So I had just gotten my campaign back on track (after some player drama) when a new problem presented itself. Storywise, while my players were off adventuring, some of their rivals assasinated the local Duke (who was friendly with the characters) and there was a succession crisis and power struggle. My players are the principals of a mercenary company and one of them volunteered to roleplay through how their underlings would have navigated this crisis while the players were away. He... did not do well. I won't go through every painstaking detail, but he backed the weaker candidate, did nothing to aid the weaker candidate, alienated some of the neutral parties, convinced the weaker candidate not to seek a peaceful resolution even when all chance of victory was lost, ultimately got the weaker candidate killed, continued to fight with the victors even when there was nothing left to fight about, and basically has left their mercenary company in a terrible position and gained the enmity of the new local ruler.
To make matters worse, my most engaged player and most immersive roleplayer has become convinced that there is a larger conspiracy at work here. He thinks he is just supposed to THINK their rivals assasinated the Duke and that in truth many of the local nobles were involved and none can be trusted. So naturally this Thief/Burglar character has decided he is going to try to Splinter Cell all the local nobles. He is going to sneak into all of their keeps, starting with the new Duke, and murder everyone.
Now, even if I wanted to, I cannot let him pull this off. If the players can just sneak into every fortress on the map, murderknife all the guards, nobles, their families, their cooks, servants, gardeners, etc, then move onto the next and repeat, then all pretense of balance is lost. They may as well just murder everyone in the kingdom and declare themselves kings. That said, my player is 100% committed to this even if it is a suicide mission. So I am going to try to make the best of it and let him send his character (which all of us really enjoy) off with a bang. But that means I need to build an adventure around this so we can play it through.
Here is what he has going for him...
- Most of the forces are off pursuing the parties believed to be responsible for killing the old Duke (which is totally legit by the way. My player is way off the rails with his paranoid conspiracy theories) so there will be fewer guards then normal.
- He is a level 10 Thief.
- He has the following items at his disposal: +1 Dagger; Belt which gives advantage on hide attempts when in low light or darkness; a magic flag which appears to onlookers as the banner or symbol of a group they are friendly with ("False Flag"); a magic book which can be made to look like an official document of the user's choice as an action; slippers of spider climb; a slew of poisons he lifted off the body of an assassin that had tried to kill him a few sessions ago (maybe part of why he is so paranoid).
His plan is 1) use the book to appear as though he has been given orders to assume control of security inside the keep. 2) Begin murdering everyone. Or, if the book does not work, use his slippers and belt to hide inside the keep and then sneak around picking people off one by one like MGS or Splinter Cell. Which is a problem because I can totally see this player thinking it is fun to spend the next handful of game sessions sneaking around this keep on his own killing people but I do not have time and the other players want to keep the rest of the game going.
So... my question I pose to the noble forums: How can I set this up to let my player feel he is getting his monies worth on this last hurrah suicide mission, without 1) letting him solo all the nobility in the region 2) waste more than one or two good sessions of play 3) break the game or destroy the illusion of balance?
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PC - Ethel - Human - Lvl 4 Necromancer - Undying Dragons * Serge Marshblade - Human - Lvl 5 Eldritch Knight - Hoard of the Dragon Queen
DM -(Homebrew) Heroes of Bardstown *Red Dead Annihilation: ToA *Where the Cold Winds Blow : DoIP * Covetous, Dragonish Thoughts: HotDQ * Red Wine, Black Rose: CoS * Greyhawk: Tides of War
For speed: Noble Banquet where all nobles are in attendance as a celebration of that noble winning the election, this will be a heavily armored fortress with a bunch of guards but key points where it is possible to sneak in. Also you could have all nobles in one room with one or two guards because everyone else is outside, or have the nobles wander around and be easy to assassinate. All the guards will be notified soon after and then the assassin could go out fighting. There's no chance he could kill all the nobles in one go as the guards would soon be after him, but hey, it could be fun if he's sneaky about it.
I don't think it would be unreasonable that in such a time of turmoil there are enhanced security features around, especially if nobility are dying over a succession. Magical sentries, rigid structure regarding orders, etc.
Depending on the level of noble he's attacking and the security said noble could afford: sure, he can attempt to pass his orders off as though he's the now in charge of security.... this random individual whom none of the guards know about. Until they confirm said orders with magical detection and calling on higher ranked individuals. He can also try to hide, but must also now avoid the random Arcane Eye or some similar spell.
