if I've understood your post correctly).
While adding more enemies, or beefing up the existing enemies will make the encounters more challenging, with that many players it's also likely to bog down combat and make it longer.
If you insist on keeping all 11+ players as one group, I recommend deputizing at least two players to help keep track of things in combat, like deputy DMs whose job it is to make sue all the players stay on track during combat. Make them responsible for tracking initiative, as well as looking up rules on DDB if/when they come up in combat so you can focus on the encounter.
Maybe get a white board? Have someone whose job it is to take all session notes.
If you do decide to split it in to two groups, you can either run them through the same adventure, or different adventures in the same campaign so that their groups might occasionally cross over, or certain players can "guest star" from time to time in the other group's story.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Yes, it's 11/10 people right now I am now having to decline other libraries who are asking to join the game. I honestly thought that some people would drop out before the game got started but I didn't realize everyone was so interested in playing. I'm in a quandary because I want everyone to have a good time and I'm mostly good at keeping track of initiative and so are they.
Because of the newness of Library D&D and the convincing I had to do to get this approved, if I decided to do that there wouldn't be a split party some people would just be out and not able to play until I prove the game is "viable" as a team building program. It is insane, and combat is slower but so far they do work pretty cohesively as a team. There are two people who I think I could ask to be deputy DMs they have already been super helpful with keeping track etc.
I think I might use the white board idea, to keep track, I got an idea form DM Scottys page about keeping track of spell slots with poker chips for everyone.
When running a table with a large number of players, I have always found it easier to scale-up a smaller number of foes for them to be challenged by than to scale the number of foes.
So, as an example, where an adventure written assuming a normal-sized party might call for 3 wolves (a "hard" encounter for a 1st level party) I would probably change that to be 2 winter wolves without breath weapons, rather than add more wolves to reach similar level of challenge (which would be like 9 wolves) because it is easier to keep the game moving with 7 less things to keep track of.
My opinion on party experience: Ask your group of players if they feel that not being present to play is enough of a negative consequence for not being present to play, or if they also need the characters of people that missed out on some play time to be marginally weaker too. My experience is that, given the choice, most folks choose to consider missing play time enough of a drawback, so they don't mind every character staying at the same level of experience despite some of them having played for more time.
As to dedication... I don't think asking more of a person than to show up regularly, or at least be timely and clear with informing absences that will happen, and to be a team player (meaning work with the group of players so everyone has fun - not necessarily being an in-character team player) ever goes well. That means I encourage not expecting anyone to read anything, nor making someone feel unwelcome at the table because their level of interest and/or time available isn't as much as someone else. So I take a very relaxed stance on players showing up when they can, as long as when the player is present they are contributing to the group's shared enjoyment. If there is someone not contributing to the group's enjoyment, that's when I suggest immediate attention along the lines of helping the person find the ability to work with the group, or showing them the door.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
When you run the encounter under Tresendar Manor where the nothic is, remember that in the history of Phandalin, it is mentioned that the lord of Tresendar manor was killed when an invasion of orcs emerged from under the manor. When my PCs played through that part I added that there was a narrow passage at one end of the deep crevasse that led even deeper into the ground, and eventually to a deep hole that descended to the Underdark, thus explaining where the orcs originally came from.
You could use a similar device to either add more enemies if they kill the nothic to easil by having undead or even more nothics climb up out of the crevasse.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Here's a "secret menu" that opens up a lot of options during combat...
Grappling (part 2 Combat, PHB)
Shoving (part 2 Combat, PHB)
Falling Damage (part 2 Adventuring, PHB)
Improvised Damage (chapter 8, DMG)
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You've got yourself in quite a pickle, it seems.
Eleven players is way too large a group for any Dungeon Master, so I commend you for sticking to it. With so many players you risk there being tension at your table with everyone sharing the limelight. That being said, here are some things I would try if in your shoes to speed things along.
Don't Use Miniatures - Use Narrative Combat
I find that when I use narrative combat that it moves a lot faster. Let the table know that to speed things along, you'll be describing what's happening. Write down on a piece of paper all of the monsters they're fighting where they can see it and let them describe how they attack each one. Let players know that on their turn they merely need to describe what their character is doing and to which monster: "Cassandra runs up to the Orc and slashes at him with her sword."
Combine Attack + Damage Rolls
Ask your players to get into the habit of rolling both the attack and damage dice in a single roll -- that way they aren't having to go through their dice rolling ritual again after you declare they hit their target: "For Cassandra's attack, I rolled an 18 with 10 damage."
If you want to speed things up even more, tell them the monsters' AC and ask them to announce whether they hit or not.
Use Low-HP Mobs
Narratively speaking, a group of monsters that's smaller than your band of adventurers likely wouldn't want to start a fight (they'd probably flee at the sight of 11 armed adventurers ready to spill blood). That said, you need to create encounters where your party is outnumbered, which will require you to use low HP monsters more often than usual. Have them fight a swarm of kobolds, a cave of bats, or a warband of goblins, and let them enjoy the thrill of cutting through them all like a well coordinated fighting unit. Avoid creating encounters with fewer monsters with high hit point totals as it will slow down the story. That said...
Split Up Monster Initiatives
If your players encounter 20 kobolds in a den, split them up into 5 groups of 4 with their own unique initiative. That way, you'll have more turns to break up the players' rhythm. Let two players act, then have the kobolds act; then another four players act, then more kobolds; and then another five players, and then the last group of kobolds. If you're not showing them the initiative order, don't be afraid to fudge things a little behind the screen to keep it interesting.
I am definitely using that attack and dmg roll together, that idea will speed things up immensely, I will have to dig through the monster guide a bit more for the LMoP because I am running it pretty straight to the narrative, except for the added quest for an overarching campaign. I guess I will beef up the bandits and skeleton encounters, and keep it similar to what I did for the goblin encounter (I just piled on the goblins). Thank you for all the great advice, hopefully one of these days I'll be able to return the favor to you guys.