Everything is set, the loaction, the target (the zanthian cube), the security and the getaway. HOWEVER! i need your help and advice with my secret missions...
I want to give a charred tea stained note to each player. On it, it will state "steal the cube for yourself" so everyone is secret trying to screw each other over. Does anyone have any experience on this or if it would even work?
It's unclear to me if this is supposed to be an instruction from a DM or an NPC. I think you need to flesh this out a little, and give each of the PCs some motivation for betraying their compatriots. Notably, each PC needs to believe that they are the only one that has been approached in this way.
Thanks for the reply, sorry I should of been clearer.
My plan is for the note to be delivered from the head of the guild that each player is a member of. My concern is that they will try to steal the cube halfway through the campaign, ending it sooner.
I also forgot to mention in my excitment that this is a one shot!
To elaborate - as a player, I'd be a bit confused if I wasn't an evil character. Why would I do this?
Most parties consist of good or neutral PCs. If I'm a neutral good character, what would cause me to act in what is at a superficial level an evil act (neutral at best). Even if I'm pure neutral and acting from self-interest, it would put me somewhat at odds with the choice I've made to be part of this band. There needs to be something that is overriding loyalty to the party.
Also, what's your end game? Why on Earth do you want all of them trying to steal it for themselves. As the DM, you need your party to want to be together. Most DMs sign and roll their eyes when people bring characters to the table that resist any sort of group cohesion because they want to be a moody lone wolf - it just brings the table down when all other players have to expend excess energy to bring them into the fold. You're trying to push them into a position where no one trusts anyone else, and which would reasonably result in the ostracization of the player that actually succeeds.
What you need is a higher motivation for just one character to steal the item for themselves. Something that for whatever reason they don't feel they can tell the group, but that will ultimately be viewed sympathetically by the others when it comes out. Then either -
1. The 'traitor' succeeds, the party finds out, and they find a way to solve both problems (presumably they are stealing this thing in service of a larger arc), or 2. The 'traitor' fails, then roll plays extreme dejection, depression, because now xyz is going to die or whatever, and the players find a way to solve both problems.
Thanks for the reply, sorry I should of been clearer.
My plan is for the note to be delivered from the head of the guild that each player is a member of. My concern is that they will try to steal the cube halfway through the campaign, ending it sooner.
I also forgot to mention in my excitment that this is a one shot!
Ah, that makes more sense. So this is a 'no honor among thieves' type situation. They think they are working as a group, but there will actually only be one winner. I'd make the note 'when the time is right, betray the group and bring the cube direct to the guild' instead of 'for yourself'. I'm not sure how well it will work, because if they know they are in competing guilds they will likely all rapidly figure out that they've all been given the same instruction. It could devolve rapidly into chaos if there is zero trust from the start.
thats a good idea thanks, i think i'll give one person the "steal the cube" mission. I could give someone else a "destroy the cube" mission as they see evil in the ill-gotten riches from theft.
The other two will be tricky to line up, do you have any ideas?
I think I'd still make it just one or two (cooperating) characters that have been tasked with betrayal. Then scatter around some clues that there is a traitor in their midst. Traitor games work best when it's team vs traitor, rather than everyone's a traitor.
Team's win condition is to find and expel the traitor, traitors' objective is to make away with the McGuffin.
So you would have the secret mission to the party as, "there is a traitor amongst you" and one note a player to say "you must destroy the McGuffin because of X"?
thats a good idea thanks, i think i'll give one person the "steal the cube" mission. I could give someone else a "destroy the cube" mission as they see evil in the ill-gotten riches from theft.
The other two will be tricky to line up, do you have any ideas?
Thank you so much!
Destroying the cube because they see evil in ill-gotten gains from theft doesn't make a great deal of sense - why then steal it in the first place? Why didn't they just alert the authorities and/or rightful owner of the theft attempt?
Some possible individual motivations would be -
1. Destroying the artifact because they consider it inherently evil. 2. Keeping the artifact for themselves for personal power/glory. 3. Keeping the artifact for themselves for monetary gain. 4. Keeping the artifact for themselves because they believe they can harness its power for good. 5. Claiming the artifact in the name of a higher power.
However I'd really stick with making it a standard traitor game. There are rules available on DMs Guild for running Among Us in the D&D 'engine' that you could probably repurpose -
Good point, the simple choice is to steal the artifact for "monetary gain" for the thieves guild member. The others can then pursuade the thief, when/if they discover the motive. ill let you know how it goes if you are interested!
So you would have the secret mission to the party as, "there is a traitor amongst you" and one note a player to say "you must destroy the McGuffin because of X"?