Nothing that can't be defeated, but will rely heavily on his skills to outwit and outroll what he comes across.
First, why are you stopping him? If he wants to try it, the plan should succeed or fail on its merits and the luck of the die. If he pulls it off, I imagine there’s some chaos, but then the characters need to deal with the chaos. I get that it may mess up your plot, but that’s what players do, they mess up plots. I mean, if they declare themselves Kings, ok, now they have to run a kingdom and fight off the neighbors who see weakness during the transition.
Besides that, have you tried proving to the character that his theory is wrong? Like he finds some document or overhears a conversation (maybe in the house of the first noble he’s try to kill, before he kills the guy) that proves there was no conspiracy, and now he needs to sneak back out.
Or if the player understands its a suicide mission, then tell him, ok, you’re dead, now just roll up a new character and find a way to add him to the party. Then, the old character becomes an NPC you can use. Maybe he succeeds at one or two (whichever would present the most interesting story options), but then gets thrown in the dungeon at the third where he’s brainwashed and becomes an enemy of the party. Maybe he recruits others to his cause and becomes a new faction.
Every noble in this realm will be paranoid after the assassination of the duke. They will have enhanced defenses, more guards and magical defenses. The alarm spell can detect the rogue whether he is hidden or not and even if he has advantage on hide checks ... he can't hide if the creature he is trying to hide from can see him.
Could the rogue kill some folks? Likely but at some point he is likely to be seen, perhaps even more likely to be identified. How you ask? Well, clerical divination spells have a purpose. Speak with dead has a purpose. How is this character going to remain completely unseen by any opponents? Raise dead is a thing. The only reason the old duke isn't back already is likely because no one wants him back, otherwise he would probably be raised already or maybe revivified if the duke's cleric got to him soon enough. Keeping a character or NPC dead in D&D is challenging when they don't need to stay dead.
So - the rogue starts on his killing rampage. If he doesn't specifically tell you that he is taking actions to remain unidentified he may not even realize that a quick speak with dead will net the other nobles a good description of the killer. Since the characters are known in the realm, he will likely be identified. This will then point the finger of the murderer of the duke straight at the characters and the adventuring company they operate. The one that is now disliked by so many of the nobles of the realm. The mercenary company kills the duke to cause chaos hoping to take power from the resulting power vacuum. They pretend to support a weak contender to sow more chaos. While the army runs out on a wild goose chase, the mercenary company continues their program of assassination.
The nobles must recall the army and concentrate their forces to eliminate this threat by killing all members of this mercenary company. Whoever the real killers are will push this story for all they are worth AND the characters play right into their hands by going out and killing nobles. It is absolutely perfect in its stupidity. Honestly, this seems to me to be the most likely interpretation of the character actions killing nobles and their houses from the NPC perspective. I think the characters should essentially be forced to flee or die if they decide to follow this course of action unless in your world it is reasonable for a small group of characters to kill every noble in the realm despite their protections both mundane and magical.
REALLY appreciate the feedback. I wish I had found this forum for the first few months I was running this campaign.
I should clarify... it is not that I don't want him to succeed. It is that, by succeeding, it would render the entire game a little pointless. Why are my players out adventuring and risking their lives fighting monsters if they can simply murder the whole government in their sleep and take over? And if it was a great plan and they wanted to put some work into it that would be one thing... but if it was just "I abhor these conspirators and I won't suffer them to live one moment longer aaaaargh!" then that isn't something I think I should reward by fudging the rolls to support it.
And no, my players somehow have no idea what Alarm is. They cannot figure out where the loud whistle (how I chose to manifest an auditory Alarm spell in my game) comes from sometimes when they are breaking into manors or sneaking up on an enemy fortification. They have expressed their theory that there is an invisible spy following them who sometimes gives away their movements with a loud whistle.
So... change of plans. My other players talked COMMANDO ROGUE out of his suicide mission but now they have come up with something much worse... but likely much more fun. A while back they came across an NPC who was in possession of a magical box that was bound to/controlled an ice devil. They wanted nothing to do with this weirdo at the time but now they have a plan. They are going to get this NPC to summon the ice devil and kill... the nobles who supported them/their preferred candidate. They plan to make the devil say incriminating things such that the nobles are being punished for failing to support the new Duke earlier in the crisis. They will also "target" themselves and have the devil trash their offices and have even indicated they are willing to sacrifice some of their rank and file soldiers to sell this. Among the dead nobles' belongings they will plant correspondence to make it look like these nobles suspected the new Duke of trafficking with evil powers and this is why they were hesitant to support him from the onset.
