So, I was inspired recently to start thinking of how to make a water element based monk more specialized to the element of water compared to the hodgepodge of elements that the regular way of the four elements monk is. Looking at other classes dealing with water and coasts, I realized that when people largely talk use water powers, they pretty much only use the freezing elements of water or lighting compared to things like water pressure or tidal force. So, Inspired by Avatar and other media (Hydroid from warframe, idoneth Deepkin from GW, Aquaman / Mera) I wanted to create something that feels more attuned to water compared to ice.
Because I really like the monk class in general, I wanted to try and fit this in that class compared to a sorcerer or fighter. I feel it fits the most, as there is already a precedent for elemental attacks from a monk, and he’s a good close combat fighter as is. Drawing inspiration from SpiketailDrake's Way of the four element's remastered I decided to try and see If we can come up with something similar, but more focused.
Here are some ideas for abilities I had, but I have no clue which levels they would fit into aside from a few abilities, so let's start with a few at first, adding as we go. Do keep in mind this really is my second homebrew attempt, and with finals coming up I may get distracted, but for now I would like to share this and get the ball rolling.
3rd level: Aqua Alignment: Devoting yourself to the study of water, you have learned how to exert a measure of control over it. You learn the cantrip Shape Water, as well as gaining the ability to cast create or destroy water at the cost of 1 ki point, or as during a meditation of at least 10 minutes.
You do not need to have water surrounding you to cast any ability using this subclass.
3rd level, Aqua Hammer: You use your mastery over water to strike enemies with the force of the deep using the power of concentrated pressure. By spending a bonus action, you may manifest water to your hands which then acts as a monk weapon for the purposes of martial arts. This weapon disappears when you dismiss it, finish a rest, or when you fall unconscious. You may spend Ki to keep this weapon going, and the properties of this new weapon depend on how much ki you use to summon it.
The properties of such weapons are dependent on ki spent, and are as follows:
No Ki points: Melee 1d8 force light, thrown (15/40 feet), Returns to you after you throw it.
1 Ki Point: Melee, 1d10 force, force
2 Ki points: Melee, 1d10 force,, reach
3 Ki points: Melee, 2d6, force
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3rd Level; Shoal of the Shore: you summon water to defend you from a powerful attack. You may cast Shield by spending 1 ki point.
? Level: Water Pressure Bomb: You summon water to your hand, and cast it at the enemy imbued with power of the ocean’s greatest depths. Spending 1 ki point as an action, your target makes a dexterity save, taking 2d8 force damage on a failed save and half as much on a successful one.
(Open to tweaking or a rework. I want to do something with pressure, but have no clue how to really work it in. The crushing depths of the sea is no joke, and trying to work it into an attack would be awesome without it being a reflavored s)
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6 level?: Surging Sprint: Summoning a wave behind you, you surge forward with a force strong enough to knock creatures from their feet and carry them with you. You must spend 2 ki points as an action in order to use this attack. You Move forward in a 30ft line, ending early if you hit a wall or a heavy object. Each creature within ten feet of the line takes 3d8 bludgening damage and must make a strength check. On a failed save the creature is pushed with you until you stop your movement and is knocked prone.
(Not gonna lie, writing this is messy. I want it to emulate the tidal surge from Hydroid in warframe, dashing forward and dealing damage as it passes over everyone, and carrying them with it / flinging them forward at the end of the attack. This is one of the ones I really want to include, so any help fixing this would be perfect.)
Man, not a lot interested in this, but I'll persist.
So for level 3 I'm thinking the monk will get the water hammer abilitie for offense at risk of frontloading the class. Water Hammer because It is a cool offensive ability and shoal because it's a nice defensive move in line with defensive techniques. The limit on both especially at low levels is Ki, and they make you want to use unarmed striking for it, giving a boost at early levels for the lackluster martial arts die. I don't think it's any crazier than using a greatsword at level 3 with action surge and a bunch of maneuver dice, but I will need feedback on this.
So, Since I didn't get feedback I would like to cement water hammer as a choice for a 3rd level ability with the shield ability, or get rid of the cloak all together until it becomes relevant later on, probably at level 6.
Looking at the features you want to put into this subclass, it seems like a way of the four elements monk but with access to different abilities. Each of the features you propose can easily be made into abilities with different level prerequisites for the four elements to gain the effect you are looking for. I don't believe there is a way to homebrew down to that level on Beyond, which is why I imagine you would want to create a new subclass.
There are a lot of things you have that don't have a specific level for that feature. I think you should break down where you want those abilities to go. Spending a reaction with a ki point to do a shield like effect is good and would need to be at the 3rd or 6th level spots, but I think Water Hammer is too strong to have period. It scales with your modifier at later levels and with flurry of blows starts adding up to 20 damage every round. The difference between that and a greatsword wielding fighter with action surge is that the fighter does that for 1 round, while spending 2 ki points give you those benefits for 10 rounds that is a flat increase from your modifier and not up to the dice.