Depending on how smart you think your players are, you could go the 'there is a traitor amongst you' route, or you could leave clues to the fact that there is a traitor, or you could even leave it up to the players to notice the traitor. Problem could be that if the actual treachery isn't necessary until after they've stolen the McGuffin, it could be very difficult to root out the traitor because it would be easy to act cooperatively right up until the last moment. The traitor needs to understand that they'll have to have the McGuffin in their hands and be free of the other players for multiple turns - i.e. they need to manipulate the rest of the group into inconvenient situations. Absent the opportunity to identify treacherous behavior, the rest of the team doesn't stand a chance.
I'm getting a bit out of my depth myself now, to be honest. This could be a really tricky game to run.
One thing I have decided for my games if I ever want to run a "traitor in our midst" sort of game is that if one player gets a note, every player gets a note. This might mean that you give some players a seemingly important yet ultimately irrelevant detail ("the cube is said to be the plaything of god X") which they might think is a crucial piece of info to file away whilst another player is getting a note saying "the cube must not fall into the hands of the guild - prevent the heist from succeeding, but don't get caught". This way you stand no risk of the players seeing you pass secret notes, and the players will assume that everyone is getting some sort of information to do with the mystery of the cube, and instead someone is getting instructions.
You can also do this if the players roll for perception - "can I get a perception check", followed by giving out 4 pre-written notes to the 4 normal players and a new instruction to the 5th player. The pre-written notes might offer "you see nothing", "you see a pressure plate", "you see a tripwire at the end of the room". The 5th player might get "you see a tripwire in the next doorway. Your patron demands that you bring them the cube". The different font or style tells them to not tell the other players of this. They have info to offer so don't seem suspect for keep getting notes which say "nothing".
100% though, you need to offer this as a choice for players - being told they are a traitor is the opposite of dnd's roleplaying basis - they should be offered temptation to do so ("bring the cube to this address and tell no-one or your family dies", or "your patron commands you to destroy the cube", etc.) but the choice must be theirs, and you have to have consequences for their refusal or cooperation lined up accordingly. Perhaps they decide to tell the party and formulate a plan to deliver the cube as promised, then steal it back again, allowing them to fulfil both contract - perfectly acceptable.
bring the cube to this address and tell no-one or your family dies! This is sick, I will definately be using that one!
I agree with the free will side of things. i once had a guy trying to have sex with anyone he could find in the tavern, he rolled a 2 and ended up with the half ogre stable girl.
She ended up with child and he lost 10% of his gold as alimony. Later on I brought the child back as part of a ritual sacrifice, the player didnt even care and let him die so he could stop making payments, some people!!!
Hi Guys,
Running my first heist tommorrow!
Everything is set, the loaction, the target (the zanthian cube), the security and the getaway. HOWEVER! i need your help and advice with my secret missions...
I want to give a charred tea stained note to each player. On it, it will state "steal the cube for yourself" so everyone is secret trying to screw each other over. Does anyone have any experience on this or if it would even work?
Thanks,
It's unclear to me if this is supposed to be an instruction from a DM or an NPC. I think you need to flesh this out a little, and give each of the PCs some motivation for betraying their compatriots. Notably, each PC needs to believe that they are the only one that has been approached in this way.
Thanks for the reply, sorry I should of been clearer.
My plan is for the note to be delivered from the head of the guild that each player is a member of. My concern is that they will try to steal the cube halfway through the campaign, ending it sooner.
I also forgot to mention in my excitment that this is a one shot!
To elaborate - as a player, I'd be a bit confused if I wasn't an evil character. Why would I do this?
Most parties consist of good or neutral PCs. If I'm a neutral good character, what would cause me to act in what is at a superficial level an evil act (neutral at best). Even if I'm pure neutral and acting from self-interest, it would put me somewhat at odds with the choice I've made to be part of this band. There needs to be something that is overriding loyalty to the party.
Also, what's your end game? Why on Earth do you want all of them trying to steal it for themselves. As the DM, you need your party to want to be together. Most DMs sign and roll their eyes when people bring characters to the table that resist any sort of group cohesion because they want to be a moody lone wolf - it just brings the table down when all other players have to expend excess energy to bring them into the fold. You're trying to push them into a position where no one trusts anyone else, and which would reasonably result in the ostracization of the player that actually succeeds.
What you need is a higher motivation for just one character to steal the item for themselves. Something that for whatever reason they don't feel they can tell the group, but that will ultimately be viewed sympathetically by the others when it comes out. Then either -
1. The 'traitor' succeeds, the party finds out, and they find a way to solve both problems (presumably they are stealing this thing in service of a larger arc), or
2. The 'traitor' fails, then roll plays extreme dejection, depression, because now xyz is going to die or whatever, and the players find a way to solve both problems.