They will "defeat" the devil in the plaza of the noble district in town (devil will be dismissed/ordered to take a dive). Depending on how things play out they will:
- Try to convince surviving nobles (who had supported the new duke) that the new Duke is a diabolist
- Try to solicit backing from the heirs of the nobility the devil killed (on their orders he he he); they will also reach out to the extended relations of the candidate who was killed in the power struggle to see if they can put forth a new contender for the title; if this works they will try to have a new government set up in opposition to the new Duke before he returns with the army.
- If all of that fails...they are owed some favors in neighboring lands. They may reach out with word of how they were targeted and see if they can obtain foreign aid or even provoke an invasion while the army is away
- Or Failing that, see if the townfolk can be pushed to riot after the devil attack and see what kind of hay they can make from the chaos as they flee.
Not the greatest plan but it should be pretty crazy. A few obvious problems...
- Better make the instructions to the devil crystal clear and with no room for interpretation. It could derail their plan 110 different ways if they leave it an opening.
- This plan has some alignment problems for the party. I have 3 chaotic neutral characters and 1 chaotic good. They like to play chaotic neutral as "free to do whatever the situation calls for with no hang-ups." In our zero session I told them I was not going to be an alignment hawk but that if they ever did something truly heinous (moreso for the chaotic good character but also for the neutrals) that there would be consequences. I think summoning a devil to terrorize a town and even kill some of their own followers qualifies. I'm not sure what I will do. I am thinking about letting a few friendly NPC's stumble onto the plan... they won;t betray the group but will just be openly horrified that they would do something like this.
- They still don't have a plan for the new Duke and his army which is still out in the field chasing the real killers (and in fact, doing some cleanup work on the "act 1" villains that my players didn't bother to do). COMMANDO ROGUE is leaning toward "suicide mission-lite" and going out to take him on solo. This runs the risk of undoing a lot of their work with the devil, however. They have also considered sending the devil out to "report on its mission" to the new Duke in front of some other nobles. As DM I have an ace I may be able to play... there is a high level necromancer inserted into their mercenary company to spy on them for some of the real bad guys. While he is their enemy, they have a common interest in unseating the new Duke and keeping the region chaotic. If my group fails to come up with a good plan or if their plan fails, I can have Necro-baddie do some cleanup for them. That might be best, because I can leave them some clues pointing back to Necro-baddie and set them up to realize they have been infiltrated.
- In addition to their mercenary company they have been investing in and training some of the local peasants to use either shortsword/shield or spear/shield and showing them some mixed unit tactics. One of my player characters has encountered a doomsday cult and he believes an apocalypse is coming so he is hellbent on training the citizenry to defend themselves in case the land is plunged into a new dark age. This already had them receiving pressure from local nobility to knock it off (armed peasants? no thanks). Yet, so far they have not given any thought to trying to utilize this semi-competent peasant militia in any of the plans.
All in all... It is going to be chaotic, messy, bloody, a little too evil... but it should be a lot of fun if I can keep all of the plates spinning and keep them all engaged.
Any ideas for hooks/roadblocks I can send at them... not enough to defeat the plan but maybe just enough to keep them racing and off balance? I think for this to work they need to be on the edge of their seat, not expecting to pull this off until the dust settles.
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PC - Ethel - Human - Lvl 4 Necromancer - Undying Dragons * Serge Marshblade - Human - Lvl 5 Eldritch Knight - Hoard of the Dragon Queen
DM -(Homebrew) Heroes of Bardstown *Red Dead Annihilation: ToA *Where the Cold Winds Blow : DoIP * Covetous, Dragonish Thoughts: HotDQ * Red Wine, Black Rose: CoS * Greyhawk: Tides of War
It is that, by succeeding, it would render the entire game a little pointless. Why are my players out adventuring and risking their lives fighting monsters if they can simply murder the whole government in their sleep and take over?
Not to belabor this discussion, because it seems like you've got a solution. But you've just described every D&D game ever. Once players reach a certain level, they pretty much could take over most small kingdoms, and some large ones. Generally, it can be good to prepare for the eventuality.
