I am surprised by quite how upset I am about it. Much more so than the actual player, funnily enough. They had actually said at the beginning of the session (in character) that they didn't think they were going to survive this dungeon, which somehow just makes it all the worse.
Anyway, what next for the player? They are a three player group, with four characters, so theoretically they could just take over the extraneous character. They are in the middle of Wave Echo Cave, and I've introduced a time crunch, so the remaining party can't just leave the cave and come back with a new fourth.
Do I have the player roll up a new character and shoehorn them in somehow? Like the remaining party finds them chained up in the cave somewhere or something?
First of all... I know we always feel bad when a PC is killed. Nobody likes killing PCs, but sometimes it happens. You have nothing to actually feel bad about as long as you did everything as fairly as you could and you did not do something to deliberately kill a PC for some unpleasant reason like spite. Obviously since you feel bad you did not do this.
In terms of what is next... talk with the player. If they want to take over the extra character, go for it. That's probably easiest.
If they want to make up a new PC, then you will need to shoehorn them in. Finding them chained up in the next room, prisoner of the goblins (or what have you) can work quite well. Make sure to have enough equipment for them to get started somewhere nearby.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
A captured prisoner or slave in the dungeon os almost a classic, even more so if time pressures keep the party there. A thing to think of is even if the new PC is a prisoner they may know clues about that close area and rumors overheard. You Can reward a player who has been cooperative with the PC change over, by knowing the location of a map, or key, or the location of the garrison's hidden strongbox. armory or healers room.. Possibly let them have a motivation to save another from the Durance Vile. BUT Limit the Range of what they know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
Decision is that the player is going to roll up a dragonborn paladin. The paladin was questing after the forge of spells with another party of four, when the party was wiped out by the black spider, with the paladin barely escaping with their lives. Party will find them unconscious, but stable, with equipment. I'll add a stash of healing potions nearby to offset the potions the party will need to use to bring the paladin back to fighting shape.
They are dealing with survivor's guilt, and this will allow them to bond rapidly to their new team mates - vowing to never again fail to protect those they love. Or maybe it will drive them to initially remain distant - never wanting to feel the hurt of that loss again. Or something else - I've told the player that's for them to decide.
Short term motivation is obviously avenging the death of their first party. Player has (thankfully) given the character quite a happy back story - parents were good people and are still alive! - and is this is the first real tragedy they have endured. They've come up with minor character details for their deceased party (and if you think I'm not going to describe their corpses at the feet of the black spider...) All that's left is to flesh out the long term goals for the character. I'm super impressed with how quickly they're putting meat on the bones of the new character, and I think they're going to end with something they are way happier with than their previous pre-generated character.
I'll give them a little knowledge the black spider's tactics, to reflect having lived through an encounter already.
Killing a PC isn't easy. The last one I killed was...it was permadeath. They were 3rd-level and split up to investigate a campsite. A group of three ankhegs ambushed the wizard, and the fighter dashed in to save him. Everyone else did what they could at range, but the fighter lost his life in the process. He was grappled, so he couldn't escape, and it tried to drag him underground as it retreated. Some suffocation and a critical hit later and he lost his head to what is basically a giant, acid-spitting praying mantis.
But that was DoIP, and you're playing LMoP. Am I right to assume nobody found the spell scroll of revivify in Cragmaw Castle? Can no one read and use it, if they did?
There are plenty of bugbears in the cave, in the Black Spider's employ. One of them could always turn on him and side with the players. That could be their 4th man, if that's what they want to do.
Depending on the nature of the time pressure (I haven't read or played LMoP), they might just retreat anyway and suffer the consequences of missing that time pressure. To keep the PC-less player entertained, you can have them run some of the monsters.
But that was DoIP, and you're playing LMoP. Am I right to assume nobody found the spell scroll of revivify in Cragmaw Castle? Can no one read and use it, if they did?
Sadly, they did not. Thankfully, the player is actually really excited to have the chance to customize a character, so I'm running with it. We were originally running pre-gen characters as a way to jump straight into the game without getting overwhelmed by any more rules than necessary.