Looking at the features you want to put into this subclass, it seems like a way of the four elements monk but with access to different abilities. Each of the features you propose can easily be made into abilities with different level prerequisites for the four elements to gain the effect you are looking for. I don't believe there is a way to homebrew down to that level on Beyond, which is why I imagine you would want to create a new subclass.
There are a lot of things you have that don't have a specific level for that feature. I think you should break down where you want those abilities to go. Spending a reaction with a ki point to do a shield like effect is good and would need to be at the 3rd or 6th level spots, but I think Water Hammer is too strong to have period. It scales with your modifier at later levels and with flurry of blows starts adding up to 20 damage every round. The difference between that and a greatsword wielding fighter with action surge is that the fighter does that for 1 round, while spending 2 ki points give you those benefits for 10 rounds that is a flat increase from your modifier and not up to the dice.
Yea, the way of four elements is exactly what I want to try and do, but focused down to one element and have it be focused on the effects of water beyond cold damage. I know beyond doesn't really give a way to fix things like this, but it would be fun to try anyways, as I really like water based abilities.
that's valuable info for the water hammer ability though. How would you tweak it to still be damaging, but not too strong? My idea was to use water pressure to add to the striking power and damage (think close range water bending from avatar or mera from aquaman, or really getting knocked over by a wave) but I admit I probably didn't think it through to add two stat modifiers to damage. Should it just be two martial arts die?
that's valuable info for the water hammer ability though. How would you tweak it to still be damaging, but not too strong? My idea was to use water pressure to add to the striking power and damage (think close range water bending from avatar or mera from aquaman, or really getting knocked over by a wave) but I admit I probably didn't think it through to add two stat modifiers to damage. Should it just be two martial arts die?
It's hard to say. Monk subclasses are probably the most I've worked on and following the theme with official releases is that 3rd level features define how the monk will use ki compared to others. None add extra damage to a monks attacks, but grant other benefits with ki or through the use of flurry of blows. My initial thoughts are to tie something to flurry of blows, but then you have the same thing the Open Hand monks do. My first thought would be to have something like:
"As a bonus action, you can spend 1 ki point to make an unarmed strike that is powered by the waves. On a hit, you roll an additional damage die plus your monk level as force damage, and the target must make a Strength saving throw or be pushed back 10 feet and be knocked prone."
This would give you a separate option from your flurry of blows that would be only a single attack, but would allow more freedom with your Action to still use Dodge, Disengage, etc., and thematically have the "wave" effect with reducing potential overall damage.
It's hard to say. Monk subclasses are probably the most I've worked on and following the theme with official releases is that 3rd level features define how the monk will use ki compared to others. None add extra damage to a monks attacks, but grant other benefits with ki or through the use of flurry of blows. My initial thoughts are to tie something to flurry of blows, but then you have the same thing the Open Hand monks do. My first thought would be to have something like:
"As a bonus action, you can spend 1 ki point to make an unarmed strike that is powered by the waves. On a hit, you roll an additional damage die plus your monk level as force damage, and the target must make a Strength saving throw or be pushed back 10 feet and be knocked prone."
This would give you a separate option from your flurry of blows that would be only a single attack, but would allow more freedom with your Action to still use Dodge, Disengage, etc., and thematically have the "wave" effect with reducing potential overall damage.
Okay, that is helpful as a cool ability for 3rd level, maybe along with the shield spell ability. I like this a lot and I hope I have permission to add this to my doc for the class? and as I understand would it be unarmed strike damage + additional die + monk level damage + dex?
but I do want to emulate the scaled fist monk from paizo a little bit as well, adding some extra elemental damage to normal strikes so one can beat down the enemy with extra elemental forces, though that may be a whole different subclass. I imagine it would almost be like the blood hunter's abilities from Critical Role, but with more magical damage. I'm finding it hard to articulate what I mean so I apologize if i'm not conveying what I would like.
would something like my current water hammer strike be acceptable as a 6th level ability as spending ki for a minute of extra martial art die damage? something like 3 ki to have this affect, using up half your ki points just to have ten rounds of harder punching against monsters of the same level?
Okay, so given some time to try and fix this idea a bit more, I was thinking maybe that water hammer thing could work like a pact weapon or something, turning the water into a literal water hammer in order for the monk to strike with. in flavor the water is still formless and acts more like boxing gloves but in practice it functions as a melee weapon of your choice, and you have to spend ki on the size of the weapon or how it works?
here's how my new idea could go at level 3:
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Aqua Hammer: You use your mastery over water to strike enemies with the force of the deep using the power of concentrated pressure. By spending a bonus action, you may manifest water to your hands which then acts as a monk weapon for the purposes of martial arts. This weapon disappears when you dismiss it, finish a rest, or when you fall unconscious. You may spend Ki to keep this weapon going, and the properties of this new weapon depend on how much ki you use to summon it.
