I'm trying to work out in the official module what the timings are on events that have already occurred. It's not clear as far as I can tell. Specifically (big campaign spoiler follows):-
How long in the past were Demogorgon and the other demon lords summoned? I know it's a question my players will ask.
I'm running Out of the Abyss right now and I don't think it really matters too much but my general sense is that it's probably fairly recently, like probably within the last year or so. Reading between the lines and with the info in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, Demon Princes typically start to warp their local environment after about a month - but no permanent portals to the Abyss have been opened, so they can't have been in the Prime Material that long.
I never really worked out an exact timeline because none of my players asked haha. I've been going since Mid-August last year, though we did Lost Mine of Phandelver first for about 10 sessions. I changed the plot a bit and had the Black Spider foreshadow the Out of the Abyss plot a little by using Wave Echo Cave to try to draw some demons out of the Abyss.
Right now, my party has almost made it back to the surface at Blingdenstone, after going through Neverlight Grove - they are going to meet the Pudding King next session. I'm going to give them a break from the main plot once they get back to the surface and let them explore for a bit before summoning them to Gauntlgrym. It's gone pretty well so far, nobody has died (although they almost killed themselves with a random fireball from the wild magic table). One comment on the actual module itself is that, RAW, you will have to go through so many random encounters to travel between places in the underdark - so I dropped that pretty quickly and allowed for a certain amount of fudging of distances, as otherwise they probably wouldn't have even made it to Neverlight Grove yet.
Interesting feedback and thanks. Yes, the distances are huge and there are limited random encounters, so I am planning on making the Underdark far less populated that the module indicates. I'm looking to intersperse the 4 mini-dungeons in Chapter 2 in between each settlement and then have 1-2 "random" encounters on the journey from any given settlement to any other settlement. We'll see how it works out.
Do you write up session notes in any publically available format? I'm always keen to read how other campaigns have gone for inspiration and ideas! :)
I actually had more or less the same plan as you about mixing in the 4 mini-dungeons in Chapter 2. I think that worked pretty well for me, as it was a bit more exciting and gave some opportunities to mix in some plot stuff.
I don't really keep particularly detailed session notes so haven't ever bothered to publish them anywhere, but this is a rough outline of what has happened so far;
After events of LMoP, Black Spider escapes mid-combat by teleportation circle scroll. Party doesn't try to track them down, instead restores Tresendar Manor as a Player Base
After a couple sessions of downtime stuff, Black Spider attacks with a band of Drow (for revenge). Goes badly for party, and they end up getting captured. (If they had won the fight, they would have found some correspondence on the Black Spider leading to some Underdark locations)
Party decide that Stool is the best thing ever, and resolve to travel directly to Neverlight Grove in order to get him back home
On the way to Neverlight Grove, the party finds the Lost Tomb of Khaem, which I use as an opportunity to drop a bit of Netheril into the campaign (I'm planning to make Netherese ruins more important than in the published module, as 2 of the PCs have taken an interest in them)
At Neverlight Grove, the party do some investigating, and the Hexblade begins to recieve visions from the Raven Queen. This eventually leads up to the final confrontation, where the Raven Queen sacrifices them to deliver shadow energy to the demonic fungi, foiling the plot. (I planned this out in conjunction with the player as they wanted to roll a new character)
Between Neverlight Grove and Blingdenstone, the party falls into the Oozing Temple to foreshadow the Pudding King stuff a little. (I changed encounter 5, Fountain of Madness, to have a mysterious sculpture at the centre of the room. The players could freely enter the room, but when they tried to leave, they had to make a DC15 Wisdom save or be entranced by the sculpture. If they failed 3 saves in a row, I was going to have some bad stuff happen - but they managed to get out of there before it did, by one player literally carrying someone else out of the room.)
If you are using a VTT or tracking movement on the map, I've found many of the maps in the module to not be particularly good. Most of them are not 5ft per square, so I've had to do a bit of work on basically all of them. Some are worse than others though, I've had to completely redesign Blingdenstone into a more traditional dungeon crawl in order for it to not be incredibly confusing on the VTT - so it's now Level 1, Outer Fortifications; Level 2, Settlement; Level 3, Goldwhisker Warrens; Level 4, Rockblight; Level 5, Pudding Court. I have put in plenty of shortcuts based on skill checks/sneaking to keep some of the ability to pick and choose what the party is going to do. If you are doing Theatre of the Mind, this shouldn't be a problem though.
More generally though, I think that the escape from the underdark has the potential to leave the players confused about what is going on, especially if they don't know much about the underdark outside of the game and/or they choose not to visit many of the locations in the underdark before leaving the first time. I'd definitely recommend tying in some of the mini-dungeons more strongly to the overall plot of the Demon Princes being brought forth, or having them find one of the major locations by accident (Sloobludop, Gracklstugh, or Neverlight Grove) - especially if it looks like your party is going to head straight for Blingdenstone.
Just kicked this off this week and in the first ten minutes, the elf fighter in my party tossed Ront over a rope bridge and down into the spiders, resulting in one munched orc. Ilvara was away chasing down some escaped goblin slaves when it happened (foreshadowing her obsession with chasing down escaped slaves so the PCs expect to be chased when they escape). She's now back and is about to make a painful example of the elf - teaching Asha how to most effectively use the Ray of Sickness by demonstrating it, repeatedly, on the elf. Next session is this evening so I am looking forward to that.
One thing I am considering is that happens after the campaign. Have you had a think about that? I know it's a long way off but I was wondering if there is any potential for trips into the Abyss to face Lloth, or if that is simply going too far...?