I killed my first PC a few months ago. I felt bad but it was the culmination of a series of poor decisions. In the end I had the conversation and said: do you want to be dead or continue on and try to work something in. He chose death as he understood this is a game that has consequences. I think in the end I felt worse than the player did... and I didn't even do anything.
If your player is still open to other options, remember that there is a sneaky Doppelganger working for the Black Spider in the cave. Maybe this Doppelganger came to know of the PC death...maybe this Doppelganger shapechanges into the PC and reappears to the party, claiming that they survived due to some miracle or whatnot (mysterious cave magic? mysterious figure revived them? some other lie?)...maybe your player can control this Doppelganger now for the remainder of the cave and then turn against the party when the time is right.
This option is more feasible if you're running a contained adventure that will end after the party deals with Black Spider, since it appears that you are a handful of sessions away from the end (big coincidence because so am I with my party). Then again, if you plan to continue their story past WEC and Level 5, the player could have their new character join the party in less strenuous circumstances (e.g. in Stonehill Inn) or maybe more strenuous circumstances (Phandalin is under attack from Venomfang).
Do I have the player roll up a new character and shoehorn them in somehow? Like the remaining party finds them chained up in the cave somewhere or something?
Help!
This depends on how your players want your game to be. Lifelike so little or no chance of a replacement with out leaving the dungeon. OR game like. The Chaos Fog drops the new pc into the group. Or they are found chained up. I generally go with the chaos fog. But I could never be sure of which gamers would show up for the session.
If your player is still open to other options, remember that there is a sneaky Doppelganger working for the Black Spider in the cave. Maybe this Doppelganger came to know of the PC death...maybe this Doppelganger shapechanges into the PC and reappears to the party, claiming that they survived due to some miracle or whatnot (mysterious cave magic? mysterious figure revived them? some other lie?)...maybe your player can control this Doppelganger now for the remainder of the cave and then turn against the party when the time is right.
This option is more feasible if you're running a contained adventure that will end after the party deals with Black Spider, since it appears that you are a handful of sessions away from the end (big coincidence because so am I with my party). Then again, if you plan to continue their story past WEC and Level 5, the player could have their new character join the party in less strenuous circumstances (e.g. in Stonehill Inn) or maybe more strenuous circumstances (Phandalin is under attack from Venomfang).
I love the idea of a faux-resurrection of the character as a doppelganger, and I had considered controlling them myself but decided against it because just the meta aspect of them becoming an NPC would probably arise suspicions. I hadn't thought of giving the doppelganger to the player - that would be amazing in the right hands. Unfortunately I don't think this player could handle the role play aspect, and I'm fairly confident it would not be a good experience for them - they would not enjoy the suspicions of the rest of the party. Player is my 14yo kid, so I'm fairly confident I know them well enough to make that call ;)
Ultimately we rolled a new character, and the party found them bloodied and battered, on the verge of unconsciousness, their arm reaching out to a satchel containing sufficient health potions to bring them to full hit points (in this instance, at least, I didn't their introduction to cause tension over whether to use health potions to heal them.) They were fully equipped, and had just escaped Nezznar with their lives after the rest of their party was wiped out. They had a small amount of tactical knowledge of the fight, and knowledge of the most direct route to his staging area.
They had a particularly brutal fight with an action-oriented Nezznar and his spider minions. One character was twice knocked unconscious, and another character was 1 failed saving throw from death. They were frequently restrained in webbing. Nezznar used suggestion to convince the rogue he was cold, and the webbing looked like a nice, warm, snug blanket he should wrap himself up in. At one point, the entire party found themselves restrained. With his dying words, Nezznar beseeched Lolth to save her humble servant, but she was not amused by his failure. His corpse disappeared, taken by Lolth for conversion to a drider - to appear at a future time when the encounter makes sense.
I had warned them before entering WEC that the adventure's training wheels were off, and they were really gonna have to work for their win. They definitely feel like they earned their victory last night! They haven't even met Mormesk or the Spectator yet, though the flameskull did them some serious damage - the dead PC's final heroic action before being knocked unconscious was to turn undead and save the party from what could have been a TPK.