The properties of such weapons are dependent on ki spent, and are as follows:
No Ki points: Melee 1d8 force light, thrown (15/40 feet),
So the idea here is that the monk creates weapons from his element, and uses it to strike the enemy as explained above. The weapon is like any other weapon, and to use it the monk needs to either spend part of their action to create it. This also avoids the problem of having something too powerful at lower levels, as any fighting class will have access to the same weapons, and I could have the option to add special properties as the monk levels up.
Alright, so a lack of replies has been worrying, but going to continue anyways. Changing the 3rd level feature to the aqua hammer I have listed above, and will start workshopping the 6th level feature for a sort of tidal wave dash thinking of
worked up enough courage to add shoal of the shore to the 3rd level slot, but it may be a bit front loaded. I think shield could be given at 6th level too while still feeling good enough to match other subclasses. or, another way to work it is to make the aqua-hammer function as a handless shield instead of a weapon as it's used.
Thoughts?
also, trying to rework the tidal wave thing. kinda hard to word shooting forward and damaging enemies like I imagined
6th level: Surging Sprint: Summoning a wave behind you, you surge forward with a force strong enough to knock creatures from their feet and carry them with you. You must spend 2 ki points as an action in order to use this attack. You Move forward in a straight line for 30ft, ending early if you hit a wall or a heavy object. Each creature within or on 5 feet of the line to either side must make a strength check. On a failed save the creature is pushed with you until you stop your movement and is knocked prone, taking 1d8 + dex force damage per ki point spent (minimum of 2). on a successful save the target takes half damage and is not knocked prone.
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So, I was inspired recently to start thinking of how to make a water element based monk more specialized to the element of water compared to the hodgepodge of elements that the regular way of the four elements monk is. Looking at other classes dealing with water and coasts, I realized that when people largely talk use water powers, they pretty much only use the freezing elements of water or lighting compared to things like water pressure or tidal force. So, Inspired by Avatar and other media (Hydroid from warframe, idoneth Deepkin from GW, Aquaman / Mera) I wanted to create something that feels more attuned to water compared to ice.
Because I really like the monk class in general, I wanted to try and fit this in that class compared to a sorcerer or fighter. I feel it fits the most, as there is already a precedent for elemental attacks from a monk, and he’s a good close combat fighter as is. Drawing inspiration from SpiketailDrake's Way of the four element's remastered I decided to try and see If we can come up with something similar, but more focused.
Here are some ideas for abilities I had, but I have no clue which levels they would fit into aside from a few abilities, so let's start with a few at first, adding as we go. Do keep in mind this really is my second homebrew attempt, and with finals coming up I may get distracted, but for now I would like to share this and get the ball rolling.
________________________________________________________________________
3rd level: Aqua Alignment:
Devoting yourself to the study of water, you have learned how to exert a measure of control over it. You learn the cantrip Shape Water, as well as gaining the ability to cast create or destroy water at the cost of 1 ki point, or as during a meditation of at least 10 minutes.
You do not need to have water surrounding you to cast any ability using this subclass.
________________________________________________________
3rd level, Aqua Hammer: You use your mastery over water to strike enemies with the force of the deep using the power of concentrated pressure. By spending a bonus action, you may manifest water to your hands which then acts as a monk weapon for the purposes of martial arts. This weapon disappears when you dismiss it, finish a rest, or when you fall unconscious. You may spend Ki to keep this weapon going, and the properties of this new weapon depend on how much ki you use to summon it.
The properties of such weapons are dependent on ki spent, and are as follows:
No Ki points: Melee 1d8 force light, thrown (15/40 feet), Returns to you after you throw it.
1 Ki Point: Melee, 1d10 force, force
2 Ki points: Melee, 1d10 force,, reach
3 Ki points: Melee, 2d6, force
______________________________________
3rd Level; Shoal of the Shore: you summon water to defend you from a powerful attack. You may cast Shield by spending 1 ki point.
___________________________________________________
? Level: Water Pressure Bomb:
You summon water to your hand, and cast it at the enemy imbued with power of the ocean’s greatest depths. Spending 1 ki point as an action, your target makes a dexterity save, taking 2d8 force damage on a failed save and half as much on a successful one.
(Open to tweaking or a rework. I want to do something with pressure, but have no clue how to really work it in. The crushing depths of the sea is no joke, and trying to work it into an attack would be awesome without it being a reflavored s)
__________________________________________
6 level?: Surging Sprint:
Summoning a wave behind you, you surge forward with a force strong enough to knock creatures from their feet and carry them with you. You must spend 2 ki points as an action in order to use this attack. You Move forward in a 30ft line, ending early if you hit a wall or a heavy object. Each creature within ten feet of the line takes 3d8 bludgening damage and must make a strength check. On a failed save the creature is pushed with you until you stop your movement and is knocked prone.