The reasons why they don't can be several. One, the governments know there there are people running around with more-or-less superpowers, and they take appropriate precautions. (hire other superpowered folks, make friends with them, have lots of traps and guards and anti-magic fields, etc.) 2. the characters are invested enough in the overall plot and trying to save the world that they don't have time to deal with something as boring as running a country. 3. If they do, it doesn't render the game pointless, it just changes it (Now they have a kingdom's resources to help them beat the BBEG).
It is that, by succeeding, it would render the entire game a little pointless. Why are my players out adventuring and risking their lives fighting monsters if they can simply murder the whole government in their sleep and take over?
Not to belabor this discussion, because it seems like you've got a solution. But you've just described every D&D game ever. Once players reach a certain level, they pretty much could take over most small kingdoms, and some large ones. Generally, it can be good to prepare for the eventuality.
The reasons why they don't can be several. One, the governments know there there are people running around with more-or-less superpowers, and they take appropriate precautions. (hire other superpowered folks, make friends with them, have lots of traps and guards and anti-magic fields, etc.) 2. the characters are invested enough in the overall plot and trying to save the world that they don't have time to deal with something as boring as running a country. 3. If they do, it doesn't render the game pointless, it just changes it (Now they have a kingdom's resources to help them beat the BBEG).
Fair enough. I appreciate the perspective. This is my first attempt at DM and I bit off way more than I could chew. Homebrew setting, group of players who are family (love each other but also constantly compete/try to outdo one another/try to secretly have the other players' character assassinated), never actually PLAYED D&D before so my understanding of the rules was weak to begin with... etc.
Perhaps this was a failure of imagination on my part. If I ever write another one I will be sure to either build in some reasons why they might not want to take over the country... or at least map out where I can take the plot if they do. Frankly, if they pulled off a complete takeover in this game it might actually help the plot... where it would cause problems is with the micromanagement of the game world and the meta narrative. I would need to figure out how the land functions now when there is no central authority ( I know my players... if they took over it would be anarchy or kleptocracy). Bandits everywhere... no one putting out fires... crops wasting away in the fields... And the greater narrative was they have been trying to either prevent or prepare for this potential end-of-the-world type disaster on the horizon. It would really take the urgency away if my players destroy the world long before BBEG gets a chance. But maybe that's the point... maybe that's how this movie ends? Food for thought.
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PC - Ethel - Human - Lvl 4 Necromancer - Undying Dragons * Serge Marshblade - Human - Lvl 5 Eldritch Knight - Hoard of the Dragon Queen
DM -(Homebrew) Heroes of Bardstown *Red Dead Annihilation: ToA *Where the Cold Winds Blow : DoIP * Covetous, Dragonish Thoughts: HotDQ * Red Wine, Black Rose: CoS * Greyhawk: Tides of War
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So I had just gotten my campaign back on track (after some player drama) when a new problem presented itself. Storywise, while my players were off adventuring, some of their rivals assasinated the local Duke (who was friendly with the characters) and there was a succession crisis and power struggle. My players are the principals of a mercenary company and one of them volunteered to roleplay through how their underlings would have navigated this crisis while the players were away. He... did not do well. I won't go through every painstaking detail, but he backed the weaker candidate, did nothing to aid the weaker candidate, alienated some of the neutral parties, convinced the weaker candidate not to seek a peaceful resolution even when all chance of victory was lost, ultimately got the weaker candidate killed, continued to fight with the victors even when there was nothing left to fight about, and basically has left their mercenary company in a terrible position and gained the enmity of the new local ruler.
To make matters worse, my most engaged player and most immersive roleplayer has become convinced that there is a larger conspiracy at work here. He thinks he is just supposed to THINK their rivals assasinated the Duke and that in truth many of the local nobles were involved and none can be trusted. So naturally this Thief/Burglar character has decided he is going to try to Splinter Cell all the local nobles. He is going to sneak into all of their keeps, starting with the new Duke, and murder everyone.
Now, even if I wanted to, I cannot let him pull this off. If the players can just sneak into every fortress on the map, murderknife all the guards, nobles, their families, their cooks, servants, gardeners, etc, then move onto the next and repeat, then all pretense of balance is lost. They may as well just murder everyone in the kingdom and declare themselves kings. That said, my player is 100% committed to this even if it is a suicide mission. So I am going to try to make the best of it and let him send his character (which all of us really enjoy) off with a bang. But that means I need to build an adventure around this so we can play it through.
Here is what he has going for him...