Post-campaign, I think going to the Abyss is a decent shout - something I had been considering was that Lolth's schemes had upset the balance in the Blood War, and caused lots of other groups to become involved. I haven't worked out the full details yet, but I was thinking some planescape type stuff where the characters end up in Sigil, meet various factions and start participating in a wider conflict across the outer planes.
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Hey gang,
I'm trying to work out in the official module what the timings are on events that have already occurred. It's not clear as far as I can tell. Specifically (big campaign spoiler follows):-
How long in the past were Demogorgon and the other demon lords summoned? I know it's a question my players will ask.
Thanks
Blakey
My Author Page: www.peterjblake.com
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour, Okoth's War and Callindrill
I'm running Out of the Abyss right now and I don't think it really matters too much but my general sense is that it's probably fairly recently, like probably within the last year or so. Reading between the lines and with the info in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, Demon Princes typically start to warp their local environment after about a month - but no permanent portals to the Abyss have been opened, so they can't have been in the Prime Material that long.
Thanks for the reply. I was thinking maybe 3 or so months ago. I take it you never worked out a precise timeline for this in your campaign then?
Otherwise, how is the campaign going and where are you up to? I'm about to start mine on Monday!
My Author Page: www.peterjblake.com
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour, Okoth's War and Callindrill
I never really worked out an exact timeline because none of my players asked haha. I've been going since Mid-August last year, though we did Lost Mine of Phandelver first for about 10 sessions. I changed the plot a bit and had the Black Spider foreshadow the Out of the Abyss plot a little by using Wave Echo Cave to try to draw some demons out of the Abyss.
Right now, my party has almost made it back to the surface at Blingdenstone, after going through Neverlight Grove - they are going to meet the Pudding King next session. I'm going to give them a break from the main plot once they get back to the surface and let them explore for a bit before summoning them to Gauntlgrym. It's gone pretty well so far, nobody has died (although they almost killed themselves with a random fireball from the wild magic table). One comment on the actual module itself is that, RAW, you will have to go through so many random encounters to travel between places in the underdark - so I dropped that pretty quickly and allowed for a certain amount of fudging of distances, as otherwise they probably wouldn't have even made it to Neverlight Grove yet.
Good luck with your campaign!
Interesting feedback and thanks. Yes, the distances are huge and there are limited random encounters, so I am planning on making the Underdark far less populated that the module indicates. I'm looking to intersperse the 4 mini-dungeons in Chapter 2 in between each settlement and then have 1-2 "random" encounters on the journey from any given settlement to any other settlement. We'll see how it works out.
Do you write up session notes in any publically available format? I'm always keen to read how other campaigns have gone for inspiration and ideas! :)
My Author Page: www.peterjblake.com
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour, Okoth's War and Callindrill
I actually had more or less the same plan as you about mixing in the 4 mini-dungeons in Chapter 2. I think that worked pretty well for me, as it was a bit more exciting and gave some opportunities to mix in some plot stuff.
I don't really keep particularly detailed session notes so haven't ever bothered to publish them anywhere, but this is a rough outline of what has happened so far;
Sounds great! I always like to hear how others campaigns are going, as I said. I'm really looking forward to running this.
Any general advice on pitfalls you've hit?
(sorry if this has gone way off topic but hey)
My Author Page: www.peterjblake.com
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour, Okoth's War and Callindrill
If you are using a VTT or tracking movement on the map, I've found many of the maps in the module to not be particularly good. Most of them are not 5ft per square, so I've had to do a bit of work on basically all of them. Some are worse than others though, I've had to completely redesign Blingdenstone into a more traditional dungeon crawl in order for it to not be incredibly confusing on the VTT - so it's now Level 1, Outer Fortifications; Level 2, Settlement; Level 3, Goldwhisker Warrens; Level 4, Rockblight; Level 5, Pudding Court. I have put in plenty of shortcuts based on skill checks/sneaking to keep some of the ability to pick and choose what the party is going to do. If you are doing Theatre of the Mind, this shouldn't be a problem though.
More generally though, I think that the escape from the underdark has the potential to leave the players confused about what is going on, especially if they don't know much about the underdark outside of the game and/or they choose not to visit many of the locations in the underdark before leaving the first time. I'd definitely recommend tying in some of the mini-dungeons more strongly to the overall plot of the Demon Princes being brought forth, or having them find one of the major locations by accident (Sloobludop, Gracklstugh, or Neverlight Grove) - especially if it looks like your party is going to head straight for Blingdenstone.
Just kicked this off this week and in the first ten minutes, the elf fighter in my party tossed Ront over a rope bridge and down into the spiders, resulting in one munched orc. Ilvara was away chasing down some escaped goblin slaves when it happened (foreshadowing her obsession with chasing down escaped slaves so the PCs expect to be chased when they escape). She's now back and is about to make a painful example of the elf - teaching Asha how to most effectively use the Ray of Sickness by demonstrating it, repeatedly, on the elf. Next session is this evening so I am looking forward to that.
One thing I am considering is that happens after the campaign. Have you had a think about that? I know it's a long way off but I was wondering if there is any potential for trips into the Abyss to face Lloth, or if that is simply going too far...?
My Author Page: www.peterjblake.com
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour, Okoth's War and Callindrill
Sounds like you are off to a good start!
Post-campaign, I think going to the Abyss is a decent shout - something I had been considering was that Lolth's schemes had upset the balance in the Blood War, and caused lots of other groups to become involved. I haven't worked out the full details yet, but I was thinking some planescape type stuff where the characters end up in Sigil, meet various factions and start participating in a wider conflict across the outer planes.