Ah, that makes more sense. So this is a 'no honor among thieves' type situation. They think they are working as a group, but there will actually only be one winner. I'd make the note 'when the time is right, betray the group and bring the cube direct to the guild' instead of 'for yourself'. I'm not sure how well it will work, because if they know they are in competing guilds they will likely all rapidly figure out that they've all been given the same instruction. It could devolve rapidly into chaos if there is zero trust from the start.
thats a good idea thanks, i think i'll give one person the "steal the cube" mission. I could give someone else a "destroy the cube" mission as they see evil in the ill-gotten riches from theft.
The other two will be tricky to line up, do you have any ideas?
Thank you so much!
I think I'd still make it just one or two (cooperating) characters that have been tasked with betrayal. Then scatter around some clues that there is a traitor in their midst. Traitor games work best when it's team vs traitor, rather than everyone's a traitor.
Team's win condition is to find and expel the traitor, traitors' objective is to make away with the McGuffin.
So you would have the secret mission to the party as, "there is a traitor amongst you" and one note a player to say "you must destroy the McGuffin because of X"?
Destroying the cube because they see evil in ill-gotten gains from theft doesn't make a great deal of sense - why then steal it in the first place? Why didn't they just alert the authorities and/or rightful owner of the theft attempt?
Some possible individual motivations would be -
1. Destroying the artifact because they consider it inherently evil.
2. Keeping the artifact for themselves for personal power/glory.
3. Keeping the artifact for themselves for monetary gain.
4. Keeping the artifact for themselves because they believe they can harness its power for good.
5. Claiming the artifact in the name of a higher power.
However I'd really stick with making it a standard traitor game. There are rules available on DMs Guild for running Among Us in the D&D 'engine' that you could probably repurpose -
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/338862/Amongst-Thou
Good point, the simple choice is to steal the artifact for "monetary gain" for the thieves guild member. The others can then pursuade the thief, when/if they discover the motive. ill let you know how it goes if you are interested!
Depending on how smart you think your players are, you could go the 'there is a traitor amongst you' route, or you could leave clues to the fact that there is a traitor, or you could even leave it up to the players to notice the traitor. Problem could be that if the actual treachery isn't necessary until after they've stolen the McGuffin, it could be very difficult to root out the traitor because it would be easy to act cooperatively right up until the last moment. The traitor needs to understand that they'll have to have the McGuffin in their hands and be free of the other players for multiple turns - i.e. they need to manipulate the rest of the group into inconvenient situations. Absent the opportunity to identify treacherous behavior, the rest of the team doesn't stand a chance.
I'm getting a bit out of my depth myself now, to be honest. This could be a really tricky game to run.
I 100% want to know how it goes, however you choose to run it. All the best!
One thing I have decided for my games if I ever want to run a "traitor in our midst" sort of game is that if one player gets a note, every player gets a note. This might mean that you give some players a seemingly important yet ultimately irrelevant detail ("the cube is said to be the plaything of god X") which they might think is a crucial piece of info to file away whilst another player is getting a note saying "the cube must not fall into the hands of the guild - prevent the heist from succeeding, but don't get caught". This way you stand no risk of the players seeing you pass secret notes, and the players will assume that everyone is getting some sort of information to do with the mystery of the cube, and instead someone is getting instructions.
You can also do this if the players roll for perception - "can I get a perception check", followed by giving out 4 pre-written notes to the 4 normal players and a new instruction to the 5th player. The pre-written notes might offer "you see nothing", "you see a pressure plate", "you see a tripwire at the end of the room". The 5th player might get "you see a tripwire in the next doorway. Your patron demands that you bring them the cube". The different font or style tells them to not tell the other players of this. They have info to offer so don't seem suspect for keep getting notes which say "nothing".
100% though, you need to offer this as a choice for players - being told they are a traitor is the opposite of dnd's roleplaying basis - they should be offered temptation to do so ("bring the cube to this address and tell no-one or your family dies", or "your patron commands you to destroy the cube", etc.) but the choice must be theirs, and you have to have consequences for their refusal or cooperation lined up accordingly. Perhaps they decide to tell the party and formulate a plan to deliver the cube as promised, then steal it back again, allowing them to fulfil both contract - perfectly acceptable.
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bring the cube to this address and tell no-one or your family dies! This is sick, I will definately be using that one!
I agree with the free will side of things. i once had a guy trying to have sex with anyone he could find in the tavern, he rolled a 2 and ended up with the half ogre stable girl.
She ended up with child and he lost 10% of his gold as alimony. Later on I brought the child back as part of a ritual sacrifice, the player didnt even care and let him die so he could stop making payments, some people!!!
This is the best idea for the traitor. It solves the problem of the traitor just waiting until the heist is done, grabbing the cube, and legging it.