- Most of the forces are off pursuing the parties believed to be responsible for killing the old Duke (which is totally legit by the way. My player is way off the rails with his paranoid conspiracy theories) so there will be fewer guards then normal.
- He is a level 10 Thief.
- He has the following items at his disposal: +1 Dagger; Belt which gives advantage on hide attempts when in low light or darkness; a magic flag which appears to onlookers as the banner or symbol of a group they are friendly with ("False Flag"); a magic book which can be made to look like an official document of the user's choice as an action; slippers of spider climb; a slew of poisons he lifted off the body of an assassin that had tried to kill him a few sessions ago (maybe part of why he is so paranoid).
His plan is 1) use the book to appear as though he has been given orders to assume control of security inside the keep. 2) Begin murdering everyone. Or, if the book does not work, use his slippers and belt to hide inside the keep and then sneak around picking people off one by one like MGS or Splinter Cell. Which is a problem because I can totally see this player thinking it is fun to spend the next handful of game sessions sneaking around this keep on his own killing people but I do not have time and the other players want to keep the rest of the game going.
So... my question I pose to the noble forums: How can I set this up to let my player feel he is getting his monies worth on this last hurrah suicide mission, without 1) letting him solo all the nobility in the region 2) waste more than one or two good sessions of play 3) break the game or destroy the illusion of balance?
PC - Ethel - Human - Lvl 4 Necromancer - Undying Dragons * Serge Marshblade - Human - Lvl 5 Eldritch Knight - Hoard of the Dragon Queen
DM - (Homebrew) Heroes of Bardstown * Red Dead Annihilation: ToA * Where the Cold Winds Blow : DoIP * Covetous, Dragonish Thoughts: HotDQ * Red Wine, Black Rose: CoS * Greyhawk: Tides of War
Well...
For speed: Noble Banquet where all nobles are in attendance as a celebration of that noble winning the election, this will be a heavily armored fortress with a bunch of guards but key points where it is possible to sneak in. Also you could have all nobles in one room with one or two guards because everyone else is outside, or have the nobles wander around and be easy to assassinate. All the guards will be notified soon after and then the assassin could go out fighting. There's no chance he could kill all the nobles in one go as the guards would soon be after him, but hey, it could be fun if he's sneaky about it.
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I don't think it would be unreasonable that in such a time of turmoil there are enhanced security features around, especially if nobility are dying over a succession. Magical sentries, rigid structure regarding orders, etc.
Depending on the level of noble he's attacking and the security said noble could afford: sure, he can attempt to pass his orders off as though he's the now in charge of security.... this random individual whom none of the guards know about. Until they confirm said orders with magical detection and calling on higher ranked individuals. He can also try to hide, but must also now avoid the random Arcane Eye or some similar spell.
Nothing that can't be defeated, but will rely heavily on his skills to outwit and outroll what he comes across.
First, why are you stopping him? If he wants to try it, the plan should succeed or fail on its merits and the luck of the die. If he pulls it off, I imagine there’s some chaos, but then the characters need to deal with the chaos. I get that it may mess up your plot, but that’s what players do, they mess up plots. I mean, if they declare themselves Kings, ok, now they have to run a kingdom and fight off the neighbors who see weakness during the transition.
Besides that, have you tried proving to the character that his theory is wrong? Like he finds some document or overhears a conversation (maybe in the house of the first noble he’s try to kill, before he kills the guy) that proves there was no conspiracy, and now he needs to sneak back out.
Or if the player understands its a suicide mission, then tell him, ok, you’re dead, now just roll up a new character and find a way to add him to the party. Then, the old character becomes an NPC you can use. Maybe he succeeds at one or two (whichever would present the most interesting story options), but then gets thrown in the dungeon at the third where he’s brainwashed and becomes an enemy of the party. Maybe he recruits others to his cause and becomes a new faction.
Every noble in this realm will be paranoid after the assassination of the duke. They will have enhanced defenses, more guards and magical defenses. The alarm spell can detect the rogue whether he is hidden or not and even if he has advantage on hide checks ... he can't hide if the creature he is trying to hide from can see him.
Could the rogue kill some folks? Likely but at some point he is likely to be seen, perhaps even more likely to be identified. How you ask? Well, clerical divination spells have a purpose. Speak with dead has a purpose. How is this character going to remain completely unseen by any opponents? Raise dead is a thing. The only reason the old duke isn't back already is likely because no one wants him back, otherwise he would probably be raised already or maybe revivified if the duke's cleric got to him soon enough. Keeping a character or NPC dead in D&D is challenging when they don't need to stay dead.