(Not gonna lie, writing this is messy. I want it to emulate the tidal surge from Hydroid in warframe, dashing forward and dealing damage as it passes over everyone, and carrying them with it / flinging them forward at the end of the attack. This is one of the ones I really want to include, so any help fixing this would be perfect.)
Man, not a lot interested in this, but I'll persist.
So for level 3 I'm thinking the monk will get the water hammer abilitie for offense at risk of frontloading the class. Water Hammer because It is a cool offensive ability and shoal because it's a nice defensive move in line with defensive techniques. The limit on both especially at low levels is Ki, and they make you want to use unarmed striking for it, giving a boost at early levels for the lackluster martial arts die. I don't think it's any crazier than using a greatsword at level 3 with action surge and a bunch of maneuver dice, but I will need feedback on this.
So, Since I didn't get feedback I would like to cement water hammer as a choice for a 3rd level ability with the shield ability, or get rid of the cloak all together until it becomes relevant later on, probably at level 6.
Looking at the features you want to put into this subclass, it seems like a way of the four elements monk but with access to different abilities. Each of the features you propose can easily be made into abilities with different level prerequisites for the four elements to gain the effect you are looking for. I don't believe there is a way to homebrew down to that level on Beyond, which is why I imagine you would want to create a new subclass.
There are a lot of things you have that don't have a specific level for that feature. I think you should break down where you want those abilities to go. Spending a reaction with a ki point to do a shield like effect is good and would need to be at the 3rd or 6th level spots, but I think Water Hammer is too strong to have period. It scales with your modifier at later levels and with flurry of blows starts adding up to 20 damage every round. The difference between that and a greatsword wielding fighter with action surge is that the fighter does that for 1 round, while spending 2 ki points give you those benefits for 10 rounds that is a flat increase from your modifier and not up to the dice.
AdmiralChry's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all my classes, subclasses, magic items, and etc.
AdmiralChry's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all my classes, subclasses, magic items, and etc.
Okay, so given some time to try and fix this idea a bit more, I was thinking maybe that water hammer thing could work like a pact weapon or something, turning the water into a literal water hammer in order for the monk to strike with. in flavor the water is still formless and acts more like boxing gloves but in practice it functions as a melee weapon of your choice, and you have to spend ki on the size of the weapon or how it works?
here's how my new idea could go at level 3:
_____________________
Aqua Hammer: You use your mastery over water to strike enemies with the force of the deep using the power of concentrated pressure. By spending a bonus action, you may manifest water to your hands which then acts as a monk weapon for the purposes of martial arts. This weapon disappears when you dismiss it, finish a rest, or when you fall unconscious. You may spend Ki to keep this weapon going, and the properties of this new weapon depend on how much ki you use to summon it.
The properties of such weapons are dependent on ki spent, and are as follows:
No Ki points: Melee 1d8 force light, thrown (15/40 feet),
1 Ki Point: Melee, 1d10 force, force
2 Ki points: Melee, 1d10 force, two handed, reach
3 Ki points: Melee, 2d6, force
_______________________________________________________________________________
So the idea here is that the monk creates weapons from his element, and uses it to strike the enemy as explained above. The weapon is like any other weapon, and to use it the monk needs to either spend part of their action to create it. This also avoids the problem of having something too powerful at lower levels, as any fighting class will have access to the same weapons, and I could have the option to add special properties as the monk levels up.
Thoughts?
Alright, so a lack of replies has been worrying, but going to continue anyways. Changing the 3rd level feature to the aqua hammer I have listed above, and will start workshopping the 6th level feature for a sort of tidal wave dash thinking of
worked up enough courage to add shoal of the shore to the 3rd level slot, but it may be a bit front loaded. I think shield could be given at 6th level too while still feeling good enough to match other subclasses. or, another way to work it is to make the aqua-hammer function as a handless shield instead of a weapon as it's used.
Thoughts?
also, trying to rework the tidal wave thing. kinda hard to word shooting forward and damaging enemies like I imagined
Alright, reworking this tidal wave thing:
6th level: Surging Sprint:
Summoning a wave behind you, you surge forward with a force strong enough to knock creatures from their feet and carry them with you. You must spend 2 ki points as an action in order to use this attack. You Move forward in a straight line for 30ft, ending early if you hit a wall or a heavy object. Each creature within or on 5 feet of the line to either side must make a strength check. On a failed save the creature is pushed with you until you stop your movement and is knocked prone, taking 1d8 + dex force damage per ki point spent (minimum of 2). on a successful save the target takes half damage and is not knocked prone.