You can also have them cross paths with the party as part of a different group that is going through the area? Maybe their group started with 4 and the new PC is the last one alive.
I once had a player materialize in front of the party, they where escaping from someone and had triggered a teleportation device. There was a whole backstory about how they ended up on that device, they had used it incorrectly and it spat the out in the dungeon with the party mid combat.
I once had a player materialize in front of the party, they where escaping from someone and had triggered a teleportation device. There was a whole backstory about how they ended up on that device, they had used it incorrectly and it spat the out in the dungeon with the party mid combat.
I love that, and shall be shamelessly stealing it to introduce the next new PC.
I am surprised by quite how upset I am about it. Much more so than the actual player, funnily enough. They had actually said at the beginning of the session (in character) that they didn't think they were going to survive this dungeon, which somehow just makes it all the worse.
Anyway, what next for the player? They are a three player group, with four characters, so theoretically they could just take over the extraneous character. They are in the middle of Wave Echo Cave, and I've introduced a time crunch, so the remaining party can't just leave the cave and come back with a new fourth.
Do I have the player roll up a new character and shoehorn them in somehow? Like the remaining party finds them chained up in the cave somewhere or something?
Help!
First of all... I know we always feel bad when a PC is killed. Nobody likes killing PCs, but sometimes it happens. You have nothing to actually feel bad about as long as you did everything as fairly as you could and you did not do something to deliberately kill a PC for some unpleasant reason like spite. Obviously since you feel bad you did not do this.
In terms of what is next... talk with the player. If they want to take over the extra character, go for it. That's probably easiest.
If they want to make up a new PC, then you will need to shoehorn them in. Finding them chained up in the next room, prisoner of the goblins (or what have you) can work quite well. Make sure to have enough equipment for them to get started somewhere nearby.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
A captured prisoner or slave in the dungeon os almost a classic, even more so if time pressures keep the party there.
A thing to think of is even if the new PC is a prisoner they may know clues about that close area and rumors overheard.
You Can reward a player who has been cooperative with the PC change over, by knowing the location of a map, or key, or the location of the garrison's hidden strongbox. armory or healers room..
Possibly let them have a motivation to save another from the Durance Vile.
BUT Limit the Range of what they know.
Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
Thanks guys, really valuable stuff.
Decision is that the player is going to roll up a dragonborn paladin. The paladin was questing after the forge of spells with another party of four, when the party was wiped out by the black spider, with the paladin barely escaping with their lives. Party will find them unconscious, but stable, with equipment. I'll add a stash of healing potions nearby to offset the potions the party will need to use to bring the paladin back to fighting shape.
They are dealing with survivor's guilt, and this will allow them to bond rapidly to their new team mates - vowing to never again fail to protect those they love. Or maybe it will drive them to initially remain distant - never wanting to feel the hurt of that loss again. Or something else - I've told the player that's for them to decide.
Short term motivation is obviously avenging the death of their first party. Player has (thankfully) given the character quite a happy back story - parents were good people and are still alive! - and is this is the first real tragedy they have endured. They've come up with minor character details for their deceased party (and if you think I'm not going to describe their corpses at the feet of the black spider...) All that's left is to flesh out the long term goals for the character. I'm super impressed with how quickly they're putting meat on the bones of the new character, and I think they're going to end with something they are way happier with than their previous pre-generated character.
I'll give them a little knowledge the black spider's tactics, to reflect having lived through an encounter already.
Killing a PC isn't easy. The last one I killed was...it was permadeath. They were 3rd-level and split up to investigate a campsite. A group of three ankhegs ambushed the wizard, and the fighter dashed in to save him. Everyone else did what they could at range, but the fighter lost his life in the process. He was grappled, so he couldn't escape, and it tried to drag him underground as it retreated. Some suffocation and a critical hit later and he lost his head to what is basically a giant, acid-spitting praying mantis.
But that was DoIP, and you're playing LMoP. Am I right to assume nobody found the spell scroll of revivify in Cragmaw Castle? Can no one read and use it, if they did?
There are plenty of bugbears in the cave, in the Black Spider's employ. One of them could always turn on him and side with the players. That could be their 4th man, if that's what they want to do.