So - the rogue starts on his killing rampage. If he doesn't specifically tell you that he is taking actions to remain unidentified he may not even realize that a quick speak with dead will net the other nobles a good description of the killer. Since the characters are known in the realm, he will likely be identified. This will then point the finger of the murderer of the duke straight at the characters and the adventuring company they operate. The one that is now disliked by so many of the nobles of the realm. The mercenary company kills the duke to cause chaos hoping to take power from the resulting power vacuum. They pretend to support a weak contender to sow more chaos. While the army runs out on a wild goose chase, the mercenary company continues their program of assassination.
The nobles must recall the army and concentrate their forces to eliminate this threat by killing all members of this mercenary company. Whoever the real killers are will push this story for all they are worth AND the characters play right into their hands by going out and killing nobles. It is absolutely perfect in its stupidity. Honestly, this seems to me to be the most likely interpretation of the character actions killing nobles and their houses from the NPC perspective. I think the characters should essentially be forced to flee or die if they decide to follow this course of action unless in your world it is reasonable for a small group of characters to kill every noble in the realm despite their protections both mundane and magical.
REALLY appreciate the feedback. I wish I had found this forum for the first few months I was running this campaign.
I should clarify... it is not that I don't want him to succeed. It is that, by succeeding, it would render the entire game a little pointless. Why are my players out adventuring and risking their lives fighting monsters if they can simply murder the whole government in their sleep and take over? And if it was a great plan and they wanted to put some work into it that would be one thing... but if it was just "I abhor these conspirators and I won't suffer them to live one moment longer aaaaargh!" then that isn't something I think I should reward by fudging the rolls to support it.
And no, my players somehow have no idea what Alarm is. They cannot figure out where the loud whistle (how I chose to manifest an auditory Alarm spell in my game) comes from sometimes when they are breaking into manors or sneaking up on an enemy fortification. They have expressed their theory that there is an invisible spy following them who sometimes gives away their movements with a loud whistle.
So... change of plans. My other players talked COMMANDO ROGUE out of his suicide mission but now they have come up with something much worse... but likely much more fun. A while back they came across an NPC who was in possession of a magical box that was bound to/controlled an ice devil. They wanted nothing to do with this weirdo at the time but now they have a plan. They are going to get this NPC to summon the ice devil and kill... the nobles who supported them/their preferred candidate. They plan to make the devil say incriminating things such that the nobles are being punished for failing to support the new Duke earlier in the crisis. They will also "target" themselves and have the devil trash their offices and have even indicated they are willing to sacrifice some of their rank and file soldiers to sell this. Among the dead nobles' belongings they will plant correspondence to make it look like these nobles suspected the new Duke of trafficking with evil powers and this is why they were hesitant to support him from the onset.
They will "defeat" the devil in the plaza of the noble district in town (devil will be dismissed/ordered to take a dive). Depending on how things play out they will:
- Try to convince surviving nobles (who had supported the new duke) that the new Duke is a diabolist
- Try to solicit backing from the heirs of the nobility the devil killed (on their orders he he he); they will also reach out to the extended relations of the candidate who was killed in the power struggle to see if they can put forth a new contender for the title; if this works they will try to have a new government set up in opposition to the new Duke before he returns with the army.
- If all of that fails...they are owed some favors in neighboring lands. They may reach out with word of how they were targeted and see if they can obtain foreign aid or even provoke an invasion while the army is away
- Or Failing that, see if the townfolk can be pushed to riot after the devil attack and see what kind of hay they can make from the chaos as they flee.
Not the greatest plan but it should be pretty crazy. A few obvious problems...
- Better make the instructions to the devil crystal clear and with no room for interpretation. It could derail their plan 110 different ways if they leave it an opening.
- This plan has some alignment problems for the party. I have 3 chaotic neutral characters and 1 chaotic good. They like to play chaotic neutral as "free to do whatever the situation calls for with no hang-ups." In our zero session I told them I was not going to be an alignment hawk but that if they ever did something truly heinous (moreso for the chaotic good character but also for the neutrals) that there would be consequences. I think summoning a devil to terrorize a town and even kill some of their own followers qualifies. I'm not sure what I will do. I am thinking about letting a few friendly NPC's stumble onto the plan... they won;t betray the group but will just be openly horrified that they would do something like this.
- They still don't have a plan for the new Duke and his army which is still out in the field chasing the real killers (and in fact, doing some cleanup work on the "act 1" villains that my players didn't bother to do). COMMANDO ROGUE is leaning toward "suicide mission-lite" and going out to take him on solo. This runs the risk of undoing a lot of their work with the devil, however. They have also considered sending the devil out to "report on its mission" to the new Duke in front of some other nobles. As DM I have an ace I may be able to play... there is a high level necromancer inserted into their mercenary company to spy on them for some of the real bad guys. While he is their enemy, they have a common interest in unseating the new Duke and keeping the region chaotic. If my group fails to come up with a good plan or if their plan fails, I can have Necro-baddie do some cleanup for them. That might be best, because I can leave them some clues pointing back to Necro-baddie and set them up to realize they have been infiltrated.
- In addition to their mercenary company they have been investing in and training some of the local peasants to use either shortsword/shield or spear/shield and showing them some mixed unit tactics. One of my player characters has encountered a doomsday cult and he believes an apocalypse is coming so he is hellbent on training the citizenry to defend themselves in case the land is plunged into a new dark age. This already had them receiving pressure from local nobility to knock it off (armed peasants? no thanks). Yet, so far they have not given any thought to trying to utilize this semi-competent peasant militia in any of the plans.
All in all... It is going to be chaotic, messy, bloody, a little too evil... but it should be a lot of fun if I can keep all of the plates spinning and keep them all engaged.
Any ideas for hooks/roadblocks I can send at them... not enough to defeat the plan but maybe just enough to keep them racing and off balance? I think for this to work they need to be on the edge of their seat, not expecting to pull this off until the dust settles.
PC - Ethel - Human - Lvl 4 Necromancer - Undying Dragons * Serge Marshblade - Human - Lvl 5 Eldritch Knight - Hoard of the Dragon Queen
DM - (Homebrew) Heroes of Bardstown * Red Dead Annihilation: ToA * Where the Cold Winds Blow : DoIP * Covetous, Dragonish Thoughts: HotDQ * Red Wine, Black Rose: CoS * Greyhawk: Tides of War
Not to belabor this discussion, because it seems like you've got a solution. But you've just described every D&D game ever. Once players reach a certain level, they pretty much could take over most small kingdoms, and some large ones. Generally, it can be good to prepare for the eventuality.
The reasons why they don't can be several. One, the governments know there there are people running around with more-or-less superpowers, and they take appropriate precautions. (hire other superpowered folks, make friends with them, have lots of traps and guards and anti-magic fields, etc.) 2. the characters are invested enough in the overall plot and trying to save the world that they don't have time to deal with something as boring as running a country. 3. If they do, it doesn't render the game pointless, it just changes it (Now they have a kingdom's resources to help them beat the BBEG).
Fair enough. I appreciate the perspective. This is my first attempt at DM and I bit off way more than I could chew. Homebrew setting, group of players who are family (love each other but also constantly compete/try to outdo one another/try to secretly have the other players' character assassinated), never actually PLAYED D&D before so my understanding of the rules was weak to begin with... etc.
Perhaps this was a failure of imagination on my part. If I ever write another one I will be sure to either build in some reasons why they might not want to take over the country... or at least map out where I can take the plot if they do. Frankly, if they pulled off a complete takeover in this game it might actually help the plot... where it would cause problems is with the micromanagement of the game world and the meta narrative. I would need to figure out how the land functions now when there is no central authority ( I know my players... if they took over it would be anarchy or kleptocracy). Bandits everywhere... no one putting out fires... crops wasting away in the fields... And the greater narrative was they have been trying to either prevent or prepare for this potential end-of-the-world type disaster on the horizon. It would really take the urgency away if my players destroy the world long before BBEG gets a chance. But maybe that's the point... maybe that's how this movie ends? Food for thought.
PC - Ethel - Human - Lvl 4 Necromancer - Undying Dragons * Serge Marshblade - Human - Lvl 5 Eldritch Knight - Hoard of the Dragon Queen
DM - (Homebrew) Heroes of Bardstown * Red Dead Annihilation: ToA * Where the Cold Winds Blow : DoIP * Covetous, Dragonish Thoughts: HotDQ * Red Wine, Black Rose: CoS * Greyhawk: Tides of War