Depending on the nature of the time pressure (I haven't read or played LMoP), they might just retreat anyway and suffer the consequences of missing that time pressure. To keep the PC-less player entertained, you can have them run some of the monsters.
Sadly, they did not. Thankfully, the player is actually really excited to have the chance to customize a character, so I'm running with it. We were originally running pre-gen characters as a way to jump straight into the game without getting overwhelmed by any more rules than necessary.
I killed my first PC a few months ago. I felt bad but it was the culmination of a series of poor decisions. In the end I had the conversation and said: do you want to be dead or continue on and try to work something in. He chose death as he understood this is a game that has consequences. I think in the end I felt worse than the player did... and I didn't even do anything.
If your player is still open to other options, remember that there is a sneaky Doppelganger working for the Black Spider in the cave. Maybe this Doppelganger came to know of the PC death...maybe this Doppelganger shapechanges into the PC and reappears to the party, claiming that they survived due to some miracle or whatnot (mysterious cave magic? mysterious figure revived them? some other lie?)...maybe your player can control this Doppelganger now for the remainder of the cave and then turn against the party when the time is right.
This option is more feasible if you're running a contained adventure that will end after the party deals with Black Spider, since it appears that you are a handful of sessions away from the end (big coincidence because so am I with my party). Then again, if you plan to continue their story past WEC and Level 5, the player could have their new character join the party in less strenuous circumstances (e.g. in Stonehill Inn) or maybe more strenuous circumstances (Phandalin is under attack from Venomfang).
This depends on how your players want your game to be. Lifelike so little or no chance of a replacement with out leaving the dungeon. OR game like. The Chaos Fog drops the new pc into the group. Or they are found chained up. I generally go with the chaos fog. But I could never be sure of which gamers would show up for the session.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
I love the idea of a faux-resurrection of the character as a doppelganger, and I had considered controlling them myself but decided against it because just the meta aspect of them becoming an NPC would probably arise suspicions. I hadn't thought of giving the doppelganger to the player - that would be amazing in the right hands. Unfortunately I don't think this player could handle the role play aspect, and I'm fairly confident it would not be a good experience for them - they would not enjoy the suspicions of the rest of the party. Player is my 14yo kid, so I'm fairly confident I know them well enough to make that call ;)
Ultimately we rolled a new character, and the party found them bloodied and battered, on the verge of unconsciousness, their arm reaching out to a satchel containing sufficient health potions to bring them to full hit points (in this instance, at least, I didn't their introduction to cause tension over whether to use health potions to heal them.) They were fully equipped, and had just escaped Nezznar with their lives after the rest of their party was wiped out. They had a small amount of tactical knowledge of the fight, and knowledge of the most direct route to his staging area.
They had a particularly brutal fight with an action-oriented Nezznar and his spider minions. One character was twice knocked unconscious, and another character was 1 failed saving throw from death. They were frequently restrained in webbing. Nezznar used suggestion to convince the rogue he was cold, and the webbing looked like a nice, warm, snug blanket he should wrap himself up in. At one point, the entire party found themselves restrained. With his dying words, Nezznar beseeched Lolth to save her humble servant, but she was not amused by his failure. His corpse disappeared, taken by Lolth for conversion to a drider - to appear at a future time when the encounter makes sense.
I had warned them before entering WEC that the adventure's training wheels were off, and they were really gonna have to work for their win. They definitely feel like they earned their victory last night! They haven't even met Mormesk or the Spectator yet, though the flameskull did them some serious damage - the dead PC's final heroic action before being knocked unconscious was to turn undead and save the party from what could have been a TPK.
You can also have them cross paths with the party as part of a different group that is going through the area? Maybe their group started with 4 and the new PC is the last one alive.
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I once had a player materialize in front of the party, they where escaping from someone and had triggered a teleportation device. There was a whole backstory about how they ended up on that device, they had used it incorrectly and it spat the out in the dungeon with the party mid combat.
I love that, and shall be shamelessly stealing it to introduce the next new PC.
To steal a phrase about writing and repackage it for DMing, "Good DMs borrow from other DMs; great DMs steal from them outright." ;)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.